Observations on Roddick vs Nadal. Spoiler!

Mr Topspin

Semi-Pro
I like many others assumed the Roodick would just shave the match and was the slight favourite going into the match. Firstly, he has a big serve and was playing and serving well and had not faced a breakpoint, having played solid players like O Rochus and Ljubicic. Secondly, in theory he his a accomplished hard court player and had improved his volley and transistion game. All these dynamics are exactly what it appears is the blue print to beat Nadal ala Blake, Gonzalez and Youzny.

However, for some bizarre reason Roodick came out and paid far too much respect to Nadal. It was almost as if he was in awe of Nadal's reputation. He should not have. Nadal has been in a slump for a few months ans was recently beaten in Dubai by Youzny. Roddick should have pumped himself up especially as he won their last meeting on US soil. Like i said in theory Roddick has the game to beat Nadal as the other players i mentioned have in theory. But in practice, we all saw in a way why Roddick loses so frequently to Federer. If Federer with all his skills and multideimensions has to come to net against Nadal then its a given that Roddick has to set up shop there. Roddick instead tried to fight it out from the back especially in the first set and once he lost that he reverted to panic mode Andy and adopted his ill fated Kamikaze volley game. By then it was as it often is too late for Arod.

So in the end he gets a a drubbing on his favourite surface against a guy supposedly in a slump. I still believe Arod has the game to compete with Nadal but he must execute and he must get his belief back.
 

The Smiths

New User
I understand you have an optimistic view on this but Roddick was outclassed even in the serving category. Roddick is not very good against top ten players. His record against top tenners is 17-36. A win-loss ratio of 0.327 which is very poor. Especially for a slam champion and former number one player. Where as Federer and Nadal rank the highest against top ten players.

R.Federer ---- 0.716 - 83-33
R.Nadal ------ 0.687 - 20-10
L.Hewitt ----- 0.589 - 56-39
A.Roddick ---- 0.327 - 17-36


There's a reason Roger and Rafa are the two best in the world by a fair margin. The best Roddick can do with his game at this point is finish in the top 3 behind those two and there's no shame in that. But I don't see what Roddick could've done to change the result today. :confused:
 

Cfidave

Professional
What makes you think Roddick was ever the favorite to win this match? I would have been shocked if he beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal is #2 in the world, and has a winning record against Federer.
 

Mr Topspin

Semi-Pro
I understand you have an optimistic view on this but Roddick was outclassed even in the serving category. Roddick is not very good against top ten players. His record against top tenners is 17-36. A win-loss ratio of 0.327 which is very poor. Especially for a slam champion and former number one player. Where as Federer and Nadal rank the highest against top ten players.

R.Federer ---- 0.716 - 83-33
R.Nadal ------ 0.687 - 20-10
L.Hewitt ----- 0.589 - 56-39
A.Roddick ---- 0.327 - 17-36


There's a reason Roger and Rafa are the two best in the world by a fair margin. The best Roddick can do with his game at this point is finish in the top 3 behind those two and there's no shame in that. But I don't see what Roddick could've done to change the result today. :confused:


Good Point!

It was mentioned that Arod's record vs top 10 guys was poor but he just beat a fairly good Ivan and has improved his volley game ala Shanghai Masters vs Federer (Arod had 3 matchpoints). It just seemed that he checked out mentally.
 

Mr Topspin

Semi-Pro
What makes you think Roddick was ever the favorite to win this match? I would have been shocked if he beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal is #2 in the world, and has a winning record against Federer.

The fact that he is despite his shortcoming a good hard court player. Always has been. However, Nadal showed why Federer always pummels Arod; superior movement, anticpation and superb pasing shots!
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
What makes you think Roddick was ever the favorite to win this match? I would have been shocked if he beat Nadal. There is a reason why Nadal is #2 in the world, and has a winning record against Federer.

I'm not much of a Nadal fan, but the guy just outclassed Roddick in every way. Actually, it was quite embarassing. What is Connors telling him?? And when will Connors--one of the greatest baseliners in history--STOP encouraging Roddick to attack the net in that clumsy, heavy-footed, foolish way which (as usual) fails him as though he's a green junior!

Roddick is not now, nor will he ever be some sort of all-court player...not a serve and volley expert--he has no buisness doing that, yet the fool continues...and loses when it counts. At this point, Roddick's entire career seems to be that of a placeholder for a high ranking, with no Slams, and no reason to be.
 

tennis-n-sc

Professional
I'm not much of a Nadal fan, but the guy just outclassed Roddick in every way. Actually, it was quite embarassing. What is Connors telling him?? And when will Connors--one of the greatest baseliners in history--STOP encouraging Roddick to attack the net in that clumsy, heavy-footed, foolish way which (as usual) fails him as though he's a green junior!

Roddick is not now, nor will he ever be some sort of all-court player...not a serve and volley expert--he has no buisness doing that, yet the fool continues...and loses when it counts. At this point, Roddick's entire career seems to be that of a placeholder for a high ranking, with no Slams, and no reason to be.

I have just checked the ATP rankings from #1 to #1,000 and I simply couldn't find THUNDERVOLLEY on the list. Have I overlooked you somewhere?;)

Roddick has the game to consistently beat Nadal on hard courts. He doesn't have the head for the match. He does very well against most players excluding Fed and Rafa. He simply gets mentally freaked out when playing these two. It also seems Murray is getting to his head at times as well. But give the guy his dues. He is a very good pro tennis player, consistently top 5. Will he ever be a serve and volley expert in the Sampras, Rafter mode, or even Heman? Not likely. But he is trying and is much better than he was a few years back. Actually, his entire game is markedly better. Good thing, too. He served very badly against Rafa. More head stuff. Rafa plaed the best hard court game he's played in a looong time. Big ups to him. He rose to the occasion while Roddick didn't. I don't know if mental toughness is something that can be coached. If not, look for Andy to be as you say, a placeholder of a high ranking. I'd take it.
 

NamRanger

G.O.A.T.
I'm not much of a Nadal fan, but the guy just outclassed Roddick in every way. Actually, it was quite embarassing. What is Connors telling him?? And when will Connors--one of the greatest baseliners in history--STOP encouraging Roddick to attack the net in that clumsy, heavy-footed, foolish way which (as usual) fails him as though he's a green junior!

Roddick is not now, nor will he ever be some sort of all-court player...not a serve and volley expert--he has no buisness doing that, yet the fool continues...and loses when it counts. At this point, Roddick's entire career seems to be that of a placeholder for a high ranking, with no Slams, and no reason to be.




Connors wants Roddick to come to net on his own terms, not kamakazie head on like he did against Nadal.
 

tykrum

Rookie
Roddick has the game to consistently beat Nadal on hard courts. He doesn't have the head for the match. He does very well against most players excluding Fed and Rafa. He simply gets mentally freaked out when playing these two.

You do realize that this was the first time he has played Nadal since 2004, right? When they played back then, Roddick killed Nadal on hard, and took a set off him on extremely slow clay. I don't know what basis you have for saying he gets mentally freaked out against him.

The fact of the match was that Nadal played better than he has since Wimbledon last year. He was just too good - Roddick would have had to served as well as he possibly could to beat him. I'm looking forward to them playing again; I think they could definitely still have some very good matches in the future. But if Nadal continues to play like that, we are going to be seeing many more Nadal/Federer finals again, and probably many more Nadal wins.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Roddick has the game to consistently beat Nadal on hard courts. He doesn't have the head for the match. He does very well against most players excluding Fed and Rafa. He simply gets mentally freaked out when playing these two. It also seems Murray is getting to his head at times as well.

"Mentally freaked out" sell the case aganst Roddick. More to the point, he is handicapped by something no amount of training can fix. Again, when it counts--particularly against Federer, he fails. Nadal is not #2 for no good reason--and again, this is from someone who is NOT a Nadal fan at all.

But give the guy his dues. He is a very good pro tennis player, consistently top 5. Will he ever be a serve and volley expert in the Sampras, Rafter mode, or even Heman? Not likely.

Then he should not try when it is apparent it does not support his game well at all. His body type (lurching, heavy-footed, no touch at net to speak of) and lack of the kind of athleticism seen in various S&Vs prevents him from using it a constant, sucessful tool.

I don't know if mental toughness is something that can be coached. If not, look for Andy to be as you say, a placeholder of a high ranking. I'd take it.

Why take that? As a pro, just winning the occasional title is not enough. The Slams are the zenith of a pro's career, and he's not cutting it. No matter what he tries, he's not the person he was when he won his lone GS title. It is as though the world was--all for a moment--shocked by his serve and youth backing it, but once a little time passed to settle into playing him, he was far too easy to figure out, or rather, his type of game is too simple.
 

tennis-n-sc

Professional
Why take that? As a pro, just winning the occasional title is not enough. The Slams are the zenith of a pro's career, and he's not cutting it. No matter what he tries, he's not the person he was when he won his lone GS title. It is as though the world was--all for a moment--shocked by his serve and youth backing it, but once a little time passed to settle into playing him, he was far too easy to figure out, or rather, his type of game is too simple.

There are worse players in the Hall of Fame. I am no Nadal fan and I do want Arod to do well but Nadal was, quite frankly, superb Saturday and would have given Federer a run for his money, likely beat him on Saturday. I think Andy's game has evolved quite nicely. He played a great match against Ljubicic, a player most want nothing to do with. I think of all the great players that never won a slam and I think you are being a bit overly critical of the guy. But that's your perogrative. They all want to win slams but few do. At least he has one, which is one more than most.
 

TheTruth

G.O.A.T.
I think Roddick was caught a bit unawares. He came to play. That was obvious from the first point. He clocked that 140 mph serve over the net and strutted confidently to the other side. The second serve was hard and fast too. But after that, those big booming serves started coming back with interest and Roddick got flustered. What in the world was going on? Nadal was supposed to be just a clay courter. He wasn't supposed to be good on hard courts, especially against big hitters. And BTW isn't this guy in a slump? There was no way he was going to be able to return that serve, but he did. Time after time. So flustered got he that he started to doubt his own strength, and without that serve he was pretty much toast. But, still Roddick tried. You have to give him credit for that. He doesn't have all of the skills of the #1 and #2, but he does keep battling for his own spot in the sun. Gotta give credit where credit is due!
 
D

Deleted member 4983

Guest
Roddick was playing great, hadn't dropped his serve, if i'm correct?... that all changes when you play Nadal. I knew Roddick had NO chance. That's what Rafa does. You could be playing the best tennis of your life, and Rafa will go out there and send your tennis soul to the depths of mediocrity hell.
 

Andrew

Rookie
I'll agree that Nadal played extremely well (served at ~88% for the match) but Roddick played worse than I've seen him play in a long time straight from the word go. He just didn't seem to mentally know what to do as the match progressed.

No less than 3 times did I watch Roddick slice it deep to the Nadal forehand and Nadal would whip it up the line for a winner. He consistently hit poor approach shots followed up by poor volleys.

The worst thing, I think, was his depth. He consistently hit his groundstrokes short, landing on the service line most of the time. I don't know where he got the idea that's a smart tactic, but it's not. He's been hitting with good depth most of his matches at IW, but his intellect and overall ability was greatly diminished yesterday.
 

Bottle Rocket

Hall of Fame
What frustrates me more than anything else is how he plays so carelessly on his own serve. He did this in the match against Nadal as well as with Federer.

In the first game in both matches, he made some TERRIBLE errors right off the bat on his own serve. He just shakes them off assuming he is going to hit a big serve. He came in off a terrible approach shot, makes a terrible volley, and acts like he has so many more chances that it won't matter. He instantly get's behind in the match.

I realize serves are his weapon and can keep him in a match, but he can't depend on them as much as he does. He always get's himself into trouble. It is so odd how in these big matches out of nowhere he loses a service game at love.

I also realize his ground game is different than it used to be, but he has to adapt to his opponents. Roddick may hit a heavy ball, but did he really think he could somehow out-hit Nadal from the baseline? Really? Is he ********?

He needed to go for more off the ground and flatten out his shots. It is as if he has not seen any of the matches against Nadal with Blake and Youzhny. We have all seen Roddick hit huge flat forehands. Well, this would have been the match to bring that back. You can't beat Nadal from the baseline with consistancy. I can guarantee you Gilbert toaught him the importance of a game plan. What was his plan?

Right now Roddick might have the worst baseline game in the top 10.

I love watching him, but it frustrates the hell out of me when he ruins these big matches.
 
well i think what really kills him, was his backhand. I mean his backhand has improved, but it can only work to a certain extent. Like the choking of the racquet. I think its effective only if a lot of pace is hit towards the backhand side. And its more so a higher percentage shot, the match also proved to show how valueable his serve is. Nadal is by far just more solid atheltically and shot making wise than roddick. But that doesnt mean roddick cant beat him. If he hits good deep approach shots that he didnt do, and come into the net confidently then things would have changed. He seemed uncomfortable, with it being windy in all as well. And nadal hitting with all that topspin benefits him as well. And truly the only way to beat nadal is to be agressive flat and take it to him. Like plays like youzhny and blake to do him. But nadal probably played one of his best hardcourt matches in a long time.
 

Nadal_Freak

Banned
well i think what really kills him, was his backhand. I mean his backhand has improved, but it can only work to a certain extent. Like the choking of the racquet. I think its effective only if a lot of pace is hit towards the backhand side. And its more so a higher percentage shot, the match also proved to show how valueable his serve is. Nadal is by far just more solid atheltically and shot making wise than roddick. But that doesnt mean roddick cant beat him. If he hits good deep approach shots that he didnt do, and come into the net confidently then things would have changed. He seemed uncomfortable, with it being windy in all as well. And nadal hitting with all that topspin benefits him as well. And truly the only way to beat nadal is to be agressive flat and take it to him. Like plays like youzhny and blake to do him. But nadal probably played one of his best hardcourt matches in a long time.
That's the one thing or should I say many things in Roddick's game that he lacks. He can't take it to players on the return. His forehand is not big enough and his backhand is a liability. He comes to the net on weak shots and he doesn't move well at the net. Nadal exploited all these things in this match. I guess the only surprise in this match is how well Nadal handled Roddicks serve but other than that it seemed predictable what would happen in baseline rallies.
 
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The Smiths

New User
well i think what really kills him, was his backhand. I mean his backhand has improved, but it can only work to a certain extent. Like the choking of the racquet. I think its effective only if a lot of pace is hit towards the backhand side. And its more so a higher percentage shot, the match also proved to show how valueable his serve is. Nadal is by far just more solid atheltically and shot making wise than roddick. But that doesnt mean roddick cant beat him. If he hits good deep approach shots that he didnt do, and come into the net confidently then things would have changed. He seemed uncomfortable, with it being windy in all as well. And nadal hitting with all that topspin benefits him as well. And truly the only way to beat nadal is to be agressive flat and take it to him. Like plays like youzhny and blake to do him. But nadal probably played one of his best hardcourt matches in a long time.

I never realized how much Roddick's game has fallen behind Fed and Nadal. Back in 2003 Fed wasn't as good as now and Nadal was 15-16 yrs old. Now Fed is too good and Nadal is right behind him and Roddick hasn't done much to improve himself to eclipse them. He probably never will. Roddick can't play like Blake (nowadays not even Blake either) or Youzhny. It's like asking Roddick to play like Canas to beat Fed. The thing with Roddick is that he always approached the net on bad shots. That's his MO. How many times have I seen him get passed on a regular basis by Hewitt and Fed? The net approach is a good idea but you can't come in crosscourt or on a loopy forehand. If he could crack the forehand like Berdych THEN I would come in. But Roddick is in a classic "damned if you do and damned it you don't" situation. He's damned if he stays back and attempt to rally with Nadal and he's damned if he comes to net and get passed anyway. That's what we call in sports "just too good". And Nadal was all of that and a bag of chips against Roddick. But as a consolation to Andy, if it weren't for Fed and Nadal he probably would be the current US Open defending champ and probably the #1 player in the world. As crazy as that sounds.
 
That's the one thing in Roddick's game that he lacks. He can't take it to players on the return. His forehand is not big enough and his backhand is a liability. He comes to the net on weak shots and he doesn't move well at the net. Nadal exploited all these things in this match. I guess the only surprise in this match is how well Nadal handled Roddicks serve but other than that it seemed predictable what would happen in baseline rallies.

Well he wasnt stepping into the return which was a factor. Well roddick wasnt serving that great, i doubt nadal could keep up with roddick serving like he normally does, or with more intesity. I think roddick should just hit kick serves and flat to nadal. Because the heavy topspin roddick hit on his serve was useless, because nadal is strong enough to handle it, and keep the rally in play, thus giving the advantage to him. I think he still needs to improve and he can at net. Hes not a great volleyer, but he shows how u dont have to be a great volleyer to win points. Nadal also did a good job of pushing roddick back with the heavy topspin shot. Roddick wasnt able to play his style, which is jumping on stuff with his forehand to get into points.
 

Jaen

New User
A lot of people here say Roddick needed to hit deeper flatter approach shots, but as I recall, he had Nadal running corner to corner with fairly deep approach shots and Nadal just did a running forehand dtl. If Roddick hit anything deeper or flatter it would've just been a flat out winner and he wouldn't even have had to come to net. The fact is, Roddick was a little off on his serve and kinda fell apart mentally and Nadal was playing pretty well that day.
 

DoubleHanded&LovinIt

Professional
I was at the match, courtside. Seeing the two together on the court made you realize how large the chasm between #2 and #3 really is in terms of...movement and anticipation. Rafa moved/anticipated beautifully and Andy moved/anticpated like he was drunk and blindfolded.

Also, two more things, Andy tried to serve far too big...in the 140's consistently. He would have been fine serving in the 130's against Nadal. Secondly, as Bottle Rocket noted, Andy should have flattened out his forehand instead of coming at Nadal with the high and heavy stuff.
 

The Smiths

New User
I was at the match, courtside. Seeing the two together on the court made you realize how large the chasm between #2 and #3 really is in terms of...movement and anticipation. Rafa moved/anticipated beautifully and Andy moved/anticpated like he was drunk and blindfolded.

Also, two more things, Andy tried to serve far too big...in the 140's consistently. He would have been fine serving in the 130's against Nadal. Secondly, as Bottle Rocket noted, Andy should have flattened out his forehand instead of coming at Nadal with the high and heavy stuff.

Roddick almost tried to ¨overcompensate¨ for his lack of ground game against Nadal with attempting to bomb every serve at 140+. He knew he was out matched and looked to his serve for salvation. This time it didn´t work. As it seems to be the case whenever he plays a top ten player. He´s great at beating lesser players.
 
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