Of the Big 3 Who has benefited the most from their coaches?

Of the Big 3 who benefited most from the coaches?

  • Federer--he's worked with legends and it shows.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Nadal--family matters. Uncle Toni know his stuff and Moya is virtually Nadal's older brother.

    Votes: 25 40.3%

  • Djokovic--not his off court gurus, but his on court coaches have kept him razor sharp.

    Votes: 37 59.7%
  • Total voters
    62
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
Not looking at their pre-pro years, who benefited the most from their coaches over the years?
I'm leaning towardsw Djokovic over Nadal over Federer.

Federer seemed to be slow and stubborn to make changes. He did make them but they didn't really solve any of his problems vs. Nadal on clay nor give him the upper hand vs. Djoker later in his years. I feel a lot of his drive and style of play came from him more so than his coaches.

Toni Nadal was great for Rafa for years and the switch to Moya did seem to rejuvenate his career.

Djoker seemed to get a lot out of each of his coaches. A lot of support from Vajda, Becker brought him confidence and Goran seems to keep him on track too.
 
Not Federer. He didn't even need them when he was at his best. He got Tony Roche on board to do a job and he failed at that job, he might as well not have bothered.

The great thing about them is that they can all now say they've succeeded working with multiple guys, so it's tough to say any of them benefited significantly more than any of the others, but it'd definitely be Rafa or Novak.
 
Probably Nadal.

I would have put Djokovic down but Pepe actually dealt some damage to his career so I wouldn’t say his coaches have been all positive. The good ones he’s had, though, have been very good.

Federer didn’t rely too much on his coaches during his peak years but once he got older, I think he needed the advice more.
 
Third Serve said:
Probably Nadal.

I would have put Djokovic down but Pepe actually dealt some damage to his career so I wouldn’t say his coaches have been all positive. The good ones he’s had, though, have been very good.

Federer didn’t rely too much on his coaches during his peak years but once he got older, I think he needed the advice more.
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Would be a little alarming if Fed needed Annacone or Ljub to help him retool his game against Roddick and Hewitt.
 
If Nadal would have had Moya from the beginning he probably would have won more slams than 22. . (Toni could be pretty stupid and stubborn with Nadal's gameplans). I always thought he had more strategy under Moya. He was just getting too old by that time and slowed down. . Same as Djokovic without the Love Guru
 
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Really don’t even see how this is a question. Becker helped turn Joker’s career around after he massively underachieved in 2012-2014.
 
Robert F said:
I'm leaning towardsw Djokovic over Nadal over Federer.
Click to expand...

I'd say exactly the opposite with either Nadal and Federer benefiting, then Djo. Though all benefited from strategic coaching changes to add on years of competing and still winning.
 
After a certain age an ATG doesn't hire a coach to give him advice rather than chasing him around and motivate him to do his daily work routine and drink his milk. What could a guy like Ljubicic possibly teach Federer anyway?
 
Tie
1. Uncle Toni taught Nadal how to be a tennis player.
2. Becker taught Djokovic how to win at Wimbledon. Injury free, he still hasn't been beaten there yet.
 
Nadal's coaches have done a lot, Toni with the grounded attitude of not assuming anything and Moya with giving him a fresh perspective and a less grinding style as he aged. Becker and Ivanisevic have been excellent for Djokovic, giving the right mentality for the big occasions and improving the serve. Harder to tell with Federer.

Sampras-Bruguera 1993 said:
If Nadal would have had Moya from the beginning he probably would have won more slams than 22. . (Toni could be pretty stupid and stubborn with Nadal's gameplans). I always thought he had more strategy under Moya. He was just getting too old by that time and slowed down. . Same as Djokovic without the Love Guru
Click to expand...
There's a positive to Toni's approach as well though, i.e. never assume anything, so stay grounded and in the present. This enabled Nadal to be so physically and mentally relentless over the long haul of a match compared to his opponents, by accepting that you must prepare for 7-8 hour marathons if needs be. The negative is that, when Rafa was lower on confidence, he would get too passive and not take risks. Moya got Rafa taking more chances and risks.
 
Djokovic. He’s been very smart with most of his coaches he hired. Vajda, Becker and Goran have all been very positive on improving Novak and worked at different times. Only Agassi didn’t work out but djoko was struggling with injury and off court issues then.

Nadal I’d say is 2nd. As Tio Toni was good for ages but then probably Rafa felt he kept him too long. When he hired Moyà it gave him a 2nd wind and he rose to the top again.

I feel Fed actually didn’t do as well in this department. I don’t really think Annacone or Ivan Ljubicic had the same impact on Fed. They helped a bit but not as much as the coaches that helped djoko or Rafa.
 
Mustard said:
Todd Martin? ;)
Click to expand...
That’s true. That wasn’t the wisest I guess. Back then Djokovic was really struggling with his serve. Back in the 2009 and 2010 days.

Yeah I guess it’s a mixed bag for Novak but of the last 10 years he’s did well overall.

I feel feds coaches didn’t really change to much for him. Rafa only made 1 change but it was massively positive for him.

I guess Rafa for 100% Nadal is best as both Tio Toni and Moyà were great for him at the different times.
 
Djokovic_is_the_best#1 said:
Djokovic. He’s been very smart with most of his coaches he hired. Vajda, Becker and Goran have all been very positive on improving Novak and worked at different times. Only Agassi didn’t work out but djoko was struggling with injury and off court issues then.

Nadal I’d say is 2nd. As Tio Toni was good for ages but then probably Rafa felt he kept him too long. When he hired Moyà it gave him a 2nd wind and he rose to the top again.

I feel Fed actually didn’t do as well in this department. I don’t really think Annacone or Ivan Ljubicic had the same impact on Fed. They helped a bit but not as much as the coaches that helped djoko or Rafa.
Click to expand...
How can Federer do well lol. Before he could ask Boris to join the team our guy snatched him. Boris was mentally tough. Fed needed Boris. Proud of our guy.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
How can Federer do well lol. Before he could ask Boris to join the team our guy snatched him. Boris was mentally tough. Fed needed Boris. Proud of our guy.
Click to expand...
This leads to a good question, would any of their coaches have been beneficial or more beneficial for the other 2 of the big 3.
Really can't see Uncle Toni or Moya being a big help to Fed or Djoker, unless Uncle Toni would be willing to disclose the secret ingredient to the Nadal sauce.
Lundgren might have been helpful for Djoker.
Becker probably has the broadest appeal. Might actually sharpen Fed's attacking game.
 
RF would never align with a guy with a scandalous background like Becker.

You think he becomes a billionaire with Becker ? impossible
 
ibbi said:
Not Federer. He didn't even need them when he was at his best. He got Tony Roche on board to do a job and he failed at that job, he might as well not have bothered.

The great thing about them is that they can all now say they've succeeded working with multiple guys, so it's tough to say any of them benefited significantly more than any of the others, but it'd definitely be Rafa or Novak.
Click to expand...
Federer is the most Most talented, so coaching had the least effect on him, but Roche helped improve his BH.
 
I think I would vote Djokovic for three reasons.

1. He has improved his serve, FH, volleys/approaches and slice shots a lot during the course of his career. You don’t see as much progress on as many shots with the other two. His technique coaches (Vajda?) should be applauded for this.
2. He changes his strategy the most against different opponents in terms of baseline/serve/return tactics and was a pioneer in hiring a stats coach and video analyst CraigO to help him. Nadal does that a lot more under Moya which is part of why he has had a resurgence - unfortunately, Tio Toni doesn’t believe in all this according to his interviews and I think he held Nadal back from winning more for a few years after 2010. Federer in contrast never changed his strategy much for different opponents or matches once he became a power baseliner.
3. Djokovic was too passive from the baseline in 2012-2014 and I think Becker helped him a lot to play more aggressively in the 2nd week of Slams including in finals. He also helped to improve his serve.

It is not clear to me how much Goran has contributed to Djokovic - maybe he has helped to drive Djokovoc to shorten points with more aggressive serving and net play. Federer probably benefited the least form his coaches which may explain why he was on his own without a traveling coach for many stretches of his career. I think if Federer had worked with a coach to improve his BH drive and returns earlier in his career (as much as Djokovic worked on his weaknesses) and also had a coach who looked at stats, analyzed opponent videos etc. and came up with slightly different tactics to beat Djokovic and Nadal in particular tournaments, I think he could have won a lot more than he did.

Djokovic also is a pioneer in using anti-inflammatory diets, new recovery routines and emphasizing flexibility routines including yoga way more than other top players used to do. Is this the influence from his physios and other trainers or did he he come up with it on his own? If it is from the influence of his secondary coaches, then this is another reason to pick him as the player who benefited the most from his coaching team.
 
Biotic said:
...

Benefited the most from illegal coaching? Surely Nadal.
Click to expand...
You are wrong. This is who did:

FwR_GaFXgAcopva
 
Biotic said:
Hi, Nadal fanatic!

You are wrong as usual.

https://www.tennis.com/news/articles/uncle-toni-i-talk-to-rafa-during-matches#.UeQyfNJ9vh5
Click to expand...
Hi, Djoko fanatic! It's useless to deny that B.Becker coached Djoko during matches.
As for Toni, you referred to something that was taken out of context.

The Guardian: ¤¤ Toni Nadal: "I say things like pay attention, come on, move your legs, but nothing else."¤¤

There is a big difference between using hand signals to coach a player during a match (that's what coach B.Becker did) and just saying to a player "vamos; move your legs; pay attention" that actually isn't coaching.
www.theguardian.com

Wimbledon 2015: Rafael Nadal’s coach says it’s good to talk during play

Rafael Nadal’s coach, his uncle Toni, said it is impossible not to encourage his player from the sidelines
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
octobrina10 said:
Hi, Djoko fanatic! It's useless to deny that B.Becker coached Djoko during matches.
As for Toni, you referred to something that was taken out of context.

The Guardian: ¤¤ Toni Nadal: "I say things like pay attention, come on, move your legs, but nothing else."¤¤

There is a big difference between using hand signals to coach a player during a match (that's what coach B.Becker did) and just saying to a player "vamos; move your legs; pay attention" that actually isn't coaching.
www.theguardian.com

Wimbledon 2015: Rafael Nadal’s coach says it’s good to talk during play

Rafael Nadal’s coach, his uncle Toni, said it is impossible not to encourage his player from the sidelines
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
Hi, Nadal fanatic!

Stop cheating the readers!

It's futile to try to wiggle your way out, Toni's illegal coaching is well documented throughout the past 20 years, and even here he clearly said: "i know that it’s not allowed". Nothing was taken out of context as you falsely stated.

Goodbye Nadal fanatic!
 
socallefty said:
I think I would vote Djokovic for three reasons.

1. He has improved his serve, FH, volleys/approaches and slice shots a lot during the course of his career. You don’t see as much progress on as many shots with the other two. His technique coaches (Vajda?) should be applauded for this.
2. He changes his strategy the most against different opponents in terms of baseline/serve/return tactics and was a pioneer in hiring a stats coach and video analyst CraigO to help him. Nadal does that a lot more under Moya which is part of why he has had a resurgence - unfortunately, Tio Toni doesn’t believe in all this according to his interviews and I think he held Nadal back from winning more for a few years after 2010. Federer in contrast never changed his strategy much for different opponents or matches once he became a power baseliner.
3. Djokovic was too passive from the baseline in 2012-2014 and I think Becker helped him a lot to play more aggressively in the 2nd week of Slams including in finals. He also helped to improve his serve.

It is not clear to me how much Goran has contributed to Djokovic - maybe he has helped to drive Djokovoc to shorten points with more aggressive serving and net play. Federer probably benefited the least form his coaches which may explain why he was on his own without a traveling coach for many stretches of his career. I think if Federer had worked with a coach to improve his BH drive and returns earlier in his career (as much as Djokovic worked on his weaknesses) and also had a coach who looked at stats, analyzed opponent videos etc. and came up with slightly different tactics to beat Djokovic and Nadal in particular tournaments, I think he could have won a lot more than he did.

Djokovic also is a pioneer in using anti-inflammatory diets, new recovery routines and emphasizing flexibility routines including yoga way more than other top players used to do. Is this the influence from his physios and other trainers or did he he come up with it on his own? If it is from the influence of his secondary coaches, then this is another reason to pick him as the player who benefited the most from his coaching team.
Click to expand...
One of those posts that make reading TTW worthy.

It's definitely Novak, two other ATGs credit to their coaches, each did great job in their own way , but didn't have Jelena Gencic maginificent illuminating personality , athlete, cultural worker ,scholar of multicultural background whose life path crossed with little Novak.Lady was one of those people enriching lives of others .
She was the one taught young Novak to stretch before and after each practice -
Recently Kovacevic who had honour to spent some time practicing with Novak in US ,said he prepares for practice for whole h.

On 10th anniversary of Mrs. Jelena Gencic death , Novak &I believe many of his supporters fondly remember her. Personally , it's her I'm most thankful for giving us one of the best athletes that ever lived,





Ps. After seeing Novak using data analytics RF decided the same , but
he did it like most things ( e.g .fitness training) confidentially. Craig O' mentioned it few years ago.
 
Holmes said:
Would be a little alarming if Fed needed Annacone or Ljub to help him retool his game against Roddick and Hewitt.
Click to expand...
Lollll to be fair, he did kinda need to retool his game against Hewitt early on. Before 2003 he was one of the many serve-and-volleyers that Hewitt was built to destroy.
 
LaVie en Rose said:
One of those posts that make reading TTW worthy.

It's definitely Novak, two other ATGs credit to their coaches, each did great job in their own way , but didn't have Jelena Gencic maginificent illuminating personality , athlete, cultural worker ,scholar of multicultural background whose life path crossed with little Novak.Lady was one of those people enriching lives of others .
She was the one taught young Novak to stretch before and after each practice -
Recently Kovacevic who had honour to spent some time practicing with Novak in US ,said he prepares for practice for whole h.

On 10th anniversary of Mrs. Jelena Gencic death , Novak &I believe many of his supporters fondly remember her. Personally , it's her I'm most thankful for giving us one of the best athletes that ever lived,





Ps. After seeing Novak using data analytics RF decided the same , but
he did it like most things ( e.g .fitness training) confidentially. Craig O' mentioned it few years ago.
Click to expand...
Thank you Jelena.
 
LaVie en Rose said:
One of those posts that make reading TTW worthy.

It's definitely Novak, two other ATGs credit to their coaches, each did great job in their own way , but didn't have Jelena Gencic maginificent illuminating personality , athlete, cultural worker ,scholar of multicultural background whose life path crossed with little Novak.Lady was one of those people enriching lives of others .
She was the one taught young Novak to stretch before and after each practice -
Recently Kovacevic who had honour to spent some time practicing with Novak in US ,said he prepares for practice for whole h.

On 10th anniversary of Mrs. Jelena Gencic death , Novak &I believe many of his supporters fondly remember her. Personally , it's her I'm most thankful for giving us one of the best athletes that ever lived,





Ps. After seeing Novak using data analytics RF decided the same , but
he did it like most things ( e.g .fitness training) confidentially. Craig O' mentioned it few years ago.
Click to expand...
Is this the lady who gave Novak lessons as a boy and knew he would be a future world no. 1?
 
Holmes said:
Is this the lady who gave Novak lessons as a boy and knew he would be a future world no. 1?
Click to expand...
Yes, she was also first coach of Seles, Ivanisevic , Majoli..
She taught young Novak power of visualsation, from matterials available they made Wimbledon trophy and Novak imagining he raises it in his hands one day...
 
Biotic said:
Hi, Nadal fanatic!

Stop cheating the readers!

It's futile to try to wiggle your way out, Toni's illegal coaching is well documented throughout the past 20 years, and even here he clearly said: "i know that it’s not allowed". Nothing was taken out of context as you falsely stated.

Goodbye Nadal fanatic!
Click to expand...
Hi, Djoko fanatic! I posted facts.
 
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