One of the biggest upsets in the sports history

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Age is a mitigating factor only when you are not yet established.
Once you have won 4 Majors there are certain expectations. Age goes out the window.
Shocking Olympic upset to injured old Djoker, loss to 48 y.o. clown Monfils, Botic...
Can anyone recall an ATG struggling like this after firmly establishing himself as a #1 player?
:unsure:
Losing a close match to one of the greatest players ever in a final is "struggling"?

Djokovic lost to a then 38-year-old Federer at the ATP Finals, in a match that cost him the YE #1.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
I think Carlitos losing in straight sets was the biggest shocker. I’m not sure there was even an option of betting Carlos to “win at least one set” since there isn’t for such big favorites sometimes. If there were, it would be at -50,000, which is an insane number; Botic to win in straight sets was at like +20,000.

Nobody understands what the hell these numbers mean.
+500 underdog means $100 wager wins $500. Most people get that.
Have no idea what -50,000 means.
 
He beat 3 consecutive top 10 players to win Indian Wells (Zverev, Sinner and Medvedev) in the QF, SF and Final.
He beat 3 consecutive top 10 players to win the French Open (Tsitsipas, Sinner and Zverev) in the QF, SF and Final.
He beat Medvedev in the SF and Djokovic in the final back to back to win Wimbledon....

Defeating Zverev multiple times, Sinner multiple times, Medvedev multiple times, Djokovic again in a slam final.

If you think that's luck on his side you're utterly embarrassing yourself babe.

Zverev is a slam choker. Everyone knows that’s by now. It’s the only reason he won RG. He loses Wimbledon if most likely of sinner takes out Medvedev as sinner is a nightmare for him on grass. Djoker has one leg at Wimbledon and he barely got by so nothing MUGafoe . Luck is luck. The stars aligned perfectly for Carlos this year considering his form and level. If they didn’t he probably doesn’t have anything but IW this year

and djoker probably beats him at RG too if he doesn’t withdraw due to injury
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Nobody understands what the hell these numbers mean.
+500 underdog means $100 wager wins $500. Most people get that.
Have no idea what -50,000 means.
It's American odds. Negative means bet $100 to win that amount, positive means bet that amount to win $100. In other words:

+100: bet $100 to win $100
+5000: bet $100 to win $5000
+20,000: bet $100 to win $20,000

-100: bet $100 to win $100
-1000: bet $1000 to win $100
-50,000: bet $50,000 to win $100
 
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Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Zverev is a slam choker. Everyone knows that’s by now. It’s the only reason he won RG. He loses Wimbledon if most likely of sinner takes out Medvedev as sinner is a nightmare for him on grass. Djoker has one leg at Wimbledon and he barely got by so nothing MUGafoe . Luck is luck. The stars aligned perfectly for Carlos this year considering his form and level. If they didn’t he probably doesn’t have anything but IW this year
It's amazing that the only reason Alcaraz has won slams is for other players failing. It's almost like you don't want to give any credit where it's due.

"Zverev choked, that's the only reason Alcaraz won RG".

"Alcaraz loses Wimbledon if Sinner takes out Medvedev".... but Sinner didn't do that. And instead Alcaraz has 4 slams while those two have just the one.

Everything is luck according to you, don't want to give any credit to Carlos. Keep crying. Carlos has 2 slams, not by luck but because he's a fantastic player. Keep cheering whatever weak player you support that isn't getting 2 slams in a calendar year.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Alcaraz is not even ready to lace big 3 boots

And I mean right now not raz as 21 vs them at 21

Any youngster getting beaten is no huge upset
Those were just betting odds. Someone losing with 1.01 odds is a huge upset

If you knew that was not a huge upset, you could have been a multi-millionaire by putting some money on van de Zandschulp to win this match
 
It's amazing that the only reason Alcaraz has won slams is for other players failing. It's almost like you don't want to give any credit where it's due.

"Zverev choked, that's the only reason Alcaraz won RG".

"Alcaraz loses Wimbledon if Sinner takes out Medvedev".... but Sinner didn't do that. And instead Alcaraz has 4 slams while those two have just the one.

Everything is luck according to you, don't want to give any credit to Carlos. Keep crying. Carlos has 2 slams, not by luck but because he's a fantastic player. Keep cheering whatever weak player you support that isn't getting 2 slams in a calendar year.


Not everything is luck but this year certainly was for alcaraz. Want to prove me otherwise then let’s see a dominant slam run. He hasn’t even had one. He was on the brink of losing in all of them.

And yes Zverev is a big time choker He was choking his lungs out way before Carlos came along LOL. He’s mentally weak. It’s why he’s slamless still at damn near 30
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Not everything is luck but this year certainly was for alcaraz. Want to prove me otherwise then let’s see a dominant slam run. He hasn’t even had one. He was on the brink of losing in all of them
And yet he won the French Open and Wimbledon defeating multiple top 10 players including the GOAT. LMAO some luck. ;):-D:-D Think it shows his immense grit and determination and skill to already have 4 slams at such a young age.

I don't know what dominant run you are looking for considering Novak has never won a slam without losing at least one set, Sinner was down and out even worse than Carlos at this years AO. It's giving hater vibes.
 
And yet he won the French Open and Wimbledon defeating multiple top 10 players including the GOAT. LMAO some luck. ;):-D:-D Think it shows his immense grit and determination and skill to already have 4 slams at such a young age.

I don't know what dominant run you are looking for considering Novak has never won a slam without losing at least one set, Sinner was down and out even worse than Carlos at this years AO. It's giving hater vibes.

So where was this grit and determination last night? He just got blitzed and destroyed by some journeymen mug
 

smalahove

Hall of Fame
In '21 he reached the QF at USO, beating Ruud - at the time #11 - and Schwartzman (#14).
I remember seeing the match against Ruud, and his gs were just as epic as they were yesterday.
Griekspoor is a similar player, in the sense that when they're on, they have the level to beat anyone. Except Djokovic ofc.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
So where was this grit and determination last night? He just got blitzed and destroyed by some journeymen mug
He had a bad loss, i'm not denying that, but you're being pathetic by saying he's simply had luck all year when the 3 big titles he's won (2 slams and a Masters) he beat multiple top 10 players including the GOAT and Sinner multiple times along with others.

Just admit you got it wrong babe. It's easy to do. :)
 
He had a bad loss, i'm not denying that, but you're being pathetic by saying he's simply had luck all year when the 3 big titles he's won (2 slams and a Masters) he beat multiple top 10 players including the GOAT and Sinner multiple times along with others.

Just admit you got it wrong babe. It's easy to do. :)

No LOL. I’m not wrong when I look at alcarazs overall level this year. . Luck exists caused by a perfect confluence of events to benefit you. But that’s ok. We can agree to disagree LOL
 

legcramp

Professional
After shocking Olympic loss to huge underdog Djoker, Raz said Monfils match was his worst ever. Now this 2R shocker.
Three out of four subpar matches?
Did Djoker take his soul?
:unsure:
Dementor_WB_F3_DementorAttacksHarry_Still_100615_Land.jpg
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
No LOL. I’m not wrong when I look at alcarazs overall level this year. . Luck exists caused by a perfect confluence of events to benefit you. But that’s ok. We can agree to disagree LOL
You don't defend a Wimbledon title at the age of 21 by beating the GOAT Djokovic in the final for the second straight year and after beating Medvedev in the SF. Back to back top 10 wins.

This coming just weeks after winning your first French Open where you beat top 10 Tsitsipas and then the #2 and Aus Open champ Sinner and then top 5 Zverev in the final. Three consecutive top 10 wins.

You seriously need to look up what luck is and adjust your definition babe.

That's before I even talk about Indian Wells.
 
You don't defend a Wimbledon title at the age of 21 by beating the GOAT Djokovic for the second straighr year in the final especially after beating Medvedev in the SF.

This coming just weeks after winning your first French Open where you beat top 10 Tsitsipas and then the Aus Open champ Sinner and then Zverev in the final. Three consecutive top 10 wins.

You seriously need to look up what luck is and adjust your definition babe.

For christ sakes Djoker was fresh off knee surgery with limited to average movement . I get it he’s the GOAT but he’s also a 37 year old man fresh off knee surgery too. LOL. This isn’t 2015 Wimbledon Djoker here that alcaraz took down


Go play some tennis after knee surgery and let me know you feel afterwards LOL
 

legcramp

Professional
You don't defend a Wimbledon title at the age of 21 by beating the GOAT Djokovic in the final for the second straight year and after beating Medvedev in the SF. Back to back top 10 wins.

This coming just weeks after winning your first French Open where you beat top 10 Tsitsipas and then the #2 and Aus Open champ Sinner and then top 5 Zverev in the final. Three consecutive top 10 wins.

You seriously need to look up what luck is and adjust your definition babe.

That's before I even talk about Indian Wells.
He's just coping, is normal.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
For christ sakes Djoker was fresh off knee surgery. I get it he’s the GOAT but he’s also a 37 year old man fresh off knee surgery too. LOL. This isn’t 2015 Wimbledon Djoker here that alcaraz took down


Go play some tennis after knee surgery and let me know you feel LOL
Oh but come the Olympics Djokovic was great and fine? And Sinner? And Zverev? And Tsitsipas? And every other freaking match this year?

It's just luck, luck, luck, luck, luck?

Do you hear yourself?
 
Oh but come the Olympics Djokovic was great and fine? And Sinner? And Zverev? And Tsitsipas? And every other freaking match this year?

It's just luck, luck, luck, luck, luck?

Do you hear yourself?

The Olympics Djokers knee was healing and he had more strength in his leg due to time progression and rehabbing it. That’s how injuries work. So that’s believable. Just like looks better now than at Wimbledon. He shouldn’t have even been in that Wimbledon final really. He’s just lucky the grass is field is so poor. Sinner would have put the complete beat down on hobbled Djoker too
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
The Olympics Djokers knee was healing and he had more strength in his leg due to time progression and rehabbing it. That’s how injuries work. So that’s believable. Just like looks better now than at Wimbledon. He shouldn’t have even been in that Wimbledon final really. He’s just lucky the grass is field is so poor. Sinner would have put the complete beat down on hobbled Djoker too
But Sinner lost to Medvedev remember? The same Medvedev that Alcaraz defeated?

Just more luck according to you hey?

Funny, no credit at all given.
 

NYTennisfan

Hall of Fame
Maybe he just isn't as great as some have thought. Agassi lost many early rounds too.
I don't think one early slam loss after a crazy summer of tennis and Olympic hangover is indicative of him not being great.

These are the last 7 slams he's played before this one

2022 USO - Won
2023 French - Cramps in Semis against Djokovic
2023 Wimbledon - Won
2023 USO - Semis loss to one of the best hardcourters of this generation, likely the 2nd best
2024 AO - Quarters loss to a top player in Zverev
2024 French - Won
2024 Wimbledon - Won

Won 4 out of 7, cramped out in a semi, loss in semi to great HC player and lost in quarter to another top player all at the age of 19-21. I mean, he's pretty great.
There's definitely some things he needs to improve on, namely shot tolerance and selection serve needs more consistency too, but his accomplishments thus far in slams have been pretty incredible and almost unprecedented at that age.
 

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think one early slam loss after a crazy summer of tennis and Olympic hangover is indicative of him not being great.

These are the last 7 slams he's played before this one

2022 USO - Won
2023 French - Cramps in Semis against Djokovic
2023 Wimbledon - Won
2023 USO - Semis loss to one of the best hardcourters of this generation, likely the 2nd best
2024 AO - Quarters loss to a top player in Zverev
2024 French - Won
2024 Wimbledon - Won

Won 4 out of 7, cramped out in a semi, loss in semi to great HC player and lost in quarter to another top player all at the age of 19-21. I mean, he's pretty great.
There's definitely some things he needs to improve on, namely shot tolerance and selection serve needs more consistency too, but his accomplishments thus far in slams have been pretty incredible and almost unprecedented at that age.
Didnt say he was not great. Just maybe not as great as some people think. This is not one tourney. It is 3 straight. This is a slump. Seems mental, but we will see.

I do think this does expose some things, but you are right, it is not long enough yet. But this could spiral out of control too. That is why sports is so fun, who knows what will happen.
 

TheSlicer

Hall of Fame
Nadal at the same age lost in the fourth round of the 2007 US Open to peak Ferrer.
Peak Ferrer? How could Ferrer be peak when Nadal was 21? Ferrer peak was at 30 years old when he made the slam final and was ranked 3 in the world, peak Nadal Lost in early rounds too, rosol, dustin brown, etc
 

Tano

Hall of Fame
Peak Ferrer? How could Ferrer be peak when Nadal was 21? Ferrer peak was at 30 years old when he made the slam final and was ranked 3 in the world, peak Nadal Lost in early rounds too, rosol, dustin brown, etc
Nadal's peak ended in 2010.
 

SonnyT

Legend
No one has proved that 2010 Nadal was better than 2011. The proof would be simple: Nadal had the higher winning percentage in 2010 or 2011, minus Djokovic for both years. People keep saying Nadal reached his peak in 2010, I'd like to see it!

Carlos just needs to have a talk with himself after the first two sets.
 

NYTennisfan

Hall of Fame
Didnt say he was not great. Just maybe not as great as some people think. This is not one tourney. It is 3 straight. This is a slump. Seems mental, but we will see.

I do think this does expose some things, but you are right, it is not long enough yet. But this could spiral out of control too. That is why sports is so fun, who knows what will happen.
Its one tourney really. Cincy was always a write-off coming right after the Olympics.

Carlos definitely has some things to work on in general but I do think this USO fail can be largely attributed to post-Olympic hangover not just the Olympic thing itself but the tough loss to Djokovic and mentally recovering from that. I'll chalk to this up as a one-off until it becomes a pattern.
 

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
Its one tourney really. Cincy was always a write-off coming right after the Olympics.

Carlos definitely has some things to work on in general but I do think this USO fail can be largely attributed to post-Olympic hangover not just the Olympic thing itself but the tough loss to Djokovic and mentally recovering from that. I'll chalk to this up as a one-off until it becomes a pattern.
Fair.
 

Lleytonstation

Talk Tennis Guru
#3 seed losing can hardly be the biggest upset of this year in tennis, let alone all sports. It may not even be the biggest upset of the week if #2 serves less than 50% today as he did in his last two matches.
Very true. It was a big upset, but not spectacular.
 

naylor73

Rookie
So where was this grit and determination last night? He just got blitzed and destroyed by some journeymen mug
Who obviously had a concise game plan and was able to execute. A tennis match is about more than just raw talent, ask Kyrgios, it’s about being able to think your way through a match. The net points won told the tale imo. It kept Tiny off balance and rushed. He never found his rhythm.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Definitely an interesting topic. Becker finished #2 in 89, but I think Lendl won the first 2 slams. I get the defending points system, but it is what it is that Carlos has 2 slams and Nole hasn’t won anything this year but the Olympics (any points for that?) and is No.2.
Lendl only won the AO, he lost at RG to Chang.
 
...........In terms of Alcaraz, he is the youngest member of the current ATP top 20 and one of the 3 youngest members of the current ATP top 50 I believe. Clearly his results at Cincinnati and at this tournament have been disappointing and yes he definitely needs to work on his serve. However I'm certainly not going to rush to predict the imminent decline of a guy that won the 2 previous majors, has won this tournament in the past, and only turned 21 less than 4 months ago. Of course predictions of him winning every major in sight in the future were also absurd.

Alcaraz on the men's side, and Swiatek on the women's, both seem to be held to unrealistically high standards IMO, especially in comparison to Sinner (20 months older than Alcaraz having played in 73 more tour level matches before this tournament got underway), and Sabalenka (3 years older than Swiatek, having played in 181 more tour level matches before this tournament got underway), respectively.

Well said, man. It's generally a compliment to be held to high standards, but the hype ( media and otherwise) and bizarre certainty expressed for / against what these kids will/won't achieve is so bizarre, it's fascinating. Assumptions made and then circulated as fact. Absurdity writ large.

don't look too much into this,,,, Botic is undefeated when he wins.
Heh, heh. There's looking too much and there's bulls***ing. This forum awash with both - can be amusing.
 
I don't think one early slam loss after a crazy summer of tennis and Olympic hangover is indicative of him not being great.

These are the last 7 slams he's played before this one

2022 USO - Won
2023 French - Cramps in Semis against Djokovic
2023 Wimbledon - Won
2023 USO - Semis loss to one of the best hardcourters of this generation, likely the 2nd best
2024 AO - Quarters loss to a top player in Zverev
2024 French - Won
2024 Wimbledon - Won

Won 4 out of 7, cramped out in a semi, loss in semi to great HC player and lost in quarter to another top player all at the age of 19-21. I mean, he's pretty great.
There's definitely some things he needs to improve on, namely shot tolerance and selection serve needs more consistency too, but his accomplishments thus far in slams have been pretty incredible and almost unprecedented at that age.
Yah, man. Incredible achievements, despite the room for improvement. I believe Carlitos' own take - that he needs time off. That seems more realistic than that he 'got lucky' to win what he has / that he will never win another major etc. Has anyone started a thread on the achievements of the current players on tour? It could be interesting to see in one place how the dudes are doing.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
I don't think one early slam loss after a crazy summer of tennis and Olympic hangover is indicative of him not being great.

These are the last 7 slams he's played before this one

2022 USO - Won
2023 French - Cramps in Semis against Djokovic
2023 Wimbledon - Won
2023 USO - Semis loss to one of the best hardcourters of this generation, likely the 2nd best
2024 AO - Quarters loss to a top player in Zverev
2024 French - Won
2024 Wimbledon - Won

Won 4 out of 7, cramped out in a semi, loss in semi to great HC player and lost in quarter to another top player all at the age of 19-21. I mean, he's pretty great.
There's definitely some things he needs to improve on, namely shot tolerance and selection serve needs more consistency too, but his accomplishments thus far in slams have been pretty incredible and almost unprecedented at that age.

Lets see Novak's 2011 to 2016 RG

2011 AO - Won
2011 RG - loss to Federer who is top 10 all time on clay
2011 Wimby - Won
2011 USO - Won
2012 AO - Won
2012 RG - Loss to Greatest of all time on clay
2012 Wimby - Loss to greatest of all time on grass
2012 USO - Finals loss to a top player in Murray
2013 AO - Won
2013 RG - Loss to greatest on clay
2013 Wimby - Finals loss to a top player on grass, far above Zverev
2013 USO - Loss to one of the top 8 on USO
2014 AO - Loss to top player in Wawrinka
2014 RG - Loss to greatest on clay
2014 Wimby - Won
2014 USO - Loss better than Botic
2015 AO - Won
2015 RG - Loss to top better than Zverev player
2015 Wimby - Won
2015 USO - Won
2016 AO - Won
2016 RG - Won
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
#3 seed losing can hardly be the biggest upset of this year in tennis, let alone all sports. It may not even be the biggest upset of the week if #2 serves less than 50% today as he did in his last two matches.
Uh, no. Djokovic's odds are at 1.14 (compared to Alcaraz at 1.01)

The oddsmakers are giving Popyrin a decent shot at winning this match
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
That would be Soderling in 2009.

Insane overreaction.
Exactly. Nadal at the time was 31-0 at the French Open, had won the previous 4 French Opens, had won his previous 32 sets in a row at the French Open going into that Soderling match, and had beaten Soderling 6-1, 6-0 at 2009 Rome a month earlier. At the time, clay was seen as Soderling's weakest surface too, and Soderling's previous match in beating Ferrer as an underdog in the third round was the first time that Soderling was in the fourth round of a major. Nadal in the third round beat Hewitt 6-1, 6-3, 6-1, and looked devastatingly good in that particular match. In addition to winning the previous 4 French Opens, Nadal would go on to win the next 5 French Opens from 2010-2014, making it 9 French Open titles in 10 years. Alcaraz's form since the 2024 Olympic final, by contrast, has been poor.

Alcaraz won the US Open 2 years ago. It doesn't have the same ring to it as Nadal's record at the French Open. Admittedly, Alcaraz losing to Zandschulp in straight sets is still a really big upset, but it's more like Djokovic's loss to Kohlschreiber at the 2009 French Open the day before Nadal lost to Soderling. Nadal's loss overshadowed what had happened to Djokovic.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
No one has proved that 2010 Nadal was better than 2011. The proof would be simple: Nadal had the higher winning percentage in 2010 or 2011, minus Djokovic for both years. People keep saying Nadal reached his peak in 2010, I'd like to see it!

Carlos just needs to have a talk with himself after the first two sets.
Nadal's peak was in 2008, when he won 8 tournaments in 4 months, had his longest match winning streak and deposed Federer as world number 1 after well over 4 years. Nadal also moved better in 2008 than in 2010.
 

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Losing a close match to one of the greatest players ever in a final is "struggling"?

Djokovic lost to a then 38-year-old Federer at the ATP Finals, in a match that cost him the YE #1.
Meaning that Nadal was world number 1 in three different decades ;)
 
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