Of the players who never won Wimbledon how would you rank them in just grass ability

[illusions30]

This seems like a better topic than the best player to never win Wimbledon which seemed to create alot of confusion. Of the women who never won Wimbledon how would you rank them purely in grass ability (nothing else, just grass) from best downwards. Here would be mine:

1. Mandilikova- I put her #1 over Henin as I believe she was a slightly more natural grass court player, even though their Wimbledon records are very similar.

2. Henin- I thought of putting her #1 though as for a moment I thought she was more competitive with the 2 Williams than Hana was with Navratilova and Evert (Evert a weaker grass courter than the 2 Williams) on grass, but then I remembered Hana has a win over Martina and a win over Chris on grass. Henin only has a win over Serena, and best she did vs Venus was a 3 set loss eating a fat bagel to end it off in the 2001 final.

3-tied. Shriver- really a grass specialist. Never had much hope of a Wimbledon final playing against Steffi, Navratilova, and Evert though.

3-tied. Sukova- great grass court player, even if underachieved badly at Wimbledon. Not sure how to rank her vs Pam exactly. Sukova probaly had higher potential but never brought it to Wimbledon.

5. Sanchez Vicario- Mostly based on her amazing match in the 95 final. Did well to defend finals next year, but what a cakewalk path to final.

6. Sabatini- Maybe should have her higher. Quite good Wimbledon record, and came very close to winning 91 title. Was a good grass court player for alot longer than Sanchez but IMO ranks below Sanchez since she never did a performance to match Sanchez's in 95 final. 91 final vs same opponent which she nearly won, was far lower quality match and she choked to lose it unlike Sanchez in the 95 final who in no way choked.

7. Turnbull- several good performances at Australian Open on grass, and some decent ones at Wimbledon.

8. Casals- a couple U.S Open finals on grass.

9. Capriati- many semis and quarters at Wimbledon, good grass court player. Wins at Wimbledon over Serena and Navratilova.

10. Seles- not a grass court player, but did make 1 Wimbledon final and win one Eastborne. Put her top 10 mostly as I ran out of people, and had to put someone.

 

[kiki]

I basically concur.But, as I posted elsewhere, you need two lists, one for each kind of grass.

On current grass, Henin,Seles and Sanchez ( maybe even Sabatini ) could have won the title.On old grass, none of them would take a set from Hana, provided Hana played her 75%.

If she played like those 5-6 times she reached her appex, well, that places her in the top 5-6 ever.

 

[illusions30]

I basically concur.But, as I posted elsewhere, you need two lists, one for each kind of grass.

On current grass, Henin,Seles and Sanchez ( maybe even Sabatini ) could have won the title.On old grass, none of them would take a set from Hana, provided Hana played her 75%.

If she played like those 5-6 times she reached her appex, well, that places her in the top 5-6 ever.

That is true. The two different types of grass should probably be seperated.

I also agree Seles would have been way better on the current grass than the old slick grass of her era.

 

[NLBwell]

Interesting list.
I think I'd put Seles much higher than you have her, but good work.

 

[illusions30]

Interesting list.
I think I'd put Seles much higher than you have her, but good work.

Well I dont see how Seles can be higher or even near players like Sabatini and Sanchez when you compare their Wimbledon records.

Seles- 1 final (lost 6-2, 6-1)
Sanchez- 2 finals (lost 7-5 in 3rd and 6-3, 7-5), 1 other semi
Sabatini- 1 final (lost 8-6 in 3rd), 3 other semis

Considering Sanchez and Sabatini only are mid top 10 in best grass courters to not win Wimbledon (I probably overanked Sanchez based on her 95 Wimbledon performance which shouldnt override the rest of her mostly mediocre grass career), Seles would be bottom top 10 somewhere at best. Remember this is "best grass player" only, nothing else about their abilities except grass and grass alone.

 

[BTURNER]

This seems like a better topic than the best player to never win Wimbledon which seemed to create alot of confusion. Of the women who never won Wimbledon how would you rank them purely in grass ability (nothing else, just grass) from best downwards. Here would be mine:

1. Mandilikova- I put her #1 over Henin as I believe she was a slightly more natural grass court player, even though their Wimbledon records are very similar.

2. Henin- I thought of putting her #1 though as for a moment I thought she was more competitive with the 2 Williams than Hana was with Navratilova and Evert (Evert a weaker grass courter than the 2 Williams) on grass, but then I remembered Hana has a win over Martina and a win over Chris on grass. Henin only has a win over Serena, and best she did vs Venus was a 3 set loss eating a fat bagel to end it off in the 2001 final.

3. Sanchez Vicario- I put her here based on her amazing 95 final vs one of the grass GOATs in the 95 final. Plus back to back finals of Wimbledon, even though her 96 draw to the final makes me laugh.

4. Shriver- really a grass specialist. Never had much hope of a Wimbledon final playing against Steffi, Navratilova, and Evert though.

5. Sukova- great grass court player, even if underachieved badly at Wimbledon.

6. Sabatini- Maybe should have her higher. Quite good Wimbledon record, and came very close to winning 91 title.

7. Turnbull- several good performances at Australian Open on grass, and some decent ones at Wimbledon.

8. Casals- a couple U.S Open finals on grass.

9. Capriati- many semis and quarters at Wimbledon, good grass court player. Wins at Wimbledon over Serena and Navratilova.

10. Seles- not a grass court player, but did make 1 Wimbledon final and win one Eastborne. Put her top 10 mostly as I ran out of people, and had to put someone.

Remember that Sukova beat Evert once on grass (damn near took her down at wimbledon in Qf '86), and Navratilova twice on grass reaching the final of Aussie and winning 87 Eastbourne in the process. She is one of only 4 women to beat Evert and Navratilova back-to back . Both victories over Martina broke winning streaks. That puts her ahead of both Shriver and Sanchez in my opinion. I sure can't see either of those two doing that, and I have my doubts about Henin.

 

[illusions30]

Remember that Sukova beat Evert once on grass (damn near took her down at wimbledon in Qf '86), and Navratilova twice on grass reaching the final of Aussie and winning 87 Eastbourne in the process. She is one of only 4 women to beat Evert and Navratilova back-to back . Both victories over Martina broke winning streaks. That puts her ahead of both Shriver and Sanchez in my opinion. I sure can't see either of those two doing that, and I have my doubts about Henin.

That is good point. Perhaps #3 is a more appropriate rank for Sukova. I already admitted I probably overrated Sanchez based on 1 great Wimbledon and 1 amazing Wimbledon match vs Steffi (although in fairness Steffi probably had to be off to allow a Sanchez type on grass to have an amazing match, and had she played like the 2nd set it wouldnt have been allowed to be so, so I probably overrate Sanchez and the impact of her performance in that match).

However when it comes to Shriver I gave her the edge on Sukova for two big reasons. Her Wimbledon record is alot better than Sukova who never went past the quarters and often lost early, while Pam was in the semis atleast three times and rarely lost early. They played in roughly (though not entirely) the same era. Also her head to head with Sukova both on grass and in general which is so one sided in her favor.

Beating Navratilova and Evert back to back is very impressive, although in 1987 Evert was already really starting to slow down, and Martina though arguably still in her prime was mostly a slam only player that year (perhaps feeling that was her best strategy to counter rising Steffi). Still that could be enough to push her higher on my list than I have her.

How would you rate the difficulty of beating both Serena and Venus on grass in one event to beating both Martina and Chris in one event on grass? Either way it wouldnt matter I guess as Justine never achieved the former anyhow (her best chance was Wimbledon 2007 but she blew that). Hana also never beat Chris and Martina on grass in one event that I know of, although being that she has done it on hard courts, I am sure the ability to do it on grass was there. I agree no way Shriver was doing that, and I somewhat doubt Sanchez on grass doing it either.



Anyway I have adjusted my rankings slightly and will do so again if anyone gives me a valid reason why I should alter any of the others. Feel free to make your own lists btw even if they are completely different from mine.

 

[kiki]

who outserved and volleyed Navratilova on grass? Hana
who outtouched Evonne on grass? Hana
who outrallied Evert and Austin on clay? Hana
who outforehanded Stefi at RG? Hana
who beat herself more often than her rivals? Hana

she did everything, including beating herself too often.

Hana Mandlikova´s worst HtH was against..Hana Mandlikova