Observations about the guys from Cincinatti

librarysteg

librarysteg

Hall of Fame
A.K.A. Nadal and Federer really are ridiculously more popular the Djokovic, Murray, and everyone else.

Cincinnati has been my first big tennis tournament, and it was so interesting to see the things I read about here play out in real life, especially when it comes to fans and how they react to the players. Roger and Rafa were treated like rockstars...screaming fans at their practice sessions and waiting for them to leave the player exit. I happened to catch Rafa's exit last night, and it was insanity. Same with Roger singing autographs after his post-match interview Tuesday evening. Kids were getting trampled by adults there, and I was a little nervous being in that throng of people. For Novak and Andy the crowds were always smaller and much more subdued...people were excited to see them, don't get me wrong, but the level of excitement was noticeably different. Novak was late coming to his practice session so pretty much everyone cleared out, and it took quite awhile for a decent crowd to build back up. He signed a few autograph afterwards to relatively little fanfare.

Then there's poor Ferrer. It's really true; no one cares about Ferrer. He came to the practice court right after Novak yesterday. Novak's crowd streamed away, and I heard so many people asking who Ferrer was. Later at the player exit not a single person called his name as he was walking out. I was near the end of the line so when he got close to me I yelled out, "David" and he signed for me. A few other people stuck their stuff out. Reluctantly :)

I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised by all of this, but it's strange to see it with your own eyes.
 
This is the case at the USO as well from what I've seen, apart from being more successful than Djokovic and Murray, Nadal and Federer both have more exciting games to watch and hit many more highlight reel shots in their matches. They are also more naturally charismatic and better looking (yes, that has an impact lol). Roger and Rafa are superstars! Djokovic and Murray can both come off as slightly generic at times..
 
President said:
This is the case at the USO as well from what I've seen, apart from being more successful than Djokovic and Murray, Nadal and Federer both have more exciting games to watch and hit many more highlight reel shots in their matches. They are also more naturally charismatic and better looking (yes, that has an impact lol). Roger and Rafa are superstars! Djokovic and Murray can both come off as slightly generic at times..
Click to expand...

Better looking? Federer and Nadal? Yikes! You need glasses mate!
 
Russeljones said:
I am glad you had a good time :)

Poor Ferrer indeed. At least some of us here appreciate him.
Click to expand...

My husband is going to literally have to drag me home today. I keep thinking...we could just go for the day session and be home before the kids go to bed :)

Another funny observation: I went to watch Janowicz warm-up before his doubles match, and there were throngs of people. When I walked up, the Bryan Brothers were just leaving so I figured they'd take the crowd with them, but no. I was in complete shock that JJ had a bigger crowd that Novak had earlier in the day. At one point, this guy near me says something like, "they say he'll be coming in from over there" and points at the North entrance of the court. I'm like, who, JJ is right there already. Turns out Rafa was practicing right after so everyone was just waiting out Janowicz :)

If fan reaction could determine GOAT, I think Roger and Rafa are tied.
 
Poor Djokovic. You can see where the frustation of his father was coming from when he hit out at Nadal and Fed in that recent interview.

Team Djokovic can't quite understand why Nole isn't being treated with the same fanfare and rockstar status (by fans, the public etc) that Nadal and Fed still get. Djokovic tries hard as well...the clowning, the dancing, the impressions....yet he's basically still just another popular tennis player to people, despite being no.1 and heading towards all-time great status.

I think that's why Djokovic overcompensates. He wants the attention Fed and Nadal gets, and he thinks outsize displays of his "personality" can help him get it.
 
octogon said:
Poor Djokovic. You can see where the frustation of his father was coming from when he hit out at Nadal and Fed in that recent interview.

Team Djokovic can't quite understand why Nole isn't being treated with the same fanfare and rockstar status (by fans, the public etc) that Nadal and Fed still get. Djokovic tries hard as well...the clowning, the dancing, the impressions....yet he's basically still just another popular tennis player to people, despite being no.1 and heading towards all-time great status.

I think that's why Djokovic overcompensates. He wants the attention Fed and Nadal gets, and he thinks outsize displays of his "personality" can help him get it.
Click to expand...
I like Djokovic, but his sense of humor makes me cringe. How about that joke he made on Leno a few years ago? God that was bad.
 
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Ferrer is ranked 3 in the world and has almost zero shot of beating guys ranked 1 2 4 and 5. That doesn't make for a popular player to root for.

Once Ferrer actually starts beating some top players a bit more regularly and starts doing windmills after winning big points and hitting awesome winners then he'll be way more popular. As it stands now he's a mug with a boring game and zero personality.

I don't understand how someone can have such conistantly good results but cant beat any of the top players. Anybody in the top 10 has a shot. Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo always has a shot against the top guys. You watch Ferrer and he's hopeless against them. Yet he's ranked THRID in the world. it's stupid
 
Sid_Vicious said:
I don't know about Federer, but Nadal has a widespread appeal in that department.
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Federer used to look really dorky. Almost like Quentin Tarantino's brother. Ever since he hooked up with Anna Wintour and got the GQ make-over, he looks well put together and highly sophisticated. He's not exactly conventionally good looking, but with the 500 dollar haircuts and styling, he's got this suave/debonair thing going on that most of the other players lack. Djoker and Murray certainly don't carry that suave aura.

Nadal has that Agassi appeal. He's considered good looking, a sex symbol etc. Let's put it this way....Armani are never going to put Djokovic and Murray in underwear ads like they did for Nadal, because they know that stuff wouldn't fly. Nadal fits into the same bracket as Beckham or Cristiano Ronaldo, where he has a huge female fanbase because of his looks.
 
Devilito said:
Ferrer is ranked 3 in the world and has almost zero shot of beating guys ranked 1 2 4 and 5. That doesn't make for a popular player to root for.

Once Ferrer actually starts beating some top players a bit more regularly and starts doing windmills after winning big points and hitting awesome winners then he'll be way more popular. As it stands now he's a mug with a boring game and zero personality.

I don't understand how someone can have such conistantly good results but cant beat any of the top players. Anybody in the top 10 has a shot. Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo always has a shot against the top guys. You watch Ferrer and he's hopeless against them. Yet he's ranked THRID in the world. it's stupid
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Matchup issue. Ferrer is fundamentally a better player than Berdych and Tsonga but they are ball bashers and can get lucky one day against a top player and have all their shots land in. Ferrer has the same style as Djokovic basically but just plays it worse, so understandable why he can't win. He will never hit someone off the court and relies on outmaneuvering and out steadying his opponents, but Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic are more steady than he is while Federer is just an AWFUL matchup (and a much better player, of course).
 
librarysteg said:
My husband is going to literally have to drag me home today. I keep thinking...we could just go for the day session and be home before the kids go to bed :)

Another funny observation: I went to watch Janowicz warm-up before his doubles match, and there were throngs of people. When I walked up, the Bryan Brothers were just leaving so I figured they'd take the crowd with them, but no. I was in complete shock that JJ had a bigger crowd that Novak had earlier in the day. At one point, this guy near me says something like, "they say he'll be coming in from over there" and points at the North entrance of the court. I'm like, who, JJ is right there already. Turns out Rafa was practicing right after so everyone was just waiting out Janowicz :)

If fan reaction could determine GOAT, I think Roger and Rafa are tied.
Click to expand...

It's healthy for the game to have 'charaters' in it once again. Everyone is too nice to each other. :)
 
librarysteg said:
A.K.A. Nadal and Federer really are ridiculously more popular the Djokovic, Murray, and everyone else.

Cincinnati has been my first big tennis tournament, and it was so interesting to see the things I read about here play out in real life, especially when it comes to fans and how they react to the players. Roger and Rafa were treated like rockstars...screaming fans at their practice sessions and waiting for them to leave the player exit. I happened to catch Rafa's exit last night, and it was insanity. Same with Roger singing autographs after his post-match interview Tuesday evening. Kids were getting trampled by adults there, and I was a little nervous being in that throng of people. For Novak and Andy the crowds were always smaller and much more subdued...people were excited to see them, don't get me wrong, but the level of excitement was noticeably different. Novak was late coming to his practice session so pretty much everyone cleared out, and it took quite awhile for a decent crowd to build back up. He signed a few autograph afterwards to relatively little fanfare.

Then there's poor Ferrer. It's really true; no one cares about Ferrer. He came to the practice court right after Novak yesterday. Novak's crowd streamed away, and I heard so many people asking who Ferrer was. Later at the player exit not a single person called his name as he was walking out. I was near the end of the line so when he got close to me I yelled out, "David" and he signed for me. A few other people stuck their stuff out. Reluctantly :)

I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised by all of this, but it's strange to see it with your own eyes.
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LOL. Fed and Nad groupies. :lol:

I wouldn't have anything for Roger or Rafael to sign because they play with racquets, wear apparel and shoes that I don't use/wear. :/
 
Devilito said:
Ferrer is ranked 3 in the world and has almost zero shot of beating guys ranked 1 2 4 and 5. That doesn't make for a popular player to root for.

Once Ferrer actually starts beating some top players a bit more regularly and starts doing windmills after winning big points and hitting awesome winners then he'll be way more popular. As it stands now he's a mug with a boring game and zero personality.

I don't understand how someone can have such conistantly good results but cant beat any of the top players. Anybody in the top 10 has a shot. Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo always has a shot against the top guys. You watch Ferrer and he's hopeless against them. Yet he's ranked THRID in the world. it's stupid
Click to expand...

It's simple, Ferrer has no weapons other than good legs/endurance and a terrific return. He has solid fh/bh but that's about it, no absolutely killer shot.

You wonder why he is third? Because he plays many tourneys and is CONSISTENT, which isn't the word that springs to mind when talking about Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo. When's the last time you heard Ferrer go down in a MS/GS in the first rounds? When he enters smaller tourneys he usually makes SF/F or wins them.

And he's got another thing going for him, he rarely gets injured whereas Tsonga had issues in the past, now misses USO, Delpo had his well known injury woes and Berdych is very up and down as well. These guys may have more powerful shots than Ferrer but it's like the tortoise and the hare story. Ferrer knows he has little chances against the top 4 but the rest of the guys below them are up for grabs. Look at his h2h with the rest of the top 10:

Berdych - David leads 6-3.
Tsonga - David lead 3-1.
Delpo - Ferrer lead 6-3.
Wawrinka - Ferrer leads 7-4.
Raonic - Ferrer leads 4-0.

So a 26-11 h2h versus the rest of the top 10.

Here's my theory: the real top 4(djoko,nadal,fed,murray) are who they are because they have killer shots combined with CONSISTENCY, that's why Ferrer can make a dent sometimes against them but not often. Ferrer has only consistency and the other guys below him have brutal shots(especially delpo's fh) but they lack consistency in their games so they are more approachable for a guy like Ferrer.
 
Fewer people are interested in watching Djokovic and Murray play, ergo they are less popular. It's not complicated. It's got not much to do with charisma or looks or whatever.
 
ctoth666 said:
Fewer people are interested in watching Djokovic and Murray play, ergo they are less popular. It's not complicated. It's got not much to do with charisma or looks or whatever.
Click to expand...

But why are they less interested in Djokovic or Murray? Because they have less charisma, and are not as good looking, plus they're not as successful. That said, it wouldn't matter if Djokovic won 20 slams, he's just never going to be as popular as Federer or Nadal, and same goes for Murray.
 
ctoth666 said:
Fewer people are interested in watching Djokovic and Murray play, ergo they are less popular. It's not complicated. It's got not much to do with charisma or looks or whatever.
Click to expand...

Looks/charisma etc have everything to do with stardom. And tennis is a star driven sport.

Why is Maria Sharapova such a big deal? She's a very good and accomplished player, but her looks make her a much bigger star than she might be otherwise. If she had the same career and looked like Svetlana Kuznetsova or Amelie Mauresmo, she'd be nowhere as popular as she is.

The more marketable you are, the more popular you are. And looks in particular matter a lot when it comes to marketability. It's cruel to say it, but if Radek Stepanek or Nikolai Davydenko were the no.1 players, they'd be among the least marketable players to hold the top spot.
 
At IW, I found Nadal to attract more crowds during practice than Federer and there was more cheering for him. What is it like in Cincy?
 
Overdrive said:
LOL. Fed and Nad groupies. :lol:

I wouldn't have anything for Roger or Rafael to sign because they play with racquets, wear apparel and shoes that I don't use/wear. :/
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I thought I was going to be bad in the groupie department for my favorites, but I've got nothing on these women. The most fanatical appeared to be in their 50's.
 
sureshs said:
At IW, I found Nadal to attract more crowds during practice than Federer and there was more cheering for him. What is it like in Cincy?
Click to expand...

Seemed pretty evenly matched numbers wise from what I could see, but the decibels coming from the Rafa fans were significantly higher.
 
librarysteg said:
A.K.A. Nadal and Federer really are ridiculously more popular the Djokovic, Murray, and everyone else.

Cincinnati has been my first big tennis tournament, and it was so interesting to see the things I read about here play out in real life, especially when it comes to fans and how they react to the players. Roger and Rafa were treated like rockstars...screaming fans at their practice sessions and waiting for them to leave the player exit. I happened to catch Rafa's exit last night, and it was insanity. Same with Roger singing autographs after his post-match interview Tuesday evening. Kids were getting trampled by adults there, and I was a little nervous being in that throng of people. For Novak and Andy the crowds were always smaller and much more subdued...people were excited to see them, don't get me wrong, but the level of excitement was noticeably different. Novak was late coming to his practice session so pretty much everyone cleared out, and it took quite awhile for a decent crowd to build back up. He signed a few autograph afterwards to relatively little fanfare.

Then there's poor Ferrer. It's really true; no one cares about Ferrer. He came to the practice court right after Novak yesterday. Novak's crowd streamed away, and I heard so many people asking who Ferrer was. Later at the player exit not a single person called his name as he was walking out. I was near the end of the line so when he got close to me I yelled out, "David" and he signed for me. A few other people stuck their stuff out. Reluctantly :)

I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised by all of this, but it's strange to see it with your own eyes.
Click to expand...

I can relate to this. I have been to Abu Dhabi twice the first time in 2010 when Nadal and Federer were there; the atmoshpere was so electric and there was x-factor in the air. Queues for their autographs were long and whereever they went there were throngs of fans following. Last year Almagro slotted in for Rafa at the last minute and with no Nadal, no Federer things were very quiet. At the autograph sessions, you could almost just turn up and get a signature from Djoko, Murray, Ferrer, Almagro, Berdych etc. They all had security around them but no one was following, not even the world #1.

My daughter thought she would pay the other players their due respect and go for their autographs I went with her to take her photo with them and couldn't be bothered to have anything signed for myself, but I had the cheek to sent my best wishes to Rafa by Ferrer. We went to Murray's practice session and there was hardly anyone around; when he left I could touch him but again didn't really want his autograph.
 
octogon said:
Poor Djokovic. You can see where the frustation of his father was coming from when he hit out at Nadal and Fed in that recent interview.

Team Djokovic can't quite understand why Nole isn't being treated with the same fanfare and rockstar status (by fans, the public etc) that Nadal and Fed still get. Djokovic tries hard as well...the clowning, the dancing, the impressions....yet he's basically still just another popular tennis player to people, despite being no.1 and heading towards all-time great status.

I think that's why Djokovic overcompensates. He wants the attention Fed and Nadal gets, and he thinks outsize displays of his "personality" can help him get it.
Click to expand...

Djokovic has even tried giving away the entire contents of the locker room after his match to fans but still can't buy their affection.
 
namelessone said:
It's simple, Ferrer has no weapons other than good legs/endurance and a terrific return. He has solid fh/bh but that's about it, no absolutely killer shot.

You wonder why he is third? Because he plays many tourneys and is CONSISTENT, which isn't the word that springs to mind when talking about Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo. When's the last time you heard Ferrer go down in a MS/GS in the first rounds? When he enters smaller tourneys he usually makes SF/F or wins them.

And he's got another thing going for him, he rarely gets injured whereas Tsonga had issues in the past, now misses USO, Delpo had his well known injury woes and Berdych is very up and down as well. These guys may have more powerful shots than Ferrer but it's like the tortoise and the hare story. Ferrer knows he has little chances against the top 4 but the rest of the guys below them are up for grabs. Look at his h2h with the rest of the top 10:

Berdych - David leads 6-3.
Tsonga - David lead 3-1.
Delpo - Ferrer lead 6-3.
Wawrinka - Ferrer leads 7-4.
Raonic - Ferrer leads 4-0.

So a 26-11 h2h versus the rest of the top 10.

Here's my theory: the real top 4(djoko,nadal,fed,murray) are who they are because they have killer shots combined with CONSISTENCY, that's why Ferrer can make a dent sometimes against them but not often. Ferrer has only consistency and the other guys below him have brutal shots(especially delpo's fh) but they lack consistency in their games so they are more approachable for a guy like Ferrer.
Click to expand...

If Ferrer have only consistency, how does he post so strong results against the rest of the top 10? Did he played Del Potro and Berdych 12 times when they were in a bad day, and 6 time when they were in a good day? He is also 8-1 against Gasquet, 13-0 against Almagro, 3-1 against Cilic, 4-1 against Simon, the solid top 20 players of these last few years. He is 5-7 against Murray.

He doesn't play more than them either. He played 24 tournaments, like Berdych, Tsonga, Raonic. Wawrinka and Del Potro played 23.

Consistency explain why Ferrer is in front of them in the ranking. It doesn't explain why he beat them. Ferrer is good enough defensively to make these guys earn their winners, and his offensive abilities are good enough to top their defensive abilities, which are not at the level of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer.

The guy deserve to get credits for being the clear fifth better player in the world for several years.

Interestingly, he is only 4-10 against Soderling.
 
librarysteg said:
I thought I was going to be bad in the groupie department for my favorites, but I've got nothing on these women. The most fanatical appeared to be in their 50's.
Click to expand...

Hey, I take an honest Federer/Nadal fan anyday over a Federer/Nadal fanatic. Take any Michael Jackson or One Direction groupie, put them in Federer and Nadal gear, and you won't tell the difference. In other words, fanboys and fangirls from other irrelevant celebrities act the exact same way as the folks on here. :lol:

Also, I'm not surprised that the middle-aged women were among the screaming fans. You should remember that during this age, their 'desire' is high and they look at these men as very attractive.
 
octogon said:
Looks/charisma etc have everything to do with stardom. And tennis is a star driven sport.

Why is Maria Sharapova such a big deal? She's a very good and accomplished player, but her looks make her a much bigger star than she might be otherwise. If she had the same career and looked like Svetlana Kuznetsova or Amelie Mauresmo, she'd be nowhere as popular as she is.

The more marketable you are, the more popular you are. And looks in particular matter a lot when it comes to marketability. It's cruel to say it, but if Radek Stepanek or Nikolai Davydenko were the no.1 players, they'd be among the least marketable players to hold the top spot.
Click to expand...



I dont know. Stepanek and Kuznetsova on the covers of magazine would surely be a big hit. You could fold those issues up and use them as flies swatters.
 
Devilito said:
Ferrer is ranked 3 in the world and has almost zero shot of beating guys ranked 1 2 4 and 5. That doesn't make for a popular player to root for.

Once Ferrer actually starts beating some top players a bit more regularly and starts doing windmills after winning big points and hitting awesome winners then he'll be way more popular. As it stands now he's a mug with a boring game and zero personality.

I don't understand how someone can have such conistantly good results but cant beat any of the top players. Anybody in the top 10 has a shot. Berdych, Tsonga, Delpo always has a shot against the top guys. You watch Ferrer and he's hopeless against them. Yet he's ranked THRID in the world. it's stupid
Click to expand...

Actually, Ferrer is now ranked #4 in the world. Nadal overtook him into 3rd spot when he won Montreal last week. If he goes on to win Cincy and Murray doesn't make at least the semis, he will displace him as #2 as well!
 
Mainad said:
Actually, Ferrer is now ranked #4 in the world. Nadal overtook him into 3rd spot when he won Montreal last week. If he goes on to win Cincy and Murray doesn't make at least the semis, he will displace him as #2 as well!
Click to expand...

If that happens, the forum will have more GOAT threads, doping threads, and anti-Nadal threads. :-|
 
Actually in Rome earlier this year Nole was a huge superstar. Not Nadal level and certainly not close to Fed's level, but pretty big. He's gaining popularity pretty quickly, give him a few years.

But yeah, Novak does seem to lack that superhero aura of Fed and super villan aura of Nadal.
 
Magnus said:
Actually in Rome earlier this year Nole was a huge superstar. Not Nadal level and certainly not close to Fed's level, but pretty big. He's gaining popularity pretty quickly, give him a few years.

But yeah, Novak does seem to lack that superhero aura of Fed and super villan aura of Nadal.
Click to expand...

Djokovic has always got a lot a support in Rome over the last few years, an unusual amount I would actually say compared to other tournaments. Not sure why but its pretty evident, a lot more "Nole" chants than in any big tournament in the world probably. It isn't representative compared to other tournaments I've attended, where as the OP rightly points out he is quite a ways behind Nadal and Federer ESPECIALLY in the United States.
 
President said:
Djokovic has always got a lot a support in Rome over the last few years, an unusual amount I would actually say compared to other tournaments. Not sure why but its pretty evident, a lot more "Nole" chants than in any big tournament in the world probably. It isn't representative compared to other tournaments I've attended, where as the OP rightly points out he is quite a ways behind Nadal and Federer ESPECIALLY in the United States.
Click to expand...

Djokovic can speak Italian fluently, I believe. He says he feels a local over there and has won the tournament twice.
 
It's an interesting intellectual exercise to suppose whether Novak/Murray could ever gain the fanship that Fedal have if they rivaled their success. Could it just be that there's only so many fans in tennis and most of them have already emotionally committed themselves to either Rafa or Roger?

I also don't understand the implication that most of these fans at the tournaments are women, as most women I know couldn't care less about sports. Maybe tennis is an exception?
 
Tip for you guys from another thread by a Babolat rep:

If anyone is at Cincy today (Thursday), stop by the Fast Serve Cage today at 3 PM. I'll be there and you can watch Jack Sock hit some big serves.
 
As a tennis enthusiast, I was psyched to see the matches yesterday in Cinci... Djokovic, Murray, Serena... all in one afternoon.

You can see in the pics, that the stands were sadly bare, but Cinci has this problem in the early rounds. It's a weekday and unless you are a tennis enthusiast (which to it's credit there are a lot of tennis fans in Cinci), the stands don't fill up until the night sessions in the early rounds (and as evinced by the match times, they put Roger and Rafa in the night slots for each of their respective first matches, pretty much every year for this reason).

Murray match, 11am:
5v2x.jpg


Serena match, 1pm:
pp84.jpg


Djokovic match, 3pm:
tb78.jpg


Federer practicing, 5pm:
n326.jpg
 
I of course was able to catch many more matches, Wednesdays are my favorite day to go to this tourney (I was a ballkid there for 5 years back in the 90s). The early rounds are less crowded, and you can see 10-20 different matches all day... including doubles and lots of people practicing. This tourney is very inexpensive for what you get to see up close.

del Potro vs. Davydenko:
a8kl.jpg

93ij.jpg


Raonic vs. Tipsarevic:
5f0l.jpg


Youzhny backhand:
tlpf.jpg
 
President said:
This is the case at the USO as well from what I've seen, apart from being more successful than Djokovic and Murray, Nadal and Federer both have more exciting games to watch and hit many more highlight reel shots in their matches. They are also more naturally charismatic and better looking (yes, that has an impact lol). Roger and Rafa are superstars! Djokovic and Murray can both come off as slightly generic at times..
Click to expand...

What the heck are you talking about ? I'm a big Rafa fan, but he's not better looking than Djoker. You need glasses dude. Murray and Federer are ugliest of the top 5
 
President said:
Djokovic has always got a lot a support in Rome over the last few years, an unusual amount I would actually say compared to other tournaments. Not sure why but its pretty evident, a lot more "Nole" chants than in any big tournament in the world probably. It isn't representative compared to other tournaments I've attended, where as the OP rightly points out he is quite a ways behind Nadal and Federer ESPECIALLY in the United States.
Click to expand...

Djoko's GF was at uni there, I believe.
 
beast of mallorca said:
What the heck are you talking about ? I'm a big Rafa fan, but he's not better looking than Djoker. You need glasses dude. Murray and Federer are ugliest of the top 5
Click to expand...

Another Nadal groupie...There's so much trolling about the player's appearances. :roll:

Put a picture of yourself as your avatar. Then, we'll judge of how attractive you are. But no, you won't do that because you have zero integrity.
 
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