OGSM/Velocity Hybrid

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Rather than tack onto the 14th page of the Velocity thread, thought I'd start a new one that focusses a bit on Velocity Hybrid; Specifically OGSM in the main and V in the cross.

After going from full bed Velocity which I thought was a nice all-around setup for non-string breakers looking for a comfortable alternative to poly, I tried Gut/Cream and really enjoyed the balance of power, spin, control and comfort. Plus the tension maintenance and even after 8hrs of hitting, just some light fraying on both the gut and Cream.

So how did it compare to full bed Velocity. I realized fb V was a little too muted and too low powered. Initially I enjoyed it for letting me swing out. But I don't play with full swings all the time and as I grew tired, my shots became a bit unpredictable. Without a full swing I would either hit into the net or have to hit it very flat with no TS and less margin of error. Gut/Poly provide a bit more power so I could modulate the power better. Plus the feel and the added spin really let me trust the strings and really dial in my shots and even try shots that I had abandoned as being too low percentage.

So what to do with my 2nd racquet with fb V in it that's too muted and too down on power?? Well, good thing I still have half a set of V and a reel of OGSM as @392Hemi endorsed OGSM/Velocity as a hybrid to try. I'm hoping OGSM could add a bit more pop and feel. I'm not holding my breath for gut/poly level spin. But who knows...

That's what experiments are all about and I know @ByeByePoly would also be curious at another testimonial of a variant of Velocity stringing.
 
I can verify the n. gut and cream is a very good option. I have it in one of my angells tc97 c. 18 x 20 and even with the dense pattern, no problems with spin. Stringbed life seems pretty go both in tension maintain and durability. About 10 hours in, minimum fraying and tension has dropped about 5%. I string low, 48 gut/ 44 cream..
Velocity I only tried once, also in a full bed to test. Cut it out quick, did not like the feel nor the response. Thou I will revisit. I try to get a new string about three different tries.
So far the only multi I have warmed up to is Laserfibre's supreme 2.0. It felt more solid, consistent, nice pop, and more..Nice in a full bed or a hybrid.
It is all subjective, as we know...key is being open minded and finding the best for our hands.
Nice part of all the above (for me) ...arm friendly..good all around strings hitting the right notes....(for me)...
 
Thank goodness ... thought we lost you to swimming. If you are still in the stringing game:

<subliminal message>YPTA, Volkl SG, TF HDX Tour</subliminal message>

@100 degrees ... I have lost my will to string. :confused:

Judging by what HG did to V, it's not a good cross for poly main (at least not shaped poly). YPTA is listed as 155 stiffness, would it be a poly cross at multi stiffness? Post TE, I trust nylon over poly regardless of stiffness numbers, but I would be more willing to risk a poly cross than a poly main.

TF HDX Tour is 149. Good TW Review, except for spin. @scotus spoke highly of it and he likes spin ... maybe he can comment. Assuming tf hdx tour is a more durable main than V ... I wonder if a tf hdx tour / ypta (155/149) becomes a hdx tour++ with spin ... and perhaps a 2 month+ string?

I really shouldn't have done this to my buddy. :p:p:p
 
Rather than tack onto the 14th page of the Velocity thread, thought I'd start a new one that focusses a bit on Velocity Hybrid; Specifically OGSM in the main and V in the cross.
... Well, good thing I still have half a set of V and a reel of OGSM as @392Hemi endorsed OGSM/Velocity as a hybrid to try. I'm hoping OGSM could add a bit more pop and feel. I'm not holding my breath for gut/poly level spin. But who knows...

That's what experiments are all about and I know @ByeByePoly would also be curious at another testimonial of a variant of Velocity stringing.

Did I "endorse" this? I don't remember trying it, but there have been so many. I know I've used OGSM as a cross with a number of different multi mains. In any case, let us know your feedback.
 
Thank goodness ... thought we lost you to swimming. If you are still in the stringing game:

<subliminal message>YPTA, Volkl SG, TF HDX Tour</subliminal message>

@100 degrees ... I have lost my will to string. :confused:

Judging by what HG did to V, it's not a good cross for poly main (at least not shaped poly). YPTA is listed as 155 stiffness, would it be a poly cross at multi stiffness? Post TE, I trust nylon over poly regardless of stiffness numbers, but I would be more willing to risk a poly cross than a poly main.

TF HDX Tour is 149. Good TW Review, except for spin. @scotus spoke highly of it and he likes spin ... maybe he can comment. Assuming tf hdx tour is a more durable main than V ... I wonder if a tf hdx tour / ypta (155/149) becomes a hdx tour++ with spin ... and perhaps a 2 month+ string?

I really shouldn't have done this to my buddy. :p:p:p
Divisional Champs finished this weekend. My duties as an official is over as well (until my son's HS swim season in the winter). But son has League Champs next Sunday with Prelims tonight. He's missing yet another tennis class because of it.

Still loving VS/Cream. Beat my sister 6-2 over the weekend (she's USTA 3.5). I think she had a tough time with my pace and returned the ball pretty shallow which allowed me to burn her with shallow TS FH to her baseline. She really needed to hit to my BH but I think my shots made it difficult for her to return it smartly. I actually think she's a great candidate for Gut/Poly. Like me, she did very well with fb Velocity moving from her Textreme Warrior 100T (10.3oz?) to an O3 White which is closer to 11.2oz. It let her swing out while keeping her ball under control. Now that she is more used to the weight of the racquet, she can probably stand to add a bit more pop back into the strings; especially if it comes with more spin and more feel.

So I will use OGSM/V next practice opportunity. Probably warm up with it and then play some points. Then switch racquets back to VS/Cream to compare.
 
Divisional Champs finished this weekend. My duties as an official is over as well (until my son's HS swim season in the winter). But son has League Champs next Sunday with Prelims tonight. He's missing yet another tennis class because of it.

Still loving VS/Cream. Beat my sister 6-2 over the weekend (she's USTA 3.5). I think she had a tough time with my pace and returned the ball pretty shallow which allowed me to burn her with shallow TS FH to her baseline. She really needed to hit to my BH but I think my shots made it difficult for her to return it smartly. I actually think she's a great candidate for Gut/Poly. Like me, she did very well with fb Velocity moving from her Textreme Warrior 100T (10.3oz?) to an O3 White which is closer to 11.2oz. It let her swing out while keeping her ball under control. Now that she is more used to the weight of the racquet, she can probably stand to add a bit more pop back into the strings; especially if it comes with more spin and more feel.

So I will use OGSM/V next practice opportunity. Probably warm up with it and then play some points. Then switch racquets back to VS/Cream to compare.

Turns out my singles is fine at 9:00 am. ByeByeNoonSingles.

Still prefer V at lower tension ... RT 45.5 after match today. Strings moving a lot more ... surprised 3lbs made that much difference. My estimate is more likely to break near 20 hours this time ... more notching. Since the strings are moving more ... I think I will string a @392Hemi next (V 52/Cream 50).

I don't mind straightening strings that much, but am curious if poly cross keeps the V mains @52 straight.

I still think the challenge is finding a arm friendly non-poly durable main. I really don't want gut or zx ... so what is left? I'm lucky I found V and get a month+ ... still would like less notching.
 
D'oh!! :eek: Well, I guess we'll get a fresh take on the sgut/V hybrid. :p
What tensions are you thinking? Bought an Angell TC 97 with an 18x20 pattern, and would like to also use OGSM/velocity hybrid. Due to the tight pattern, I am thinking of using 17 gauge of both. I have only played with open patterns, 16x19, so I am thinking lowering the tension would be a good idea. 50/46 lbs on CP is what I was thinking. My gf will be using it, and she doesn't swing very hard at all. Maybe drop the tension by a few more pounds?
 
What tensions are you thinking? Bought an Angell TC 97 with an 18x20 pattern, and would like to also use OGSM/velocity hybrid. Due to the tight pattern, I am thinking of using 17 gauge of both. I have only played with open patterns, 16x19, so I am thinking lowering the tension would be a good idea. 50/46 lbs on CP is what I was thinking. My gf will be using it, and she doesn't swing very hard at all. Maybe drop the tension by a few more pounds?

TennisBoysCousinGFAngell?

My head hurts.
 
What tensions are you thinking? Bought an Angell TC 97 with an 18x20 pattern, and would like to also use OGSM/velocity hybrid. Due to the tight pattern, I am thinking of using 17 gauge of both. I have only played with open patterns, 16x19, so I am thinking lowering the tension would be a good idea. 50/46 lbs on CP is what I was thinking. My gf will be using it, and she doesn't swing very hard at all. Maybe drop the tension by a few more pounds?
OGSM17/Velocity17 @ 54/53 on DW machine.
My V1Pro is tight string pattern in the middle though it's a 16x19 (I think it's the middle 8 strings). I liked the power of OGSM near 55#, but thought I'd drop it a touch since Velocity is lower powered. I don't know that you can pick up much power from Velocity. But OGSM seems to be more sensitive to tension differences.
 
Thank goodness ... thought we lost you to swimming. If you are still in the stringing game:

<subliminal message>YPTA, Volkl SG, TF HDX Tour</subliminal message>

@100 degrees ... I have lost my will to string. :confused:

Judging by what HG did to V, it's not a good cross for poly main (at least not shaped poly). YPTA is listed as 155 stiffness, would it be a poly cross at multi stiffness? Post TE, I trust nylon over poly regardless of stiffness numbers, but I would be more willing to risk a poly cross than a poly main.

TF HDX Tour is 149. Good TW Review, except for spin. @scotus spoke highly of it and he likes spin ... maybe he can comment. Assuming tf hdx tour is a more durable main than V ... I wonder if a tf hdx tour / ypta (155/149) becomes a hdx tour++ with spin ... and perhaps a 2 month+ string?

I really shouldn't have done this to my buddy. :p:p:p

Whenever we talk about stiffness, we need to keep in mind that the lab test measures stiffness after the tension loss.

So Yonex Poly Tour Air's stiffness of 155, though very low, does not compare to Tecnifibre HDX Tour's 149 when you consider the fact that the Yonex loses 41% of tension to arrive at that stiffness whereas HDX Tour only loses 11%.
* Conclusion: HDX Tour is the much softer option.

When it comes to spin, HDX Tour is average for a poly, but if you compare it to the spinniest of the multis, it is still head and shoulders above them. Throw out all the spin potential numbers. I've tested Head Velocity, Gosen AK Control, etc. The multis simply don't compare to the polys. When it comes to spin potential numbers, I would only use them to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Seeing how YPTA's spin potential is lower than that of HDX Tour, I would say (without having tried the YPTA) that it is a fairly safe bet that the HDX Tour would be at least as spinny as the YPTA.
 
Whenever we talk about stiffness, we need to keep in mind that the lab test measures stiffness after the tension loss.

So Yonex Poly Tour Air's stiffness of 155, though very low, does not compare to Tecnifibre HDX Tour's 149 when you consider the fact that the Yonex loses 41% of tension to arrive at that stiffness whereas HDX Tour only loses 11%.
* Conclusion: HDX Tour is the much softer option.

When it comes to spin, HDX Tour is average for a poly, but if you compare it to the spinniest of the multis, it is still head and shoulders above them. Throw out all the spin potential numbers. I've tested Head Velocity, Gosen AK Control, etc. The multis simply don't compare to the polys. When it comes to spin potential numbers, I would only use them to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

Seeing how YPTA's spin potential is lower than that of HDX Tour, I would say (without having tried the YPTA) that it is a fairly safe bet that the HDX Tour would be at least as spinny as the YPTA.

Good point on stiffness calculation. I remember you saying the HDX tour spin was good. Maybe you said better than Velocity. TW rated spin low for hdx tour. I don't have a TW review of Velocity to see how they rated it's spin. I know if they rated it low, I would discount their spin reviews. I don't find Velocity spin to poly spin apples to oranges. It's not rpm spin, but in the neighborhood. It's been a long time with fb smooth poly (other than Cream) ... but I don't remember pro line 2 being more spin than Velocity. That was a PD ... and wasn't impressed with spin. I suspect there is a big spin range across smooth poly.

You hit fb hdx tour ... how did the mains hold up? Notch? Fray? FB strings stay straight? Slick like Velocity?
 
Good point on stiffness calculation. I remember you saying the HDX tour spin was good. Maybe you said better than Velocity. TW rated spin low for hdx tour. I don't have a TW review of Velocity to see how they rated it's spin. I know if they rated it low, I would discount their spin reviews. I don't find Velocity spin to poly spin apples to oranges. It's not rpm spin, but in the neighborhood. It's been a long time with fb smooth poly (other than Cream) ... but I don't remember pro line 2 being more spin than Velocity. That was a PD ... and wasn't impressed with spin. I suspect there is a big spin range across smooth poly.

You hit fb hdx tour ... how did the mains hold up? Notch? Fray? FB strings stay straight? Slick like Velocity?

I find HDX Tour considerably spinnier than the Velocity. More importantly, it gives me the confidence to swing out for the kill, which I do not have with Velocity. Perhaps I did not find the right tension for Velocity, but I tried it 3X, which is more than enough playtests for me.

Also, I use the 17g HDX Tour. I think TW review is on the 16g, and that may be why the TW guys felt that the spin was low.

I usually cut out polys after 2 hitting sessions, but since HDX Tour holds tension so well, I put string savers (Babolat Elastocross) in the sweet spot. With this setup, I can play 8-9 sessions without worrying about notching or popping the string. That's around when I feel the tension has finally gone below my tolerance level.
 
I find HDX Tour considerably spinnier than the Velocity. More importantly, it gives me the confidence to swing out for the kill, which I do not have with Velocity. Perhaps I did not find the right tension for Velocity, but I tried it 3X, which is more than enough playtests for me.

Also, I use the 17g HDX Tour. I think TW review is on the 16g, and that may be why the TW guys felt that the spin was low.

I usually cut out polys after 2 hitting sessions, but since HDX Tour holds tension so well, I put string savers (Babolat Elastocross) in the sweet spot. With this setup, I can play 8-9 sessions without worrying about notching or popping the string. That's around when I feel the tension has finally gone below my tolerance level.

I always feel I can get the power and spin feedback from one fb stringing at mid-tension. More spin for hdx tour is good praise. I'm going to keep that as a possible.
 
I always feel I can get the power and spin feedback from one fb stringing at mid-tension. More spin for hdx tour is good praise. I'm going to keep that as a possible.

It is entirely possible you'd do just as well with Velocity if not better.

Keep whatever works best for you.
 
Cream/velocity:

1) stiffest string and 17g in mains for spin
2) softens up from fb Cream "some" for elbow sensitive
3) maybe smooth cream easy on velocity cross

:D You might get that one @392Hemi approved.
 
Ok, I got a chance to get onto the court with OGSM/Velocity. Well, only played with it for about 20min. Then went back to VS/Cream.
So O/V hybrid has a nice feel to it (with a damper). Dampless, I didn't like the twang sound. With damp, it felt a bit muted again and less power still. I found I had good control. But I struggled to get the ball to bounce close to the baseline. Many times, it would land near the service line. I stopped trying for spin and hit more flat shots and then it went a bit deeper. I found I had to take full swings again. Hm, would this be a good setup for doubles vs singles? I feel like I would struggle with singles because the balls would land too short to put on any pressure. It felt comfortable enough. Strings stayed in place (which I can't say for full bed OGSM)

My son struggled to hit the ball back cleanly because he was always having to sprint forward to dig my short hit balls.

I switched back to VS/Cream. My first hit and the ball nearly went to the back fence. Took me the equivalent of a full game and I was able to adjust back to VS/Cream.

I liked how OGSM/Velocity felt in general and would be a good all-around setup that is pretty cheap; especially if you hit a bit flat and spin is not a critical part of your game. OGSM set is $5. Cream is $9. So $7/stringing. But it was down on power and spin compared to VS/Cream @ $28/stringing. Even when my son pounded the ball to me, O/V felt like it absorbed the energy and I didn't have a particularly hard return or block. That's different than VS/Cream which would let me return his hard hit ball equally hard and even blocking his hard serves would provide quite a bit of pace back on my return.

My only hope is that this hybrid would gain a bit of power as the strings settle in after maybe an hour of play.
 
Ok, I got a chance to get onto the court with OGSM/Velocity. Well, only played with it for about 20min. Then went back to VS/Cream.
So O/V hybrid has a nice feel to it (with a damper). Dampless, I didn't like the twang sound. With damp, it felt a bit muted again and less power still. I found I had good control. But I struggled to get the ball to bounce close to the baseline. Many times, it would land near the service line. I stopped trying for spin and hit more flat shots and then it went a bit deeper. I found I had to take full swings again. Hm, would this be a good setup for doubles vs singles? I feel like I would struggle with singles because the balls would land too short to put on any pressure. It felt comfortable enough. Strings stayed in place (which I can't say for full bed OGSM)

My son struggled to hit the ball back cleanly because he was always having to sprint forward to dig my short hit balls.

I switched back to VS/Cream. My first hit and the ball nearly went to the back fence. Took me the equivalent of a full game and I was able to adjust back to VS/Cream.

I liked how OGSM/Velocity felt in general and would be a good all-around setup that is pretty cheap; especially if you hit a bit flat and spin is not a critical part of your game. OGSM set is $5. Cream is $9. So $7/stringing. But it was down on power and spin compared to VS/Cream @ $28/stringing. Even when my son pounded the ball to me, O/V felt like it absorbed the energy and I didn't have a particularly hard return or block. That's different than VS/Cream which would let me return his hard hit ball equally hard and even blocking his hard serves would provide quite a bit of pace back on my return.

My only hope is that this hybrid would gain a bit of power as the strings settle in after maybe an hour of play.

Im gathering that the O/V setup is better for higher swing speeds? You mentioned you had to take full swings again and the balls were bouncing short to the baseline with your normal swing. If you like the feel, would you consider decreasing tension to see if you're able naturally to increase your court depth?

Sounds like it is a VALUE setup @ 7 a pop (pun intended). :rolleyes:
 
Im gathering that the O/V setup is better for higher swing speeds? You mentioned you had to take full swings again and the balls were bouncing short to the baseline with your normal swing. If you like the feel, would you consider decreasing tension to see if you're able naturally to increase your court depth?

Sounds like it is a VALUE setup @ 7 a pop (pun intended). :rolleyes:
Yes. I think it's a value setup that provides good control, good comfort and better feel than full bed Velocity. I would like to experiment more with a) hit again to see if things change with strings loosening up a little b) possibly a lower tension to try to tune a bit more power.

I can see this possibly working good for my doubles Flights for flatter shots that stay IN. (though, I suppose faster paced ball with more spin that is hit deeper could be quite the weapon too). I did miss a bit of the spin I got from VS/Cream on my 2nd serves. But flatter serves aimed a bit longer were going in nicely.
 
Yes. I think it's a value setup that provides good control, good comfort and better feel than full bed Velocity. I would like to experiment more with a) hit again to see if things change with strings loosening up a little b) possibly a lower tension to try to tune a bit more power.

I can see this possibly working good for my doubles Flights for flatter shots that stay IN. (though, I suppose faster paced ball with more spin that is hit deeper could be quite the weapon too). I did miss a bit of the spin I got from VS/Cream on my 2nd serves. But flatter serves aimed a bit longer were going in nicely.

"I did miss a bit of the spin I got from VS/Cream"

I played singles this morning. I played a great first set with the fb Velocity, but decided to pull out the tonic/cream for second set. I'm playing much better now than the last tonic/cream hit ... so figured it would be a better side by side. Spin ... did I say spin. The difference in my kick serve and baseline groundstroke spin was different enough for my friend/opponent to comment pretty quickly. I was primarily testing spin for first three games ... and was just about to test flatter shots/targets and I hurt my calf. Weird place on calf ... high nearer back of knee ... toward inside side of leg. Match over ... ice on it now. I can't really tell if it's a tear ... or strain ... or ???. I have had calf injuries before (always inside winter tennis) ... and they felt like a knife went across the back center calf horizontally. Took several weeks to come back. This felt different ... landed and felt like a strain. Walked off court ok ... but definitely could feel the spot hurt.

But ... tonic/cream played and felt great. The Velocity also feels great at the lower tension.

Edit: I think I have to try Velocity/Cream before cream/velocity. I know how much spin I get with fb vs touch vs tonic/cream ... and tonic cream is significantly more. I am curious if velocity/cream gets similar added spin. I didn't find fb vs touch anymore spin then fb velocity. Also might break velocity/cream to quickly. Yep ... next stop velocity 52/Cream 50. That is ... if I have a working calf. :eek:
 
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"I did miss a bit of the spin I got from VS/Cream"

I played singles this morning. I played a great first set with the fb Velocity, but decided to pull out the tonic/cream for second set. I'm playing much better now than the last tonic/cream hit ... so figured it would be a better side by side. Spin ... did I say spin. The difference in my kick serve and baseline groundstroke spin was different enough for my friend/opponent to comment pretty quickly. I was primarily testing spin for first three games ... and was just about to test flatter shots/targets and I hurt my calf. Weird place on calf ... high nearer back of knee ... toward inside side of leg. Match over ... ice on it now. I can't really tell if it's a tear ... or strain ... or ???. I have had calf injuries before (always inside winter tennis) ... and they felt like a knife went across the back center calf horizontally. Took several weeks to come back. This felt different ... landed and felt like a strain. Walked off court ok ... but definitely could feel the spot hurt.

But ... tonic/cream played and felt great. The Velocity also feels great at the lower tension.

Edit: I think I have to try Velocity/Cream before cream/velocity. I know how much spin I get with fb vs touch vs tonic/cream ... and tonic cream is significantly more. I am curious if velocity/cream gets similar added spin. I didn't find fb vs touch anymore spin then fb velocity. Also might break velocity/cream to quickly. Yep ... next stop velocity 52/Cream 50. That is ... if I have a working calf. :eek:
How goes the rehab? When does racquet go to stringer?
 
How goes the rehab? When does racquet go to stringer?

No rehab yet unless you count working the remote watching the British Open Golf. Leg feels better today. I will probably string v/cream as soon as I can play matches. I will test leg with ball machine first. Lol ... lifting 40lb ball machine in and out of the car should be great :p for the calf.
 
No rehab yet unless you count working the remote watching the British Open Golf. Leg feels better today. I will probably string v/cream as soon as I can play matches. I will test leg with ball machine first. Lol ... lifting 40lb ball machine in and out of the car should be great :p for the calf.
Was referring to calf. Lifting ball machine is done twice per session? Whereas taking steps is like hundreds? Or in most 3.0-3.5 cases, 20?
 
Ok, I got a chance to get onto the court with OGSM/Velocity. Well, only played with it for about 20min. Then went back to VS/Cream.
So O/V hybrid has a nice feel to it (with a damper). Dampless, I didn't like the twang sound. With damp, it felt a bit muted again and less power still. I found I had good control. But I struggled to get the ball to bounce close to the baseline. Many times, it would land near the service line. I stopped trying for spin and hit more flat shots and then it went a bit deeper. I found I had to take full swings again. Hm, would this be a good setup for doubles vs singles? I feel like I would struggle with singles because the balls would land too short to put on any pressure. It felt comfortable enough. Strings stayed in place (which I can't say for full bed OGSM)

My son struggled to hit the ball back cleanly because he was always having to sprint forward to dig my short hit balls.

I switched back to VS/Cream. My first hit and the ball nearly went to the back fence. Took me the equivalent of a full game and I was able to adjust back to VS/Cream.

I liked how OGSM/Velocity felt in general and would be a good all-around setup that is pretty cheap; especially if you hit a bit flat and spin is not a critical part of your game. OGSM set is $5. Cream is $9. So $7/stringing. But it was down on power and spin compared to VS/Cream @ $28/stringing. Even when my son pounded the ball to me, O/V felt like it absorbed the energy and I didn't have a particularly hard return or block. That's different than VS/Cream which would let me return his hard hit ball equally hard and even blocking his hard serves would provide quite a bit of pace back on my return.

My only hope is that this hybrid would gain a bit of power as the strings settle in after maybe an hour of play.
How's the hybrid so far? I strung ogsm/velocity at 48/45 in Angell Tc 97 18/20, and it has great pop and a plush feel. Strung it lower due to your recommendation. Need some more time with it, but so far it seems very nice. Not as crisp as v/cream though.
 
How's the hybrid so far? I strung ogsm/velocity at 48/45 in Angell Tc 97 18/20, and it has great pop and a plush feel. Strung it lower due to your recommendation. Need some more time with it, but so far it seems very nice. Not as crisp as v/cream though.
I only have about an hour of hitting on OGSM/Velocity. I think the second outing felt better. The stringbed felt more comfortable. Maybe there was a bit more pop. But my gut/poly in the same racquet has so much more pop that it's hard to tell.

But I do like OGSM/Velocity better than full bed Velocity for more feel. Maybe I need to go down a bit more in tension. I am curious about V/Cream. I think if I could get OGSM/Velocity to work, then it's a great back-up racquet setup for my gut/poly. It can sit in the bag for months and not lose tension. I'm not sure if I can say the same for Cream.
 
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