One amazing thing about Djokovic

[Enceladus]

Of course, that Novak has wonderful things are more, but in this thread I will focus on one remarkable fact:

14 of 15 GS titles (93,33 %) Djoker won when defeating another Big 4 member - Federer, Nadal or Murray on his way to the title. In total 4 times he had to beat even two members of Big 4 (AO 2011 & 2016 - Federer, Murray; USO 2011 - Federer, Nadal; AO 2012 - Murray, Nadal). The only easier title, without confronting any other Big 4 member, was the US Open 2018.

And how do other members of Big 4 have it with profit of titles with confrontation against other Big 4 member?
Nadal 13 of 17 (76,47 %)
Federer 8 of 20 (40 %)
Murray 2 of 3 (66,67 %)

According to percentage share and on number of titles is Novak in this parameter is the best of Big 4. It follows that for No1e it has never been easy, almost always had to defeat one of his three biggest rivals on the way to the title. That's why is Earth's Mightiest Warrior

 

[Djokodalerer31]

In before Fedals will start singing their famous "Murray is not a factor" tune all over again...

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

In before Fedals will start singing their famous "Murray is not a factor" tune all over again...

If you have to say it...
Murray is Yamcha

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

lol Thiem = Broly

 

[tennisaddict]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

 

[Phoenix1983]

I don’t know why Novak Djokovic fans have to keep posting stuff that we already know. None of it is going to make him GOAT, you know.

 

[ABCD]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

Your thread from 2016 about Djokovic being the best ever is so good that I saved it. Excellent thread.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Wonderful and very telling stat. Great work OP.

 

[Zebrev]

Djoker = Freiza

 

[Fiero425]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

Here we go again! Age, age, age rearing it's ugly head again! Why? Roger won 3 majors in the last 2 years and he actually took out his major rival in 5 "down under" in the final! This has all been about ability, nerves, and desire! This season should tell us how Roger's situated and how long he'll hang on! It appears he wants to at least make Olympics next year! IMO he'll get tested by the latest and greatest NG'rs! He's fallen back in the rankings, but we all remember he won "17 AO seeded #17 so it shouldn't matter unless he hits Rafovic's section of their draw early!

 

[N01E]

So he won each of his slams beating slam champions. Even Murry has a slam win without facing any of them. Another fun fact: In 2015 he defeated all defending slam champions except for Wimbledon where he was defending the title himself. He did beat the defending finalist there though.

 

[Enceladus]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

That the tennis player is 30 years old does not automatically mean he's not competitive. Especially nowadays, when modern medicine allows tennis players to prolong their careers. When Nole defeated Federer or Nadal on the way of the GS title, he always beat their competitive versions, not their weak versions (Fed 2013, Nadal 2015).

Let's be honest: You're afraid, that Nole can overcome Fed's record in number of GS titles, therefore repeat your OP about the old Fedals. It's already embarrassing.

 

[Red Rick]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

lmao. Fed and Rafi with 90% winning seasons and that's easier **** than Safin, Hewitt, Roddick or Gonzo.

Please give me the phone number of you crack dealer. I must have it.

 

[KINGROGER]

2011 AO Murray
2013 AO Murray
2014 W Fed
2015 AO Murray
2015 W Fed
2015 W Fed
2016 AO Fed/Murray
2016 RG Murray

I don’t really see any top top opponents or wins there. 2011 USO over Fedal, 2012 AO over Nadal, 2018 W over Nadal yes. These guys all played top tennis and were all epic wins for Nole.

Name isn’t everything. Murray barely put up a fight in the majority of his slam losses to Nole.

 

[King No1e]

Of course, that Novak has wonderful things are more, but in this thread I will focus on one remarkable fact:

14 of 15 GS titles (93,33 %) Djoker won when defeating another Big 4 member - Federer, Nadal or Murray on his way to the title. In total 4 times he had to beat even two members of Big 4 (AO 2011 & 2016 - Federer, Murray; USO 2011 - Federer, Nadal; AO 2012 - Murray, Nadal). The only easier title, without confronting any other Big 4 member, was the US Open 2018.

And how do other members of Big 4 have it with profit of titles with confrontation against other Big 4 member?
Nadal 13 of 17 (76,47 %)
Federer 8 of 20 (40 %)
Murray 2 of 3 (66,67 %)

According to percentage share and on number of titles is Novak in this parameter is the best of Big 4. It follows that for No1e it has never been easy, almost always had to defeat one of his three biggest rivals on the way to the title. That's why is Earth's Mightiest Warrior

If he wins the RG, he is the current generation's king. If he wins Wimbledon and USO, he is a very deserving GOAT.

 

[RaulRamirez]

If he wins the RG, he is the current generation's king. If he wins Wimbledon and USO, he is a very deserving GOAT.

I'm not sure if I'd be there...yet...if he wins Roland Garros, but he'll have a lot of bragging rights over Roger and Rafa - and everyone else.
So, I'm not predicting he'll win RG, but a resume of 16 majors, with a double career GS, 2 NCYGS, all the Masters titles, and presumably, a 6th YE #1 may be enough to make up what would still be a 4-major deficit. But then again, they're all still playing, so...

 

[King No1e]

I'm not sure if I'd be there...yet...if he wins Roland Garros, but he'll have a lot of bragging rights over Roger and Rafa - and everyone else.
So, I'm not predicting he'll win RG, but a resume of 16 majors, with a double career GS, 2 NCYGS, all the Masters titles, and presumably, a 6th YE #1 may be enough to make up what would still be a 4-major deficit. But then again, they're all still playing, so...

yeah, RG is a slim hope, because Nadal is going nowhere. But if he does it......it's monumental

 

[RaulRamirez]

yeah, RG is a slim hope, because Nadal is going nowhere. But if he does it......it's monumental

Absolutely.

 

[Enceladus]

2011 AO Murray
2013 AO Murray
2014 W Fed
2015 AO Murray
2015 W Fed
2015 USO Fed
2016 AO Fed/Murray
2016 RG Murray

I don’t really see any top top opponents or wins there. 2011 USO over Fedal, 2012 AO over Nadal, 2018 W over Nadal yes. These guys all played top tennis and were all epic wins for Nole.

Name isn’t everything. Murray barely put up a fight in the majority of his slam losses to Nole.

For some mentioned of the GS titles Djoker defeated three TOP 10 players, which is the maximum for top-ranked tennis players:
AO 2011 - Murray, Federer, Berdych
AO 2013 - Murray, Ferrer, Berdych
AO 2015 - Murray, Wawrinka, Raonic
AO 2016 - Murray, Federer, Nishikori

And on other winning tournaments he beat two TOP 10 players. He didn't have many easy draws.

 

[duaneeo]

A non-amazing thing about Djokovic:

His two main rivals this decade are players who dominated the ATP the previous decade (winning 21 slams and 31 Masters between 2005 - 2010), and he's faced a lost generation of young players who never had a slam breakout. In spite of these many advantages, he still is where he was at the start of 2011: Behind Federer and Nadal in slam titles.

 

[tennisaddict]

lmao. Fed and Rafi with 90% winning seasons and that's easier **** than Safin, Hewitt, Roddick or Gonzo.

Please give me the phone number of you crack dealer. I must have it.

90% Winning seasons need not have any correlation at all with the form they can bring to the final.

In an era that has Nishikori, Dmitrov, Raonic and Anderson as the next gen , how hard it can be to have a 90% winning season ?

 

[tennisaddict]

That the tennis player is 30 years old does not automatically mean he's not competitive. Especially nowadays, when modern medicine allows tennis players to prolong their careers. When Nole defeated Federer or Nadal on the way of the GS title, he always beat their competitive versions, not their weak versions (Fed 2013, Nadal 2015).

Let's be honest: You're afraid, that Nole can overcome Fed's record in number of GS titles, therefore repeat your OP about the old Fedals. It's already embarrassing.

Fact is Nole finds it extremely hard to even put away the washed up versions of Fedal. He got past the h2h against Fed when Fed hit 35. That should tell you something.

When Fedal were at their peak , he always found it hard to get past them.

That clearly shows when you are amassing more slams from age 28 than before.

Why are you afraid in admitting the factual position that Novak won 9/15 majors after Fedal turned 32 yrs 11 months and 28.2 respectively ?

 

[Red Rick]

90% Winning seasons need not have any correlation at all with the form they can bring to the final.

In an era that has Nishikori, Dmitrov, Raonic and Anderson as the next gen , how hard it can be to have a 90% winning season ?

Pretty damn hard. Especially considering Fedal played each other and Djokovic a lot.

 

[tennisaddict]

Here we go again! Age, age, age rearing it's ugly head again! Why? Roger won 3 majors in the last 2 years and he actually took out his major rival in 5 "down under" in the final! This has all been about ability, nerves, and desire! This season should tell us how Roger's situated and how long he'll hang on! It appears he wants to at least make Olympics next year! IMO he'll get tested by the latest and greatest NG'rs! He's fallen back in the rankings, but we all remember he won "17 AO seeded #17 so it shouldn't matter unless he hits Rafovic's section of their draw early!

What is the problem in stating age ? Isn't that factual ? It is up to the reader to determine whether Federer and Nadal were the same after 33 years / 28 years respectively.

The fact that 36 year Fed won 3 of 5 majors and Nadal at 30 won the other three speaks volumes of this era - not really about how good Fedal are. We know well that this version of Fedal would not have had that chances with a healthy Novak. At the same time, we found out what happened when peak Nadal / prime Fed competed with peak Novak in 2012-13.

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

To sum up, certain Fedal's wins over Novak are far more telling than any of the 53 Novak has registered.

 

[SecondToNone]

Nadal was 28.2.

They are same generation.

 

[BeatlesFan]

14 of 15 GS titles (93,33 %) Djoker won when defeating another Big 4 member

And this is a great achievement, no doubt. However, it occurred when surfaces had been completely homogenized and slowed down. Most people posting here weren't alive or have no clue of how Wimbledon grass used to play, or how fast the USO was in its heyday in the 70's-80's. There are no grass specialists or clay specialists anymore because Wimbledon plays as slowly now as an average slow HC.

Lendl went 8-11 in slam finals partially because the surfaces changed radically from clay to super slick grass and then to extremely fast HC's. Had he played in this era of every surface playing the same, he would easily have won Wimbledon 3 times. No need to volley anymore, no need to venture anywhere near the net. Borg's channel slam blows doors off Fedal's channel slams since the grass was then radically different than the soup they play on now.

 

[tennisaddict]

They are same generation.

Nadal had won like 10 majors before Novak could even sniff his second.

Nadal's career and his success overlapped more with Federer's.

 

[BeatlesFan]

They are same generation.

If you're referring to Fed and Nadal, they quite obviously are not. Fed's generational rivals are all long, long since retired:

Nalby
Safin
Hewitt
Roddick
Gonzo
Blake
Ljub
Philopoussis
Davydenko

A player 5 years younger than the other is never a generational rival. Mac and Connors weren't generational rivals, since 6 years separated them.

 

[Fiero425]

If you're referring to Fed and Nadal, they quite obviously are not. Fed's generational rivals are all long, long retired:

Nalby
Safin
Hewitt
Roddick
Gonzo
Blake
Ljub
Philopoussis
Davydenko

A player 5 years younger than the other is never a generational rival. Mac and Connors weren't generational rivals, since 6 years separated them.

Well unfortunately Fed's nemesis for his entire 2nd half has been Rafovic and they've worn him out! He would have had so many more majors if not for them!

 

[TennisPinkBabe]

Yeah but how many times did Djokovic beat Sampras to win a slam????? 0%. That should tell you something, no?

 

[3lite]

OP, Novak won 9 of his 15 majors when Fed turned 32 years 11 months and Nadal was 28.2. This Fedal is marginally better than Anderson and Nishikori.

A win against Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Gonzalez at their peak is way tougher.

They had a peak?

 

[SecondToNone]

If you're referring to Fed and Nadal

Just Nadal being same generation as Novak.

 

[tennisaddict]

They had a peak?

Novak has a losing h2h to someone who never had a peak ?

 

[TheAssassin]

So much salt instead of simply embracing someone so stunning. Hopeless cases...

 

[Enceladus]

Fact is Nole finds it extremely hard to even put away the washed up versions of Fedal. He got past the h2h against Fed when Fed hit 35. That should tell you something.

When Fedal were at their peak , he always found it hard to get past them.

That clearly shows when you are amassing more slams from age 28 than before.

Why are you afraid in admitting the factual position that Novak won 9/15 majors after Fedal turned 32 yrs 11 months and 28.2 respectively ?

Do you know why Novak won 9 of its 15 GS titles in the period from Wimbledon 2014 to today? Not because of the old Fedal, but because in Wimbledon 2014 he recovered the lost champions instinct and got rid of psychic fragility, due to which he lost a few titles in the period between AO 2012 and Wimbledon 2014. When Nole had the champions instinct for the first time, he have a balance 4:1 over Fedal on GS in 2011 season. Forgotten facts, right?

 

[tennisaddict]

Do you know why Novak won 9 of its 15 GS titles in the period from Wimbledon 2014 to today? Not because of the old Fedal, but because in Wimbledon 2014 he recovered the lost champions instinct and got rid of psychic fragility, due to which he lost a few titles in the period between AO 2012 and Wimbledon 2014. When Nole had the champions instinct for the first time, he have a balance 4:1 over Fedal on GS in 2011 season. Forgotten facts, right?

When he wins , he is peak. When he loses, he is fragile . That is some logic

 

[Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil]

You guys invented it...

 

[tennisaddict]

Do you know why Novak won 9 of its 15 GS titles in the period from Wimbledon 2014 to today? Not because of the old Fedal, but because in Wimbledon 2014 he recovered the lost champions instinct and got rid of psychic fragility, due to which he lost a few titles in the period between AO 2012 and Wimbledon 2014. When Nole had the champions instinct for the first time, he have a balance 4:1 over Fedal on GS in 2011 season. Forgotten facts, right?

Fact is Novak could not sustain the 2011 level in terms of play . Fed could do it for several years. Nadal could do it multiple times though not continuous.

Novak was mentally great right from 2011-13, evidenced by great results all around. Just that at majors, Nadal and Fed could best him.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

A lot of those are Murray though who is hardly of the calibre of the other two.
Still, no disputing that he's had stiff competition the majority of the time.

 

[TripleATeam]

I think for Federer's numbers you have to start counting from 2007, the beginning of the Big 4 era. If you do, Federer's numbers become 6-5, which is 55%.

And what's more is I don't think it's fair to penalize someone for going further than someone else. If a statistic can be hurt by another player not performing well enough, the statistic is not overly important as a general rule. This is one of those statistics- Federer won several slams in the Big 4 era without meeting another member of the Big 4. This means none of them played well enough to reach him, and shouldn't count against him. Sure, it's more impressive to win a slam against a member of the Big 4, but this statistic is not overly important.

Same goes for H2H, or win % in finals.

H2H: If a player can tell that the other player is in better form, they can choose to tank in the round before and avoid losing a match to a rival. This means H2H is too easily manipulated.
Win % in finals: If a player knows they have next to no chance in the final, they can tank in the semis in order to preserve that 100% final win rate.

So generally, yes, this is a definite plus for Djokovic, but doesn't work against Nadal or Federer, in my opinion.

 

[Plamen1234]

Do you know why Novak won 9 of its 15 GS titles in the period from Wimbledon 2014 to today? Not because of the old Fedal, but because in Wimbledon 2014 he recovered the lost champions instinct and got rid of psychic fragility, due to which he lost a few titles in the period between AO 2012 and Wimbledon 2014. When Nole had the champions instinct for the first time, he have a balance 4:1 over Fedal on GS in 2011 season. Forgotten facts, right?

Djokovic won most of his GS titles after 2014 because of weak competition not because he rediscovered his fighting mojo.Facing old Federer,washed up Nadal,Murray,Del Potro and KAndy in GS finals.

 

[NoleFam]

Nadal had won like 10 majors before Novak could even sniff his second.

Nadal's career and his success overlapped more with Federer's.

Nadal had won 9 majors actually before Djokovic got his second and Nadal won his 9th by beating Djokovic in the USO final. If Nadal's career overlapped more with Federer then why has he played Djokovic 15 more times than he has played Federer and more times in Slams? Technically Djokovic and Federer crossed paths more than Fedal did since they played 10 more times and also more times in Slams.

 

[TripleATeam]

Nadal had won like 10 majors before Novak could even sniff his second.

Nadal's career and his success overlapped more with Federer's.

I'm going to use what I believe many people count as Federer's and Djokovic's prime, then we'll see if that's true.

Federer: 2004-2012
Djokovic: 2008-2016

Nadal's success from 2004 to 2012: 11 slams.
2008 to 2016: 11 slams.

Seems fairly equal, even with Nadal's terrible 2015 and 2016.

 

[3lite]

Novak has a losing h2h to someone who never had a peak ?

Real tennis heads would look at that as cute.

But Federer's h2h against Nadal and Djokovic is viewed as damning to say the least.

 

[tennisaddict]

I'm going to use what I believe many people count as Federer's and Djokovic's prime, then we'll see if that's true.

Federer: 2004-2012
Djokovic: 2008-2016

Nadal's success from 2004 to 2012: 11 slams.
2008 to 2016: 11 slams.

Seems fairly equal, even with Nadal's terrible 2015 and 2016.

Appreciate some reasonable Novak fans. Have to say Novak was not slam material until 2011.

Novak's best and Rafa's best overlapped from 2011-13/early 14.

Fed's best and Rafa's best overlapped from 2004-12

 

[itrium84]

I think for Federer's numbers you have to start counting from 2007, the beginning of the Big 4 era. If you do, Federer's numbers become 6-5, which is 55%.

And what's more is I don't think it's fair to penalize someone for going further than someone else. If a statistic can be hurt by another player not performing well enough, the statistic is not overly important as a general rule. This is one of those statistics- Federer won several slams in the Big 4 era without meeting another member of the Big 4. This means none of them played well enough to reach him, and shouldn't count against him. Sure, it's more impressive to win a slam against a member of the Big 4, but this statistic is not overly important.

Same goes for H2H, or win % in finals.

H2H: If a player can tell that the other player is in better form, they can choose to tank in the round before and avoid losing a match to a rival. This means H2H is too easily manipulated.
Win % in finals: If a player knows they have next to no chance in the final, they can tank in the semis in order to preserve that 100% final win rate.

So generally, yes, this is a definite plus for Djokovic, but doesn't work against Nadal or Federer, in my opinion.

I mainly agree with all this, except with the tanking theory. I believe no big4 player ever tanked a match in order to preserve some h2h or win percentage. Having that said, we're on the same page regarding the overall relevance of these stats, because they are all heavily dependent on coincidental factors.
On the other side, I wouldn't call it trivial, because there's at least some amount of reliability when comparing whole career h2h-s and %-s.

I'm just glad Novak has all positive big h2h record, although that fact doesn't make him much better, it's a finesse stat that can be used in an argumentation if players have fairly similar important stats, like GS total, weeks/years no1, YEC and M1000 total.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[tennisaddict]

Real tennis heads would look at that as cute.

But Federer's h2h against Nadal and Djokovic is viewed as damning to say the least.

But we do know that Nadal and Djokovic had peaks. losing to mugs who never had a peak ?

 

[The Fedfather]

A cool stat, but I don't think it is amazing. Winning a major is not easy by any means, but if we speak in relative terms a member(s) or of the Big 4 does not necessarily make a draw tough. There are many examples to prove that, including the most recent Slam. Some people choose to ignore that, and continue listing players' names and then making conclusions and various proclamations based literally only on those names. Of course there will be disagreement when you do that and not just from 'salty' fans.