One handed backhand for comments ( video )

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Curious, May 13, 2018.

  1. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Give me the bad news first!:D

     
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    #1
  2. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    Way too short shorts! Horrible!
     
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  3. FiReFTW

    FiReFTW Hall of Fame

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    @Curious you are doing quite a few things poorly, don't take this wrong just trying to help you improve.


    1.
    First thing is the takeback, in a few shots you get quite a nice takeback, 1st pic is perfect height, racquet pointed up and a bit above ur head, 2nd pic is bad, almost straight back with no upper move, you lose racquet speed like this, so 1st option is much better and I advise you to focus on that, I think improving number 2. will help you with this.

    [​IMG]

    2.
    This is the most CRUCIAL AND CRITICAL THING, and the worst mistake ever, specially on the one handed backhand, you are preparing WAY TOOO LATE, WAAAAAAAAAAAAY WAAAAAAAY TOO LATE, its crucial that you prepare early on every shot, but on the OHB its even more crucial, on this pic the ball already bounced!!!! and you are only starting to take your racquet back, with such a prep how do you expect to return a fast ball? You would not even get to swing ur racquet forward if you faced a fast ball with such late preparation, you need to prepare AND unit turn as soon as the ball is going to ur backhand.

    [​IMG]

    3.
    OVERROTATION
    You are extending ur left hand on some shots which is good, but it doesn't seem to be a firm extension as sometimes you get rotated way around, but not always, try to be aware of that, on some shots you are extending well and not overrotating, but on some you get pulled around like a ragdoll:

    [​IMG]

    4.
    SWINGPATH is wrong, your swingpath on almost all shots is WAY too sideways, instead of topspin you get sidespin, look at the pic, your swingpath needs to be towards the ball and then naturally your arm comes around, your swingpath on some shots is almost completely sideways, and on some shots you can see how HUGE ur sidespin component is, the ball curves madly to the side

    [​IMG]

    5.
    Weight moving back instead of into the ball
    Your weight on some shots is moving backwards and your body weight is not helping you add pop to ur shots, but it doesn't happen on all the shots either, be aware of this and try to move and step into the ball

    [​IMG]


    Thats eough for now, its a ton of things now that you need to improve, focus on 1 thing at a time and work hard on it for a while till you manage to fix it, working on too many things at once will confuse you.

    Sorry if my review is harsh but im just trying to help you.
     
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  4. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Thanks. I think I was aware of all these you have pointed out but it's good to hear from someone else also, and with nice illustrations.
    You say late prep is the most crucial for one handed backhand and it's the shot I am the slowest in prep which is not really easy to fix. Hitting against ball machine also contributes to that. Weight going backwards instead of foreward is probably linked to being late, to some extent.
    I have the overrotation problem with my forehand also.
    Swing path more sideways... I will need to think more about that one.
     
    #4
  5. 2good4U

    2good4U Semi-Pro

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    He's Australian, it's their way.

    Just be glad it wasn't a speedo!
     
    #5
  6. 2good4U

    2good4U Semi-Pro

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    That's a very impressive and well done review!
     
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  7. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    It's actually Speedo! I wear those when I practice serve as they have magical deep pockets that you can fit 16 balls in!:D
     
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  8. 2good4U

    2good4U Semi-Pro

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    I would suggest you try doing a better job of keeping your head still and level.

    All good shots start with this.
     
    #8
  9. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Swing is actually good. Great stance. Some really good hits there. However on some hits you're late and get everything rushed, which is not good.
    And you got rushed against some deeper incoming balls where you didn't seem ready to either hit the ball on the rise, or step back (which you did in some situations). So you allow yourself too little time to do anything other than rush everything (including getting racquet head into lower position) and hit the ball late.
     
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  10. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    @Curious nice to see a new vid of you having a hit! BH looks pretty good imo. Do the first tip i mention below and I think you'll be laughing. you might need good fitness to do it for a whole match though.


    the shot at 0:17 in particular is a good one to analyse IMO. We can get away with this shot on the forehand side more often than not, although its not likely we'll produce an amazing ball... since you're making contact above shoulder height. This is hard enough on the FH, super hard on the 1hbh. all the resulting shot can be from this position is a deep moonball in all its glory. Don't hope for better than that. Don't hope to beat good players hitting shots in this position frequently either. I guess thats what my latest 1hbh thread was about. So the solution i've found best to work...
    I like to think to myself "get my hips level with the contact point" --> so if the ball is super high, i automatically do what i can to try and make contact with my hips at the same height as it. Not that this always happens, but i do close the gap. Instead of contacting above my shoulder, i'll atleast make contact between my hips and shoulder. Or instead of making contact around my ankles, i'll at least make contact above my knee. So this looks like hitting on the rise, jumping up to hit, or moving back to hit the ball when its coming down. but you're not thinking about that, you're just thinking about getting your hips level with contact, and your movement organically happens from there.
    watch your video again... see if you agree with this: you seem to hug the baseline, moving side to side. thats good, but the ball machine (and an opponent in a real match even more so) is sending you balls of differening depths and heights. You have to move forwards sometimes, backwards other times, as well as lower (bend your knees) and higher (jumping up to hit). Its like your movement is 2-dimensional at the moment, but it needs to be 3-dimensional if you want more consistency. also do you notice nearly every shot that you made contact with around hip height turns out to be a good one?

    the shots at 0:14 and 0:17 seem to have this weird side spin thing going on. are you intentionally trying to hit DTL? if i were you i'd just practice hitting cross court and master that first. Harder and harder. DTL is the same shot you just change your body positioning and you have less margin for error (if you're late now it goes out, as opposed to going in the middle of the court being late on a cross court shot)


    Looks like you also like the wawrinka style chest opening through contact. Great! I see you have good spin on your shots too. One thing thats important i think is that when he hits a backhand cross court, he makes contact when his chest is facing the left net post. If you can try and keep that consistent i think it would help your placement be more consistent.
     
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  11. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    I think tennis balla once said that you should try to hit most balls at about the same height, which requires great footwork. I feel like stepping in and taking the ball on the rise maybe a better strategy to prevent being late. I practiced that a few times and you really get used to with time.

    Nope, not intentional.:D
     
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  12. TenFanLA

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    Good hitting.
    Agree with @FiReFTW: Racket takeback and preparation should be done earlier.
    Disagree with @FiReFTW: shorts are not too short, your legs are too long.
     
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  13. movdqa

    movdqa G.O.A.T.

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    I think that Fire* had the best response.

    My gut feeling is that spacing is an issue - but it takes a while to find your ideal spacing and then to modify your footwork for that spacing.
     
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  14. ptuanminh

    ptuanminh Semi-Pro

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    After the shot, you need to be more balanced.
     
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  15. onehandbh

    onehandbh Legend

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    @Curious , your bh looks like it might be good on clay. How is it on clay courts?

    btw, do you ever visit Bali?
     
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  16. 34n

    34n Rookie

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    Left foot is never loaded, therefore hips and legs are exluded from the shots. All the rest just the result.
    Get under the ball, keep wiegt on your left leg untill you start movig toward the contact. Dot think much about your upper body and arm. Just relax them.
     
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  17. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Agree that you’re way late; can’t imagin how you’d be able to do anything but lob on any ball you had to move to at all. And might be why you’re leaning back on quite a few.

    Disagree w Fire* about the strike; circular is the new way; you might be overdoing it on some shots.

    Having said that your BH is better than most. Keep hitting w the machine. Reps are everything.
     
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  18. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Nice hitting man but that racquet is way too light :)

    I hit a fundamentally different bh so get your salt out, but I think the kind you are hitting needs a hammer grip. The pistol it looks like you are using leads to a wristier and weaker contact I think.
     
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  19. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    Bad news
    Off balance
    Improper weight distribution
    Not enough rotation
    Spacing

    Looks like a windy day, could have affected your strokes but good news is its all fixable quite easily with practice. You are off balance, your right leg needs to be stable and strong and it comes from being a bit lower in your stance. You can extend upright but right now you are not even loading much with the right leg. Without this balance, everything is gonna be out of place, this should be addressed first. Second, your weight distribution is not in unison with lower and upper body, your lower body seems to be going forward but your upper body is falling backwards, which makes me think your you are resting on a wobbly foundation, if your right leg is not firmly planted and loading or gathering power from the ground, from bending then you don't have a foundation to rest on to rotate. Then lastly, you need even more rotation, gotta show more of your right shoulder to your opponent, turn even more.

    Another thing throwing you off is spacing, you gotta give yourself space to swing otherwise the ball will move too close to your body and that prep work is for nothing. You have to move yourself around the ball, create space with adjustment steps. You have to be comfortable with taking ball on rise, shoulder height or when its dropping. Best is to take on the rise, its easiest but also hardest to do cause you need good footwork, easy cause it will be in your strike zone. Shoulder height is least desirable for many reasons and it most likely will hit the net and when you move back to allow ball to drop then you need to get even lower with your entire stance or else it will fly long when you hit it.

    Watch him and compare, you should be able to identify your mistakes from my post and this video.

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  20. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Which rotation?
     
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  21. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Edit: somebody should start these 2 cent opinion things with "dude ... good job, you are ripping the ball nicely ... took a lot of work to get to that". There ... somebody said it. Hard to get a compliment around here sometimes. :p

    @Curious ... good hitting. And the shorter shorts are making a come back ... just not at my house. :D

    I agree with a lot of what was said here... I will throw in my 2 cents.

    To my eye, you have overdone the off arm thing at contact, and my guess is that also translated into your bowed back at contact. Also ... have to echo the idea of being totally up on that right leg (weight transfer) on the closed stance 1hbh. I checked the first several strokes at contact, and you are on the front foot before you start the shoulder uncoiling. It just seems you could be more loaded on front leg, and in time (the by the bounce thing).

    Anyway ... here is you at contact, and Fed and Wawrinka (both on full cuts at the ball). Note their off arm and lower back posture.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #21
  22. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    Now when I looked again and paid attention I see that much of shoulders rotation happens after the hit :) funny how I didn't notice this earlier!
     
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  23. NuBas

    NuBas Hall of Fame

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    Yeah and most of it is trust, cause the more you turn the less you will be able to look at the ball cause we all want to see what we are hitting but with OHBH you kinda have to use your peripheral vision. OP has same problems as others who are learning OHBH cause they feel uncomfortable turning too much cause it will take away from their ability to see the ball but you must turn your shoulders more, a good cue is to show your back or right shoulder blade to your opponent.

    Also you can see his lack of shoulder rotation from the jacket he is wearing, the black/white fabric separates his arm from shoulders and you can see it doesn't rotate back enough.

    Though I think the key issue is his balance and stance, everything else crumbles as a result of this.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  24. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    This looks like a full shoulder turn to me ... at least for an adult rec player :p:

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    From the stills, here is a simple tip that really helps. Put your left pointer finger not on the throat, but rest it on the mains where they enter the stringbed. That lets you know where the strings are
     
    #25
  26. Znak

    Znak Rookie

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    Looking good, have to agree with most of the comments on here — from that angle it looks like you never transfer your weight to your front foot (or arching your back like @ByeByePoly is stating) causing your front shoulder to be angled upwards. Also, like @FiReFTW is stating your prep is too late, and because of that to me it looks like you're forcing way too much of your arm to hit the shot and using less of the chain. Usually that left arm should come back à la Federer to help prevent you from overrotating that shoulder open. Nice stuff though @Curious!

    EDIT: Just rewatching, you got some high bounces from your ball machine forcing you to take the ball higher up since you didn't reposition further back or take it on the rise. When you had lower shots that you took at waist level (or just a bit above) they were more consistent and were your best shots...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  27. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    But he was hitting CC balls all the way, I don't think those couple of DTL's were intentional at all, they likely resulted from hitting too late...I don't think it's bad prep shoulder turn for a CC.

    Of course, if one wants to mask his shot intention from the stance then it would be wise to rotate more on prep...

    However the angle of turning through the swing is not impressive and OP could open his shoulders up more on impact...especially taking into account those were CCs...hip/shoulders rotation is there but it's minimal...probably related to other things you mentioned like stability, weight distribution...
     
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  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    First, you are swinging from the elbow (starting with a bent elbow and straightening the elbow as part of your forward swing). Rather, your arm should straighten before the beginning of the forward swing and the swing path should be generated with a combination of UBR, arm pronation/supination, and hinging from the shoulder. Second, you are setting up too close to the ball and then over-rotating before contact to compensate for that. I also think your semi-western backhand grip is too extreme and either contributes to, or is compensation for, your crowded set up. I think much of these issues arise out of your attempt to hit high balls to your backhand with topspin. Further, contrary to what some have said, you are not hitting late, but, early because you are too close to the ball and you are using such an extreme grip.

    Try setting up in a closed stance, turn your back to the target, straighten your arm before starting your forward swing, make contact about a foot closer to the net than your right foot and maintain the angle between your arm and racquet throughout your forward swing.

    Stefan Edberg had one of the greatest 1hb's of all time, and one of the most technically perfect 1hb's I've ever seen. I would recommend studying and emulating his backhand. Unfortunately, there isn't much in the way of close up, slow motion videos, but, there are a lot of Edberg backhand highlight videos that you can study. Here's one slow motion video and a highlight video:



     
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  29. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    "First, you are swinging from the elbow (starting with a bent elbow and straightening the elbow as part of your forward swing). "

    Watching Fed, Wawrinka and Dimitrov 1hbh slow motion, they all start the forward swing with a bent elbow. Somewhere around the hand reaching the front leg they are all in full extension. I couldn't find a Edberg sideview video to track his elbow bend, but did see a still pic of him in full backswing with a little flex at his elbow. How cool is it to watch old video and see Edberg hit that bh?

    Edit: I think Curious and Fed are swinging from shoulder and upper arm ... not elbow ... just late extension of forearm.

    2 cents. :cool:
     
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  30. zalive

    zalive Hall of Fame

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    I too think it's late extension.
    However, interesting but three players you mention use their other arm to drop the racquet's head down prior to initiating swing. They don't do the loop swing like Edberg, Gasquet or Henin (or Shapo). So I guess later elbow extension might have something to do with speeding up the acceleration because of shorter swing path (relative to loopy type swing)?
     
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  31. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    As you know, swinging from the shoulder with a slightly bent elbow is not the same as bending and straightening the elbow to generate forward swing. As you also know, I've written many, many times, Federer is not a good backhand model to emulate.
     
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  32. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Yes I know. ;) I think you should state that as a Limpin opinion that a better 1hbh is "an Edberg" , rather than say Curious and Fed and Wawrinka and Dimitrov and Gasquet are doing it wrong. Poor Curious might not appreciate reworking his 1hbh to find out a year later he was originally hitting it like the GOAT .. only with an arched back.
     
    #32
  33. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    I think bent elbows can be a thing even in long loopy swings. Think CoCo 2hbh ... all kind of elbow bend, but big swing. Same with Zverev.

    I think even Edberg probably had some bend in backswing, but from the videos his 1hbh does seem to have a long pendulum swing. My guess is he straightens any slight bend immediately in forward swing, where most will uncoil a ways not reaching full extension of arm until near front leg (before contact I guess is the real key).

    [​IMG]

     
    #33
  34. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Wawrinka and Gasquet do not have the same technical defect in their swings that Federer and, to a lesser extent, Dimitrov does.
     
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  35. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    No. Watch again:



    Compare Lendl who has a slightly bent elbow, but, hinges from the shoulder and maintains the bend in his elbow throughout the swing:

     
    #35
  36. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Both Wawrinka and Gasquet start with a bent elbow when the shoulder starts uncoiling.

    Lendl appears to be straight arm at contact ... but video and angle isn't that good. Regardless, I wasn't making a blanket statement that everyone got to full extension by contact on their 1hbh.

    Man ... did Lendl hit it way out in front of him on a 1hbh.

    [​IMG]


    Here is a better pic at contact ... at least in this one had some flex at contact:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
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  37. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Man ... it's frustrating trying to find quality video on Edberg.

    This isn't very good quality video, but you can see Edberg has "some" elbow bend at full take back. I just haven't found video from the side so you can see how fast he goes to extension. From his swing, it's obviously pretty instantly in the forward swing.

    [​IMG]
     
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  38. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    How else are you going to knock people down at the net??
     
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  39. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    Try his match against Tsongo or practice bid with fed
     
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  40. ByeByePoly

    ByeByePoly Legend

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    Hey @Curious ... you got some good tips before it turned into tennis memory lane. ;)
     
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  41. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    This is a very nice video where you see Edberg's very simple looking great strokes. The backhand takeback is beautifully smooth. I might try to work specifically on that.
     
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  42. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    Fedr modeled his backhand after Edbrgrg. It was just modified for modern racquet and strings and technique.

    The Fedr 1HBH is going to be the best to learn and most versatile. Staminal is tough and limited in some situations. Gasquet's is pretty but too strict.
     
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  43. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    Meaning Edberg backhand wouldn't work today?
     
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  44. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    It would work as a counterpunching shot. Because it's a very smooth flowing shot.

    But Fedr backhand is what Edbrg backhand would be in today's game adjusted to modern racquet and string tech. Fedr just maximizes kinetic potential to what Edberg did. That's why he can be more offensive with it.
     
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  45. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    With eastern backhand grip I struggle getting enough spin and keeping the ball in the court
     
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  46. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    Go continental. Continental for a onehanded backhand is like hitting semiwestern forehand in terms of spin potential. Also less likely to shank it.
     
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  47. Curious

    Curious Hall of Fame

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    How come? I would think it's just the opposite.
     
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  48. MasturB

    MasturB Legend

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    Continental gives your wrist more flexibility.

    How do you think Fred hits those flick backhands? Try doing that with a semi-western forehand grip.
     
    #48
  49. StringSnapper

    StringSnapper Professional

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    Yeah thats great advice imo. It makes you more consistent so you "feel" the ball more and you can hit harder and it still goes in
     
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  50. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    I think the other commenters have made good remarks. I would just add that I like to start students who want to learn the 1HBH out by having them hit sideways stance with a mostly shoulder raising motion. Lifting the strings up the back of the ball from the shoulder. I set the grip by having them stick their arm out with a fist and then place the racquet in the fist with the strings straight vertical. This gives them their contact location and an easy way to find the grip. Hitting with a lifting motion like this you can hit with almost no backswing if the incoming ball is fast, and the directional control is terrific. Once they are comfortable with that we add in the rest of the kinetic chain and let it flow a little more naturally.

    I feel like your contact position is too far back and you've developed a fairly successful habit of fighting the ball off. I think a lot of the other issues stem from there, and maybe you never developed the lift from the shoulder.

    So my two things I would tell you to work on is get that contact position arms length in front and lift from the shoulder into contact and try to finish up high rather than far around, if that makes sense.
     
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