On a mission

You do realise atleast Djokovic fans can dream of cygs, because he was in position but Rafa fans can dream of such thing
She is funniest of them all. This would be the same like the Tottenham Hotspurs fans mocking the Manchester City fans that their team failed to win 4 Premier leagues in a row. Ridiculous stuff... :oops:

Gloating that Djokovic didn't win the CYGS!? After Nadal 21 season and the fact that he never even came close to that achievement in the first place!? What the hell!?
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
he said what most on this board predicted including you
Me????

1) I don't do predictions
2) I will never predict Rafa to lose a match to anyone.

If you present me with any evidence of me predicting that Rafa would lose to Djokovic at RG 2020 or to anyone anywhere, please post here.
I have never seen these threads and wouldn't contribute to them even if I had.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Why are you cheating the readers?

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/imagine-you-are-goran-ivanisevic.686917/

And these are whole "imagine" threads. Not single posts like the post you quoted in the Hitman's reply.
he said what most on this board predicted including you
Me????

1) I don't do predictions
2) I will never predict Rafa to lose a match to anyone.

If you present me with any evidence of me predicting that Rafa would lose to Djokovic at RG 2020 or to anyone anywhere, please post here.
She is funniest of them all. This would be the same like the Tottenham Hotspurs fans mocking the Manchester City fans that their team failed to win 4 Premier leagues in a row. Ridiculous stuff... :oops:

Gloating that Djokovic didn't win the CYGS!? After Nadal 21 season and the fact that he never even came close to that achievement in the first place!? What the hell!?
Yea, laugh at Rafa suffering from injury.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Novak has 6 titles to his name, Federer has 8.

The conversation is about who makes the top 3 on every surface, and are you seriously telling me that Novak's is NOT in conversation for a top three spot, when only two other players have more Wimbledon titles than him in the open era?

Yes Novak is not in top 3

Federer, William Renshaw and Sampras are top 3

 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Yes Novak is not in top 3

Federer, William Renshaw and Sampras are top 3

Renshaw is not in open era, look at the post of mine you quoted.

And remember you yourself say you don't like including Laver in GOAT comparison as he is too much from the past...where do you think Renshaw fits then? ;)
 

Sunny014

Legend
Renshaw is not in open era, look at the post of mine you quoted.

And remember you yourself say you don't like including Laver in GOAT comparison as he is too much from the past...where do you think Renshaw fits then? ;)
Problem is his wins are vs an old washed out Fed, old Nadal, Smurfs like Anderson, Berretini and on top of that he lost to Murray of all people which is an unpardonable offence for an ATG at his peak

Not sure whether he should be rated this high or not, he is definitely a tier below Fed and Sampras. Overrated Borg and Mr Mcenroe have a good case of being rated ahead of Novak or definetly on par despite Novak's 6 titles
 

Bilders

Semi-Pro
Would be nice to see Novak say just once that his father doesn't speak for him. Would also further separate his father's ridiculous comments from himself.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Hey what is 209 ? I didn't understand .
Nadal's weeks at #1, which is an outstanding amount. More impressive though is his 5 YE at #1, which is the same as Federer. Hopefully, Novak will get his 7th YE at #1 this year, which would probably be his last chance to break Pete's record.
 
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Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Problem is his wins are vs an old washed out Fed, old Nadal, Smurfs like Anderson, Berretini and on top of that he lost to Murray of all people which is an unpardonable offence for an ATG at his peak

Not sure whether he should be rated this high or not, he is definitely a tier below Fed and Sampras. Overrated Borg and Mr Mcenroe have a good case of being rated ahead of Novak or definetly on par despite Novak's 6 titles
He has 6 Wimbledon titles, that is how it stands, we can make subjective claims about who was what level all we want, but no way does McEnroe with half the amount of Wimbledon titles rank above him. Titles matter here.

Novak maybe a notch below Federer and Sampras as it stands right now, but he still has a massive case for the third spot, that cannot be swept away. 6 titles is too much to ignore.
 

Sunny014

Legend
He has 6 Wimbledon titles, that is how it stands, we can make subjective claims about who was what level all we want, but no way does McEnroe with half the amount of Wimbledon titles rank above him. Titles matter here.

Novak maybe a notch below Federer and Sampras as it stands right now, but he still has a massive case for the third spot, that cannot be swept away. 6 titles is too much to ignore.
Those 6 titles are inferior.
He is not as good as Mencroe or Borg.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
He has 6 Wimbledon titles, that is how it stands, we can make subjective claims about who was what level all we want, but no way does McEnroe with half the amount of Wimbledon titles rank above him. Titles matter here.

Novak maybe a notch below Federer and Sampras as it stands right now, but he still has a massive case for the third spot, that cannot be swept away. 6 titles is too much to ignore.
EXCELLENT POST! Fact IS no-one else was going to beat Federer in their 3 Wimbledon finals, no matter how old Roger was those years.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
She is funniest of them all. This would be the same like the Tottenham Hotspurs fans mocking the Manchester City fans that their team failed to win 4 Premier leagues in a row. Ridiculous stuff... :oops:

Gloating that Djokovic didn't win the CYGS!? After Nadal 21 season and the fact that he never even came close to that achievement in the first place!? What the hell!?
LMAO! The irony!! You're one of the biggest schmuck's here....
 

Sunny014

Legend
EXCELLENT POST! Fact IS no-one else was going to beat Federer in their 3 Wimbledon finals, no matter how old Roger was those years.
Federer being ahead of the rest of the field is not an indicator of Federer being a worthy rival to Novak in mid-late 2010s.
At least not a level where we expect ATGs to be challenged by someone young enough to match them in energy levels and power.
 

thrust

Hall of Fame
Yes Novak is not in top 3

Federer, William Renshaw and Sampras are top 3

Renshaw? Pre Historic History. Back then I think the previous year champ only had to play the final, as he got bye to the finals? Roger has the most Wimbledon finals but played there several more years than Pete, who never lost a final while Roger lost 4 finals. Also, Pete played Wimbledon when there were more outstanding grass court players than recently. Still, I would rank Roger slightly better on grass than Pete, then Djokovic, then Borg.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Renshaw? Pre Historic History. Back then I think the previous year champ only had to play the final, as he got bye to the finals? Roger has the most Wimbledon finals but played there several more years than Pete, who never lost a final while Roger lost 4 finals. Also, Pete played Wimbledon when there were more outstanding grass court players than recently. Still, I would rank Roger slightly better on grass than Pete, then Djokovic, then Borg.
Losing in 4 finals is better than losing in 2nd round or retiring .....

Roger had better quality rivals

01. Djokovic (7 finals)
02. Peak Nadal (5 Finals and 1 explosive semifinal where he could have won the title if not stopped by Djokovic)
03. Peak Roddick (3 Finals and 1 explosive semifinal where he could have won the title if not stopped by Roger)
04. Peak Mooray (4 finals)

Sampras's best rival IVANISEVIC is at best on par with Murray or Roddick

So much for strong rivals ....
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
“The Olympics and the US Open are obviously my biggest objectives for the remainder of the season, and it’s going to be demanding. But I am full of confidence and motivated to represent Serbia in the best possible way. I am yearning for a medal in Tokyo, hopefully, gold, and then I’ll go to New York aiming to complete it all", the 'Djoker' added.
Oooooops!




(He blew both "biggest objectives," and did not get even a bronze in Tokyo.)
 
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Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Again, one more time since you’re not wearing your reading glasses.

how many slams did Sampras miss because of his “blood issue”?
So does missing a slam qualify as the only factor in deciding if you are 100% fully fit to compete for a slam? Lets a remove a fraction of oxygen carrying haemoglobulin from your blood and starve your contracile muscle tissue of oxygen, then make you do sprints in all directions for several hours with little time to recover and after let me know just how well you are doing.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
So does missing a slam qualify as the only factor in deciding if you are 100% fully fit to compete for a slam? Lets a remove a fraction of oxygen carrying haemoglobulin from your blood and starve your contracile muscle tissue of oxygen, then make you do sprints in all directions for several hours with little time to recover and after let me know just how well you are doing.
So you know for a fact that Sampras was deficient of a fraction of haemoglobin when he was competiting? As Rafa says, most players play with some kind of niggle all the time; it is when the pain and discomfort is too high that they get sidelined and that didn't happen to Sampras that much because he was able to compete at a high level. On the other hand it has happened to Rafa quite often causing him to miss chunks of the season several times.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
So you know for a fact that Sampras was deficient of a fraction of haemoglobin when he was competiting? As Rafa says, most players play with some kind of niggle all the time; it is when the pain and discomfort is too high that they get sidelined and that didn't happen to Sampras that much because he was able to compete at a high level. On the other hand it has happened to Rafa quite often causing him to miss chunks of the season several times.
Yes he was. This is well documented during Pete's time, it is a genetic disorder that impacts groups of people from the Med.

The fact you are trying to quantify how bad the issue was is wrong. Pete was able to do better on faster surfaces because points ended quicker. On slower surfaces, it impacted him more. This is not a discomfort, this is a player unable to get the same amount of oxygen to his blood that a normal person can. The fact he still dud what he did shows how good he was, and quite simply if he did not have that legendary serve, he would have struggled even more.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes he was. This is well documented during Pete's time, it is a genetic disorder that impacts groups of people from the Med.

The fact you are trying to quantify how bad the issue was is wrong. Pete was able to do better on faster surfaces because points ended quicker. On slower surfaces, it impacted him more. This is not a discomfort, this is a player unable to get the same amount of oxygen to his blood that a normal person can. The fact he still dud what he did shows how good he was, and quite simply if he did not have that legendary serve, he would have struggled even more.
Sampras only missed 4 slams after winning his first at the USO in 1990. I am not saying thalassemia is not a debilitating disease, I'm just saying it was controlled enough to allow him to compete.
 
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Hitman

G.O.A.T.
Sampras only missed 4 slams after winning his first at the USO in 1990.
What has that got to do with his inability to replenish intramuscular oxygen levels and the removal of lactic acid. He played impaired his whole life.

As I said, you cannot just say only if someone missed a slam were they not fully healthy. Pete never has had normal blood oxygen levels. If you are purposefully trying to underplay this to keep up the Rafa was victim of not being in peak health, it wom't work on those who know anything about Pete.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
What has that got to do with his inability to replenish intramuscular oxygen levels and the removal of lactic acid. He played impaired his whole life.

As I said, you cannot just say only if someone missed a slam were they not fully healthy. Pete never has had normal blood oxygen levels. If you are purposefully trying to underplay this to keep up the Rafa was victim of not being in peak health, it wom't work on those who know anything about Pete.
No, I'm not pitting Sampras against Rafa. Physiological diseases can be controlled by medicine but physical impairment cannot just be controlled by taking medication. I think it's you who started pitting Sampras's ailment against Rafa's.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
No, I'm not pitting Sampras against Rafa. Physiological diseases can be controlled by medicine but physical impairment cannot just be controlled by taking medication. I think it's you who started pitting Sampras's ailment against Rafa's.
Nope. I responded to a Nadal fan who made it look like only Nadal was fighting against issues.

And no again, Sampras's issue is genetic, no medicine can increase mRNA transcription for amino acid sequencing for haemoglobulin, a globular serum protein that binds and transports oxygen to the muscles. The telomeres in his chromosones lack the markers to the degree normal people have them.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Nope. I responded to a Nadal fan who made it look like only Nadal was fighting against issues.

And no again, Sampras's issue is genetic, no medicine can increase mRNA transcription for amino acid sequencing for haemoglobulin, a globular serum protein that binds and transports oxygen to the muscles. The telomeres in his chromosones lack the markers to the degree normal people have them.
So you are saying that no one should mention Rafa's issues just because other people have issues? Sampras did very well, considering, but so has Rafa.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
So you are saying that no one should mention Rafa's issues just because other people have issues? Sampras did very well, considering, but so has Rafa.
No. I am saying that mentioning ONLY Rafa's issues, and not acknowledging others when making comparison is infair and misleading.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
No. I am saying that mentioning ONLY Rafa's issues, and not acknowledging others when making comparison is infair and misleading.
We can only go by how much their condition impeded their full participation in tournaments.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
We can only go by how much their condition impeded their full participation in tournaments.
No, we can't.

Because if you are only allowed to play if you are 100 healthy normal, Pete would not have been able to play a single match. He played impaired his whole life.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
No, we can't.

Because if you are only allowed to play if you are 100 healthy normal, Pete would not have been able to play a single match. He played impaired his whole life.
No one 'allows' anyone to play it's entirely up to the player and if they are in so much pain that they can't compete, then they can't play. Rafa has tried playing numerous times whilst injured knowing he couldn't win but just keeping his side of the bargain i.e if he's been paid appearance fees or it's a major final and people have paid to watch the match.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
No one 'allows' anyone to play it's entirely up to the player and if they are in so much pain that they can't compete, then they can't play. Rafa has tried playing numerous times whilst injured knowing he couldn't win but just keeping his side of the bargain i.e if he's been paid appearance fees or it's a major final and people have paid to watch the match.
So, what are we arguing here then, seems we both understand and agree that they both had issues they dealt with, and you cannot put one above the other.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
So, what are we arguing here then, seems we both understand and agree that they both had issues they dealt with, and you cannot put one above the other.
But it's allowed to talk about Rafa's injuries without mentioning Sampras's injuries.
 

Hitman

G.O.A.T.
But it's allowed to talk about Rafa's injuries without mentioning Sampras's injuries.
Yes.

But its NOT allowed to talk about Nadal's injuries in a direct comparison with Sampras and not mention Sampras' problems also. Because you are telling a half truth, the narrative only talking about Nadal's struggle makes it look like Sampras had no struggles of his own.

If I said to you that Sampras won all those slams and got those weeks at number one while dealing with physical problems, imagine how much more stronger his numbers could have been....you will immediately jump up to tell that Rafa also dealt with problems.

In a direct comparison, you compare them both, failure to ack one side either means you are incredibly biased, or simply don't care because it goes against the narrative.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes.

But its NOT allowed to talk about Nadal's injuries in a direct comparison with Sampras and not mention Sampras' problems also. Because you are telling a half truth, the narrative only talking about Nadal's struggle makes it look like Sampras had no struggles of his own.

If I said to you that Sampras won all those slams and got those weeks at number one while dealing with physical problems, imagine how much more stronger his numbers could have been....you will immediately jump up to tell that Rafa also dealt with problems.

In a direct comparison, you compare them both, failure to ack one side either means you are incredibly biased, or simply don't care because it goes against the narrative.
How much does Sampras pay you to be his advocate?
 
D

Deleted member 771911

Guest
Top 3 on surfaces.
Hard. Federer, Djokovic, Sampras
Grass. Sampras, Federer, Borg
Clay. Nadal, Borg, Kuerten.
 
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