<< Oldest racket(s) still in production >>

anirut

Legend
What's ('re) the oldest racket(s) still in production and readily available today? Not considering the re-issues.

I should think it's the original PK 5G & 7G.

What makes them so lasting in the market place in spite of technological changes?
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
But why not include re-issues? Re-issues are still racquets that are in current production and sold in the current market. Besides, racquets like the PS 6.0 85 never ceased production. They were just sold only in selected markets. And even in the U.S. market, before the current TW re-issue, TW still sold the PS 6.0 85 for many years in the mid-to-late-2000's after they had been officially discontinued by Wilson. Now, that's one racquet that has survived all the technological changes over the past four decades. :)
 

Sparkyovcov

Semi-Pro
I wonder though how many new customers buy the wilson 85? My guess is it's loyal customers of this racket from back in the day.
 

m2nk2

Hall of Fame
Most of the technological changes are nothing but marketing gimmicks. I think racquets peaked probably in the late 90s early 00s. Most pros play with old racquets as well, at least a decade old.

I prefer my PS85, it's as good as any modern racquet, but it looks 10 times better.

 
Last edited:

Antónis

Semi-Pro
oldest racket still in production should be the POG, I believe it's been around with minor changes since 1977 or so...

I read somewhere Dunlop as a very small factory in India just to keep a small production of they're legendary Maxplay, apparently they still have some real loyal old school clients there
 

WINZOWAR

Rookie
^^^^ Thanks for that!!! I wouldn't mind having a couple new Maxply Forts. I am going to research this plant in India ... For some reason I thought the Redondo had been around longer than the 5G and 7G.
 

anirut

Legend
oldest racket still in production should be the POG, I believe it's been around with minor changes since 1977 or so...

I read somewhere Dunlop as a very small factory in India just to keep a small production of they're legendary Maxplay, apparently they still have some real loyal old school clients there
MAXPLY? Wow ... gotta find out ...
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
I wonder though how many new customers buy the wilson 85? My guess is it's loyal customers of this racket from back in the day.
Well, we know of several people on this board who were new to the PS 6.0 85 who bought the re-issue. I also never used the PS 6.0 85 back in the day but now use re-issue. :)
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Yes, I agree that the POG is probably the oldest racquet still in production, because anything older than that would have to be made of wood! :shock:

BTW, I find it too hard to believe that they are still making wooden Maxply Forts in India. I would need some verification of this.
 

Lavs

Professional
volkl v1 in its many renditions has been around awhile too.
yes but the last releases are cheaply made - they do not have that solid feel and solidity as early ones:
- Classic V1, 2006 release - on silver cosmetics
- Classic V1, 2000 release - in grey/black cosmetics (with Precise Frame written in throat area)
- Vario V1, 1994 release - the very first batch of this legendary racket.
 

atatu

Hall of Fame
oldest racket still in production should be the POG, I believe it's been around with minor changes since 1977 or so...

I read somewhere Dunlop as a very small factory in India just to keep a small production of they're legendary Maxplay, apparently they still have some real loyal old school clients there
This sounds like a racket collectors myth or urban legend ?

"Yeah I got lost one time walking around New Delhi and I wandered down this alley and through a bazaar, I happened to poke my head into a small warehouse and there, to my shock and surprise, were stacks of new Dunlop Maxply Forts being sold for 2000 rupees. I didn't have time to buy one but the memory of that warehouse has haunted me ever since...."
 

TennisCJC

Legend
yes but the last releases are cheaply made - they do not have that solid feel and solidity as early ones:
- Classic V1, 2006 release - on silver cosmetics
- Classic V1, 2000 release - in grey/black cosmetics (with Precise Frame written in throat area)
- Vario V1, 1994 release - the very first batch of this legendary racket.
I have not hit the Org V1 but I own 3 Org V1 Pros and they are not cheaply made. The organix line has the best feel of anything I have tried in recent years but that is just my opinion.
 

LapsedNoob

Professional
If there is a little place in India making Maxplys I guarantee Dunlop has nothing to do with it.

If they still made some they would be for sale openly just as the MuscleWeave 200 and HotMelt 300 are.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
It's got to be POG OS. And it'd still one of the best frames around.
Funny how two of the best racquets you can buy today (POG and PS 85) have been around for 37 and 32 years, respectively. So much for "new technology" in tennis racquets. :oops:
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
The PS 85 is not in production. TW is the only place you can buy them and they bought a certain number to get production, but they are not currently being made. I would be surprised if, after these are gone, TW bought another run.

The POG was not in continuous production as it was phased out by Prince a few years ago under their previous ownership. Again, TW enticed them to make a run for them for a guaranteed number. The new owners of Prince have reinstated the frame.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
The PS 85 is not in production. TW is the only place you can buy them and they bought a certain number to get production, but they are not currently being made. I would be surprised if, after these are gone, TW bought another run.

The POG was not in continuous production as it was phased out by Prince a few years ago under their previous ownership. Again, TW enticed them to make a run for them for a guaranteed number. The new owners of Prince have reinstated the frame.
Huh? How can new ones be made if they are not in production? :confused:

Besides, the PS 85 has NEVER ceased production. They were continuously being produced from the time they were first introduced in 1983. There were just a couple of short periods of time in which they were not being sold in the U.S., but they were still being sold in some other countries. Thus, they were always being produced by the factory.

If something never stopped being produced, then it never went out of production. I don't think the POG ever stopped being produced, either.

"In production" = currently being produced, as in new ones being manufactured.
 
Huh? How can new ones be made if they are not in production? :confused:

Besides, the PS 85 has NEVER ceased production. They were continuously being produced from the time they were first introduced in 1983. There were just a couple of short periods of time in which they were not being sold in the U.S., but they were still being sold in some other countries. Thus, they were always being produced by the factory.

If something never stopped being produced, then it never went out of production. I don't think the POG ever stopped being produced, either.

"In production" = currently being produced, as in new ones being manufactured.
I sure never saw one here in Sweden growing up... You've gotta have something to back that up, buddy!
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Huh? How can new ones be made if they are not in production? :confused:

Besides, the PS 85 has NEVER ceased production. They were continuously being produced from the time they were first introduced in 1983. There were just a couple of short periods of time in which they were not being sold in the U.S., but they were still being sold in some other countries. Thus, they were always being produced by the factory.

If something never stopped being produced, then it never went out of production. I don't think the POG ever stopped being produced, either.

"In production" = currently being produced, as in new ones being manufactured.
Ever heard of inventory? Please post the link on Wilson's website where the PS 85 is shown in their current lineup. Also show me where Wilson is currently producing and marketing the PS 85.

The POG was dropped several years ago and TW paid for a minimum run. The new owners brought it back. The previous owners totally committed to the O-port strategy which is what lead to Prince's downturn.

This is why TW had a clearance sale on the version they "brought back" when Prince re-introduced the POG.

But hey, don't let facts start swaying you now.

EDIT:

In case you're going to refer to an old picture with a Japanese price tag:

http://www.wilson.co.jp/products/list/w-tennis-racket.html
 
Last edited:
So if you don't see it in Sweden then it must not exist in any other country in the entire world? Then I guess the Eiffel Tower must not exist because you never saw it in Sweden? :)

How about this?

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=237724
Cool!

Though it could just be clearing out NOS sticks, none of us really knows about that!

What I DO know however is that it was never here during the early 2000's, and perhaps not even sold in all of Europe, and for that claim I'm going by the catalogue of a huge Dutch mail-order company who in its heyday were TWE and a bit more and still are their main competitor. Never did I see one in their catalogues...
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
But why not include re-issues? Re-issues are still racquets that are in current production and sold in the current market. Besides, racquets like the PS 6.0 85 never ceased production. They were just sold only in selected markets. And even in the U.S. market, before the current TW re-issue, TW still sold the PS 6.0 85 for many years in the mid-to-late-2000's after they had been officially discontinued by Wilson. Now, that's one racquet that has survived all the technological changes over the past four decades. :)
The PS85 was originally produced in Chicago, then St Vincent before be moved to China manufacturing plant and all rackets are different.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=7112945&postcount=3
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
I read somewhere Dunlop as a very small factory in India just to keep a small production of they're legendary Maxplay, apparently they still have some real loyal old school clients there
If it's produced in India, chances are it is the Maxplay and not the legendary Maxply.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Ever heard of inventory? Please post the link on Wilson's website where the PS 85 is shown in their current lineup. Also show me where Wilson is currently producing and marketing the PS 85.

The POG was dropped several years ago and TW paid for a minimum run. The new owners brought it back. The previous owners totally committed to the O-port strategy which is what lead to Prince's downturn.

This is why TW had a clearance sale on the version they "brought back" when Prince re-introduced the POG.

But hey, don't let facts start swaying you now.

EDIT:

In case you're going to refer to an old picture with a Japanese price tag:

http://www.wilson.co.jp/products/list/w-tennis-racket.html
Again, "in production" = currently being produced, as in new ones being manufactured.

Marketing has nothing to do with it. Companies will continue to manufacture products that they don't bother to market any longer because they've been in the market already for a long time. Companies mostly spend their marketing dollars on NEW products. So just because Wilson does not list the PS 6.0 85 "in their current line-up" does not mean they are not being produced and is still in production.

It is NOT old inventory. All the PS 6.0 85's being sold by TW are recent production, not 10 year-old inventory. All of mine came with BLX butt caps on them.

As long as something is being produced, it is "in production". Same with the POG. You're confusing marketing with manufacturing.
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Cool!

Though it could just be clearing out NOS sticks, none of us really knows about that!

What I DO know however is that it was never here during the early 2000's, and perhaps not even sold in all of Europe, and for that claim I'm going by the catalogue of a huge Dutch mail-order company who in its heyday were TWE and a bit more and still are their main competitor. Never did I see one in their catalogues...
I don't think so, because even earlier when the PS 6.0 85 was no longer widely available in the U.S., they still sold them in Japan with Japan-only graphics on them. Thus, they were still being newly produced for Japan.
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Again, "in production" = currently being produced, as in new ones being manufactured.

Marketing has nothing to do with it. Companies will continue to manufacture products that they don't bother to market any longer because they've been in the market already for a long time. Companies mostly spend their marketing dollars on NEW products. So just because Wilson does not list the PS 6.0 85 "in their current line-up" does not mean they are not being produced and is still in production.

It is NOT old inventory. All the PS 6.0 85's being sold by TW are recent production, not 10 year-old inventory. All of mine came with BLX butt caps on them.

As long as something is being produced, it is "in production". Same with the POG. You're confusing marketing with manufacturing.
Again, simply provide a link to Wilson's website that lists the PS 85. BLX butt caps don't mean diddly as BLX has been around for some time now. BLX hasn't been around ten years, but it has been around. I don't remember the exact date TW bought a run, but BLX was probably extant at the time.

Here is a link to the Wilson store. If the PS 85 was still produced, one would logically think Wilson would sell it. Maybe you can find it on their online store:

http://www.wilson.com/en-us/tennis/rackets/

I cannot.

Edit:

Please note that if you had an inclination and the cash, Wilson would happily make a minimum order for you. So the question then is semantics. Production to me indicates something regularly made and marketed. What you are describing is in my view a special order or one off; no matter that one store in Japan and one in the US orders a run, it's not production...it's a special order. To say "continually in production" then is a falsehood.
 
Last edited:

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Again, simply provide a link to Wilson's website that lists the PS 85. BLX butt caps don't mean diddly as BLX has been around for some time now. BLX hasn't been around ten years, but it has been around. I don't remember the exact date TW bought a run, but BLX was probably extant at the time.

Here is a link to the Wilson store. If the PS 85 was still produced, one would logically think Wilson would sell it. Maybe you can find it on their online store:

http://www.wilson.com/en-us/tennis/rackets/

I cannot.
Is Wilson obligated to sell everything it makes on its online store? :confused:

They have recently switched to the latest style black Wilson butt caps on the latest production from the gold BLX butt caps they put on them over the past 3 years:




This is the same butt cap that goes on the latest PS 90:
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-WPS61G.html

We also know these are new production because they are flexier (62RA vs. 66RA) and have lower swingweights (321 vs. 329) than the older China version. I didn't like the previously produced ones. I do like these newly produced ones.

These are all current websites:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%83%E3%83%956-0-%E6%B5%B7%E5%A4%96%E6%AD%A3%E8%A6%8F%E5%93%81%EF%BC%89%EF%BC%88-Wilson-staff6-0-WRT5914/dp/B00607LEZW%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJXPWUS3JPZOEBEGQ%26tag%3Dauctools-22%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00607LEZW

http://www.tennis-nta.com/item/1426.html

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/amuse37/010025914/?scid=af_pc_etc&sc2id=67649313

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/notouchace/732325/?scid=af_pc_etc&sc2id=67649313

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/ytennis-shop/5682/?scid=af_pc_etc&sc2id=67649313

When Wilson stopped selling the PS 6.0 85 in the U.S. market a few years ago, they were still making them and selling them in at least Japan, and perhaps elsewhere. I was monitoring the Japanese market at the time. So Wilson was making them then and are still making them now. Thus, they never ceased production of the PS 6.0 85.

You are being myopic if you think companies only manufacture products for the U.S. market. Lots and lots of products are made by U.S. companies but are not sold in the U.S.
 
Last edited:

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
Edit:

Please note that if you had an inclination and the cash, Wilson would happily make a minimum order for you. So the question then is semantics. Production to me indicates something regularly made and marketed. What you are describing is in my view a special order or one off; no matter that one store in Japan and one in the US orders a run, it's not production...it's a special order. To say "continually in production" then is a falsehood.
pro·duc·tion

prəˈdəkSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: production
1.
the action of making or manufacturing from components or raw materials, or the process of being so manufactured.
"the production of chemical weapons"
synonyms:manufacture, making, construction, building, fabrication, assembly, creation; mass-production
"the production of washing machines"


If it's currently being produced in a factory, it is "in production". It has nothing to do with marketing or where they sell it or if it's in a catalog (online or otherwise), etc.

Manufacturing is not marketing.
 
Last edited:

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
"Yeah I got lost one time walking around New Delhi and I wandered down this alley and through a bazaar, I happened to poke my head into a small warehouse and there, to my shock and surprise, were stacks of new Dunlop Maxply Forts being sold for 2000 rupees. I didn't have time to buy one but the memory of that warehouse has haunted me ever since...."
Yep, and over in the corner is a little old, white-haired man making PS 6.0 85s. :wink:
 

anirut

Legend
To repeat my original question:

"What's ('re) the oldest racket(s) still in production and readily available today? Not considering the re-issues."

Note the AND logic as well as the 'not considering the re-issues'

Yes, some rackets are still in production (by whatever means), but are not readily available (as in my part of the world).

Yes, some rackets are still in production (by whatever means), but they are re-issues, which fail the criteria of MY question.

So, what rackets out there meet the criteria in my original question?
 

BlueB

Legend
So where and how to draw a line? Like, for instance, the Head Radical has been around for a pretty long time. However, it has been through so many changes from one gen to another that it is not the same racquet. Then some reissues stayed true to the original...
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
To repeat my original question:

"What's ('re) the oldest racket(s) still in production and readily available today? Not considering the re-issues."

Note the AND logic as well as the 'not considering the re-issues'

Yes, some rackets are still in production (by whatever means), but are not readily available (as in my part of the world).

Yes, some rackets are still in production (by whatever means), but they are re-issues, which fail the criteria of MY question.

So, what rackets out there meet the criteria in my original question?
But what really is the definition of a "re-issue"? Is it only a racquet that ceased production for some period of time and then production was started again some years later? Such as when Dunlop recently began producing the MW 200G and the HM 300G again after having stopped producing them for many years? Is that the definition of a "re-issue"?

Because if we accept the premise that the PS 6.0 85 was continuously produced from the time it was first introduced in 1983, but only that it stopped being sold in the U.S. for a couple of years, then can we really call it a "re-issue"?
 

dr325i

Legend
BP: I do believe these are a new run of the PS85, however:
1) the buttcap thing may be misleading as if Wilson had the old pile of sticks sitting somewhere, they would most likely sit there in the hairpin form and not wrapped up with a 15 year old leather.
2) As someone pointed out, for some cash, wilson will do a min production run. The fact that TW has the exclusivity on these (according to TW) tells me that is exactly what happened.
 

dr325i

Legend
Head MG Radical MP re-issue is NOT the same racket that was issued around 2008 or so. It feels stiffer and different. I currently have (2 of ) the old version (Pro stock though, TGK231.1) and the current version of MGRadMP (3) and the flex (and feel) difference is considerably different.
 

McLovin

Legend
Not sure if this counts, but if the following post by Automatix is correct, then it should be in the running:
Pacific via Automatix said:
PACIFIC Tennis – Continuing a Tour Tradition – (re)Introducing:

PACIFIC X Force PRO No.1 # 252
The GRAND SLAM WINNER
The ATP #1 PLAYER RACKET


There are a few select racket designs that have remained a performance standard among the worlds-best-tennis-players. These unique designs have withstood the test of time and remain the most sought after rackets on the Tour.

As new technologies & designs come & go, some of which do establish a new version of performance that benefits many of today’s players, there also remains a strong demand by top-players for the consistent ‘feel’ and unmatched precision that can only be achieved by first building upon a Legendary Classic’s original design.

Using slight technology improvements available today, incorporated into what is commonly referred to as a: ‘Legend’, bring together the best of yesterday & today.

Long regarded as one of these unique rackets in the original Fischer PRO N0.1 - still found today being used today by numerous top-players.

Enter now, the X Force PRO No.1 #252.
The tradition and success of the “252” mold speaks for itself. From Yevgeny Kafelnikov, Lukas Dlouhy, Marcos Baghdatis, to many, many others – without a doubt, the ‘252’ mold was the #1 most requested/used racket of any/all Fischer Tour Players!

PACIFIC respecting the tradition, heritage, and unique performance of the ‘252’ mold, has successfully brought it back to life with updating this masterpiece by adding BX2.

The new X Force PRO No.1 # 252 remains unchanged in the geometry and technical construction of the original version – new updates for today’s game are with a stronger/faster & updated material addition (BX2) more precise handle system and overall more consisted (‘tighter’) specifications in the manufacturing process.

We have NOT changed a ‘Legend’ – we HAVE made it better!
 

Rabbit

G.O.A.T.
Is Wilson obligated to sell everything it makes on its online store? :confused:
You simply cannot be that obtuse, or maybe you can.

So Wilson would knowingly and deliberately not put one of their current frames on their website where they sell all of their other frames? Just the one???? The entire product line save the ProStaff 85 is on the website???? Every single racquet except the ProStaff....

Yeah.....you're right........it's just the one that Wilson chooses to make and not sell......that's it.....
 

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
You simply cannot be that obtuse, or maybe you can.

So Wilson would knowingly and deliberately not put one of their current frames on their website where they sell all of their other frames? Just the one???? The entire product line save the ProStaff 85 is on the website???? Every single racquet except the ProStaff....

Yeah.....you're right........it's just the one that Wilson chooses to make and not sell......that's it.....
How do you know Wilson lists every single one of the frames that they make on their website if it's NOT on their website? Do you happen to work at the Wilson factory in China?

Look at the limited number of Nike wristbands that Nike sells on its own online store: http://**************/us/en_us/pw/mens-tennis-gear/7puZbqtZ8r0

Now look at the number of Nike wristbands that TW sells: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/ApparelHWbands.html

Companies don't always sell everything it makes on its online store. It seems like every day I run across a company that makes a product which is not sold on their online store.

The PS 6.0 85 is not a "current" frame. It's an old model that they are still producing but not marketing themselves, but only sold through select distributors. I guess you've never heard of private label production, either.

Again, you're confusing marketing (e.g., online store) with manufacturing. Wilson is not going to put a penny behind marketing a 32 year-old racquet like the PS 6.0 85. They'll leave it up to their distributors to sell it.

But do you know which racquet is definitely out of production? The Head Vilas. Why? Because no new ones are being produced so if you want one you'll have to buy an old used one manufactured a long time ago. Not true with the PS 6.0 85. It is still in production so you can buy a newly produced one that was manufactured in the factory just a few months earlier.
 
Last edited:

BreakPoint

Bionic Poster
BP: I do believe these are a new run of the PS85, however:
1) the buttcap thing may be misleading as if Wilson had the old pile of sticks sitting somewhere, they would most likely sit there in the hairpin form and not wrapped up with a 15 year old leather.
2) As someone pointed out, for some cash, wilson will do a min production run. The fact that TW has the exclusivity on these (according to TW) tells me that is exactly what happened.
Since TW brought back the PS 6.0 85 in 2011, they have received many thousands of frames from Wilson (I've asked). No way Wilson had that many frames sitting around for that long for that many years.

Other clear indicators that these are newly produced frames are:
1. They have different graphics inside the throat than the last China versions from the mid-2000's.
2. They have different specs than the previous versions (62RA and 321SW vs. 66RA and 329SW).

TW may have an exclusive in the U.S. market, but not worldwide. They are widely available in Japan and have been for many years. What I suspect happened is that Wilson never ceased production of the PS 6.0 85 but continuously produced them over the years for markets outside of the U.S. The Japanese market probably wanted a more "Asian spec", which is lighter and easier to swing and more flexy. When TW decided to bring the racquet back to the U.S. market, they simply tagged along onto this production of the "Asian spec" frames. So Wilson is not producing these just for TW, they are producing them for Japan (and perhaps other markets) and TW is just importing some of this production. Sure, Wilson has had to increase its production to also supply TW (so they needed a commitment of minimum quantities from TW) but it is part of the same production run for other markets and they are not just making them only for TW.


Last version produced around 2005-2008. No, that is not a sticker inside the throat but a graphic with specs.







And the throat specs of the new ones currently being produced (on top of one from the previous version from a few years ago):

 
Last edited:

Bogdan_TT

Professional
I wonder though how many new customers buy the wilson 85? My guess is it's loyal customers of this racket from back in the day.
Nope. I bought one, since Sampras was my idol. Now it became my main stick together with the RF97. I'm really considering buying the second one plus some grommets.

The PS85 is by far my fav racquet. It has plow, precision, it's good for serving, slices, net. The forehand is amazingly precise, both left/right as well as depth. And the flex makes it great for the arm.

I use it when the opponent is not using tons of spin/kick, or when I have too much adrenaline. I switch to RF97 when I get tired or when I need a bigger head.
 
Top