often said 'you only get better by playing better players', is it true:?))

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
'you only get better by playing better players', is it true:?
Having a good balance is the key.
If you are always playing with better players, you have less pressure (so you lose some key mental skills to win a match). You lose out a lot on your offensive skills, since you end up being on defense most of the time. But you "falsely" will feel like you are playing better (even when losing all the time... with excuses like I got to duece on a lot of games even though I lost 0-6).

It is optimal to have at least 50% of the time you play with players at your same level (you have 50% chance of winning).
You should also try to include 20% better level than you and 20% lower level than you.... the rest 10% can be variable (and play with whoever you can get).
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Not if they mop the floor with you.

Slightly better, yes.
Score doesn't always correlate with practice gain. The key is always purposeful practice. My best singles set lately ended with a bagel. It all depends on how well you execute towards your goal. Constantly getting beaten up by stronger players can affect confidence though. Most people measure the success of practice with score.
 

Pass750

Professional
Better players expose your weaknesses, equal or lesser players don’t. If you care about your game you are then forced to improve your weaknesses. You also see strategies, tactics and shots you don’t see against lesser players, this will help you also.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
lesser players don’t.
This is a big misconcept. Of course better players expose your weakness in some areas. But weaker players expose your weakness on other areas.
Yes, it is a weakness, to hit the ball out wide when dealing with that short shanked ball from your opponent.

Infact it is very common to see the rec players do close to their ceiling on defense, but a lot worse than their ceiling on offense. This is one of the reasons many struggle against pushers, even when they are placed in offensive positions a lot (even though arguably the pusher maybe at a higher level... still it is a weakness on offense).

Again it is critical to have the right balance. In my opinion the optimal is 50/20/20/10 as I described above.
 
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johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
This is a big misconcept. Of course better players expose your weakness in some areas. But weaker players expose your weakness on other areas.
Yes, it is a weakness, to hit the ball out wide on that short shanked ball from your opponent.

Infact it is very common to see the rec players do close to their ceiling on defense, but a lot worse than their ceiling on offense. This is one of the reasons many struggle against pushers, even when they are placed in offensive positions a lot (even though arguably the pusher maybe at a higher level... still it is a weakness on offense).

Again it is critical to have the right balance. In my opinion the optimal is 50/20/20/10 as I described above.
High percentage offense is intrinsically more difficult to build in singles. After seeing UTR 9+ players making the same mistakes as I do, I'm telling myself to be patient with developing offense game. It's just harder than it looks.
 

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
Don't fall into the trap of "avoid playing with lower level players". It definitely helps to boost your "ego", but not your game.
But yes, definitely go play with "some" better level players also.
 

forzamr_b

Rookie
If I were to break it down to percentages, I’ll keep the mix to this:
  • 10% too good for me (i.e typically beaten 0, 1, or 2)
  • 10% too good for opponent (as above)
  • 30% slightly better than me (i.e. typically beaten 3 or 4)
  • 20% slightly better than opponent
  • 30% evenly matched
 

Pass750

Professional
This is a big misconcept. Of course better players expose your weakness in some areas. But weaker players expose your weakness on other areas.
Yes, it is a weakness, to hit the ball out wide when dealing with that short shanked ball from your opponent.

Infact it is very common to see the rec players do close to their ceiling on defense, but a lot worse than their ceiling on offense. This is one of the reasons many struggle against pushers, even when they are placed in offensive positions a lot (even though arguably the pusher maybe at a higher level... still it is a weakness on offense).

Again it is critical to have the right balance. In my opinion the optimal is 50/20/20/10 as I described above.
Good points, I thought it, didn’t write it. Lesser players who hit a lot of short balls expose the weakness of players who can’t put away short balls.
 

good_jello

New User
Disagree. You need a mix of good, worse, and evenly matched players to get better and the more variety you experience, the more fun the sport becomes too.

Against better players, you're primarily working your defensive and neutral skills. You're probably not going to hit many aggressive approach shots against much better players and you're probably spending most of your effort staying in the point.

Against worse players, you're dealing with more junky balls or balls that have no pace that require you to generate your own pace to win. If they're fast and consistent, these players make you practice your net game to win.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Most people aren't self-actualized enough in their tennis to get the full value out of it and reflect on needed improvements.

EDIT TO ADD: Though getting their butts handed to them by a better player is an awakening many times, but you also see a fair share of those players STILL believing they are somehow better (in the loss) and making excuses instead of improvements.
 

nyta2

Legend
every now n then heard ppl saying 'you only get better by playing better players', is it true:?))8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B.......
33% slightly below level - let's you work on new things... for example, back in the day, when learning to volley, i would call all the guys i used to beat 2,2 out rallying them from behind the baseline, and just s&v, c&c against them... even if it meant losing to them in the short term (also have played matches where i only sliced, or moonballed, or dink&lob, only attack their fh, etc...)
33% same level - let's me work on my game (particularly pattern play), including incorporating tactics i have newly developed mastery over (eg. when do i s&v against same level players)... use this range to see different styles of players approximately my level
33% above level - let's me see what where my holes are and/or let me see what weapons i need to work on... if however if i stay in this range all the time, i will likely develop an overly defensive game (less/no opportunities to attack)... since i miostly experienced this in tournaments, it was also a range where i was acllimating to the tournament style match play
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
If you are in your first 2-3 years of starting tennis, you should take lessons and practice with purposeful drills a lot more than you should play matches. You need to develop a solid foundation of footwork and technique or else your ceiling will be low. Play enough matches to have fun and to learn how to withstand match pressure/stress/tension etc. including adjusting to different opponents. But if the bulk of your tennis is matchplay early, you are just going to be grooving bad technique/footwork before you have developed your fundamentals. You are not going to develop fundamentals during this stage just by playing matches against better players.

After a few years, you can play more matches than practice, but if you are trying to develop specific shots, footwork, patterns, consistency, higher pace, higher spin etc., you still need practice drills including off feeds that are geared towards that specific objective. Playing points without serves all the time is not really going to help much either and this is what many players do in their ‘practice‘ sessions.

Playing matches against a mix of worser, at-level and better players is good throughout your tennis life as you need to improve offense, defense, generate your own pace, counterpunch, know how to win without intensity drops, know how to execute on the threshold of winning on big points, know how to keep fighting even when slightly overmatched, put away easy balls without missing, play against different styles at different levels etc.
 

TennisCJC

Legend
You want a mix of better, equal and weaker opponents.

Play better players to expose your weaknesses and challenge yourself.

Play equal players to learn to compete in close matches.

Play weaker players to learn to execute and learn to win when you should win.

If you play exclusively better players, you may not learn how to compete well and close out matches. If gives you a cop out to think "I lost 6-3, but the level was high". You don't want to be that player who loses to "weaker" players and thinks "they didn't hit it good enough for me to execute my great strokes", instead you want to learn how to execute your great strokes on weaker balls.
 
Ball Speed is one of the biggest things. When you jump up in level, especially levels above UTR6, the ball speed increases significantly at each jump. Your footwork habits and visual habits are going to be tested in a way that they simply aren't at slower ball speeds. For example, if you want, you can NEVER split step at UTR 5 and below and pretty much get away with it. Once people start hitting hard, that's no longer an option.
 

Wurm

Professional
Better players should be holding up a mirror to you and making you face your weaknesses but you don't get much out of it if they're too good to have a fighting chance.

Much lesser players you can end up going stale against, you can get away with poor play and out of the habit of executing your game to a proper level and if you don't concentrate you can end up feeling and looking silly.

Better players can ironically make you feel good because they're less likely to give you junk and are more likely to win a point against you before you make a mistake... and you can actually read their body language and anticipate their shots properly because they will hit the shot they're setting up to hit (unless they explicitly disguise it).

Lesser players can ironically expose your inability to deal with said junk and can expose your inability to consistently finish off points without beating yourself.

Better players are more likely to stress your ability to defend.

Lesser players are more likely to stress your ability to attack.

Personally speaking I want to be practicing regularly against three classes of players:

a) someone who'll give you a 6-0 thumping if you just don't turn up, will beat you 6-2 on an average day but on the better days you might be able to nick the odd set off.
b) someone who you're closely matched with where you have the opportunity to problem solve around whichever bits of your game is a bit off or whichever bits of their game are working above average.
c) someone you beat 6-0 if they just don't turn up... etc...
 

junior74

Bionic Poster
I think "playing more matches" is true. Because the more you are able to relax, the better you are able play.

Of course, facing better players is important, especially on higher levels. But up to 5.0 level I say most of us are better in practice sets than in "real matches", so we need to relax and learn to hit without fear of failing.
 

Wurm

Professional
Are they "lesser", then?

You might be mistaking me for someone complaining about losing to a pusher (I never will because I am the pusher).

For a time I played regular singles with a couple of lads, before injuries had their way with me.

I was 3-30 in sets against player A. About 20 of those 30 lost sets were close affairs, the rest not so much. I never beat him in a best-of-3.
I was 26-8 in sets against player C. I only lost once to him in a best-of-3.

Player A rarely dropped more than a single game to player C and they'd typically just play points instead of games and sets to save on the angst...

The last few times I played player C I thumped him as by that time a couple of aspects of my attacking game had finally clicked allowing me to punish certain balls much more reliably and effectively than had been the case 18 months prior to that. I was almost never in a situation to be hitting those shots against player A.

What I missed at that time was the B player from my above list.
 
.................

For a time I played regular singles with a couple of lads, before injuries had their way with me.

....................

what types of injuries got you:?)) a lot of ppl stopped playing tennis n swithed to something else like pickles which's getting popular worldwide:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D.............
 

Bagumbawalla

Talk Tennis Guru
every now n then heard ppl saying 'you only get better by playing better players', is it true:?))8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B.......
The word "only", pretty much makes this an invalid question.
There are many ways to improve in tennis.
There are also different ways that a "better player" is helpful in improving.

Example: Two beginners trying to rally results in frustration and chasing balls- so having one player much better,
who can keep the ball in play, is an advantage and helps the beginner to improve.

Playing a set against a much better opponent, my help you to learn learn weaknesses that you need to improve,
but then, you still need to physically make those improvements- in other words, getting beaten 6-0, 6-0 does not
automatically, in itself, improve your game.

Other things that may lead to improvement are, becoming more physically fit, learning basic strategies, scouting
the weaknesses of your opponents, working with a good coach (who could also be a "better player") on solid basics.

So, playing with better player can be helpful, it is not the only way to improve.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
When playing lower level players, I would often Not use my biggest weapon(s). Like serving right-handed instead of my preferred left. Or I would push lower level players to their limit— w/o exceeding their comfort level very often.

This would be more enjoyable for them and allowed me to work on the “weaker” aspects of my own game.
 

TheBoom

Hall of Fame
It’s important to play with both. Playing with better players exposes your weaknesses and can help you focus on what you need to change/how to win with what you have. It isn’t helpful to play someone so much better than you that you get spanked and can barely hit the ball in the whole time. Ideally you hit with someone just better than you to give you (at least that’s my experience.

But, I think hitting with people worse than you is also important, if for nothing else than for tournaments/competitive match play. Inevitably you’ll have to play someone in a competitive setting that is marginally worse than you, but if you aren’t prepared for them to scrap and play with nothing to lose you may find yourself in trouble.

Plus, I think it’s important to help others improve and be a helpful part of the tennis community
 

Wurm

Professional
what types of injuries got you:?)) a lot of ppl stopped playing tennis n swithed to something else like pickles which's getting popular worldwide:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D.............

The one that put paid to singles was the hip.

Once my body decides even doubles is too much for it I'm going back to golf.
 
The one that put paid to singles was the hip.

Once my body decides even doubles is too much for it I'm going back to golf.

that's a nasty pro type injury from hitting while running/stopping/redirecting/etcetc. take care n rest till full recovered mate8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B8-B.............
 

Icsa

Professional
The dilemma is that better players don't want to play with you, because they also want to play with better players than them.

I don't mind playing with less advanced players, but I do make it a routine to force myself to make harder/impossible shots instead of focusing on winning points. For instance, hitting winners from return of serve, hitting down the line when cross-court is the safer shot, painting lines, short angles, consistently targeting the same spot on the court, losing points on purpose so I can test my mental ability to come back from behind etc.
 
The dilemma is that better players don't want to play with you, because they also want to play with better players than them.

I don't mind playing with less advanced players, but I do make it a routine to force myself to make harder/impossible shots instead of focusing on winning points. For instance, hitting winners from return of serve, hitting down the line when cross-court is the safer shot, painting lines, short angles, consistently targeting the same spot on the court, losing points on purpose so I can test my mental ability to come back from behind etc.

a suitable wall is the best 'hitting partner'........no matter hw hard/heavy hit/spin ur shot's it always returns ur shot, never misses. also it doesn't mind u turn on the smooth relax music, wata wonderful way to generate dopamine n 1/2 ur aging dilemma:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D..........
 

TheBoom

Hall of Fame
The dilemma is that better players don't want to play with you, because they also want to play with better players than them.

I don't mind playing with less advanced players, but I do make it a routine to force myself to make harder/impossible shots instead of focusing on winning points. For instance, hitting winners from return of serve, hitting down the line when cross-court is the safer shot, painting lines, short angles, consistently targeting the same spot on the court, losing points on purpose so I can test my mental ability to come back from behind etc.
I think it definitely helps to be within a certain range of the player that’s better OR have some part of your game that gives them a challenge to work on.

The other thing is , if you’re the lower level player, don’t make the situation miserable for the better player. There’s a couple of people I’ve hit with in the past that get so mad/upset/angry etc while we hit that not only are they worse but it’s not even fun. I’ll deal with one of those at a time, never both
 

Jono123

Professional
It’s important to play with both. Playing with better players exposes your weaknesses and can help you focus on what you need to change/how to win with what you have. It isn’t helpful to play someone so much better than you that you get spanked and can barely hit the ball in the whole time. Ideally you hit with someone just better than you to give you (at least that’s my experience.

But, I think hitting with people worse than you is also important, if for nothing else than for tournaments/competitive match play. Inevitably you’ll have to play someone in a competitive setting that is marginally worse than you, but if you aren’t prepared for them to scrap and play with nothing to lose you may find yourself in trouble.

Plus, I think it’s important to help others improve and be a helpful part of the tennis community
I play with both as Im a member of several clubs. Two are dedicated tennis clubs and one is more of a fitness centre with tennis heritage. The latter has the weakest players, even in the higher-tier classes. I can honestly say I learn little from them and usually play at 60%.. So I practice weaker shots and do inside backhands etc.
 
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