Objectively speaking, is Zverev the most accomplished player without a major?

[Kralingen]

Hasn't Zverev also said he won Masters too early in his career and that created more pressure on him?

Obviously he’s doesn’t go by the Billie Jean King refrain “Pressure is a privilege.”

It's funny bc I usually have tons of sympathy for the mental toll that high stakes athletics takes on a person. People talk about being genetically gifted, you also have to be mentally gifted to really block out distractions, avoid burnout, and prepare to compete at the top level consistently for years on end. Usually the mind is what lets players down before their legs or arms.

But with Zverev it all seems fake, lol. All this imagined pressure. He thinks he's the center of the universe.

He has needed a reality check since about 2017.

 

[DSH]

Best of three sets is right up his alley.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Miloslav Mecir is the best player not to win a major.

The Big Cat. Great mover, great BH (never seen anyone who could hold it as long), ome of the best inside-out BHs you’ll see, good volleyer.

****ty serve even at 6’4 height did him in as did a lack of competitive desire.

Mecir actually won a tournament (1987 Miami) that was 128 players and best of 5 sets in every round, like the majors. Not even the Australian Open had that in 1987.

Miloslav Mecir at 1987 Miami
R128: Miloslav Mecir def. Cassio Motta (6-1, 6-3, 6-0)
R64: Miloslav Mecir def. Jaime Yzaga (6-4, 6-3, 6-2)
R32: Miloslav Mecir def. Jimmy Arias (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
R16: Miloslav Mecir def. Slobodan Zivojinovic (2-6, 6-1, 6-1, 6-4)
QF: Miloslav Mecir def. Stefan Edberg (3-6, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
SF: Miloslav Mecir def. Yannick Noah (7-5, 5-1 ret.)
F: Miloslav Mecir def. Ivan Lendl (7-5, 6-2, 7-5)

Put dominant Lendl on skates in that match as he held the BH on his racket longer than anyone I’ve ever seen (Bandy comes second).

The point at 3:22 has it all and then Drysdale sums it up all nicely.

 

[ghostofMecir]

This still irks me. I can almost guarantee 0 people in the world were ever talking about him being No.1 after the Aus Open.

Hes not referring to the plebs posting here or even on social media but rather within his inner circle and around the grounds amongst the insiders. These guys are obsessed with their rankings, especially the younger you are.

Zverev is also a narcissist so who knows.

 

[mike danny]

Miloslav Mecir is the best player not to win a major.

And he did in fact win the closest thing to a major.

 

[onefineday]

His record is so strange. Lots of cool achievements but no top ten win in a slam.
Objectively speaking, OP might be right.
Subjectively speaking, very few people care because of who he is.

 

[skaj]

Murray, no ATP Finals, but:

More masters
More titles overall
Also gold medal
Higher ranking
4xmore slam finals
At least semis at all slams
Wins over higher ranked players at slams

 

[TripleATeam]

Murray, no ATP Finals, but:

More masters
More titles overall
Also gold medal
Higher ranking
4xmore slam finals
At least semis at all slams
Wins over higher ranked players at slams

You mean the guy with 3 major titles?

 

[skaj]

You mean the guy with 3 major titles?

No, a guys with 0 major titles.

 

[nadalvamos]

I know he's one of the most hated players but in terms of achievements, he's done a lot already despite never winning a slam.

Zverev has:

- An Olympic Gold Medal he'll probably never stop talking about
- 2 WTF titles
- 5 Masters titles
- 1 Slam Final where he was points away from winning
- 19 career titles
- 69% career win rate (nice)
- Top 7 player for 5 seasons straight with three being top 4

Biggest knock is he's never even cracked top 2 and he's never even beaten top 10 player at slam but not many players can match Zed in terms of achievements among slamless players

he is below anyone who also haven't won a slam but reached world #1 ranking. which is A LOT!!!

 

[D.Nalby12]

I would prefer to be worst Slam winner than best non Slam winner tbh.

 

[travlerajm]

Soderling:
7-3 vs Berdych
5-0 vs Tsonga
10-4 vs Ferrer

2 slam finals, defeating prime Rafa and prime Fed to get there

 

[mike danny]

In terms of accomplishments, I'm afraid he is.

But in terms of level, there are a number of players I would choose over him.

 

[martinezownsclay]

In terms of accomplishments, I'm afraid he is.

But in terms of level, there are a number of players I would choose over him.

That is going to be such a common reference to players in coming years I predict. The whole achievements Person today > Person past, actual tennis ability Person past > Person today thing.

 

[Mustard]

Put dominant Lendl on skates in that match as he held the BH on his racket longer than anyone I’ve ever seen (Bandy comes second).

The point at 3:22 has it all and then Drysdale sums it up all nicely.

The best point was in the video below at 39:20

 

[skaj]

In terms of accomplishments, I'm afraid he is.

But in terms of level, there are a number of players I would choose over him.

His results on grass are 4th round at Wimbledon and zero titles, so his accomplishments being greater is also questionable. There are for example players with a few less titles, but better results on grass, higher rankings, wins over top players at majors etc.

 

[AgassiSuperSlam11]

I believe a fair assessment of "accomplished" player should include the number of times you beat a top 10 in major tournaments, h2h against prominent players, and overall GS success in all surfaces. I put Zverev on my top 5, but he is a total of 0 wins out of his 39 top ten wins on bo5 matches. This speaks volume. Interestingly, he has a high GS PCT 66-26 (71.7%). He is tied 4-4 against ND on bo3 matches, but 0-3 on bo5 matches.

I'm higher on Nalbandian than many because his "A" game gave many problems. He is one of the few that gave prime Federer problems (8-11) and he also had positive H2H against #1 players as Moya and JC Ferrero. In addition, he got to QF or better 10 times divided between all FOUR slams. His GS record 86-36 (70.4%) is among the best for non-slam winners with 75 or more wins. Finally, his display at the Madrid Indoors when he defeated all the "big three" is still one of the greatest M1000 performances. Nadal was able to do a similar feat when he defeated Murray, Djokovic, and Federer on his way to Hamburg 2008. Not to mention had one of the greatest backhands in recent times.

Corretja won 17 titles and was collectively 5-2 against both Nadal and Fed (yes they were still green), and he was 3-3 against Hewitt. He was overall 61-38 in GS and made only 1 QF outside of RG. He did win a Bronze medal in Doubles and 31 top 10 wins. I thought he was a bit better than F. Gonzalez who won 11 titles and had 27 top 10 wins. FG really played well in the Olympics (10-2) where he won 3 medals (1 Silver, 1 Bronze, and 1 Gold Medal in Doubles.).

Ferrer made my list mainly due to his 27 titles and 54 top 10 wins. In addition, 145-63 GS (69.7%) but he was 1-6 M1000 finals. Davydenko, Corretja, and Zverev all have winning H2H against him. but he led Nalbandian 9-5.

Martin did make 2 GS finals and he has 34 wins top 10 (8 were bo5) while he enjoyed a 102-48 GS record. However, his total of 8 titles rate him slightly lower than some of the aforementioned.

Davydenko is 21-7 (75%) in all Finals and he did help Russia in winning a Davis Cup. He won 3 or more titles in 3 surfaces (HC, Clay, Carpet) and is known for having a 6-5 record against Nadal (yes I know 7 matches were played in hc) but he was a bit of a thorn to Nadal in Finals. However, Federer did own him. Davydenko had 38 top 10 wins. Furthermore, he is 3-0 in M1000 finals.

I think Zverev most likely will win a slam so this will eliminate him from the list. Expect some NextGen players like FAA, Shapo, Tsitsipas, and Rublev to battle it out for this dubious distinction.

 

[buscemi]

Soderling:
7-3 vs Berdych
5-0 vs Tsonga
10-4 vs Ferrer

2 slam finals, defeating prime Rafa and prime Fed to get there

But also 1-6 against Nalbandian.

 

[buscemi]

Mecir actually won a tournament (1987 Miami) that was 128 players and best of 5 sets in every round, like the majors. Not even the Australian Open had that in 1987.

Miloslav Mecir at 1987 Miami
R128: Miloslav Mecir def. Cassio Motta (6-1, 6-3, 6-0)
R64: Miloslav Mecir def. Jaime Yzaga (6-4, 6-3, 6-2)
R32: Miloslav Mecir def. Jimmy Arias (6-3, 6-4, 6-4)
R16: Miloslav Mecir def. Slobodan Zivojinovic (2-6, 6-1, 6-1, 6-4)
QF: Miloslav Mecir def. Stefan Edberg (3-6, 6-2, 6-2, 6-4)
SF: Miloslav Mecir def. Yannick Noah (7-5, 5-1 ret.)
F: Miloslav Mecir def. Ivan Lendl (7-5, 6-2, 7-5)

I always maintain that Mecir's 1987 Lipton win is overrated, albeit still a great title. He was slated to face #7 Leconte (who was 2-0 against him) in the R16, but Henri had to withdraw and was replaced by a lucky loser. Miloslav ended up facing players ranked #68, #69, #53, and #44 in the first 4 rounds. Then, in the SF, Noah had to retire mid-match b/c he had hurt his shoulder in beating Wilander 7-6 in the fifth set in the QF. Meanwhile, Becker, who was coming off of a win at Indian Wells and who would soon thereafter straight set Mecir in the Milan final, had to withdraw on the eve of the Lipton. And some other top players like McEnroe and Cash didn't even bother to play.

Mecir's QF and F wins over Edberg and Lendl are unimpeachable, and I'm in no way saying this wasn't a great win for Mecir, but I'd rate it behind some other wins at the same level, such as Nalbandian's 2007 Madrid win, where he beat Clement, Berdych, del Potro, Nadal, Djokovic, and Federer.

 

[travlerajm]

But also 1-6 against Nalbandian.

No shame in that. Even Peak Fed lost his first 5 matches to peak Dave before he became Fat Dave.

 

[King No1e]

For the millioneth time, NO. Lendl was. He had won 40 tournaments before he won his first major at the FO in 1984, had won Davis Cup, made 4 slam finals.

There is no rational argument in the slightest to claim Zverev was "the most accomplished player" to not win a major. He's not even in the realm of Lendl. 40 tournaments > 19.

End of it.

I think OP means players who have 0 majors as of today. In that regard Zverev is certainly a contender, as are Rios, Mecir, and Ferrer.

 

[King No1e]

To be somewhat fair he was going to be #1 if he won the AO, with the 2000 ranking points. Of course the attention was not on him, but it’s not like he’s just made that up.

I'm guessing he himself made that a big goal and kept talking about it with his team. Sometimes players will come into a match or tournament with more desire to win it than meets the eye; I remember Dimitrov was absolutely gutted after his AO loss to Nadal, because he had come in with full intention and gameplan to win. Ditto Wawrinka against Djokovic in that first epic. May have been an ordinary Slam match to us, but it was more important to them.