Obstacles to Transitioning to Semiwestern

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Three days ago I played a match with a semiwestern grip for the first time. The results surprisingly promising.

My usual fh grip is between eastern and semiwestern.
To recap my story, I never learned a decent forehand as a junior, but reached a high level of play, playing 5.0 level at times, and settling into a 4.5-5.0 level for most of my adult tennis life. My weak forehand was capping my level. However, I developed an excellent slice fh return that allowed me to compete and sometimes win matches against 5.0 players.

During the pandemic, I developed a fairly solid new fh technique that relies on a fixed wrist at contact. My baseline game level shot up a notch, and I started winning everything last year. But that was on hardcourt.

My fixed-wrist forehand is useless here on red clay in South America. So I am starting from scratch trying to learn a full lag forehand that makes it easier to adjust last instant to clay bounces, and easier to generate more racquet speed that helps for clay court tennis.

But it’s been a struggle, so I thought maybe I’ve got nothing to lose by trying a stronger grip?

On the plus side, I’ve found that when my semiwestern fh connects with the right timing, it generates a really heavy rally ball that gives my opponents problems. It helps that I’m using a slightly head heavy frame with 375sw that can really club it.

The number one obstacle is that I have tendency to meet the ball too late. My old fh has a contact point further back relative to my stance, and it’s difficult to adjust to a contact point further out in front. This becomes harder when I get tired. And my cardio system is working hard in these super hot conditions, so I’m often playing under extreme cardio stress.

The second obstacle is that my grip tends to drift back toward my old grip. So even if I meet the ball with the right contact point, the wrong grip will cause me to launch the fh into the fence.

The third issue is that as soon as the first two issues start to occur, I start to bail out to the trusty slice too often, passing up opportunities to create offense with the heavy topspin semi drive.

On Wednesday, I came within points of upsetting my nemesis for the first time, but I wore down at the end when my new semi grip fh broke down. Lost the set to her 7-5.

Then yesterday, I destroyed a 5.0 teaching pro who used to beat me most of the time. Again I started losing the fh feel though when heat exhaustion set in.

Any tips for reinforcing the right out-in-front contact point and ‘locking in’ the new stronger grip are welcome.
 
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BallChaser

New User
When making a major change in technique, frustration is your major enemy. Improvement is not linear. One day, you do better than the day before. Another day, you do worse. Remind yourself every day of executing your new grip and shot, but expect that you may hit in a way you don't expect. Enjoy the surprise.
 
I have a tendency to dump my first serve into the net. Then I changed my trophy position to wind my shoulder more. This affected my timing and contact point and had the unintended consequence of fixing my first serve issue.

I suggest changing your forehand takeback a little...maybe one that allows early prep. So your new forehand feels slightly different than the old one.
 

Dragy

Legend
So, if I got it right, you beat 5.0 players while tinkering with your FH going back and force between grips within a match? Your real potential must be sky-high, you just need to settle with one solid FH variation and drill it down in practice environment for 3-6 month!
 

Slowtwitcher

Hall of Fame
So, if I got it right, you beat 5.0 players while tinkering with your FH going back and force between grips within a match? Your real potential must be sky-high, you just need to settle with one solid FH variation and drill it down in practice environment for 3-6 month!
Now that's just crazy talk
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
So, if I got it right, you beat 5.0 players while tinkering with your FH going back and force between grips within a match? Your real potential must be sky-high, you just need to settle with one solid FH variation and drill it down in practice environment for 3-6 month!
I have two former top-1000 level players in my weekly hitting rotation. My goal is to beat both of them before I leave. I notched two semi-fluky wins over the guy two years ago, but haven’t beaten him yet in 2021. I’ve been experimenting with the racquets and fh technique and my fh has been a mess every time I’ve played him this year. He has huge amazing fh and can abuse me if I don’t have my own weapons.

The gal, I’ve never beaten her. She goes entire sets without making an unforced error. But I played probably my best set against her this week. The close result was aided by serve, 2hb, and volleys being really good with my current racquet setup. My forehand is still holding me back from taking that next step and catching her.

But this new semiwestern technique is giving me some hope. I kind of hit rock bottom two weeks ago on my first match back here on the red clay when she blitzed me in an embarrassingly non-competitive session. I think I shocked her the next day when I came back multiple levels improved due to better tuned racquet setup and pushed her to 6-4.

In full disclosure, I don’t have anywhere near the talent of these players, but playing with a lot higher swingweight evens the playing field more than most people realize. I enjoy the same technological advantage over these ex-pros that Djok, Nadal, Murray, Wawa, Med, and Zverev enjoy over the next gen field.

I’m excited that my new forehand feels accessible. I was actually inspired when a friend shared an article about Adrian Mannarino reviving his career by making a grip switch. I realized that I’m in a similar situation - my forehand has always been multiple levels below the rest of my game.
 
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TennisDawg

Professional
I changed from an eastern fh grip to sw grip by doing shadow swings using a full western grip followed by drop feeds using the full western grip. A couple of hundred shadow swings per day for about a week then several hundred drop feeds. I was able to adapt to the more extreme grip. This made the sw feel more natural.

I’m not sure if that answers your post.
 
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movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
It took me six months to transition to SW from Eastern. I lost most of the matches I played. It was either slide back to the Eastern and lose whatever I had gained or go for broke, lose a lot, and gradually get better. It just takes time - and it stinks to lose while you're making the transition but that's the way it goes.

On the heat exhaustion thing - you could take up running.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
On the heat exhaustion thing - you could take up running.
When one hour of singles tennis here (in high heat index conditions) gives me as much cardio as 4h of tennis at home, I figure 3x tennis per week ought to eventually get my heart in better shape. I feel like I’m always in recovery mode.
 

Dragy

Legend
When one hour of singles tennis here (in high heat index conditions) gives me as much cardio as 4h of tennis at home, I figure 3x tennis per week ought to eventually get my heart in better shape. I feel like I’m always in recovery mode.
Based on what I researched, it doesn't work this way. To say it short, if you add extra 3x of slow running (~120 bpm heart rate) or even walking each next day for 40-60 min, you'll recovery much better and actually build up your cardio. If you keep exhausting yourself for 3x per week, you'll likely stay fatigued more and more until you take a long rest. And risk exposure for your joints and ligaments grows as well.
 
A video is worth 1,000 posts. You have a smartphone, I assume? In all seriousness, input from the collective here might be useful, but it's difficult when you can't see anything.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Based on what I researched, it doesn't work this way. To say it short, if you add extra 3x of slow running (~120 bpm heart rate) or even walking each next day for 40-60 min, you'll recovery much better and actually build up your cardio. If you keep exhausting yourself for 3x per week, you'll likely stay fatigued more and more until you take a long rest. And risk exposure for your joints and ligaments grows as well.
I like the walking idea.
 

nyta2

Professional
Three days ago I played a match with a semiwestern grip for the first time....
i went from hawaiian to semiwestern/strong eastern... took me a year of practicing ~10h/w...
so if you're making significant progress in 3d... you're way more talented than me
Any tips for reinforcing the right out-in-front contact point and ‘locking in’ the new stronger grip are welcome.
my tip... practice more than 3d... i can only imagine how good you'll be at the end of the week!
 
i went from hawaiian to semiwestern/strong eastern... took me a year of practicing ~10h/w...
so if you're making significant progress in 3d... you're way more talented than me

my tip... practice more than 3d... i can only imagine how good you'll be at the end of the week!
What was it like playing with Hawaiian? Were you taught that way? I have a hard time even holding the racquet that far over. What were your pros and cons with that grip? I’m genuinely curious.
 

nyta2

Professional
What was it like playing with Hawaiian? Were you taught that way? I have a hard time even holding the racquet that far over. What were your pros and cons with that grip? I’m genuinely curious.
when i was kid, i was short, as most kids are (still am!)... and was playing alot of moonballers... so my grip started eastern, but gradually drifted more to western and ultimately closer to hawaiian (i could hit my topspin fh/fh slice/serve all from the same grip)... as i hit more and more balls over my head, i'd loop them back...

pro: high heavy balls are tough for opponent too, especially to their bh... high contact was most comfortable
con: low balls were challenging (i would slice them back),... very difficult to hit through the court (mostly looped it back)... personally also found it harder to hit for depth (but that could be a function of practice too)
probably could have stayed with the grip if i mostly played on clay (ala berestegui) where the ball is typically high, and looping balls back is effective...
but i was playing mostly hard court... so i was getting crushed by folks who could take the ball on the rise (harder to take balls on the rise on clay due to bad bounces), and hit through the court..
 
when i was kid, i was short, as most kids are (still am!)... and was playing alot of moonballers... so my grip started eastern, but gradually drifted more to western and ultimately closer to hawaiian (i could hit my topspin fh/fh slice/serve all from the same grip)... as i hit more and more balls over my head, i'd loop them back...

pro: high heavy balls are tough for opponent too, especially to their bh... high contact was most comfortable
con: low balls were challenging (i would slice them back),... very difficult to hit through the court (mostly looped it back)... personally also found it harder to hit for depth (but that could be a function of practice too)
probably could have stayed with the grip if i mostly played on clay (ala berestegui) where the ball is typically high, and looping balls back is effective...
but i was playing mostly hard court... so i was getting crushed by folks who could take the ball on the rise (harder to take balls on the rise on clay due to bad bounces), and hit through the court..
That makes sense. Still short myself too!
 

nyta2

Professional
reading through this again... some some specific tips:
Three days ago I played a match with a semiwestern grip for the first time. The results surprisingly promising.

My usual fh grip is between eastern and semiwestern.
To recap my story, I never learned a decent forehand as a junior, but reached a high level of play, playing 5.0 level at times, and settling into a 4.5-5.0 level for most of my adult tennis life. My weak forehand was capping my level. However, I developed an excellent slice fh return that allowed me to compete and sometimes win matches against 5.0 players.

During the pandemic, I developed a fairly solid new fh technique that relies on a fixed wrist at contact. My baseline game level shot up a notch, and I started winning everything last year. But that was on hardcourt.

My fixed-wrist forehand is useless here on red clay in South America. So I am starting from scratch trying to learn a full lag forehand that makes it easier to adjust last instant to clay bounces, and easier to generate more racquet speed that helps for clay court tennis.
i imagine on a higher bouncer surface (or opponents that hit higher), a SW > E for high ball contact...
But it’s been a struggle, so I thought maybe I’ve got nothing to lose by trying a stronger grip?

On the plus side, I’ve found that when my semiwestern fh connects with the right timing, it generates a really heavy rally ball that gives my opponents problems. It helps that I’m using a slightly head heavy frame with 375sw that can really club it.

The number one obstacle is that I have tendency to meet the ball too late. My old fh has a contact point further back relative to my stance, and it’s difficult to adjust to a contact point further out in front.
any grip change comes with a contact point change... that is part of what made the change take such a long time...
This becomes harder when I get tired. And my cardio system is working hard in these super hot conditions, so I’m often playing under extreme cardio stress.
yep, hitting out in front means you need to get there earlier... that's probably one reason why slower/less mobile folks love to fh/bh slice so much... very late contact is possible.
in general, aggressive strokes require better movement to get there on time, and conditioning to do it over and over.
The second obstacle is that my grip tends to drift back toward my old grip. So even if I meet the ball with the right contact point, the wrong grip will cause me to launch the fh into the fence.
me too... i built up one side of my grip to give me more feedback when my grip was shifting
try adding a couple strips of doubles sided tape to one of the big bevels... or a penny under the overgrip
will give instant feedback of when your hand is drifting
in general under pressure, my grip always drifted to the old...
The third issue is that as soon as the first two issues start to occur, I start to bail out to the trusty slice too often, passing up opportunities to create offense with the heavy topspin semi drive.
for a year, i spent alot of time losing to folks i beat before, because i just forced myself to keep using the grip i was striving for...
imo you're bailing out to a "safe" slice cuz you're too focused on winning/losing... just trust the process, and focus on solidifying the tools you're trying to develop
On Wednesday, I came within points of upsetting my nemesis for the first time, but I wore down at the end when my new semi grip fh broke down. Lost the set to her 7-5.
more win/loss mentality... how'd you play? personally i'd have rather lost 6-0 if it meant i made progess in whatever area i was trying to get better at...
Then yesterday, I destroyed a 5.0 teaching pro who used to beat me most of the time. Again I started losing the fh feel though when heat exhaustion set in.
amazing you can have that much impact of a completely new grip change in just 3d.
Any tips for reinforcing the right out-in-front contact point and ‘locking in’ the new stronger grip are welcome.
see above. others:
don't switch back to slice...
personally, when i first tried to do a grip change... i played drills with just fh (so i wouldn't have to switch to from bh, then back to finding my new fh grip)
 

Nida

New User
In full disclosure, I don’t have anywhere near the talent of these players, but playing with a lot higher swingweight evens the playing field more than most people realize.
At what swingweight (or how much higher) would we reap the benefits?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
At what swingweight (or how much higher) would we reap the benefits?
If you are 30 sw points higher than your opponent, but equal in skill level, it’s worth about 0.5 ntrp points. In other words, raising from 330 to 360 can bump you from 4.5 to 5.0.

Or it can bump you from Goffin/Fognini/Rublev level to Med/Nadal/Djokovic level.
 

srimes

Rookie
If you are 30 sw points higher than your opponent, but equal in skill level, it’s worth about 0.5 ntrp points. In other words, raising from 330 to 360 can bump you from 4.5 to 5.0.

Or it can bump you from Goffin/Fognini/Rublev level to Med/Nadal/Djokovic level.
Time to hit the gym and pump iron so that I can swing all the lead! I'm trying to hang with someone a level above me. Should I go straight to 400 and try to adapt or slowly work my way up?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Time to hit the gym and pump iron so that I can swing all the lead! I'm trying to hang with someone a level above me. Should I go straight to 400 and try to adapt or slowly work my way up?
There is a science to it. I suggest bumping up 10 at a time and getting adjusted to new wt before you bump up again.

The top 5 guys in the world are in the 360-370 range. (Med, Djok, Nadal, Zverev, and Wawa). They are way above almost everyone else.
 

MoxMonkey

Rookie
If you are 30 sw points higher than your opponent, but equal in skill level, it’s worth about 0.5 ntrp points. In other words, raising from 330 to 360 can bump you from 4.5 to 5.0.

Or it can bump you from Goffin/Fognini/Rublev level to Med/Nadal/Djokovic level.
At the low level I'm at I find this to be true as well. The shot quality and heaviness that I get on clean forehands and velocity on my serve I think have a lot to do with the fact that I use a heavy racquet, well heavier than average anyway, and those strokes will eat up players that are better than I am.
 

srimes

Rookie
There is a science to it. I suggest bumping up 10 at a time and getting adjusted to new wt before you bump up again.

The top 5 guys in the world are in the 360-370 range. (Med, Djok, Nadal, Zverev, and Wawa). They are way above almost everyone else.
iirc I'm around 340 now. Do you still recommend tuning to mgri?
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I feel like a made another step of progress yesterday.

First off, I had a pretty successful week of matches.

Prior to yesterday, I had 4 straight very good match outcomes playing at high level since my initial switch to the new grip. However, my success was driven mostly by my other shots being really good with my current racquet setup. Getting free points on serve. Solid and heavy with my 2hb, strong net play, and reliable fh slice return. My semi drive fh was still the shaky weakest link and I was winning in spite of it by getting ahead in the point early and minimizing need for forehands. Not sure if this was ideal for forehand improvement, but it did improve my confidence level. Because I feel like I’m playing at a high level even without a forehand.

Yesterday I had a back-to-reality score where I lost 1-6, 1-2 to my friend who was formerly a top-1000 level player 6 years ago, but now is out of shape. He still has a special forehand that many ATP guys would envy, a streaky serve, and he has a go-for-broke style that keeps points super short. I didn’t get the chance to test my forehand out much during the match.

But...

I had a great warm-up!

In rallying against his huge heavy forehand, I felt like my new semiwestern forehand was feeling comfortable! I was sending back my own heavy balls pretty consistently, despite having to make contact on the rise on clay. This was a major step for me.
Clearly my friend was impressed in the difference he saw in my forehand. He was used to not seeing much from me on that wing beyond a good slice. He commented that suddenly my forehand has more power, more spin, more confidence.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
I'm only modestly athletic and it took me about 6 weeks to adapt to a SW grip from Eastern. So just keep at it. If you got to 5.0 with minimal teaching you are obviously coordinated enough to develop the motor pathways necessary.

I'd suggest staying out of the racketball court for a while since those balls come back too fast to get the timing of hitting out front.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I'm only modestly athletic and it took me about 6 weeks to adapt to a SW grip from Eastern. So just keep at it. If you got to 5.0 with minimal teaching you are obviously coordinated enough to develop the motor pathways necessary.

I'd suggest staying out of the racketball court for a while since those balls come back too fast to get the timing of hitting out front.
I have an outdoor wall available, but the court surface tiling has come off in places, so I can only do 3 hits in a row before a wild bad bounce kills my wall rhythm. I’ve actually found the wall immensely helpful for my progress this week, as I’ve been using it before and after my match sessions on the clay.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Felt like I took a step backward yesterday.

I couldn’t find the forehand in warm-up. Removed the wrist band, and forehand was better. But with that racquet spec I can’t slice well without the band.

I think the 20.3 MgR/I is right on the edge of being able to keep the lag thru contact. But can’t get lower on this frame with the swingweight getting too high.

It didn’t help that my 6.0 opponent finally started playing like a 6.0. He went into beast mode on me.

Going to find a wall and do some wall testing this weekend.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Felt like I took a step backward yesterday.

I couldn’t find the forehand in warm-up. Removed the wrist band, and forehand was better. But with that racquet spec I can’t slice well without the band.

I think the 20.3 MgR/I is right on the edge of being able to keep the lag thru contact. But can’t get lower on this frame with the swingweight getting too high.

It didn’t help that my 6.0 opponent finally started playing like a 6.0. He went into beast mode on me.

Going to find a wall and do some wall testing this weekend.
It doesn't help to practice with someone above your level when grooving strokes unless they are comfortable with practice rallies back and forth to you.

New stuff usually cracks under pressure.
 

Jake Speeed

Professional
Three days ago I played a match with a semiwestern grip for the first time. The results surprisingly promising.

My usual fh grip is between eastern and semiwestern.
To recap my story, I never learned a decent forehand as a junior, but reached a high level of play, playing 5.0 level at times, and settling into a 4.5-5.0 level for most of my adult tennis life. My weak forehand was capping my level. However, I developed an excellent slice fh return that allowed me to compete and sometimes win matches against 5.0 players.

During the pandemic, I developed a fairly solid new fh technique that relies on a fixed wrist at contact. My baseline game level shot up a notch, and I started winning everything last year. But that was on hardcourt.

My fixed-wrist forehand is useless here on red clay in South America. So I am starting from scratch trying to learn a full lag forehand that makes it easier to adjust last instant to clay bounces, and easier to generate more racquet speed that helps for clay court tennis.

But it’s been a struggle, so I thought maybe I’ve got nothing to lose by trying a stronger grip?

On the plus side, I’ve found that when my semiwestern fh connects with the right timing, it generates a really heavy rally ball that gives my opponents problems. It helps that I’m using a slightly head heavy frame with 375sw that can really club it.

The number one obstacle is that I have tendency to meet the ball too late. My old fh has a contact point further back relative to my stance, and it’s difficult to adjust to a contact point further out in front. This becomes harder when I get tired. And my cardio system is working hard in these super hot conditions, so I’m often playing under extreme cardio stress.

The second obstacle is that my grip tends to drift back toward my old grip. So even if I meet the ball with the right contact point, the wrong grip will cause me to launch the fh into the fence.

The third issue is that as soon as the first two issues start to occur, I start to bail out to the trusty slice too often, passing up opportunities to create offense with the heavy topspin semi drive.

On Wednesday, I came within points of upsetting my nemesis for the first time, but I wore down at the end when my new semi grip fh broke down. Lost the set to her 7-5.

Then yesterday, I destroyed a 5.0 teaching pro who used to beat me most of the time. Again I started losing the fh feel though when heat exhaustion set in.

Any tips for reinforcing the right out-in-front contact point and ‘locking in’ the new stronger grip are welcome.
"destroyed"?? Gee, what about "crushed." :rolleyes:

Tells me a good deal.

I'll tell you this, you can play with grips till the cows come home, but without deep drives, they are of no value.

I've never had a student who was advanced, use the same grip throughout an entire match.
 

TennisProdigy

Professional
So, if I got it right, you beat 5.0 players while tinkering with your FH going back and force between grips within a match? Your real potential must be sky-high, you just need to settle with one solid FH variation and drill it down in practice environment for 3-6 month!
Most people probably don’t even reach 25% of their full potential because they lack the intelligence, determination, time, and/or resources.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Felt like I took a step backward yesterday.

I couldn’t find the forehand in warm-up. Removed the wrist band, and forehand was better. But with that racquet spec I can’t slice well without the band.

I think the 20.3 MgR/I is right on the edge of being able to keep the lag thru contact. But can’t get lower on this frame with the swingweight getting too high.

It didn’t help that my 6.0 opponent finally started playing like a 6.0. He went into beast mode on me.

Going to find a wall and do some wall testing this weekend.
Update.

Found a wall to tune against this weekend.

I ended up peeling off the overgrip to lighten the handle. And adding some more gorilla to the sides and bumper.

This was enough to get the MgR/I low enough that my forehand felt a little better. Swingweight now probably in 380s.

I played against beast mode again on Monday. He was not as sharp as on Friday. I was still not quite finding the forehand, but with the higher swingweight I was able to fend off his heavy blasts better.

I took him to tiebreak this time, and was up 4-2, before he Blade 5 forehand winners to the corners to win the set 7-6.

Then yesterday, I trimmed the wrist band lighter. That did it!
My forehand timing felt nice. 2hb too.

The 380+ sw was a bit too heavy on serve, but I was able to take advantage of my heavy racquet edge in rallies . He was actually not playing poorly. He must have blasted 50 winners into the corners. But anything within my reach I could send back deep. I won 6-4!

Just a week ago I had resigned myself to never beating this guy ever again. But it only took a week to raise my level!

I am entered in a 58-person draw red clay tourney this weekend.
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Update.

Found a wall to tune against this weekend.

I ended up peeling off the overgrip to lighten the handle. And adding some more gorilla to the sides and bumper.

This was enough to get the MgR/I low enough that my forehand felt a little better. Swingweight now probably in 380s.

I played against beast mode again on Monday. He was not as sharp as on Friday. I was still not quite finding the forehand, but with the higher swingweight I was able to fend off his heavy blasts better.

I took him to tiebreak this time, and was up 4-2, before he Blade 5 forehand winners to the corners to win the set 7-6.

Then yesterday, I trimmed the wrist band lighter. That did it!
My forehand timing felt nice. 2hb too.

The 380+ sw was a bit too heavy on serve, but I was able to take advantage of my heavy racquet edge in rallies . He was actually not playing poorly. He must have blasted 50 winners into the corners. But anything within my reach I could send back deep. I won 6-4!

Just a week ago I had resigned myself to never beating this guy ever again. But it only took a week to raise my level!

I am entered in a 58-person draw red clay tourney this weekend.
Have to be careful with high SW racquets as you can get GE from the serve. That said, nothing like weight to counteract heavy balls coming in.
 

MoxMonkey

Rookie
Have to be careful with high SW racquets as you can get GE from the serve. That said, nothing like weight to counteract heavy balls coming in.
I didn't know this. I play with a heavier racquet and am still grooving in a swing. Where do you feel the golfers elbow and how can the serve cause it?
 

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
I didn't know this. I play with a heavier racquet and am still grooving in a swing. Where do you feel the golfers elbow and how can the serve cause it?
On the inside of the elbow or slightly lower on the arm. You can get GE from the forehand too but you usually have enough other stuff supporting the move. The problem is when you increase SW a lot and still try to maintain the same acceleration as with a lower-SW racquet.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
I didn't know this. I play with a heavier racquet and am still grooving in a swing. Where do you feel the golfers elbow and how can the serve cause it?
The times I’ve experienced a twinge of GE on the serve were when testing extended frames. My current frame is actually slightly shorter than 27” and 103” headsize, so extremely elbow friendly with respect to GE.
 

travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Can you elaborate/provide a link for GE and SW relation?
Not GE, but in some specs that have both high sw and high static weight (so high centrifugal force), I have had twinges on the outside of the elbow from the high centrifugal force pulling on the elbow on the deceleration part of the serve.

I also had my friend and at-that-time doubles partner complain about this 15 years ago after I modded his Turbo Shark midplus up to 370sw and about 370g. He is a 5.0. The mod turned him into a beast with huge serve and forehand, but he went back to lower sw after that because of this centrifugal pull issue.
 

happyandbob

Professional
I grew up playing golf and I was a baseball pitcher and never had golfers elbow. I do have intermittent tennis elbow that started after switching to a pure drive and playing with that for 6 months but have never had any pain on the inside of the elbow joint.

About 6 months ago, I switched to an Ezone 100+ and a couple of months in, the inside of my elbow started to get really tender, a place that I never had any pain before. It was especially sore if I was really going after my flat serve. Could be coincidental, and maybe it's related to the stiffness of the Ezone vs the Clash Tour I was moving from, but I believe the extended length definitely played a role.
 
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