Official 2022 ratings thread.
- Thread starter J011yroger
- Start date
schmke
Legend
Official 2022 ratings thread.
I've never heard that players who go to nationals can't appeal. Did you learn that from a back channel or is that explicitly stated somewhere? Stated in the USTA League regulations: 2.07 CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYERS. A championship player’s computer rating achieved as a result of play in National...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Typically sometime between 12/1-12/15.
cks
Hall of Fame
USTA should publish the new NTRP computer ratings for 2023 on 12/1/2022. The Capital Area Tennis Association (CATA) schedule shows that CATA will not release USTA team numbers for Winter session until after the new ratings are released on 12/1/2022.
Stratotanker
Semi-Pro
!<-_->!
Hall of Fame
Is it possible for your rating to improve after a year of inactivity. While I know tennisrecord is not meant to be accurate, I did notice between earlier in the year and now, my rating has gone up. I haven't been active at all in USTA this year. Haven't played a match since last summer.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
TR rating can go up or down a bit, depending on the match ratings that drop out of your average.
!<-_->!
Hall of Fame
Ah, ok. That makes sense. Guess I'm just being impatient and seeing what my rating might be for next year. Granted my rating should expire this year and I'd have to re-rate next year.
Typically, do I just end up w/ the same rating I had previously for those who have experienced having to re-rate after their rating expires.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I’ve had to re-self-rate a few times. But it’s my understanding that you need to self-rate at whatever your most recent rating was, so it’s not really a self-rating.
!<-_->!
Hall of Fame
Oh. That's disappointing then.
In that process, do you go through the same questionnaire or is it a different version where they just ask what your previous rating was?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
It simply asks you to self-rate. I don’t recall having to redo the questionnaire. And if you try to self-rate lower than your most recent computer rating, it auto-rejects it.
!<-_->!
Hall of Fame
Got it, thanks. Quite the silly system then.
You get the same questionnaire. Since the self-rating is linked to your account, the system knows what your previous rating was, and your minimum self-rating level at the end of the questionnaire will not be lower than your last expired rating. If you want to self-rate lower than your last expired rating, you have to fill out the self-rating appeal questionnaire, which is more detailed than the basic self-rating form and gives you the opportunity to provide freeform explanations for your answers. That will be reviewed by a committee of actual people instead of just evaluated by the computer, and they may or may not accept the appeal.
NumbersGuy
Rookie
An interesting though rare situation is where the self-rating form gives you a rating higher than your last published rating. As an example, say you graduate from a D1 team, self-rate 5.5 as you should, then get a 5.0C rating at the end of the year. You don’t play for 3 years, so your rating expires. When you re-self-rate, the system gives you a 5.5 because you’re not yet 30. You then have to appeal it, which will probably be granted, but it’s an extra step.
Yeah, it's just one more step, but that's one that should be easy to grant since the self-rating didn't change and he earned a 5.0C despite a 5.5 minimum last time. A more interesting situation is where a kid registers in high school (say as a 3.5 or 4.0) and gets a YE rating, then decides to walk on to the team in college (presumably D2/3, not D1) and earns a lower lineup spot (like 5 or 6) by the end of his college career, then goes to self-rate to play USTA league after college. He'll get a 5.0 based on D3 varsity experience with a 3.5 or 4.0 previous C rating. If he appeals that, it's a much harder decision. Appeal to 4.5 probably should be OK, especially if there is no or only a limited 5.0 league. Appeal to 4.0 to his previous level? That's a stretch.
NumbersGuy
Rookie
I think it very unlikely that the guy in your example could successfully appeal below 5.0, as his college experience came after the league results. But, it’s just one more place where differences between the personal views of Section committees can cause inconsistencies between Sections. I certainly don't think (or hope, anyway) that a shortage of 5.0 playing opportunities would cause a Section to grant an appeal to 4.5 if it is not otherwise deserved.
Vox Rationis
Professional
I feel like this happens often in every section I've seen.
!<-_->!
Hall of Fame
Do you get an option to select the appeal self rate questionable at the time of re rating?
Moon Shooter
Hall of Fame
Does the auto appeal threshold change if you have been out for 3 years and are self rating again as compared to if you just tried to auto appeal right away?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The auto appeal threshold is kept top secret, so nobody knows except for those who bribe their league coordinators.
Yes.
There is no auto appeal for self-rating. If you're self-rating, regardless of whether it's for the first time ever or re-rating after your rating expires, the only appeal available is the self-rating appeal, which is a separate questionnaire reviewed by a committee. That committee will likely look at your expired dynamic rating as part of their review process, but there are no hard and fast rules as to who they must accept or reject.
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
If you are rated 4.5 during fall trilevel, but get bumped down to 4.0 January 1, can you compete in trilevel nationals as a 4.0?
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
I don’t know, but you’d probably get crushed at nationals because the peeps who make it mostly 4.5s wearing 4.0 gear.
The answer to this is yes, you can. If you get bumped down, you can immediately start playing at the lower level. We have early start mixed here, and there are always a couple players who get bumped down, and their ratings are revised on the roster immediately.
The better question is how are you going to get bumped down without losing since you are on a nationals caliber team?
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
schmke
Legend
I do perform my own year-end calculations and a rating can move up or down a bit, but more most players it isn't a large amount.
How would one know if they're on the border of being bumped?
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
Estimate based on tennis record
Give schmke $$$ to run a report.
TennisHokie
New User
This can happen with Tri-Level teams, especially if you had a mixed rating or T rating throughout the year....So you can sign up for an early start league and then get a rating before Tri-Level nationals
loveallcats
Rookie
What is considered "on the border" for being bumped? I'm predicted at 4.08 on TR.
TennisHokie
New User
I have a question about year end ratings and how they affect leagues that are not "early start" but played in 2021 for the 2022 year. Example Team A played in December of 2021 and played combinations that for ratings in 2021 would be allowed, however, after the ratings came out - some of those players got bumped, but for State competition they still played the rating they had at the start of the league...So since it wasn't an early start league, how is that possible? Wouldn't it be just like if you played a league and got a mid season bump? Anyone seen this before?
@schmke any insights?
@schmke any insights?
Sections do this differently. Some do, some don’t. Without specific league information no one can tell you what’s allowed. I would check the rules for that league.
TennisHokie
New User
This would be for Southern Section Georgia - Looks like they have a fall league and a summer league, but it doesn't denote the fall league as "early start" per say.
It is an early start league even if they don't call it that. In Southern, they allow them to play at the early start level through sectionals. They just can't go to nationals.
It sucks and GA shouldn't be able to do ESLs. It isn't a court availability thing, it's just giving them multiple seasons.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
For that range, anything between 3.9 and 4.1 is a maybe bump. Above 4.1 or below 3.9 is likely to stay the same.
Although, TR has been off by way more than that before too.
Unfrozen Caveman
Rookie
I am rated 4.5 but have not played a league match since the summer of 2020. I have attempted to appeal down to a 4.0 several times unsuccessfully. When the computer ratings are completed next month, is it possible that my auto appeal down will be successful?
No. And even if your rating goes away there is no guarantee they’ll approve your appeal.
My wife’s appeal got rejected after she re self rated. But you may have better luck if there aren’t any 4.5 leagues near you.
Unfrozen Caveman
Rookie
At what point does my age, 53, help me appeal down successfully? I was 1-7 in 2020. There is plenty of overlap between lower level 4.5s and higher level 4.0s. It is ridiculous that the USTA seems to have an extremely narrow window in which a player can successfully appeal down.
Unfrozen Caveman
Rookie
My understanding is that in 2020 the USTA changed the calculation (expanded the window of results) to get more data because of COVID. If that is true, wouldn't going back to the traditional methodology potentially change my rating even though I've been idle?
schmke
Legend
Your play from 2020 would have been included in the 2021 year-end ratings that were published. If you were a 4.5 then and tried the auto-appeal and haven't been successful, continuing to appeal without more matches won't result in a different outcome. I'm not aware of anything the USTA does to retroactively go back and redo anything in prior years once year-end ratings are published.
Unless ...
A few years ago the appeal criteria were changed, and I know of someone that clicked the appeal button repeatedly and did have it granted. This was not because their rating changed and they became eligible, but rather because the new criteria was programmed into TennisLink and when the player's same prior year-end rating was evaluated, they then became eligible.
silverwyvern4
Semi-Pro
If your year end dynamic rating is 4.01 and you're in appeal range, Can you play 4.5 league for 6 months and have active dynamic rating around 4.40 and then decide to appeal down? Or will your 4.40 active dynamic rating supersede your 4.01 year end dynamic rating for appeals?
schmke
Legend
My understanding is the appeal would be granted.
Have you tried a written appeal, or anything beyond just clicking the auto-appeal button? If you have legitimate reasons like aging, injury, medical condition, no 4.5 leagues in your area, etc., then it's possible an official reading your appeal would grant it. That said, I don't think your age alone can be the only reason until age 60 or higher:
According to USTA Regulation 2.05E(2), any player who is 60 years of age or older prior to, or during, the calendar year I which such a player plays their first local league match and has achieved the same rating level or lower for their three most recent Year-End Ratings, without benefit of appeal of the player’s Year-End rating, will be granted an appeal (A) rating if promoted.
All players age 65 or over, if promoted, will automatically be granted an appeal (A) rating of their current rating back to their previous valid Year-End rating.
Players that are 70 and over, based on the actual date of the appeal and their birth date, and who are eligible based on rating in hundredths (the specific thresholds are not disclosed) and who have not appealed their rating in the last 3 years may appeal their rating automatically, using the online appeal link in TennisLink.
(copied from here: https://www.usta.com/en/home/play/adult-tennis/programs/national/usta-league-faqs.html#/Appeals)
Unfrozen Caveman
Rookie
I emailed the area director yesterday but have not heard back. I read a Q&A on the USTA site that said, in part: "players that had at least 3 matches in 2020 and have generated at least 3 dynamic ratings may contact their Section to request a review."
What does it mean to generate at least 3 dynamic ratings?
I had 8 matches in 2020.
If you got a C-rating at the end of 2021, then you must have generated at least 3 dynamic ratings. A match will generate a dynamic rating if it is a national same-gender USTA league (i.e. not mixed and not some local-only league), and if your opponent(s) and partner had played enough to have their own rating at the time.
