Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
I think if they hire J Whitlinger as coach, they will probably finally win the NCAA championships with the talent that they have.
Ohio State Tennis
- Thread starter Nacho
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silentkman
Hall of Fame
Karma for OSU.
jerryjones1960
Rookie
Caught the singles portion waiting on my Gators. Ohio State was not very impressive outdoors. Kobelt must have a hard time playing 3 set matches as his line calls are awful. McNally is also bad. I didn't see the doubles but that most likely determined the match.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Karma for what?
chris-swede
Hall of Fame
OSU is nearly unbeatable indoors
but outdoors their Level fall off
i really thought they could win it all!
but outdoors their Level fall off
i really thought they could win it all!
Armchair coaching observation. May be wise for coach TT to get his boy to play as many matches down south as possible. Maybe give up a few more home matches early season for outdoor venues on the road. Easier said than done, I know.
optimaltennis
Semi-Pro
No chance. Good teams from south always go to Columbus to tune in their games for national indoors, which is always mid-February. It serves no purpose for tOSU or their opponents to play an outdoor match before national indoors.
Okay. Travel south a little more after the national indoors.
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silentkman
Hall of Fame
The bad call that McNally made against Illinois.
stapletonj
Hall of Fame
BTW, my hometown boy, JJ Mercer is headed your way. Huntington, WV has some pretty good players for a small town.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
So, one player at OSU made a bad call, it gets filmed and tweeted by the opposing player, the OSU player gets raked over social media, and its still karma for the whole team? Ok, got it....I guess that makes sense, especially since no other player or team out there has ever made a bad call
Nacho
Hall of Fame
He's a solid player!
Nacho
Hall of Fame
While OSU is strong indoors its debatable these days if outdoors was the factor. Kobelt and Joyce seemed most affected by the outdoors....I give a lot of credit to UNC who hit their stride at the right time. UNC was a title contender at the beginning of the year, just had some injuries during the year that left them lagging in the ACC.
It was always a tough matchup for OSU, I thought they could get through it. Losing the doubles point was the difference that day and despite the score there were chances negated by some poor play and no-ad scoring. Also, a weak BIG schedule going into the tournament was probably more to them not being prepared.
UNC played awesome, hats off to them!
Nacho
Hall of Fame
They gotta play a BIG schedule....so tough to fit in. They usually schedule matches during March, this year they did it with Texas A&M and Texas, last year with Georgia and USC....But April is all BIG and its just not a tough enough schedule, or one with outside matches. Not even sure I buy into the inside/outside thing anymore with that team....maybe in 2012...But they are much more conditioned for it now. Just wasn't their day
As I said earlier, easier said than done.
silentkman
Hall of Fame
He lost the deciding match. Yes, it was karma. Unfortunately this is a big problem in college tennis. college tennis players are just terrible sportsmen generally.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Ok, got it, so getting trolled over social media, including by celebrity players, wasn't enough; he had to be the one that lost the deciding match to "get his karma"....No one else lost a match against UNC, I understand now...
Is there another sport where college athletes make their own judgement calls? No one is ever terrible in football or basketball, those athletes are the top sportsman of amateur athletics....maybe your right
Picking up sarcasm? Calling out college tennis players as terrible sportsmen is a joke (not directed at Nacho). Guys sometimes make tight calls, occasionally on the extreme one off make a horrible one. Ladies are generally over generous with their calls. I watch tons of high level college tennis in person, the level of sportsmanship and fair play given players call their own lines is off the chart good.
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silentkman
Hall of Fame
The point is the players should not be making the calls. Unfortunately , tennis is a non revenue sport that does not have the money that almost all the other sports have. College tennis is bad position with six matches going on at a time. The temptation is great to cheat and most college players do. I'm not even sure how many general tennis fans are interested in college tennis. is has to be near the bottom of interest level of college sorts generally.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Actually, I think its (calling lines) what separates tennis from other sports in terms of sportsmanship. I have seen many good things happen through this, mores then anything bad. Personally, I would rather have no refs. except maybe one or two roaming...In the end these matches aren't decided by a couple of calls, good or bad. And the players test the ref's eyesight to see if they are even paying attention, because they have a ref there. While there are a couple of great ref's, it is mostly a senior citizen work program...Only have refs right now because some rival SEC schools in the mid 90's complained to the NCAA....Now every school has to budget $30000 a year for half/*** ref's...
Problem with tennis right now is that the most vocal are not the champions, but the players (and parents) griping they lost because of a call, or because it was hot, or because the match was too long. Nothing to do with working hard or playing well to get there. So we have 1 set doubles, no-ad scoring, and people making judgements for more refs because of social media outrage and grainy play sight videos with bugs flying around.
A lot of people follow college tennis. Its a great sport, and a hidden gem for many fans. But college sports are a money loser, all sports. No one shows up but parents, except for power 5 football games but even some of those are empty. Who goes to a Kansas football game? Fan support comes from a good product, an engaged team, and school tradition. You got those things and they will show up no matter the team
silentkman
Hall of Fame
Imagine basketball and sports not having referees. I t would be anarchy. Yes, its citizen seniors because nobody wants to pay referees. Football and basketball are paying the bills for tennis and non revenue sports. All need to do is look at the students fees, the big schools student fees are negligible and in other cases the students have to pay for football etc. I love tennis deeply, but its not a team sport.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Not many sports are "revenue". They might have ticket sales, but they are either in the red or barely breaking even. This is a common misconception about sports like Football and Basketball. Sure, some power 5's like Alabama, Florida, and Alabama rack in the money from their programs. But, there are reasons schools like Colorado, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Maryland, and Oregon State can't support a tennis team much lest other sports. MAC schools are a good study of this if you want to deep dive into the topic. Most sports programs survive on Endowments and the general philanthropy of alumni. Look up UVA, tennis was the highest grossing income by donation sport there....not sure if it still is, but the donation money into that program was crazy. Other schools like Georgia, TCU, Oklahoma State, and others have also benefited from alumni donors.
Basketball, at most levels has 2, maybe 3 ref's. Its about what tennis has. I believe they have their own labor union and its part of what drives up the costs for basketball programs. At lower levels they get much less and in HS many are just "parents". I would be fine with tennis have 2-3 refs out there managing bad behavior that coaches can't manage. And I give tennis players much more credit for behavior. Its a small community, jerks are quickly exposed and shunned. Never needed lots of ref's in the past, its a knee-jerk reaction, and simple solution with heavy costs.
True, and there is no training, and there is no overriding body that supports them, and they are typically doing other stuff, and their time is limited
Hardly, I really encourage you to do some research on this as its a common misconception. A good study are the woes University of Buffalo, and most MAC schools frankly, are going through paying for football at the cost of other sports. Be glad to share examples with you offline.
Here I definitely agree with you. Tennis at its best is when kids get to compete against each other, and have the chance to independently rise to the top. Its the way college golf is set up, and why you have players come out of nowhere to succeed. Everyone has a chance. A guy playing 6 for a team may never get the chance to do better then that if he is on a good team...Talent is squashed. I do love the dual matches, but I am finding myself more intrigued with the individual tournament then the dual match. For a guy like Sam Rifface to have the chance to upset JJ Wolf would never happen in a dual match...thats the stuff that makes tennis great and pushes guys further, and into pro tennis.
silentkman
Hall of Fame
I never said many sports were revenue. That's the problem in a nutshell. its only football and basketball that generate money for the most part. The MAC breaks even on sports because the students subsidize it. I don't agree with students subsidizing sports if they have no interest in it. The Ohio State athletic department makes more in profit than a MAC school makes in revenue. How exactly is a college tennis shunned? there will always be an occasional donor that will help. Tennis players at all levels will hook because they basically didn't grow up with referees like the other sports. Actually there is training for referees in tennis. it's a thankless job with the lowest pay of all sports. Tennis will always be a niche sport.
For what its worth all the college tennis linesmen and umpires are USTA trained. If I'm wrong am happy to stand corrected, don't think I am though. While some are senior citizens I know some that have ITF certification chair badges and also work ITF pro events. Also saw a linesman I know that chairs local matches calling lines at the NCAA, I'm sure she was not the only non-senior citizen experienced chair ump calling just lines. Another who has called lines at the US Open. Additionally full line crews were used in the semis and finals of the individuals. Most DI matches are chaired. At the NCAA umpires are less likely influenced by home host coaches. The number of bad calls that are incorrectly not overturned and actually alter the match in favor of the bad caller has to be minuscule at best.
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jerryjones1960
Rookie
Another year another disappointing finish, one year......maybe
Nacho
Hall of Fame
32-3 record, ITA team indoor champions, BIG conference champions, undefeated in BIG; most teams would call that a great season....Despite losing in the Quarters of the NCAA outdoor Tournament
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Not anytime soon, Stanford dynasty is about to begin next season.
bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
Maybe at the NCAAs they could rig up the two sets of six courts with a Shotspot system and then have a one ref "in the booth" who could review all the courts. Same rules as pro tennis in terms of number of challenges.
silentkman
Hall of Fame
I like the idea. I wonder about the cost. The challenges would be great in college tennis.
SavvyStringer
Professional
It would slow the match to only have one ref with all the questionable calls. Secondly to have the full playsight shot tracking on 6 courts is approximately 135k.
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silentkman
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the insight. Does any college tennis program have that type of money? I just don't see college tennis caching on. I despise the unfinished matches.
SavvyStringer
Professional
Many programs can find the money if they try hard enough it's just about actually justifying the expenditure. A few programs already have playsight like Tennessee. It's certainly a niche sport as is tennis in general. Everyone hates the unfinished matches and many tennis purists are arguing against the scoring formats used in matches with no ad and only 6 game sets in doubles rather than pro sets. When I started with the University 7 years ago they still played pro sets. I felt that was a fairer format but it's all about condensing it into a time sensative format not the true intention of the game.
silentkman
Hall of Fame
If a match is unfinished, its like the match never occurred from a record keeping perspective correct? is it possible to allow the public's help with the cost of playsight in exchanged for court time etc?
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SavvyStringer
Professional
To my knowledge unfinished doesn’t count. That’s why you see players that play fast have a big record and grinders only show like 10-15 matches a year. As far as funding then you get into facilities management, scheduling, insurance and liability issues. When I used to have my friends play in our indoor facility they would each individually have to sign liability waivers releasing the university in case they got injured. Every single time we played they had to sign new waivers. I have to sign one as part of my contract.
Clemson_tennis
Legend
Wolf going pro
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Not a surprise....hopefully he’ll do much better than Kypson
No surprise, called it in my (deleted by mods) posts about the way he was being coached during NCAAs - anyway, good luck to him, I think it’s the right time to make his move to the pros and face the next level of competition
Gracelhink
Rookie
Go get paid JJ, you will be remembered for a great 3 years and the anchor for a 2019 team indoor title.
Kudos to Tucker for a masterful development of this young talent into the top 20 year old in USA, and his ceiling is higher.
Kudos to Tucker for a masterful development of this young talent into the top 20 year old in USA, and his ceiling is higher.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Go get paid ?? unless he already has mega million dollar contract with a sponsor, he's not get paid much at all. It will be tough going playing in the challengers and satellites. Unless he's one of the those top talents that breakthrough to top 100 right away, he will be struggling for a while. his movement still isn't ATP level. that part of his game has to get much better to break into top 100.
hornsupbulls
New User
satellites? what are you talking about? Those stopped existing like 15 years ago. JJ Wolf ranking is 260 which means he can get into the main draw of any challenger, so he will not have to play any futures like your beloved Axel or Fawcett. And about the movement of JJ Wolf, he moves fantastic and your comment shows that you have never played at a decent level.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
JJ's transition game is poor. his movement into net is slow. At ATP level, it will get exposed. also his stamina and shot tolerance is in question.
hornsupbulls
New User
As I said, you clearly never played at a good level if you think that. How can you talk about transition game and shot tolerance if he played most matches indoors for the past three years, which is about shot tolerance and transition game. You have no idea about tennis, stop acting like an expert.
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
LOL... I saw JJ's at the NCAA men single a couple of months ago in Orlando and his stamina is questionable at best. He had a long match the day before (he won that match) but ran out of gas and also got outplayed by a Gators freshman. He will get killed at the pro level.
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Riffice, to be fair has a lot more “game” than the average D1 Freshman.
McLovin
Legend
@hornsupbulls, Nostradamus is a 'known quantity' on these boards, and its best to just ignore him. For more info, do a search for posts by 'Fedace'...
bobleenov1963
Hall of Fame
Riffice is a good freshman but he had no business of beating JJ Wolf. Wolf was just flat out tired and had no gas left in the tank that day. Completely unacceptable on Wolf's part. If he couldn't beat a freshman because he was out of shape, he has no business on the pro circuit.
I squarely put the blame on the head coach Ty Tucker for not getting his player ready for the match. Tucker is getting paid like almost 400k/yr and he has never won a NCAA championship with the talents that they have at OSU. In other words, Tucker is getting paid in tennis like Nick Saban is getting paid for coaching college football. Saban has 6 national championship and Tucker has a big ZERO.
Tucker needs to go, IMHO.
MarTennis
Semi-Pro
No way. Parity is coming to college tennis via international players at mid majors. Soon will be 75% international. Gonna be squads of 14 utrs at academically accommodating schools.
rastapasta
New User
OSU with the ever-so-interesting team this coming season. Initially expecting the loss of Martin Joyce and Hunter Tubert, I thought that OSU would actually be stronger with a strong freshmen class. However, after losing JJ Wolf to the circuit and Alex Kobelt to grad school/transferring but adding a much needed Justin Boulais, there's a lot more ambiguity for how the team will fare.
On first glance:
John McNally has had a great summer so far and looks poised to hold down the #1 spot
Kyle Seelig has had success as well and will continue being a great contributor to the team
I thought James Trotter was perfectly capable of starting last season and had picked up a great win against Roy Smith (former Baylor #1). I see success for him this year.
I'm fully expecting both Cannon Kingsley and Justin Boulais to start as well
The other freshmen (JJ Mercer and Robert Cash) are both high-end recruits, but not sure who'd occupy the last spot when also considering Tim Seibert. Seibert is a strong player who does respectable against tough players, but typically loses from what I've seen. Tucker has stacked Seibert at the 4th singles spot in previous years, but could find more success playing down to 6.
Overall, I do see regression mainly due to losing Wolf, but we'll see how the team develops come the start of the season.
On first glance:
John McNally has had a great summer so far and looks poised to hold down the #1 spot
Kyle Seelig has had success as well and will continue being a great contributor to the team
I thought James Trotter was perfectly capable of starting last season and had picked up a great win against Roy Smith (former Baylor #1). I see success for him this year.
I'm fully expecting both Cannon Kingsley and Justin Boulais to start as well
The other freshmen (JJ Mercer and Robert Cash) are both high-end recruits, but not sure who'd occupy the last spot when also considering Tim Seibert. Seibert is a strong player who does respectable against tough players, but typically loses from what I've seen. Tucker has stacked Seibert at the 4th singles spot in previous years, but could find more success playing down to 6.
Overall, I do see regression mainly due to losing Wolf, but we'll see how the team develops come the start of the season.
CincyIllinifan
Rookie
Although I hate to say this, as an Illini fan, the only way Tucker leaves is if he chooses to leave. He has done a phenomenal job as a northern school coach. If you’re going to measure success as having to win an NCAA title, then I think your expectations are a bit too high - his teams have basically won everything else. Keep in mind, the reason tOSU has talent is because Tucker has convinced these players to come play in Columbus, OH - not an easy task, just as it is trying to get players to come to Champaign, IL, or Ann Arbor, MI.
I’m not a fan when Tucker signs overaged foreign players (Torpegaard), but he recruits a lot of strong domestic players also. Not easy when you’re recruiting against schools from the SEC, ACC, PAC12, etc..
