One of the scariest levels on a Grass Court

This Guy's firepower and movement on this match was just something else.

Roddick did not play half bad.

Also Please do spend 12 minutes watching the video before dismissing it by "past is worse than future" and 2019>2003.

I don't disagree with that viewpoint.Just that when it's applied in an absolute way, the real observable truth gets lost sometimes.



 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Roddick the guy with 2 wins over top10s on grass during all his career.

He is #99 in the Open Era in this stat, tied with 51 other players.
There's little play on grass so wider top 10 rankings often don't reflect grass prowess. That's why Wimbledon has it's own seeding formula.

Grosjean was certainly top 10 on grass in 2003/2004 with back to back SF's and Roddick got him twice in those years, Ancic was definitely top 10 on grass in 2004 with a Wimbledon SF and Roddick beat him twice that year, Hewitt in 2004 was ranked just outside the top 10 at Queens but obviously top 10 on grass and infact top 10 a week later etc...

But keep trying to downplay a guy that one three Queen's titles in a row and went 32-3 in three years on grass (y)
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Pete might have a thing or two to say about that. ;) Seriously though, it's a shame we never got to see both of them at their very best at the same time, although with a ten year age gap I guess it's understandable. It would've definitely been one helluva match!!
Well I said arguably :p Would have been something to see. Think Mac in 1984 (relative to his field) was probably at this level too.
 

Lew II

Legend
There's little play on grass so wider top 10 rankings often don't reflect grass prowess. That's why Wimbledon has it's own seeding formula.

Grosjean was certainly top 10 on grass in 2003/2004 with back to back SF's and Roddick got him twice in those years, Ancic was definitely top 10 on grass in 2004 with a Wimbledon SF and Roddick beat him twice that year, Hewitt in 2004 was ranked just outside the top 10 at Queens but obviously top 10 on grass and infact top 10 a week later etc...

But keep trying to downplay a guy that one three Queen's titles in a row and went 32-3 in three years on grass (y)
The only official ranking is the ATP one.

Do you have a ranking with grass points only? That would be somehting to start with.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
The only official ranking is the ATP one.

Do you have a ranking with grass points only? That would be somehting to start with.
Could work it out but effort with conversions etc...

Win/loss is relatively easy:

Grosjean in 2003: 10-3 (77%)
Grosjean in 2004: 9-2 (82%) loses only to the top two
Ancic in 2004: 10-3 (77%) two losses to Roddick

Even in 2005 Roddick beat Grosjean in the QF of Wimbledon, Grosjean was 6-2 (75%) that year with both losses to Roddick. Looking at the whole 2003-2005 timeframe Grosjean was 25-7 (78%) but five of his losses were to Roddick and Federer.

Don't think I should have to say why Hewitt in Queen's was a good win...

Hell even Coria in 2005 (not a great grass court win) but in terms of ranking he was top 10 at the beginning of the year and at the end but dropped out in the middle, but not a top 10 player?

Compare these stats to top tenners on grass like Cilic;

2015: 7-3 (77%)
2016: 7-3 (77%)
2017: 12-3 (80)

...or finalist Anderson in 2018: 6-2 (75%)

Or a repeated SF'ist and good player in Tsonga:

2011: 10-3 (77%)
2012: 9-3 (75%)

A guy like Berdych with many Wimbledon SF's and a repeat Wimbledon SF'ist and even finalist has only once broken 75% of matches won on grass and that was because he didn't play a warm up in 2010 (6-1 86%), otherwise 2016 5-2 (71%), 6-2 2013 (75%) etc...

The 03-05 guys were easily comparable to these top 10 players despite their ranking in terms of winning matches on grass. I tried to look at people who lost to Big 4 opponents when they were ranked top 10 in late rounds. Could easily pull up more inept grass court players ranked in the top 10 as well.
 

Lew II

Legend
Could work it out but effort with conversions etc...

Win/loss is relatively easy:

Grosjean in 2003: 10-3 (77%)
Grosjean in 2004: 9-2 (82%) loses only to the top two
Ancic in 2004: 10-3 (77%) two losses to Roddick

Even in 2005 Roddick beat Grosjean in the QF of Wimbledon, Grosjean was 6-2 (75%) that year with both losses to Roddick. Looking at the whole 2003-2005 timeframe Grosjean was 25-7 (78%) but five of his losses were to Roddick and Federer.

Don't think I should have to say why Hewitt in Queen's was a good win...

Hell even Coria in 2005 (not a great grass court win) but in terms of ranking he was top 10 at the beginning of the year and at the end but dropped out in the middle, but not a top 10 player?

Compare these stats to top tenners on grass like Cilic;

2015: 7-3 (77%)
2016: 7-3 (77%)
2017: 12-3 (80)

...or finalist Anderson in 2018: 6-2 (75%)

Or a repeated SF'ist and good player in Tsonga:

2011: 10-3 (77%)
2012: 9-3 (75%)

A guy like Berdych with many Wimbledon SF's and a repeat Wimbledon SF'ist and even finalist has only once broken 75% of matches won on grass and that was because he didn't play a warm up in 2010 (6-1 86%), otherwise 2016 5-2 (71%), 6-2 2013 (75%) etc...

The 03-05 guys were easily comparable to these top 10 players despite their ranking in terms of winning matches on grass.
Grass is only one slam and some minor tournaments, so it would be better to use a ranking like the one Wimbledon uses for seeds, rather than one with just the grass points.

For example, I don't think Kubot in 2013 was a grass top10...
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Grass is only one slam and some minor tournaments, so it would be better to use a ranking like the one Wimbledon uses for seeds, rather than one with just the grass points.
These win/loss records often include Queen's which attracts a lot of top players, also the win/loss reflects actual results in those years on grass which is a better measure of form then ranking.
 

Born_to_slice

Hall of Fame
Overrated in terms of quality imo. Novak's level dropped a lot after the first set. High drama but for me it didn't compare to many of the other great grass court matches.
Novak's level dropped a little and Nadal's rose after the first set. I actually thought match was all drama after watching it live, but after watching it later at ease, level is incredible.
Of course, it's different brand of tennis compared to Fed - Roddick.
 
Fed's movement and shotmaking in this match is extraordinary.
Among other points, his half-volley on set point (second set, point starts around 7:08 on the clip) is incredible.
A half-volley groundstroke pretty much, struck with power despite the small margin of error for big shots hit near the net, yet made it perfectly. (I mean that normal half-volleys redirect the ball only without adding extra force to it, that was a kind of semi-1/2volley-semi-forehand, which is a darn rarity indeed.)
 

RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame
A half-volley groundstroke pretty much, struck with power despite the small margin of error for big shots hit near the net, yet made it perfectly. (I mean that normal half-volleys redirect the ball only without adding extra force to it, that was a kind of semi-1/2volley-semi-forehand, which is a darn rarity indeed.)
I've played it back a few times, and that's not a shot you can teach. That's for sure. When McEnroe, one of the best volleyers ever, in the moment yells "Oh no, that's impossible!", that about describes it.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
There's little play on grass so wider top 10 rankings often don't reflect grass prowess. That's why Wimbledon has it's own seeding formula.

Grosjean was certainly top 10 on grass in 2003/2004 with back to back SF's and Roddick got him twice in those years, Ancic was definitely top 10 on grass in 2004 with a Wimbledon SF and Roddick beat him twice that year, Hewitt in 2004 was ranked just outside the top 10 at Queens but obviously top 10 on grass and infact top 10 a week later etc...

But keep trying to downplay a guy that one three Queen's titles in a row and went 32-3 in three years on grass (y)
Roddick, McEnroe and Hewitt are the only 3 players ever to 3-peat at Queen's. McEnroe and Hewitt both pulled off the Queen's-Wimbledon double whilst Roddick went on to make back to back Wimbledon finals after he won Queen's but, unlike Hewitt, kept running into peak Roger. If only he could have faced someone like Nalbandian (Hewitt's 2002 Wimbledon finalist) for a change but he never got that kind of break. I guess some players just have more luck than others.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Roddick and Hewitt are the only 2 players ever to 3-peat at Queen's. Hewitt pulled off the Queen's-Wimbledon double in 2002. Roddick went on to make back to back finals in 2004-5 after he won Queen's but, unlike Hewitt, kept running into peak Roger. If only he could have faced someone like Nalbandian (Hewitt's 2002 Wimbledon finalist) for a change but he never got that kind of break. I guess some players just have more luck than others.
Rusty underperformed at Wimbledon in 00-01, definitely overplayed in 2001. He did run into Fed in 04/05 just Arod did as well. But yeah if Roddick hit his stride on grass one year earlier and Hewitt a bit later Andy would be the one with the Wimbledon. Don't think it's necessarily luck though, Hewitt was very precocious as the youngest ever YE #1 - talent not luck to be good enough to take advantage when the draw opened up at a young age (y) Don't think anyone else on the planet was beating him at Wimbledon in 2002 anyway, far and away the best grass courter that year.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Rusty underperformed at Wimbledon in 00-01, definitely overplayed in 2001. He did run into Fed in 04/05 just Arod did as well. But yeah if Roddick hit his stride on grass one year earlier and Hewitt a bit later Andy would be the one with the Wimbledon. Don't think it's necessarily luck though, Hewitt was very precocious as the youngest ever YE #1 - talent not luck to be good enough to take advantage when the draw opened up at a young age (y) Don't think anyone else on the planet was beating him at Wimbledon in 2002 anyway, far and away the best grass courter that year.
What did Roddick do at 2002 Wimbledon? Shame he and Hewitt didn't peak together on grass. Could have made for some interesting match-ups.

Incidentally, forgot to include McEnroe as the other 3-peater at Queen's (amended my post too late before you replied).
 

Third Serve

Hall of Fame
Please, explain how do you assess level of play when you watch tennis?
FH/BH winners compared with the errors off both sides helps. These stats aren’t available for every match so I mostly fall back on things like 2nd serve and return numbers since those are usually the most neutral stats one can find.

The eye test is also valid and it’s what many people (including myself) use to get first impressions of match quality. It can be slightly inaccurate, but that usually depends on the bias of the viewer. The match analyses posted by Waspsting and others (mostly found in the Former pro player forum are excellent resources for “neutral” eye tests. You should give them a read. Here’s the one by @abmk for this match:

 

NatF

Bionic Poster
What did Roddick do at 2002 Wimbledon? Shame he and Hewitt didn't peak together on grass. Could have made for some interesting match-ups.

Incidentally, forgot to include McEnroe as the other 3-peater at Queen's (amended my post too late before you replied).
3rd round exit to Rusedski for Arod in 2002, he wasn't ready yet. Weird to think he's younger than Fed/Hewitt when he retired years and years earlier.

It's funny watching their 2001 USO match-up, commies are talking about them competing against each other for slams for years to come. Combination of injuries and a certain Swiss conspired against that...
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
3rd round exit to Rusedski for Arod in 2002, he wasn't ready yet. Weird to think he's younger than Fed/Hewitt when he retired years and years earlier.

It's funny watching their 2001 USO match-up, commies are talking about them competing against each other for slams for years to come. Combination of injuries and a certain Swiss conspired against that...
I always recall an advert that featured Andy post Wimbledon (in 2005 I think) just after he lost his 2nd final to Roger. He is asleep on a plane heading home with a smile on his face with the Wimbledon trophy on the seat next to him. Then a stewardess bends forward to speak to him and he wakes up, glances to his right only to see an empty seat. It had all been a dream and he looks into the camera with a poignant shrug. It was typical of A-Rod to do that kind of thing but it seemed so bitter-sweet. Can't recall what the advert was for.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I always recall an advert that featured Andy post Wimbledon (in 2005 I think) just after he lost his 2nd final to Roger. He is asleep on a plane heading home with the Wimbledon trophy on the seat next to him. Then a stewardess bends forward to speak to him and he wakes up, glances to his right only to see an empty seat. It had all been a dream. It was typical of A-Rod to do that kind of thing but it seemed so bitter-sweet. Can't recall what the advert was for.
I remember a similar advert. Books tickets to London, but orders two on the return - on the way back he's got his trophy in seat next to him. Think it was an airline?

Sad times :(
 
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