On the eye test is Berdych as good as Roddick?

[sportsfan1]

Berdych is inferior in almost every aspect. He's a crap (top) player, let's stop pretending he's anything but.

He went 5-4 against Federer between 2010-2013. In the 2009 AO, he was up 2 sets to none over Fed, and then lost the last three sets and of course the match, so there were probably latent choking tendencies always. But current Berd is a shadow of the one from several years ago.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You are the biggest joker here when it comes to Hewitt. You only just conceded that Murray was better than Hewitt at Roland Garros this year.

I'm a joker because I give him the credit he deserves?

I only just conceded Murray is better than Hewitt because he has won more than he has, it has nothing to do with level of play which I rate them quite evenly on (and I am not alone on that one). Why don't you go back to talking about how Fed is at his peak today along with the fact he's a "junkballer"?

The 'eye test' confirmed Murray's superiority back in 2012.

Here's a video of Hewitt at his best though (seeing as you started watching tennis recently and don't know squat).

Looks about as good as Murray here to be honest. Difference between them is that Murray can bring that level more often than Hewitt did.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

He went 5-4 against Federer between 2010-2013. In the 2009 AO, he was up 2 sets to none over Fed, and then lost the last three sets and of course the match, so there were probably latent choking tendencies always. But current Berd is a shadow of the one from several years ago.

If he was so great he'd have won something by now.

I also bet Roddick and the like would win more against Federer if they happened to play him between 2010-2013 (yeah I know Roddick was around but he was far from his peak at that point).

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Federer gave that match to Lleyton.

Nobody gives matches away. Hewitt won fair and square, stop denying the fact you're wrong.

Hewitt >> Roddick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berdych.

 

[Meles]

Berdych is less of a tool than Roddick.

Berdych wrote the book

I hate Pushdick, but Berdy and those kits.

 

[Meles]

Not trying to pretend for a moment that Berdych is anyway 'greater' than Roddick, but on the eye test he's just as good.

Discuss.

On the eye test Berdych is just as big a tool as Roddick.

 

[Meles]

Roddick was sometimes vulnerable to the big servers...they took him off his rhythm and rattled him. Obviously the 04 USO QF is the best example.

Roddick's first return was pretty horrific for a top player, so stats concur.

 

[Meles]

If there ever was a poster to deserve the moniker "stupidest ever" it's certainly @YetAnotherFedFan.

Pretty much, but gotta give credit for a Berdych fan taking up the fight. Time for name change to @NoOtherBerdFan

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Nobody gives matches away. Hewitt won fair and square, stop denying the fact you're wrong.

Hewitt >> Roddick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berdych.

In terms of achievements yes. As to their actual skills, I am more circumspect.

If Berdych was born the same year as Hewitt and Hewitt the same year as Berdych it could be Berdych sitting on two grand slams. I'll give it to you though, Hewitt might still have one a Halle

 

[heninfan99]

Really Nalby should have beaten Andrew in the semis of his US Open.
Berdych is the better player via eye test, no question.

Roddick has a million dollar serve though.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

In terms of achievements yes. As to their actual skills, I am more circumspect.

In terms of skill and achievements Hewitt trumps Berdych. No contest.

If Berdych was born the same year as Hewitt and Hewitt the same year as Berdych it could be Berdych sitting on two grand slams. I'll give it to you though, Hewitt might still have one a Halle

Doubt it. He'd lose to a guy like Henman at Wimbledon and a guy like Agassi or Sampras at the USO. People forget Hewitt made Sampras his pigeon well before the rapid decline in 2001, but Sampras would absolutely crush Berdych even in his 2001 form.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

I also firmly believe Hewitt would probably win 1 or 2 majors if he played during Berdych's time period. Guy is good enough and with Federer out of his way, he could defeat a guy like Nadal or maybe even Djokovic for a major (guy beat guys like Agassi and Sampras, Agassi not in a major but quite a few times outside one when he was still arguably in his prime).

 

[NatF]

Doubt it. He'd lose to a guy like Henman at Wimbledon and a guy like Agassi or Sampras at the USO. People forget Hewitt made Sampras his pigeon well before the rapid decline in 2001, but Sampras would absolutely crush Berdych even in his 2001 form.

Don't bother with that guy man, Berdych even in his best years never put together runs against top players like Hewitt did.

 

[Djokovic2011]

Roddick at his best was the better player but let's not make out his peak level was anything extraordinary or unique, it really wasn't. From a personal standpoint I'd rather watch Berdych any day of the week.

 

[InsideOut900]

I also firmly believe Hewitt would probably win 1 or 2 majors if he played during Berdych's time period. Guy is good enough and with Federer out of his way, he could defeat a guy like Nadal or maybe even Djokovic for a major (guy beat guys like Agassi and Sampras, Agassi not in a major but quite a few times outside one when he was still arguably in his prime).

Depends on which period would overlap with peak Hewitt. I doubt he wins a Slam during 2007-2011. Same as Murray,he would have his chances at USO 12 and Wimby 2013,even with Murray in the draw and of course weaker tournaments like Wimby and USO this year assuming his 2004-2005 overlaps with 2015-2016.

Roddick at his best was the better player but let's not make out his peak level was anything extraordinary or unique.

Au contraire,he nearly beat Federer in 2009 at Wimbledon and choked the 2004 final.
Their are barely any players in history who could do that,not Berdych,not even Murray,Hewitt or even Djokovic.

His USO peak in 2003 and 2007 is up there or better than Hewitt,Murray too.

 

[Checkmate]

Roddick at his best was the better player but let's not make out his peak level was anything extraordinary or unique, it really wasn't. From a personal standpoint I'd rather watch Berdych any day of the week.

I would watch Roddick serving all day long than a Berdych match.

 

[NatF]

Roddick at his best was the better player but let's not make out his peak level was anything extraordinary or unique, it really wasn't. From a personal standpoint I'd rather watch Berdych any day of the week.

His USO and Wimbledon level is up there with most of the guys that have won those events since 2009. So not unique but clearly better than Berdych, and better than you want to give credit for.

 

[Checkmate]

Was Roddick ever double bageled ?

 

[NatF]

Was Roddick ever double bageled ?

Nah, but that's never going to happen with Roddick's serve. He's been bagelled 6 times in his career (7 including juniors);

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=AndyRoddick&f=ACareerqqQ9

Berdych has been bagelled 21 times That's a stat for you @Krish872007

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=TomasBerdych&f=ACareerqqQ9

 

[Djokovic2011]

I would watch Roddick serving all day long than a Berdych match.

Lol, I'd rather watch paint dry, which incidentally I'm doing right now as I have the decorators round. Berdych's forehand in full flight >>> any shot of Roddick's but if you feel otherwise that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[NatF]

Lol, I'd rather watch paint dry, which incidentally I'm doing right now as I have the decorators round. Berdych's forehand in full flight >>> any shot of Roddick's but if you feel otherwise that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.

I assume you mean better looking not more effective

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Depends on which period would overlap with peak Hewitt. I doubt he wins a Slam during 2007-2011. Same as Murray,he would have his chances at USO 12 and Wimby 2013,even with Murray in the draw and of course weaker tournaments like Wimby and USO this year assuming his 2004-2005 overlaps with 2015-2016.

Probably wouldn't win slams between 2007-2011, but I think he could win the ones you pointed out. His career would be Murray-lite, but still way better than Berdych.

His USO peak in 2003 and 2007 is up there or better than Hewitt,Murray too.

I don't know if Roddick's peak at the USO was better than Hewitt or Murray, but he was better at Wimbledon than Hewitt I know that much, even though he never lifted the trophy he crushed him on grass in 2004 when both were at their peak.

Hewitt made at least the QF at the USO from 2000 until 2006. Roddick didn't have the same consistency there, but his record at Wimbledon was a lot better.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Lol, I'd rather watch paint dry, which incidentally I'm doing right now as I have the decorators round. Berdych's forehand in full flight >>> any shot of Roddick's but if you feel otherwise that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.

Are you serious? Berdych hits the cover off the ball, sure, but he isn't as good at placing those shots as Roddick. Just saying.

 

[Djokovic2011]

I assume you mean better looking not more effective

Yeah, better looking. I've always loved the effortless power he can generate on his forehand side - it's an incredible shot when he's playing at his very best(which admittedly isn't that often these days).

 

[NatF]

I don't know if Roddick's peak at the USO was better than Hewitt or Murray, but he was better at Wimbledon than Hewitt I know that much, even though he never lifted the trophy he crushed him on grass in 2004 when both were at their peak.

Hewitt made at least the QF at the USO from 2000 until 2006. Roddick didn't have the same consistency there, but his record at Wimbledon was a lot better.

Hewitt didn't hit top form again until Wimbledon in 2004, he served for the first set but made some uncharacteristic errors at Queens. Not a real peak for peak match, Hewitt was way better at Queens the years he won it in 00-03. Hewitt's level at Wimbledon in 02 and 04 is up there with Arod's or there abouts as well IMO.

At the USO Roddick was really great in 2003, apart from the match against Nalbandian he was crushing the ball. He was great in 04 as well really but didn't convert against a big server. His form in 06-07 would have been converted into at least 1 win in the last few years.

Yeah, better looking. I've always loved the effortless power he can generate on his forehand side - it's an incredible shot when he's playing at his very best(which admittedly isn't that often these days).

Yeah I wish I could generate such easy power

I prefer to watch Roddick but I can see the appeal in Berdych.

 

[mike danny]

Roddick at his best was the better player but let's not make out his peak level was anything extraordinary or unique, it really wasn't. From a personal standpoint I'd rather watch Berdych any day of the week.

Berdych would never play a slam final against a top player like Roddick did in 2004 and 2009 Wimb finals.

Berdych at whatever level would be a player every top player with just an ounce of mental strength would like to play in a slam final. Roddick would have cherished playing Berdych instead of Federer.

 

[mike danny]

Hewitt didn't hit top form again until Wimbledon in 2004, he served for the first set but made some uncharacteristic errors at Queens. Not a real peak for peak match, Hewitt was way better at Queens the years he won it in 00-03. Hewitt's level at Wimbledon in 02 and 04 is up there with Arod's or there abouts as well IMO.

At the USO Roddick was really great in 2003, apart from the match against Nalbandian he was crushing the ball. He was great in 04 as well really but didn't convert against a big server. His form in 06-07 would have been converted into at least 1 win in the last few years.



Yeah I wish I could generate such easy power

I prefer to watch Roddick but I can see the appeal in Berdych.

Hewitt played pretty well at AO in 2004. He just ran into Fed early. Even then he still won the 1st set, the only time during Fed's peak that he took the first set against him in a slam match.

 

[NatF]

Hewitt played pretty well at AO in 2004. He just ran into Fed early. Even then he still won the 1st set, the only time during Fed's peak that he took the first set against him in a slam match.

Hewitt was in decent form at the time, was excellent at Rottadam - he took the first set against Federer at the AO but once Roger raised his game it was all over for Lleyton. Some stunning rallies though. I think if Hewitt got by Nalbandian he would have taken the event, but Nalbandian was better than he was in 2005 and Hewitt was worse. Would have been very tough to pull that out.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

In terms of skill and achievements Hewitt trumps Berdych. No contest.


Doubt it. He'd lose to a guy like Henman at Wimbledon and a guy like Agassi or Sampras at the USO. People forget Hewitt made Sampras his pigeon well before the rapid decline in 2001, but Sampras would absolutely crush Berdych even in his 2001 form.

Hehe, next you'll be telling us Kyrgios made Federer his pigeon.

Incidentally, weren't you the wise guy who coined the term 'transitional champion' to describe Djokovic?

Look achievements aside, and just marking the players like in a diving competition, you would have Federer at 9.96 Roddick and Hewitt at about 9.60 and Berdych at about 9.58.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Hehe, next you'll be telling us Kyrgios made Federer his pigeon.

Not at all.

Sampras was 28 when Hewitt started hammering him. Fed is like 36.

Incidentally, weren't you the wise guy who coined the term 'transitional champion' to describe Djokovic?

Yeah, because dunces like you kept saying the same crap about Fed and his era.

Look achievements aside, and just marking the players like in a diving competition, you would have Federer at 9.96 Roddick and Hewitt at about 9.60 and Berdych at about 9.58.

You're clearly lost..

Fed would be a steady 10, Roddick and Hewitt would be about a 8.5 or 9 and Berdych would be like a 7. He's not that good, stop living in fairly tale land.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Hewitt didn't hit top form again until Wimbledon in 2004, he served for the first set but made some uncharacteristic errors at Queens. Not a real peak for peak match, Hewitt was way better at Queens the years he won it in 00-03. Hewitt's level at Wimbledon in 02 and 04 is up there with Arod's or there abouts as well IMO.

At the USO Roddick was really great in 2003, apart from the match against Nalbandian he was crushing the ball. He was great in 04 as well really but didn't convert against a big server. His form in 06-07 would have been converted into at least 1 win in the last few years.

Yeah, fair enough. You know a lot about that time period too.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

Not at all.

Sampras was 28 when Hewitt started hammering him. Fed is like 36.


Yeah, because dunces like you kept saying the same crap about Fed and his era.


You're clearly lost..

Fed would be a steady 10, Roddick and Hewitt would be about a 8.5 or 9 and Berdych would be like a 7. He's not that good, stop living in fairly tale land.

You seem to be inferring that Hewitt is better than Sampras!

I'll give it you though, Hewitt was more dynamic round the court than Roddick, better movement for sure.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You seem to be inferring that Hewitt is better than Sampras!

How so? Because I said he was getting the better of him after he turned 28? He did. That isn't me saying he would beat peak Sampras, it's me saying he beat Sampras in 2000 and afterward.

I'll give it you though, Hewitt was more dynamic round the court than Roddick, better movement for sure.

Hewitt was a better player than Roddick... The results speak for themselves and their H2H peak for peak.

But Berdych is clearly inferior to both.

 

[Deleted member 733170]

How so? Because I said he was getting the better of him after he turned 28? He did. That isn't me saying he would beat peak Sampras, it's me saying he beat Sampras in 2000 and afterward.


Hewitt was a better player than Roddick... The results speak for themselves and their H2H peak for peak.

But Berdych is clearly inferior to both.

Well the conundrum does remain, because if you are going to qualify Hewitt's success against Sampras as some sort of benchmark, we do need to give Berdych credit for his far superior h2h against Federer than Roddick's.

Yes I know you will come back with the normal blather about 'peak Federer', but the fact does remain that Berdych was also born in the same generation as Del Potro, Nadal, Tsonga, Murray and Nadal, so the opportunity for himself to fully 'express himself' was more limited than in the so called 'Peak Roddick' years.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Well the conundrum does remain, because if you are going to qualify Hewitt's success against Sampras as some sort of benchmark, we do need to give Berdych credit for his far superior h2h against Federer than Roddick's.

It doesn't stop at Sampras for Hewitt. His H2H against Andre is respectable (even at 4 a piece) and he actually lead the H2H against Federer until he hit his peak and I highly doubt Berdych takes the matches Hewitt had against Federer in the form he was in during them.

Yes I know you will come back with the normal blather about 'peak Federer', but the fact does remain that Berdych was also born in the same generation as Del Potro, Nadal, Tsonga, Murray and Nadal, so the opportunity for himself to fully 'express himself' was more limited than in the so called 'Peak Roddick' years.

It isn't blabber if you actually know what you're talking about. In essence, you return the favor by blabbing about guys like freaking Tsonga (lmao?) and Del Potro; who was someone Hewitt owned himself as an old man.

And no, his chances weren't "more limited". He got the chance to play in the weaker 2014-2016 period, and during the first part (2014-2015) he was actually showing some decent form, but like usual he wasn't good enough to win a major. Put peak Roddick into this time period and he'd win at least a major. I mean, seriously -- your argument is that Cilic is a better player than Roddick. What an absolute joke.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You actually mentioned Nadal twice. It must be stressed Hewitt took sets off Rafa at ROLAND GARROS of all places, and actually he has a decent H2H against him given their circumstances (huge difference in primes, ect). Rafa leads it 7-4.

Roddick took out Nadal in 2008 and 2010 (his two best years). He'd do better than freaking Berdych.

 

[junior74]

Pretty much, but gotta give credit for a Berdych fan taking up the fight. Time for name change to @NoOtherBerdFan

I too like T-Bird's game

I consider Berdych the most naturally talented "on the eye". Such a naturally gifted player, while Roddick is more like Sock; sort of "home groan".

Roddick's results speaks tons.

 

[Steve0904]

This just tells you how utterly unimportant the eye test can be. If the eye test was important a guy like Nadal would win nowhere near as much as he has. Not saying he's not talented because he's more talented than most give him credit for, but his game is very unorthodox, in particular the buggy whip FH. And early in his career you had to wonder how he won matches with that serve that he just spun in most of the time, particularly on clay. His return position was also new. Nobody before him stood that far back consistently to return serve.

So really the eye test means jack squat.

 

[mike danny]

Well the conundrum does remain, because if you are going to qualify Hewitt's success against Sampras as some sort of benchmark, we do need to give Berdych credit for his far superior h2h against Federer than Roddick's.

Yes I know you will come back with the normal blather about 'peak Federer', but the fact does remain that Berdych was also born in the same generation as Del Potro, Nadal, Tsonga, Murray and Nadal, so the opportunity for himself to fully 'express himself' was more limited than in the so called 'Peak Roddick' years.

I don't think Berdych would have even won a slam. He would have lost slam finals to guys like Hewitt and Roddick IMO and even to old Agassi.

 

[mbm0912]

Berdych wrote the book

I hate Pushdick, but Berdy and those kits.

It looks cool when Berdy does it though. Pushdick would just **** his stupid hat to the side, and fling a fit to the umpire like a jock-brat.

 

[Meles]

It looks cool when Berdy does it though. Pushdick would just **** his stupid hat to the side, and fling a fit to the umpire like a jock-brat.

This was Berdy flapping his wings after first set of 2015 Auz Open with Murray. Bagelled in the 2nd set.

 

[Meles]

I too like T-Bird's game

I consider Berdych the most naturally talented "on the eye". Such a naturally gifted player, while Roddick is more like Sock; sort of "home groan".

Roddick's results speaks tons.

#OneMoreBerdFan
@albatros_forehand

 

[Meles]

Lol, I'd rather watch paint dry, which incidentally I'm doing right now as I have the decorators round. Berdych's forehand in full flight >>> any shot of Roddick's but if you feel otherwise that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.

That's a rare sighting. Berdy just imploded after a nice forehand run in tiebreaker. Believe he was up 6-1 in the TB with Murray before losing it.

Berd ditch.

 

[NatF]

That's a rare sighting. Berdy just imploded after a nice forehand run in tiebreaker. Believe he was up 6-1 in the TB with Murray before losing it.

Berd ditch.

Berdych is just a mental midget - at least relatively compared to most slam winners.

 

[Krish872007]

Nah, but that's never going to happen with Roddick's serve. He's been bagelled 6 times in his career (7 including juniors);

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=AndyRoddick&f=ACareerqqQ9

Berdych has been bagelled 21 times That's a stat for you @Krish872007

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=TomasBerdych&f=ACareerqqQ9

I'm so delighted to hear that!

Who are these fantastic individuals who have done us this great honour of plucking and roasting the Big Berd?

Goffin, Fed, Djoko, who else?

 

[NatF]

I'm so delighted to hear that!

Who are these fantastic individuals who have done us this great honour of plucking and roasting the Big Berd?

Goffin, Fed, Djoko, who else?

Simon, Soderling, Almagro ( ), Davydenko, Lopez, Verdasco, Nalbandian, Coria, Malisse, Andreev, Agassi

Not a bad list of names tbh, easy to forget how long Berdych has been around.

 

[Krish872007]

Simon, Soderling, Almagro ( ), Davydenko, Lopez, Verdasco, Nalbandian, Coria, Malisse, Andreev, Agassi

Not a bad list of names tbh, easy to forget how long Berdych has been around.

Almagro? WOW.

I just realised I forgot Murray and Nadal as well

 

[NatF]

Almagro? WOW.

I just realised I forgot Murray and Nadal as well

Ah yeah, thought you mentioned them. Still...21.

 

[junior74]

#OneMoreBerdFan
@albatros_forehand

"Fan" is perhaps a stretch

Btw, Berdych has handed out a lot of bagels and fries too. In ´10 and ´11 he was ATP´s third best baker.

He is a receiver - and a giver.

A beautiful human being

 

[Meles]

I'm so delighted to hear that!

Who are these fantastic individuals who have done us this great honour of plucking and roasting the Big Berd?

Goffin, Fed, Djoko, who else?

Immortalized:

Berd lover's rejoice as the great Berd won sets after bagels against Federer and Djokovic.