Ok, Djokovic was always going to win this if not DQ

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
No Thiem won. It was destiny.

But in all fairness,Thiem's level before 2nd set of the semi final was good enough to break Djokovic down.

From 2nd set onwards of the semis and the entire Final the kind of nervousness each of Medvedev,Thiem,Zverev showed is unforgivable.

So yes Djokovic would have won if they played the same. But we don't know if it was the effect of no big 3 being there.

Dominic played extremely high level in AO 2020.
 
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Yugram

Legend
Tim practically showed up to the breaker in a wheelchair and Zverev still cant hit a serve in play

Zverev’s strategy all tournament: hit two first serves

On Championship Tiebreak: hit two second serves


Djoker was robbed of #18 but whatever. At least someone new won for once

I’m happy for Tim
Yeah, I wanted Thiem to win after the sequence from 5-4 30-30 to 5-5 0-15. GOAT stuff.
 

ibbi

Legend
The major problem with this final was that both guys couldn't handle the pressure of being favourite. Against Djokovic that would have obviously not been an issue, so there's far less reason to assume they'd have played as badly as they did.

Remember what Thiem did to a much better looking Djokovic on a court he's much happier on at the beginning of the year? :unsure: If he could do that to him there I don't see any reason he couldn't beat him here.
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah I think that much is clear now. I will say this though, both Zverev and Thiem seem to play much better than they did today, against Djokovic in general. I think playing each other to be crowned a new slam champ among the young (ish) players (Thiem is 27) contributed to many nerves. Of course we knew about Z's serving troubles anyway, and I really think Thiem's foot/ankle or whatever it was, was bothering him, and then he cramped on top of it. He truly can play much better than that. He just played very badly today in particular. Luckily Zverev played worse, even if not by much.
 

Yugram

Legend
The major problem with this final was that both guys couldn't handle the pressure of being favourite. Against Djokovic that would have obviously not been an issue, so there's far less reason to assume they'd have played as badly as they did.

Remember what Thiem did to a much better looking Djokovic on a court he's much happier on at the beginning of the year? :unsure: If he could do that to him there I don't see any reason he couldn't beat him here.
Ehm.. completely faded away after having all the momentum and a 2 sets to 1 lead? Terrifying.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
@Yugram After today's match I have to say I fully understand why you say Thiem is a very lucky player. To get away with such a terrible performance requires some real luck indeed. Djokovic is still the luckiest player ever though.
 

USO

Professional
That’s why it’s going to be very hard for Djokovic to rebound from this because he missed a big opportunity. If Nadal wins the French Open then it will hurt even more. But at the end of the day people warned him about his reckless behaviour in the past and he didn’t take it seriously so it’s his own fault.
 

TripleATeam

Legend
He would have won, but unfortunately what happened happened.

In another universe, Djokovic might not have been defaulted and he would have won. But we live in this universe. Djokovic lost. There's no sense in talking about a moral win because those don't exist. All that exists is the winner and everyone else. This time, Djokovic wasn't the winner.

What he needs to do is recognize that he would have swept this and recollect himself. If he sits around moping and agreeing that he's got moral victories, he won't go for real victories.
 

Yugram

Legend
@Yugram After today's match I have to say I fully understand why you say Thiem is a very lucky player. To get away with such a terrible performance requires some real luck indeed. Djokovic is still the luckiest player ever though.
I watched the match consistently only from early in the fifth, and even in this set alone he got away with a net-cord on some 30-30 moment and a kamikaze forehand at 5-4 30-30.
 

SinneGOAT

Professional
No Thiem won. It was destiny.

But in all fairness,Thiem's level before 2nd set of the final was good enough to breka Djokovic down.

Fron 2nd set onwards of the semis and the entire Final the kind of nervousness each of Medvedev,Thiem,Zverev showed is unforgivable.

So yes Djokovic would have won if they played the same. But we don't know if it was the effect of no big 3 being there.

Dominic played extremely high level in AO 2020.
It’s amazing how fast you changed your pfp.
 

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
I watched the match consistently only from early in the fifth, and even in this set alone he got away with a net-cord on some 30-30 moment and a kamikaze forehand at 5-4 30-30.
Thiem played exceptional all tournament long. But the pressure of having no big 3 in finals did him in. Even in Semis the first 6 games were out of this world quality and from there onwards both sucked.

He will get better used to the tag of favourite. But watch out for Zverev. He has everything( but everything is a work in progress). He was outstanding in some of his volleys.

Zverev will lead tennis after big 3, I don't like that, but it's what it is.
 

Yugram

Legend
Thiem played exceptional all tournament long. But the pressure of having no big 3 in finals did him in. Even in Semis the first 6 games were out of this world quality and from there onwards both sucked.

He will get better used to the tag of favourite. But watch out for Zverev. He has everything( but everything is a work in progress). He was outstanding in some of his volleys.

Zverev will lead tennis after big 3, I don't like that, but it's what it is.
Sorry, not buying this. Even if we imagine that he serves for the title against Djokovic, he was never, NEVER going to close it calmly. And Djokovic is not forgiving such mistakes.
 

duaneeo

Hall of Fame
The major problem with this final was that both guys couldn't handle the pressure of being favourite. Against Djokovic that would have obviously not been an issue, so there's far less reason to assume they'd have played as badly as they did.
Facing Djokadal in yet another slam final, I think Thiem would've been the same jungle of nerves shown today.
 
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ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Sorry, not buying this. Even if we imagine that he serves for the title against Djokovic, he was never, NEVER going to close it calmly. And Djokovic is not forgiving such mistakes.
That's somewhat true FO 2019 and AO 2020 Was maddening for me. But he is growing smarter and more consistent. He will figure it out.

But the way Dominic played upto Semis it would have been a very tight match against Djokovic,he might even out play him.

But Would he close it out? From what I saw today, no.
 

socallefty

Professional
The major problem with this final was that both guys couldn't handle the pressure of being favourite. Against Djokovic that would have obviously not been an issue, so there's far less reason to assume they'd have played as badly as they did.

Remember what Thiem did to a much better looking Djokovic on a court he's much happier on at the beginning of the year? :unsure: If he could do that to him there I don't see any reason he couldn't beat him here.
Thiem or Zverev would have played well as the underdog against Djokovic until they were close to victory…then I think they would have played bad like they did today. In contrast, Djokovic would have been rock-solid when he needed to in the end and taken the title like he did at the AO. The NextGen players lack the belief that they deserve to be Slam champions particularly when they play the Big3.

Pathetic of Djokovic to throw this Slam away due to his unthinking action when he let his emotions get the better of him - should have been an easy #18 for him.
 

TheAssassin

Legend
Some of you in the thread are really taking the **** with the favorite tag messing Thiem up. Him and NextGen have been underdogs against the Big 3 for ages now and what did they win as underdogs? Zero Majors. He needed more than two sets to get going and a Zverev collapse to win but you would not only give him a chance against Djokovic, but back him to win. Does that mean he would lose to someone worse than Zverev, since he would have been even more favored to win? But he'd beat Djokovic who didn't lose a match the whole year before the default? Lol, I guess some have to keep up with the Novak loses all hypotheticals narrative and not state the obvious that he blew a huge opportunity for an 18th Slam.
 
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TheNachoMan

Hall of Fame
Some of you in the thread are really taking the **** with the favorite tag messing Thiem up. He needed more than two sets to get going and a Zverev collapse to win but you would not only give him a chance against Djokovic, but back him to win. Does that mean he would lose to someone worse than Zverev, since he would have been even more favored to win? But he'd beat Djokovic who didn't lose a match the whole year before the default? Lol, I guess some have to keep up with the Novak losses all hypotheticals narrative and not say state the obvious that he blew a huge opportunity for an 18th Slam.
He got blown out by Krajinović at Cincy before USO. I guess being the favorite was too much pressure for him
 

Druss

Hall of Fame
Even at 70% Djoker would have won this final. I can imagine A-Rod watching this final shaking his head saying, “why couldn’t I get one of these ‘mugs’ in my slam finals instead of Fed”.
 
Hard to contradict you here. Possible he would have dropped the first set against PCB (not even sure, though) but he'd have easily won in 4, like he did with Edmund. Next would have been Shapopoalov (never lost against him) and then Zverev and Thiem... with this level of tennis from Zverev and Thiem, I can't imagine how he would have lost.
 

Bhagi Katbamna

Hall of Fame
No matter how good Thiem would have played, Djokovic would have found a way to up his level like he has done so many times in the past. I would have given Thiem less than 20% chance of taking it more than 4 sets and 5-10% chance of winning.
 

USO

Professional
When he got disqualified Djokovic was down a break 5-6 against PCB. I don’t think Djokovic was playing invincible tennis in this tournament.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Even at 70% Djoker would have won this final. I can imagine A-Rod watching this final shaking his head saying, “why couldn’t I get one of these ‘mugs’ in my slam finals instead of Fed”.
Well, maybe because Roddick himself was a mug? :)

J/K!
 
It's his own fault that Djokovic didn't win.

Besides, he was losing against PCB when he defaulted.
Plus Nadal and Federer weren't in the tournament anyways. If either of them were in the tournament but the other two weren't, they'd be the favourite.
 

asifallasleep

Hall of Fame
Not a Joker fan but you gotta respect his game. He would have won in straights or in 4 tops against either of these guys.
 
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