One handed backhand for comments ( video )

[MasturB]

Yeah thats great advice imo. It makes you more consistent so you "feel" the ball more and you can hit harder and it still goes in

Hard to do against higher level players.

Balls come faster, more variations of spin. Heavier topspin balls will just JUMP off the court. Also depends on how tall you are. If you're under 6"0 you're limited in how many angles you can cut off and take early.

But yes ideally you want to replicate a consistent contact point but realistically as you start playing better players you have to be versatile and be able to adapt your contact point and kinetic chain with a 1HBH.

 

[Kevo]

Continental gives your wrist more flexibility.

How do you think Fred hits those flick backhands? Try doing that with a semi-western forehand grip.

Continental is for serves and volleys. I tend to hit my forehands and backhands with pretty much the same grip just my arm turns over to the other side. I use a semi-western grip.

 

[movdqa]

Continental is for serves and volleys. I tend to hit my forehands and backhands with pretty much the same grip just my arm turns over to the other side. I use a semi-western grip.

In ancient times, the Continental was used for everything. Then grips became more specialized. I use Eastern and Continental backhands depending on the circumstances and what I'm trying to do.

 

[MasturB]

Continental is for serves and volleys. I tend to hit my forehands and backhands with pretty much the same grip just my arm turns over to the other side. I use a semi-western grip.

I am not gonna tell you how to play your game and get you out of your comfort zone.

I'm simply telling you that mechanically, a slightly modified continental grip will give you more wrist flexibility which will give you a better acess to a mix of power and spin.

 

[Kevo]

I forgot slices. Continental would be good for slices. For topspin 1HBH that this thread deals with, it's a bad idea.

 

[Kevo]

I am not gonna tell you how to play your game and get you out of your comfort zone.

I'm simply telling you that mechanically, a slightly modified continental grip will give you more wrist flexibility which will give you a better acess to a mix of power and spin.

I'd like to see a video of someone hitting a 1HBH with power and spin using a continental grip. I've never seen it. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by wrist flexibility. If you want to rip a 1HBH with pace and spin you want your wrist to be in a strong position at contact.

 

[StringSnapper]

With eastern backhand grip I struggle getting enough spin and keeping the ball in the court

From your video your average ball looks a little too loopy for my liking. If you switch to eastern itll help you hit through more.

Two things to try:

1. the esr thing (use your off hand to make sure racquet face is well below the handle in the slot position) - i could hit more top with an eastern than a sw simply by focusing on this.

2. Circular swing path (which you already do) generates more topspin.

When you use an eastern for topspin you hust gotta make sure your palm gets under the grip. Its a different grip slightly than an eastern slice, due to the palm being more under.

-----

Imo tho this stuff is all minor refinements. we can even give the pros minor refinements. You want a good shot today? You want to win matches now? Use your legs to hit every ball at the same height as best you can. Your stroke is already decent enough

 

[MasturB]

I forgot slices. Continental would be good for slices. For topspin 1HBH that this thread deals with, it's a bad idea.

Old line of thinking.

Same line of thinking that says Fed only hits extreme eastern forehands. Reality is he also uses semi and western depending on scenario and sometimes even continental on the run/return.

Modern game is all about adaptability and those who stay strict to a narrow set of tools do not get rewarded.

Fed has the best 1HBH in the world for this reason. Because he has so many variations and grips to adapt to what he needs to do.

 

[movdqa]

Pull up a video of Rod Laver.

 

[movdqa]

Old line of thinking.

Same line of thinking that says Fed only hits extreme eastern forehands. Reality is he also uses semi and western depending on scenario and sometimes even continental on the run/return.

Modern game is all about adaptability and those who stay strict to a narrow set of tools do not get rewarded.

Fed has the best 1HBH in the world for this reason. Because he has so many variations and grips to adapt to what he needs to do.

A big difference from the old days in using multiple grips. I can go Conti, Eastern and SW on the forehand, eastern and conti on the backhand and serve. It gives you more flexibility and choice.

 

[MasturB]

A big difference from the old days in using multiple grips. I can go Conti, Eastern and SW on the forehand, eastern and conti on the backhand and serve. It gives you more flexibility and choice.

Yep. Kind of hard to hit semi-western or western with wooden racquets. RIP your wrist and elbow and shoulder. With modern tech and strings, you have so many options.

 

[Curious]

What's amazing to me with his backhand is the immediate start of takeback as soon as Federer hits the ball in this video.

 

[MasturB]

What's amazing to me with his backhand is the immediate start of takeback as soon as Federer hits the ball in this video.

He's older. Takeback earlier, use your wisdom of the incoming speed and bounce and you don't have to rush the swing. Earlier takeback also allows a longer swing which is easier to produce power for older guys.

 

[Curious]

@Curious , your bh looks like it might be good on clay. How is it on clay courts?

btw, do you ever visit Bali?

Unfortunately stuck with hard courts at the moment. Bali is on the list to be visitted.

 

[StringSnapper]

Hard to do against higher level players.

Balls come faster, more variations of spin. Heavier topspin balls will just JUMP off the court. Also depends on how tall you are. If you're under 6"0 you're limited in how many angles you can cut off and take early.

But yes ideally you want to replicate a consistent contact point but realistically as you start playing better players you have to be versatile and be able to adapt your contact point and kinetic chain with a 1HBH.

I agree, but having the thought as "i will maintain my contact point" helps you maintain it better than if you don't think that anyway. Even against good players. If you dont think that at all you can play some super lazy tennis, even against bad players

 

[StringSnapper]

I am not gonna tell you how to play your game and get you out of your comfort zone.

I'm simply telling you that mechanically, a slightly modified continental grip will give you more wrist flexibility which will give you a better acess to a mix of power and spin.

I strongly disagree that continental is better for a topspin 1hbh. For a pure drive with no spin, yeah sure. For a slice? Yes it will work. For consistently trying to hit topspin? I don't think so... I've tried it before and it hurt my wrist.

Semi western gives the most spin, hands down. Just Eastern (wawrinka style with the palm under the grip, a stronger eastern) gives the best combo of power + spin IMO and can be easily switched to a more conservative eastern for slice.

 

[MasturB]

I agree, but having the thought as "i will maintain my contact point" helps you maintain it better than if you don't think that anyway. Even against good players. If you dont think that at all you can play some super lazy tennis, even against bad players

Well, the contact point can be maintained in terms of relative distance to your body. The contact point on a low ball should be the almost the same as a medium bounce, just slightly adjusting the contact angle.

I do agree that a consistent contact point is the best way to teach consistency in general. I spent an entire hour working with a junior today on contact point. He went from jamming himself on the backhand and overcompensating with wrists to getting proper extension and pull through the contact point. Once they can understand the principles of the contact point then moving around the ball and creating the contact point becomes easier.

 

[MasturB]

I strongly disagree that continental is better for a topspin 1hbh. For a pure drive with no spin, yeah sure. For a slice? Yes it will work. For consistently trying to hit topspin? I don't think so... I've tried it before and it hurt my wrist.

Semi western gives the most spin, hands down. Just Eastern (wawrinka style with the palm under the grip, a stronger eastern) gives the best combo of power + spin IMO and can be easily switched to a more conservative eastern for slice.

Just remember that power is generated from more RPM. Stan's flat backhands have a higher spin rate than Almagros spinny and loopy backhands.

It also depends on what grip size you're working with.

 

[StringSnapper]

Just remember that power is generated from more RPM. Stan's flat backhands have a higher spin rate than Almagros spinny and loopy backhands.

It also depends on what grip size you're working with.

How do you think grip size influences the 1hbh? I've always preferred on the larger side myself, but nothing crazy

 

[MasturB]

How do you think grip size influences the 1hbh?

Every one is anatomically different.

When I used a 1/2 grip, I was using continental for just about everything on a topspin backhand. (Power and spin). I would modify my swing path or contact angle depending on shot I wanted.

When I switched to a 1/4 grip, my slices were not as crisp as the 1/2 grip (and trust me I tried turning slightly the bevels in both directions to find that same crispness I had at 1/2), but my topspin backhands I was able to rip at will a lot more with the added wrist flexibility and looseness. And mind you I'm not forcing the wrist supination or windshield.

It's weird to explain. With 1/2 I had a more firm grip plowing through the zone. Shots were more safe. 1/4 I have to be more firm with the grip (and I go through overgrips a lot more to make sure it doesn't move when i sweat) but I'm generating more RPMs and have access to spin in more situations. Its easier for me to pull off the flick backhand. It's easier for me to rip low balls(half volleys) on the baseline and still generate spin and power. I'd say I probably had more control with the 1/2. But I have a better balance of power and control with the 1/4. The only thing that that suffered mostly is the slice backhand by about 15%.

 

[zalive]

Man ... did Lendl hit it way out in front of him on a 1hbh.

I wouldn't know what's wrong with hitting BH much in front of you (I reckon you don't think it's bad eather). Stability is great, even with loose grip.
Lateral reach?

IDK but this stays my personal raw model for a topspin FH, it's closest to how I try to hit a BH from modern 'faces'...plus footage easily available in good res

 

[Limpinhitter]

Man ... it's frustrating trying to find quality video on Edberg.

This isn't very good quality video, but you can see Edberg has "some" elbow bend at full take back. I just haven't found video from the side so you can see how fast he goes to extension. From his swing, it's obviously pretty instantly in the forward swing.

You are missing the point, again.

 

[Limpinhitter]

With eastern backhand grip I struggle getting enough spin and keeping the ball in the court

An eastern grip may help resolve the defects in your technique, such as your contact poit and swing path.

 

[ByeByePoly]

You are missing the point, again.

I was afraid of that.

 

[zalive]

You are missing the point, again.

The question?? What was the question??

I was afraid of that.

(no off..., jk)

On a serious note...what is the point, Limpin'?

 

[zalive]

An eastern grip may help resolve the defects in your technique, such as your contact poit and swing path.

But you probably think that pronounced contact point in front of a player is a defect. Yet on a highest level you still have players who hit like that. I gave Gasquet as an example, well you haven't got many topspin BHs you can consider better than his.

If you hit in front of you as this, you need extreme grip.

 

[IowaGuy]

I'd like to see a video of someone hitting a 1HBH with power and spin using a continental grip.

Edberg's topspin BH had quite a bit of power and spin

How would you describe Edberg's 1HBH grip?

 

[movdqa]

 

[Curious]

Edberg's topspin BH had quite a bit of power and spin

How would you describe Edberg's 1HBH grip?

Looks continental to me.

 

[jga111]

Continental gives your wrist more flexibility.

How do you think Fred hits those flick backhands? Try doing that with a semi-western forehand grip.

Completely different shot. Completely different swing path.

While yes a "wristy" backhand may give you access to different types of spin, it is more error-prone.

And regardless, with a SW OHBH (which I have), it's all about swing path and power with more rotation (e.g Gasquet style).

You can still go for a flick - it's a different shot. No rule saying you can only have one BH grip.

But if you want the best of both - power AND spin. SW / extreme Easter grip for me will help facilitate that.

 

[movdqa]

Looks continental to me.

Me too.

 

[movdqa]

Completely different shot. Completely different swing path.

While yes a "wristy" backhand may give you access to different types of spin, it is more error-prone.

And regardless, with a SW OHBH (which I have), it's all about swing path and power with more rotation (e.g Gasquet style).

You can still go for a flick - it's a different shot. No rule saying you can only have one BH grip.

But if you want the best of both - power AND spin. SW / extreme Easter grip for me will help facilitate that.

How would you hit topspin off a very low ball with a SW grip?

 

[jga111]

How would you hit topspin off a very low ball with a SW grip?

Easy (in terms of explaining - not doing ). With a fast swing (so usually heavy leg weight transfer, full coil rotation and hit from low position - so your knee will bending and swing HIGH and UP so you have that wind wiper effect (which comes more naturally with a SW grip). I'm not just saying this - I play this shot often

 

[movdqa]

Easy (in terms of explaining - not doing ). With a fast swing (so usually heavy leg weight transfer, full coil rotation and hit from low position - so your knee will bending and swing HIGH and UP so you have that wind wiper effect (which comes more naturally with a SW grip). I'm not just saying this - I play this shot often

When I say low, I mean like ten inches off the ground.

 

[MasturB]

When I say low, I mean like ten inches off the ground.

Going to be some very thin margins and tons of room for shank action.

 

[jga111]

When I say low, I mean like ten inches off the ground.

10 inches? I thought you meant lower. Same principles applies.

 

[movdqa]

10 inches? I thought you meant lower. Same principles applies.

It's easier with a Continental grip.

 

[jga111]

Going to be some very thin margins and tons of room for shank action.

And that's the beauty of having a good slice and employing what is required at higher level (shot selection)

 

[jga111]

It's easier with a Continental grip.

Maybe for you.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Good find

Turns out:
- you can hit a topspin 1hbh with continental ... who knew?

 

[MasturB]

You can maximize the length of a flick with continental.

With semi-western because of the racquet face it's really really difficult to hit a flick on the full stretch and not very pragmatic at all.

 

[Kevo]

I can't tell what laver did from that video. Looks like it was probably continental, but he was a serve and volley guy wasn't he. In the videos I've seen he's always trying to get to net. So It's possible he did hit continental on his 1HBH, but I don't think the video I've seen of his backhand is remotely convincing that it's something someone should emulate. Especially in today's game.

As far as Edberg goes, he probably did hit with a continental 1HBH at times. He's also a serve and volley guy. I'm old enough to have watched a lot of his matches. His backhand was decent, and at times he hit nice winners, but his weapons were serve, volley, and forehand.

Also, here's the vid of him hitting in 2014 from earlier in the thread. Not using the continental on these when just hitting practice from the baseline.

 

[Kevo]

Good find

Turns out:
- you can hit a topspin 1hbh with continental ... who knew?

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Admittedly you have to cut him some slack because of age, but you can see he's much more effective with that grip on his forehand side. I foresee lots of problems trying to go against the modern topspin game with a continental grip on the 1HBH. It's mechanically disadvantageous in quite a few obvious ways compared to a grip where the strings more naturally line up vertical with the arm in front of the body.

 

[Kevo]

Anybody got a vid of a modern player hitting with a continental on the 1HBH? Anyone have video of themselves hitting some nice topspin shots with a continental?

 

[Kevo]

You can maximize the length of a flick with continental.

With semi-western because of the racquet face it's really really difficult to hit a flick on the full stretch and not very pragmatic at all.

Yes and you can hit squash shots with a backhand grip on the forehand side, but I don't think the thread is about shots you will hit 1% of the time. An eastern backhand grip is not something you would tell people to hit their forehands with even though you can do it and it might even be a good choice on occasion.

 

[MasturB]

Stan and Roger both hit with continental sometimes.

Again, the modern game is about adaptability and being able to use different grips to produce a variety of outcomes. It's not a one-sized fits all. It's like people who say Fred only uses extreme eastern. There's tons of footage of him using semi-western and western on the forehand side depending on the situation (height of the ball, location on the court, etc.). He even uses continental for forehand sometimes. It's not a one grip for all.

 

[movdqa]

Anybody got a vid of a modern player hitting with a continental on the 1HBH? Anyone have video of themselves hitting some nice topspin shots with a continental?

I could try doing some footage once I start playing tennis again. I haven't been able to play since October and have a few surgeries, hopefully this summer, which should put me back together again so that it isn't dangerous to hit tennis balls.

 

[MasturB]

Yes and you can hit squash shots with a backhand grip on the forehand side, but I don't think the thread is about shots you will hit 1% of the time. An eastern backhand grip is not something you would tell people to hit their forehands with even though you can do it and it might even be a good choice on occasion.

An eastern backhand grip is mostly a western forehand grip.

I think you're a bit confused. Hitting a flick backhand with a continental grip is the most optimal. Yes you can do it with Eastern or Semi-Western, but you aren't going to get the most bang for your buck with either of those. There's a reason the two players in the world who hit the best flick one handed backhands (Federer and Dimitrov) use continental on the run or full stretch. Anatomically, biomechanically, and physiologically it makes the most sense.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Topspin:

To me, topspin = swing path to contact (assume square racquet face at contact for this discussion)

Swing path = hand path + racquet head path

Any discussion about "which grip helps more with topspin" is really asking which grip makes it easier to hit the max low to high swing path to contact.

I would argue that how much you allow the racquet head to drop below the hand on forward swing, matters more than the grip when it comes to topspin. I will use my 40+ year flattish 1hbh as evidence for this at the bottom of the post.

This is what I mean by rh drop below the hand. Obviously we can find more extreme examples ... just think Nishikori on some of his 2hbhs.

You can hit pretty good topspin ... any grip ... with just a low to high hand path, with the racquet head level with hand during the swing. You can hit really good (technical term ) by dropping the racquet head below the hand on those low to high hand swing paths.

Here is one of Edberg's from the video above. You would miss it watching live.

Here is a couple of @Curious rh drops ... I didn't check all of them.

I don't coach ... so my opinion on this is from online technical discussion/video, and what I have experienced trying the "extra rh drop". I pretty much abandoned my 1hbh drive (not slice ... 1hbh slice is the meaning of life and my path to winning ) for the last 2+ years converting to the 2hbh. I probably hit less than a couple hundred 1hbh drives in 2 years ... and you know I live on the ball machine. I had avoided the big rh drop on the 2hbh, because I didn't think that was my path to a repeatable low UE 2hbh. I decided to add it to my ball machine sessions this spring because I have come a long way on the repeatable thing. I honestly just expected a "little topspin" bump on a given swing. That is not what I found. I got a big jump in topspin for the same swing by just letting the rh drop as the forward swing starts (limp relaxed drop). Bottom line ... I can't match the spin I get with the rh drop with ANY low to high hand only swing path. The other thing is ... it's a more effortless topspin. And yes ... it's a more difficult thing to time, I still wouldn't recommend it at the start of the stroke learning curve. That said ... for me at this point, it was easier to add (still in progress) than I expected. Some early rash of mishits ... but that settled down pretty quickly.

OK ... back to the 1hbh. I had hit a bunch of 2hbhs on the ball machine the other day, and was pretty much ready to pack up and leave. For whatever reason ... the Dimitrov 1hbh pic popped into my head (that's Tomaz's Feel Good Tennis btw). My thought was ... "I wonder if I can get the same topspin adder on my retired 1hbh with the bigger racquet head drop?" It only took a dozen swings to have the thought "MF ... why in the hell didn't someone tell me this when I was 20 years old ... MF MF MF".

Size of racquet head drop matters.

 

[MasturB]

Producing topspin can be done with a semi-western, eastern, or continental backhand grip.

There are variables involved: Swing Path, Racquet Angle, Location of Trajectory, Launch Angle, etc.

What separates the pros from the recs, is they know how to adjust all of these variables including adjust their grips to produce the outcome they want.