OE Top 10 by Peak Level at WTF

[buscemi]

Who would you rate the top 10 by peak level at WTF in the Open Era? Here are who I see as the contenders in alphabetical order, along with their peak performance, if one stands out above the others:

Agassi (beat Edberg in the final, 5-7, 7-6, 7-5, 6-2)
Becker (various)
Borg (1980; beat Lendl in the final, 6-4, 6-2, 6-2)
Connors (1977; beat Borg in the final, 6-4, 1-6, 6-4)
Edberg (1989; beat Becker in the final, 4-6, 7-6, 6-3, 6-1)
Davydenko (2009; beat del Potro in the final, 6-4, 6-4)
Djokovic (various)
Federer (various)
Lendl (various)
Kuerten (2000; beat Agassi in the final, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4)
McEnroe (1984; beat Lendl in the final, 7-5, 6-0, 6-4)
Nalbandian (2005; beat Federer in the final, 6-7, 6-7, 6-2, 6-1, 7-6)
Nastase (1975; beat Borg in the final, 6-2, 6-2, 6-1)
Sampras (various)
Stich (1993; beat Sampras in the final, 7-6, 2-6, 7-6, 6-2)

That's 15. Which 5 do you cut? Would you add anyone I didn't include (like Corretja, Orantes, Hewitt)?

And who's #1? For me, it's Stich in 1993. He beat Sampras in what many would consider Pete's best stretch of tennis that saw him win Wimbledon (1993), the U.S. Open (1993), and the Australian Open (1994). Sampras had already won WTF (1991) and would win it again the following year in 1994.

 

[NAS]

Djokovic 2014 and Lendl 85,86 streamrolled his opponent

 

[NAS]

I think somebody made stats of Yec and Djokovic 2014( inspite of loosing one set) and Lendl one year came out at top.
I just don't remember thread

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

Pete/Becker were the highest I've seen peak wise indoors

 

[NAS]

Pete/Becker were the highest I've seen peak wise indoors

Pete Becker matches was one of the best

 

[buscemi]

Djokovic 2014 and Lendl 85,86 streamrolled his opponent

Looking at those:

Djokovic 2014: RR: beat Wawrinka, 6-3, 6-0; beat Berdych, 6-2, 6-2; beat Cilic, 6-1, 6-1; SF: beat Nishikori, 6-1, 3-6, 6-0; F: w/o over Federer. So, no wins over any great players (Wawrinka comes the closest), lost a set to Nishikori in the SF, and had a walkover in the final. Tough to say he had a super-high peak level from that.

Lendl 1985 (no round robin): 1R: beat Smid, 6-1, 6-0; QF: beat Mayotte, 6-3, 6-3; SF: beat Gomez, 6-4, 7-5; F: beat Becker, 6-2, 7-6, 6-3. So, a really nice win over Becker, but very weak opponents in his first three matches.

Lendl 1986: RR: beat Noah, 6-4, 6-4; beat Gomez, 6-3, 7-5; beat Edberg, 6-3, 6-4; SF: beat Wilander, 6-4, 6-2; F: beat Becker, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4. This is a better collection of opponents, but I don't think it's as dominant as some others, the clearest example being McEnroe in 1984, who beat Lendl, 6-3, 6-4, 6-4 in the final.

 

[Fabresque]

Man’s on here talking about how WTF draws are “weak” when it’s genuinely only the top players in the world playing. You’d think Djokovic was beating Mannarino the way this lot describe slam winners lmao.

 

[buscemi]

Man’s on here talking about how WTF draws are “weak” when it’s genuinely only the top players in the world playing. You’d think Djokovic was beating Mannarino the way this lot describe slam winners lmao.

I used "weak" regarding Lendl's opponents in 1985 before the final. His opponents before the final were:

Smid: #19 in the world. Never made a Major SF.
Mayotte: #12 in the world. Never made a Major final.
Gomez: #15 in the world. Made it past the QF of a Major once, winning the 1990 French Open on clay.

So, yes, I would say Lendl had "weak" pre-final opponents on carpet at WTF 1985.

 

[NAS]

Looking at those:

Djokovic 2014: RR: beat Wawrinka, 6-3, 6-0; beat Berdych, 6-2, 6-2; beat Cilic, 6-1, 6-1; SF: beat Nishikori, 6-1, 3-6, 6-0; F: w/o over Federer. So, no wins over any great players (Wawrinka comes the closest), lost a set to Nishikori in the SF, and had a walkover in the final. Tough to say he had a super-high peak level from that.

Lendl 1985 (no round robin): 1R: beat Smid, 6-1, 6-0; QF: beat Mayotte, 6-3, 6-3; SF: beat Gomez, 6-4, 7-5; F: beat Becker, 6-2, 7-6, 6-3. So, a really nice win over Becker, but very weak opponents in his first three matches.

Lendl 1986: RR: beat Noah, 6-4, 6-4; beat Gomez, 6-3, 7-5; beat Edberg, 6-3, 6-4; SF: beat Wilander, 6-4, 6-2; F: beat Becker, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4. This is a better collection of opponents, but I don't think it's as dominant as some others, the clearest example being McEnroe in 1984, who beat Lendl, 6-3, 6-4, 6-4 in the final.

Cilic won Us Open and played good in Wimbledon, Nishi made us open final defeating Raonic, Stan and Novak in row.
Wawarinka won Ao and MC.
He did loss one set but in set won he was ruthless.
Well I just told about those Yec who were best according to stats which were done in one thread in ttw.
Peak wise I think Becker Pete was great

 

[buscemi]

Cilic won Us Open and played good in Wimbledon, Nishi made us open final defeating Raonic, Stan and Novak in row.
Wawarinka won Ao and MC.
He did loss one set but in set won he was ruthless.
Well I just told about those Yec who were best according to stats which were done in one thread in ttw.
Peak wise I think Becker Pete was great

Beating Cilic/Wawrinka/Berdych/Nishikori is fine, but that quality of opponent (and, of course, no opponent in the final) isn't in the same league of opposition that others faced. For example, in 1991, Sampras played Agassi/Stich/Becker/Lendl/Courier.

 

[abmk]

the top 5 are the top 5 indoors (HC or carpet) in chronological order: Mac, Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Federer.
I mean if we are taking individual years, top 10 would be from these guys only.

but if we have to chose 10 players, then add Nastase, Borg, Djokovic in chronological order

then of course Connors, Stich, Edberg, Agassi, Davy, Nalby, Hewitt, Kuerten etc were all very good.

 

[Pheasant]

McEnroe in 1984 stomped Wilander 6-1, 6-1 in the semis, then curb-stomped Lendl in the final in 3 straight sets, which includes a bagel in the 2nd set. Let's not forget that carpet was arguably Lendl's very best surface. The guy holds the record on that surface with 66 straight wins. Of course, McEnroe is the guy that stopped his winning streak. And McEnroe had his own streak with 65 straight wins.

 

[buscemi]

the top 5 are the top 5 indoors (HC or carpet) in chronological order: Mac, Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Federer.
I mean if we are taking individual years, top 10 would be from these guys only.

but if we have to chose 10 players, then add Nastase, Borg, Djokovic in chronological order

then of course Connors, Stich, Edberg, Agassi, Davy, Nalby, Hewitt, Kuerten etc were all very good.

That top 5 generally seems good b/c those guys only lost WTF finals during their primes to each other, with three exceptions:

2005: Nalbandian beat Federer. This was when Federer was less than 100% due to an ankle injury.​

1989: Edberg beat Becker. I remember this being a bizarre match in which Becker's serve went completely AWOL in sets 3 & 4.​

1993: Stich beat Sampras.​

This last one is tough to explain, other than Stich playing out of his mind, as he was occasionally able to do. As noted, this was during arguably the best stretch of Sampras's career, which included wins at Wimbledon in 1993, the U.S. Open in 1993, and the Australian Open in 1994. It was also the only year that Sampras made it to a WTF final without losing a match, and this was no small feat, as he was winless at Majors against two of the players he beat in the RR stage (losing to Ivanisevic at Wimbledon 1992 and Edberg at the 1992 U.S. Open and the 1993 Australian Open). And, while Medvdev wasn't a hugely formidable SF opponent, Pete still crushed him, 6-3, 6-0, showing both that he was in good form and had plenty of energy for the final.

 

[Pheasant]

That top 5 generally seems good b/c those guys only lost WTF finals during their primes to each other, with three exceptions:

2005: Nalbandian beat Federer. This was when Federer was less than 100% due to an ankle injury.​

1989: Edberg beat Becker. I remember this being a bizarre match in which Becker's serve went completely AWOL in sets 3 & 4.​

1993: Stich beat Sampras.​

This last one is tough to explain, other than Stich playing out of his mind, as he was occasionally able to do. As noted, this was during arguably the best stretch of Sampras's career, which included wins at Wimbledon in 1993, the U.S. Open in 1993, and the Australian Open in 1994. It was also the only year that Sampras made it to a WTF final without losing a match, and this was no small feat, as he was winless at Majors against two of the players he beat in the RR stage (losing to Ivanisevic at Wimbledon 1992 and Edberg at the 1992 U.S. Open and the 1993 Australian Open). And, while Medvdev wasn't a hugely formidable SF opponent, Pete still crushed him, 6-3, 6-0, showing both that he was in good form and had plenty of energy for the final.

Nice callout to Michael Stich. This guy was a very fun player. He reminds me of an earlier version of Safin. Safin had a better return of serve. But Stich had a killer all-court game, which includes a legendary overhand backhand smash. And his 2nd serve was better than anybody not named Sampras.

It's as though this guy sleepwalked until he faced a tough opponent, especially once 1992 rolled around. He'd get dumped by a nobody in the early rounds of tourneys quite often. But once he got deep in a tourney, he was especially dangerous. The guy once beat peak Edberg and peak Becker back to back at Wimbledon. He played Kafelnikov tough in a FO final. It's as though he lived to play guys ranked in the top 3 or so. This guy was always full of surprises. He had a top gear about as good as anybody's. He just rarely hit it.

How many times did Stich even qualify for the WTF? Did he make it more than once? It's funny that he won this tourney in dominating fashion(0 losses), even though he almost never qualified. That just shows that he seemed to increase his level, once he faced top players. This dude was very dangerous against top players.

Again, nice call here. This guy belongs on the list, especially given the fact that he was never never a world #1 type of guy. It's more impressive for a guy with his career ranking to mop up a WTF; especially considering that he beat one of the very best ever at this tourney during his prime.

 

[buscemi]

Nice callout to Michael Stich. This guy was a very fun player. He reminds me of an earlier version of Safin. Safin had a better return of serve. But Stich had a killer all-court game, which includes a legendary overhand backhand smash. And his 2nd serve was better than anybody not named Sampras.

It's as though this guy sleepwalked until he faced a tough opponent, especially once 1992 rolled around. He'd get dumped by a nobody in the early rounds of tourneys quite often. But once he got deep in a tourney, he was especially dangerous. The guy once beat peak Edberg and peak Becker back to back at Wimbledon. He played Kafelnikov tough in a FO final. It's as though he lived to play guys ranked in the top 3 or so. This guy was always full of surprises. He had a top gear about as good as anybody's. He just rarely hit it.

How many times did Stich even qualify for the WTF? Did he make it more than once? It's funny that he won this tourney in dominating fashion(0 losses), even though he almost never qualified. That just shows that he seemed to increase his level, once he faced top players. This dude was very dangerous against top players.

Again, nice call here. This guy belongs on the list, especially given the fact that he was never never a world #1 type of guy. It's more impressive for a guy with his career ranking to mop up a WTF; especially considering that he beat one of the very best ever at this tourney during his prime.

He just made WTF twice (just missed at #9 in 1994). The other year he made it, he was in the group of death w/Sampras, Agassi, and Becker.

Played in the Grand Slam Cup 4 times and made 2 finals, winning once (beating Edberg/Krajicek/Sampras/Chang) and losing once (to Korda, 11-9 in the fifth set).

 

[BeatlesFan]

Djokovic 2014 and Lendl 85,86 streamrolled his opponent

What about Fed destroying Rafa 6-3, 6-0 at 2011 WTF?

 

[NAS]

What about Fed destroying Rafa 6-3, 6-0 at 2011 WTF?

No, no you all are not getting me.
That was great match and Fed destroyed Rafa.
I was posting the year which was great because of stats, somebody in the ttw did this best Yec stats for individuals year and I remember the result so posted the year
But op is right 1991 was better level wise.
I personally like 96,98,2000, 2020 and 2021( for 2021 only semi and final)
Specially 2000 where Guga won Yec beating Sampras and Agassi back to back and claimed number one ranking
For me weakest Yec was 2001,2015,2018,2005,2017 ( 2017 being the worst and weakest line up)

 

[abmk]

No, no you all are not getting me.
That was great match and Fed destroyed Rafa.
I was posting the year which was great because of stats, somebody in the ttw did this best Yec stats for individuals year and I remember the result so posted the year
But op is right 1991 was better level wise.
I personally like 96,98,2000, 2020 and 2021( for 2021 only semi and final)
Specially 2000 where Guga won Yec beating Sampras and Agassi back to back and claimed number one ranking
For me weakest Yec was 2001,2015,2018,2005,2017 ( 2017 being the worst and weakest line up)

05 final saved the YEC.
14 YEC was weaker than 15 YEC. two absolute bloodbaths in the RR and no final. only thing that saves 14 YEC is the semi b/w fed and wawa.
18 wasn't particularly good, but atleast Zverev for once saved his best vs Djokovic.