Better_Call_Raul
Legend
Already have a one handed Backhand drive and Backhand slice from tennis.
How does the technique differ in pickelball?
How does the technique differ in pickelball?
One Handed Backhand Drive: What Are The Differences To Tennis?
- Thread starter Better_Call_Raul
- Start date
konstantinos kalfountzos
Hall of Fame
"Don't try to understand it, just feel it".
Better_Call_Raul
Legend
That is certainly a valid approach, especially for those with no racquet sport background.
But I already "understand and feel" backhands from many years of training tennis.
Now I wish to know how much of this carries over to pickellball.
konstantinos kalfountzos
Hall of Fame
Pickleball has taught me to hit more through the ball than inputting (too) much top-spin on my shots.
Since you have a tennis background, you'll find the backhand slice super easy.
As for the backhand drives, you may need to use a 2-handed backhand most of the time, since the balls is super light and in Pickleball the best way to hit your shots is the shortest (back)swing possible. I throw some one-handed backhands here and there in both tennis and pickleball, but couldn't but see the benefits of the 2-handed backhands especially on defense.
Since you have a tennis background, you'll find the backhand slice super easy.
As for the backhand drives, you may need to use a 2-handed backhand most of the time, since the balls is super light and in Pickleball the best way to hit your shots is the shortest (back)swing possible. I throw some one-handed backhands here and there in both tennis and pickleball, but couldn't but see the benefits of the 2-handed backhands especially on defense.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Following mainly about pickleball doubles … singles pickleball is closer to tennis. In doubles we don’t hit that many tennis shots (serve sort of, returns, 3rd shot drives, overheads, swinging volleys … most play/shots resets and kitchen play which ain’t tennis.Already have a one handed Backhand drive and Backhand slice from tennis.
How does the technique differ in pickelball?
Your first half dozen pickleball one handed backhand drives will hit the net … possibly the ground.
I’m not kidding … that nice tennis backhand slice where you put racquet up high behind your head, hitting a descending blow with open face … is a bautiful strings and rubber ball thing. Not a paddle and plastic ball thing. (At least my first slice attempts was at a park with no witnesses 
). The good news is your backhand slice muscle memory will still work with some modification 1) think all slice swing paths as slight up … flat at best … keep the open face thing but not as much as you can with strings 2) since you lose the benefit of effortless tennis slice with long descending high to low swing paths, you gain nothing with the bigger swing path in pickleball. Start with paddle down (or at least not very high), shorten backswing (keep whatever is comfortable and repeatable for you), and think slight upward swing path with open face. It will mess with your mind for a while, but will be useful in rec pickleball doubles on return of serve (that’s really mainly all you will use it for in doubles).One handed backhand drives will be fine for return of serve and 3rd shot drives. I still hit them, but also hit 2hbh. It is so weird that 2hbh works well with a 16ish paddle … but it does and often more stable than 1hbh in pickleball. This is the main reason I have come up with why our tennis 1hbh doesn’t transfer great to pickleball. In tennis, our internal gps/tracking happens from a bounce further away, and a consistent bounce. Said another way … we have calculated our swing by around the bounce on our side, and we have time even with faster mph to accomodate our longer backswings. In pickleball, you have to slow that internal calculation … plastic ball bounce … waiting to last moment to commit swing which doesn’t lend itself to long backswings. We all know one handed backhands are the most beautiful shot in tennis
, but they are crap with shortened backswings and minimal shoulder turn. Pickleball 2hbhs end up being like forehands … you can get away with less than perfect prep.I shortened my 1hbh drive prep … straight down and back a little instead of drop behind back. Apparently I kept the high follow through finish (which isn’t needed), because I’ve seen players watching from beside the court mimic the hand going in the air.
Not a lot of pro pickleball one handed backhands to follow, but Jay Devilliers is a good one to watch.
Better_Call_Raul
Legend
These pickleheads always heckle me as I pass through with my tennis racquet.
"Hey! That's the longest paddle we've ever seen!". hahahahah!
I just give them a smirk.
"Hey! That's the longest paddle we've ever seen!". hahahahah!
I just give them a smirk.
dlam
Semi-Pro
I like the one handed backhand
For my returns I usually cradle the paddle with left hand ready for eastern bh then switch over to forehand
If I feel like running around the bh I use the western forehand grip ready position. The court is so small and serves are generally slower than in tennis that it’s possible to start with forehand grip for the return
When I’m at the kitchen it feels more like table tennis and I feel more comfortable with a right handed contenetal grip and can do a backhand flick or forehand roll/drive
Dinking and drops are more common in pickleball that don’t see as often or at all in tennis
For my returns I usually cradle the paddle with left hand ready for eastern bh then switch over to forehand
If I feel like running around the bh I use the western forehand grip ready position. The court is so small and serves are generally slower than in tennis that it’s possible to start with forehand grip for the return
When I’m at the kitchen it feels more like table tennis and I feel more comfortable with a right handed contenetal grip and can do a backhand flick or forehand roll/drive
Dinking and drops are more common in pickleball that don’t see as often or at all in tennis
I Dink Too Much
Rookie
Full disclosure: I stink at the 2HBH ("Twoey" in pickleball speak).
On to the pickleball one-handed BH.... My BH, which was superior in tennis, is also quite strong in pickleball. Many of my regular partners like having me play the R side because, "With your strong backhand it's as if I have a Lefty partner with our FHs in the middle."
The stroke -- as all are in pickleball -- are greatly abbreviated when contrasted with the tennis strokes. The technique is pretty much identical, just ... less. (Probably because -- as BBP alluded, above -- there's nearly zero "dwell time" of the (whiffle) ball having contact with the paddle surface.
My slice BH drive (My favorite return of serve) still "skids" and bounces very low in pickleball. When I encounter exceptionally good topspinners, they can employ "spin continuation" off my slice return and gain the advantage.
a) These topspinners (Like Quong and Zane) are rare at the Rec level. Topspin is much more difficult to impart on a pickleball that is only 5 inches off the ground ... than with a tennis ball.
b) As soon as I notice two topspin 3rds on my returns, I switch to the topspin drive return of serve. I'm lucky; that's also a very strong shot of mine. My timing is simply a degree better with the slice....
Just as when I played tennis, when the pickelball serve is directed AT my body, I slide to a BH return. (I was in a Scott Moore Clinic last summer and he noticed -- much quicker than my opponents seem to -- I was sliding to the BH return.) "Is your backhand better than your forehand?" he asked me.
"Yes."
"Me too."
- Dink
On to the pickleball one-handed BH.... My BH, which was superior in tennis, is also quite strong in pickleball. Many of my regular partners like having me play the R side because, "With your strong backhand it's as if I have a Lefty partner with our FHs in the middle."
The stroke -- as all are in pickleball -- are greatly abbreviated when contrasted with the tennis strokes. The technique is pretty much identical, just ... less. (Probably because -- as BBP alluded, above -- there's nearly zero "dwell time" of the (whiffle) ball having contact with the paddle surface.
My slice BH drive (My favorite return of serve) still "skids" and bounces very low in pickleball. When I encounter exceptionally good topspinners, they can employ "spin continuation" off my slice return and gain the advantage.
a) These topspinners (Like Quong and Zane) are rare at the Rec level. Topspin is much more difficult to impart on a pickleball that is only 5 inches off the ground ... than with a tennis ball.
b) As soon as I notice two topspin 3rds on my returns, I switch to the topspin drive return of serve. I'm lucky; that's also a very strong shot of mine. My timing is simply a degree better with the slice....
Just as when I played tennis, when the pickelball serve is directed AT my body, I slide to a BH return. (I was in a Scott Moore Clinic last summer and he noticed -- much quicker than my opponents seem to -- I was sliding to the BH return.) "Is your backhand better than your forehand?" he asked me.
"Yes."
"Me too."
- Dink
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Some thoughts on the “why” abbreviated strokes in pickleball:
Kitchen speaks for itself. A long follow through often doesn’t give you time get back to ready position from 14 feet away. Same for minimal or no coiling on kitchen volleys … good kitchen skills require getting good at hitting volleys without any (or much) of our tennis body rotation (which will never be satisfying to a tennis player). An exception to the no coiling is often the 2hbh volley, because of the nature of 2hbhs … arming only 2hbh no workey.
In order to get that coil (shoulder under chin) on fast shots to your torso, you have to get good/fast at sliding to give you space for 2hbh and coil happens during slide. Watch Anna Leigh Waters on slow motion video. I hit both 1hbh and 2hbh in tennis, but decided early on 2hbh volley only made sense for me when ball was wide and you had time. Even then, more reach with 1hbh and no problem getting enough put away with 1hbh. Good luck getting s&v tennis player wanting to hit 2hbh volleys, although now I will hit 2hbh swing volleys in pickleball from transition zone (no man’s land) on certain volleys. There is strangely extra stability and control hitting the wiffle with 2hbh, so any topspin cross court swing volley to a tight target is well served with 2hbh.Baseline … I actually think any abbreviation of stroke … say on serves and returns have very little to do with time/rushed issues. You can let your tennis follow through fly, and the first time you new pb tribe sees your arm and paddle pointing up at the end will get some murmurs … “tennis player”. PB players that don’t come from tennis live to beat tennis players.
But when it comes to abbreviating backswing from baseline, I think there is a good reason … the crap plastic ball bounce. In tennis on hard courts (can’t speak to that rodeo dirt) you had a predictable bounce and distance from bounce to groove a swing to. Said another way … you had time for timing preferences which is mostly what backswings are for. Some tennis players like to unit turn with racket high, drop as needed … arrive at slot on time and start the uncoiling/swing. That beautiful option ends with the plastic ball. It’s not going to bounce as high or as far … the window from bounce to contact isn’t good enough for the tennis backswing timing stuff. Basically just put your paddle down in slot position (look at Jack Sock now in pb) and hit your tennis stroke starting from there. I kept a little drop (lower than waist) because it’s rec and it feels better, but the days of racket up high for strokes including 1hbh slice are over.Dink … I will argue another day with you (like I have with the entire internet
) that the added opponent topspin from your slice that bounces is an entire myth. Zane started this bs … entertaining mischievous fellow.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
What paddle are you using? We (wife) are both using Pickleball Apes Pulse S and still love them after 6 months. I think this is the longest I have gone without changing paddles. My goal is to make it too Christmas and a one year paddle.
konstantinos kalfountzos
Hall of Fame
Both very well-said. Playing against an advanced tennis hitting partner, the return slice is not as effective as a flat stroke. Just like you said: underspin can be converted to top-spin very easily. The point is, you don't need to hit with much top-spin from the baseline or the mid-court, since you don't want the ball to bounce high on the other end, but stay as low as possible, making sure you clear the net. Top-spin forehand is very useful when dinking, you can throu the other guy around. Will get into playing more regularly from now on.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I can tell you two things more important in pb doubles than topspin vs slice
:1) where you hit it
2) don’t ever, ever pop the ball up … which is really #1
Pickleball should be renamed DontPopUpBall. I have seen good players beat decent bangers never hitting a ball hard. If you are a banger … gotta get good at the other stuff also. Most people watching PPA pro Alshon improvement over last year will see the offense, but in doubles I also big improvement in the soft/defensive game … kitchen, resets.
Take returns for example, to typical rec players with good forehands and suspect backhands. Being able to hit to a tight target that forces the player to hit their backhand, or at least have to move quite a bit to hit their forehand often matters a lot more than flat vs ts vs backspin in the middle of the court (even if deep). And … for the opponent cheating way over on center line or outside line … being able to serve/return aggressively to opposite corner introduces “some sprinting”.
Same with dinking … I’ve seen several online instructors suggest becoming solid with dinking to targets before adding spin. I think in rec play spin in dinking is a bonus but not required … we had a 5.0 head pro that didn’t put much spin on dinks. Of course this is just boringly percentage stuff … there is the more important “having fun” thing. I hit very few 3rd shot drops now … and not because I can’t. Game has changed pretty fast … 3rd shot drop is no longer a mandatory thing anymore. I do crack up in rec play when I throw in a random 3rd shot drop. It still can mess with good players.
Better_Call_Raul
Legend
If one is hitting from the baseline the topspin forehand to the opponent's feet at the kitchen line will be effective.
It is no different than a baseliner hitting to the net rusher's feet in tennis.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
Two common times you hit to feet from baseline in pb doubles:
1) 3rd shot drops off opponents return of serve. These are touch shots (even if you use topspin). Goal is to land in 7ft kitchen on opponent’s side to get yourself to kitchen. Return team starts with the advantage each point, opposite of tennis. The goal isn’t really feet on these shots, but drops around their kitchen line are good because it neutralized aggressive opponent shots.
2) other shot where right at feet with a topspin (or not) is also also 3rd shot. If returner makes the mistake of not getting straight to kitchen on their return, the highest percentage play will be catching them on the way in. Not a full drive, not a drop … best is usually a little less pace than drive … topspin gives you some margin.
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