One piece string job question

Znak

Semi-Pro
Question for any of you. I was wondering how to complete a one piece string job on a 16x20 or 18x20 racquets? It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up — does that mean I always have to do ATW? Otherwise my crosses start at the throat and that's a big no-no right? Although I was reading Babolat racquets it's okay to do so?

Thanks!
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
With Wilson bottom up stringing is allowed but I would not recommend it, I usually prefer top down if possible. Whenever I do an ATW pattern I like to cross over on the bottom on a even numbered string, I never want a short section of frame supporting a transition from cros to main or vice a versa, and I prefer to use a Yonex loop of the short side tie off. If I can’t meet that criteria I usually string the racket 2 piece.

The reason I like to cross over on an even cross is so all my crosses are woven the same except for the bottom cross if it’s odd. For a 16x20 or 18x20 they are my prime candidates for ATW.
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
With Wilson bottom up stringing is allowed but I would not recommend it, I usually prefer top down if possible. Whenever I do an ATW pattern I like to cross over on the bottom on a even numbered string, I never want a short section of frame supporting a transition from cros to main or vice a versa, and I prefer to use a Yonex loop of the short side tie off. If I can’t meet that criteria I usually string the racket 2 piece.
Thanks for the reply Irvin. So when you say you cross over on the bottom on an even in this case, you'd cross over on the 18th? Why the Yonex loop, is it more stable?
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Thanks for the reply Irvin. So when you say you cross over on the bottom on an even in this case, you'd cross over on the 18th? Why the Yonex loop, is it more stable?
On a 20 cross racket I’d cross over on the 20th cross. When using an ATW pattern the string I’m tying off is closer to the center of the racket. If I had a 16 main racket I’d tie of the 6th main. I set my knot tension to 4 lbs and I use it on the 7th and 6th mains on the short side. Some how that gives me a similar tension to what I have on the long side when I compare them with a Stringmeter.
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
On a 20 cross racket I’d cross over on the 20th cross. When using an ATW pattern the string I’m tying off is closer to the center of the racket. If I had a 16 main racket I’d tie of the 6th main. I set my knot tension to 4 lbs and I use it on the 7th and 6th mains on the short side. Some how that gives me a similar tension to what I have on the long side when I compare them with a Stringmeter.
Wow okay thanks for the tip, I'll try this the next time I string and keep you posted. I found stringing the 18x20 tougher than usual just because of how dense it was, I wasn't used to it, and tying those 4 knots were a pain. It could have been because it was also a 16g too
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Wow okay thanks for the tip, I'll try this the next time I string and keep you posted. I found stringing the 18x20 tougher than usual just because of how dense it was, I wasn't used to it, and tying those 4 knots were a pain. It could have been because it was also a 16g too
Are you right handed or left handed? If your right handed keep your short side of the left side of the racket. That way you never have a hard weave on the even crosses because both the previously tensioned cross (even number) and the bottom cross (even numbered is holding the same mains up and down. It is a breeze weaving that way - almost too easy. Then when you weave the odd numbered cross you will be weaving more toward the top of the racket and the previously tensioned cross holds the mains correctly for you too.

EDIT: Also remember to keep the string to be tension next against the previously tensioned string so that string does not try to counter the direct of the mains and crosses negating the benefit of weaving one ahead.
 
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Znak

Semi-Pro
Are you right handed or left handed? If your right handed keep your short side of the left side of the racket. That way you never have a hard weave on the even crosses because both the previously tensioned cross (even number) and the bottom cross (even numbered is holding the same mains up and down. It is a breeze weaving that way - almost too easy. Then when you weave the odd numbered cross you will be weaving more toward the top of the racket and the previously tensioned cross holds the mains correctly for you too.

EDIT: Also remember to keep the string to be tension next against the previously tensioned string so that string does not try to counter the direct of the mains and crosses negating the benefit of weaving one ahead.
Good tip about RH/LH will give that a try! Not sure I follow on your edited remark, do you mean physically touching the crosses?
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
Okay I see! I've been doing something similar where keeping the cross I'm about to tension with some shape in it, but rather in the opposite direction than you do. I might try this way seems like when straightening the cross it might be easier
 
Write me the type of racket you use, and I'll send you back a step-by-step way I would string it. I use a slightly different ATW pattern than Irvin does. Neither are better or worse, just depends on what you get used to.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Okay I see! I've been doing something similar where keeping the cross I'm about to tension with some shape in it, but rather in the opposite direction than you do. I might try this way seems like when straightening the cross it might be easier
Like Steve said some strings or hybrids work different than others. I’ve been using this technique for some time how and like it. When you have the string you’ll Tension next curving toward the throat you’ll be pulling the high strings low and the low strings high. Trying it next time you string a racket on two consequitive crosses one way and the others. You will notice the difference immediately.

Back to Steve’s different string comment. The slippier the string the more it wants to smile as you pull tension. The more friction there is the more the string will frown. Some time the only way you can straighten then is after you tension another string.
 
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Znak

Semi-Pro
Write me the type of racket you use, and I'll send you back a step-by-step way I would string it. I use a slightly different ATW pattern than Irvin does. Neither are better or worse, just depends on what you get used to.
The 18x20 is my friends Wilson BLX six one team. The 16x20 is another friend using Wilson triad 6.0 hammer, but the grommets are too damaged so it'll be more the former I'm curious about. Thanks!
 
18 x 20 where the mains end at the throat (if they ended at the top, you wouldn't need an ATW pattern). I'm going by memory here, so correct me if I have the pattern wrong. The ATW principle is the same. You skip the 8th and 10th holes at top and bottom with mains. Measure 12' for the short side.
1. String the first 7 mains on each side the way you normally would. Your clamps will be at the throat.
2. Thread, but do not tension the 8th main on the short side, and the 8th and 9th main on the long side.
3. With the long side, at the throat, weave the 19th cross (2nd from last), then weave the last cross on the short side with the long string. Do NOT tension yet
4. Tension the 8th main on both sides. Clamps will be at the top.
5. Bring the short string down and weave the 3rd, then 2nd cross at the top. (still no tension). Make sure, double check that the 3rd cross is weaved just like the 19th cross
6. Tension the last main with the long string. Clamp with a flying clamp or a starting clamp.
7. Tension the 3rd cross at the top, then the 2nd, then the top cross and tie off.
8. Tension the 19th cross (here's your ATW), then tension the 9th main on the opposing side.
9. Now string as you normally would, starting at the 4th cross. When you get to the bottom, skip the 19th as it's already there, and tension the last cross and tie off.
The one disadvantage of this pattern is that it gives you a "hard weave" and a "soft weave". Every one I've done this for really likes it.
 

Imago

Hall of Fame
Question for any of you. I was wondering how to complete a one piece string job on a 16x20 or 18x20 racquets? It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up...
If this is the case, 18x20 should not be a problem as the mains will end at the top. With 16x20 you weave the last main on the long side after finishing the crosses.
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
18 x 20 where the mains end at the throat (if they ended at the top, you wouldn't need an ATW pattern). I'm going by memory here, so correct me if I have the pattern wrong. The ATW principle is the same. You skip the 8th and 10th holes at top and bottom with mains. Measure 12' for the short side.
1. String the first 7 mains on each side the way you normally would. Your clamps will be at the throat.
2. Thread, but do not tension the 8th main on the short side, and the 8th and 9th main on the long side.
3. With the long side, at the throat, weave the 19th cross (2nd from last), then weave the last cross on the short side with the long string. Do NOT tension yet
4. Tension the 8th main on both sides. Clamps will be at the top.
5. Bring the short string down and weave the 3rd, then 2nd cross at the top. (still no tension). Make sure, double check that the 3rd cross is weaved just like the 19th cross
6. Tension the last main with the long string. Clamp with a flying clamp or a starting clamp.
7. Tension the 3rd cross at the top, then the 2nd, then the top cross and tie off.
8. Tension the 19th cross (here's your ATW), then tension the 9th main on the opposing side.
9. Now string as you normally would, starting at the 4th cross. When you get to the bottom, skip the 19th as it's already there, and tension the last cross and tie off.
The one disadvantage of this pattern is that it gives you a "hard weave" and a "soft weave". Every one I've done this for really likes it.
I believe this is a typo.
@Steve Huff, didn't you mean to say "then weave the last main on the short side with the long string"?

If this is the case, 18x20 should not be a problem as the mains will end at the top.
You're incorrect. The mains will not end at the top. The mains on the BLX Six.One 95 Team (18x20) end at the throat (hence the need for an ATW pattern if stringing one piece).

@Znak, Steve's pattern above will certainly work (does accomplish the purpose of an ATW [stringing of most crosses top down], but is a bit "busy", will have many hard weaves, and will have a few longish runs of string on the outside of the frame).

I presume that you are using a machine that has fixed swivel clamps. Correct me, if this is not the case.

You may also want to seriously consider two other alternative ATWs, for this particular frame.
Either of them work well on this frame, both will involve far fewer hard weaves, both will have less long runs of string on the outside of the frame and, in general, are less "busy".
Just a note: both will require the use of a starting clamp (or flying clamp, used as a starting clamp), but then again, so does the pattern Steve has recommended.
  1. DireDesire ATW
  2. UKRSA ATW
Also worth noting... since neither of these ATWs incorporate the installation of a bottom cross(es) early on, you won't have to be on your guard, quite as much, to ensure correct weave orientations (in Steve's pattern, because the 19th cross is already installed, you have to be cautious to ensure that the 3rd cross gets the same weave. BTW, the Universal ATW has similar issues).
For either of the above patterns (as well as Steve's recommendation), your top cross will tie-off at 5Head and your bottom cross will tie-off at 9Throat.

Best of luck!
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
I believe this is a typo.
@Steve Huff, didn't you mean to say "then weave the last main on the short side with the long string"?
It's busy reading it but I'm pretty sure it will work. Because Steve is stringing his odd numbered crosses from the long side to the short side he will be doing the same method I do effectively. The difference is I always string the even numbered cross from the long side to the short side.
 

Imago

Hall of Fame
You're incorrect. The mains will not end at the top. The mains on the BLX Six.One 95 Team (18x20) end at the throat (hence the need for an ATW pattern if stringing one piece).
BLX Six One 95 Team mains start at the top, while we are talking of 18 mains starting at the throat.
 
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Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Question for any of you. I was wondering how to complete a one piece string job on a 16x20 or 18x20 racquets? It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up — does that mean I always have to do ATW? Otherwise my crosses start at the throat and that's a big no-no right? Although I was reading Babolat racquets it's okay to do so?

Thanks!
Original post^

BLX Six One 95 Team mains start at the top, while we are talking of 18 mains starting at the throat.
When did the theme of the original post change?
 

jwocky

Rookie
Where is the starting loop for mains on the Wilson BLX Six.One 95 Team 18x20?

That itself will suggest the "correct" answer.

(EDIT: data from KM site)
BLX SIX-ONE TEAM 95 (18x20) mains tie-off 7 top/head if two-piece, so a one-piece is natural with crosses top down.

BLX SIX-ONE 95 (18x20) mains tie-off 6 bottom/throat if two-piece, so a one-piece is natural with crosses bottom up or if insisting on stringing crosses top down use alternatives.
 
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Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Where is the starting loop for mains on the Wilson BLX Six.One 95 Team 18x20?

That itself will suggest the "correct" answer.

BLX SIX-ONE TEAM 95 (18x20) mains tie-off 7 top/head if two-piece, so a one-piece is natural with crosses top down.

BLX SIX-ONE 95 (18x20) mains tie-off 6 bottom/throat if two-piece, so a one-piece is natural with crosses bottom up or if insisting on stringing crosses top down use alternatives.
https://www.amazon.com/Wilson-Six-One-Tennis-Racquet-Pre-Strung/dp/B073X5WMKM Looks like KM is wrong again.
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
Where is the starting loop for mains on the Wilson BLX Six.One 95 Team 18x20?

That itself will suggest the "correct" answer.
The starting loop is at the head (there are 8 holes in the throat).
18 mains, so the mains finish at the throat... as I've already pointed out.
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
Woah I'm a little lost, I might have to reread some of these posts! This is the only photo I took of the racquet prior to me stringing. It's tough to see, but it only had 6 holes in the throat so I started bottom to top:

 
Wes, your wording is probably more clear than mine. #8 is what you said.
The hard weaves are probably what most people don't like about this pattern. I'm used to them, don't mind them. I feel this gives a more symmetrical tension around the frame. Probably doesn't matter much. I'm stubborn.
 

seekay

Semi-Pro
Question for any of you. I was wondering how to complete a one piece string job on a 16x20 or 18x20 racquets? It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up — does that mean I always have to do ATW? Otherwise my crosses start at the throat and that's a big no-no right? Although I was reading Babolat racquets it's okay to do so?
Wilson instructions for one-piece stringing start the crosses wherever the mains end, even if that means you're stringing the crosses from bottom to top.

For Wilson racquets, ATW is completely a matter of personal preference and not in any way required.
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
Wes, your wording is probably more clear than mine. #8 is what you said.
The hard weaves are probably what most people don't like about this pattern. I'm used to them, don't mind them. I feel this gives a more symmetrical tension around the frame. Probably doesn't matter much. I'm stubborn.
Hey @Steve Huff.
You lost me there. I'm a bit confused as to what #8 you are referring to. Post #8? If so, post #8 wasn't mine.
I'm sorry for having trouble following. :oops:
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
Woah I'm a little lost, I might have to reread some of these posts! This is the only photo I took of the racquet prior to me stringing. It's tough to see, but it only had 6 holes in the throat so I started bottom to top:

Good Lord. A picture is worth a thousand words (and could have saved us lots of time and heartache).

Ok... this all got way more convoluted than it really needed to be. What a comedy of errors.

First, my sincere apologies to @Imago, @jwocky, et. al.
Clearly they were right, I was wrong.
The photo now makes it obvious (regarding 6 holes/mains starting at the throat vs. the 8 holes/mains starting at the head).
The frame in the photo is the 2010 BLX Six.One Team 95 (18x20).

Second, I think what started the whole derailment was the very 1st post by @Znak himself.
He stated, "It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up — does that mean I always have to do ATW?"
This is what got myself (and apparently many others!) led completely down the wrong path.

Third, I myself was thrown off even further upon seeing the following image(s).
When I searched for the BLX Six.One Team 95 (18x20), this is what I came across...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wilson-blx-six-one-team-tennis-172973628

For those of you who can see the image(s) shown in that link, you will notice that the photos show the racquet having 8 holes in the throat (and therefore the mains would begin at the head AND, having 18 mains, would have the mains ending at the throat... just as I had asserted all along).

Now, here's the rub... the title and all of the written descriptions in that article refer to the BLX Six.One Team 95 18x20.
However, the photos are actually of the BLX Six.One 95 18x20 (NOT the Team model). So... all this did, was to further perpetuate a falsehood.
This fact was very easy to miss. I only noticed this after going back to carefully scrutinize just how in the Hell I had made such a blunder.

The takeaway:
The 2010 BLX Six.One Team 95 18x20 has mains that start at the throat (6 holes) and the mains will finish at the head (making it a "natural" top down 1pc. job).
No ATW, of any kind would be needed.

Sheesh, what a mess.
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
The takeaway:
The 2010 BLX Six.One Team 95 18x20 has mains that start at the throat (6 holes) and the mains will finish at the head (making it a "natural" top down 1pc. job).
No ATW, of any kind would be needed.
True and what about this model https://www.amazon.com/Wilson-Six-One-Tennis-Racquet-Pre-Strung/dp/B073X5WMKM
That model listed on amazon replaced the 2012 model so that leads me to believe there are 3 models at least. Easy to get confused if you're looking at instructions. With a racket in hand you should be able to easily determine how a racket should be strung.

EDIT: I should point out the racket in the linked picture above does not have BLX displayed on it.
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
Good Lord. A picture is worth a thousand words (and could have saved us lots of time and heartache).

Ok... this all got way more convoluted than it really needed to be. What a comedy of errors.

First, my sincere apologies to @Imago, @jwocky, et. al.
Clearly they were right, I was wrong.
The photo now makes it obvious (regarding 6 holes/mains starting at the throat vs. the 8 holes/mains starting at the head).
The frame in the photo is the 2010 BLX Six.One Team 95 (18x20).

Second, I think what started the whole derailment was the very 1st post by @Znak himself.
He stated, "It works out logically when the racquet starts top down, but both these Wilsons start bottom up — does that mean I always have to do ATW?"
This is what got myself (and apparently many others!) led completely down the wrong path.

Third, I myself was thrown off even further upon seeing the following image(s).
When I searched for the BLX Six.One Team 95 (18x20), this is what I came across...

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/wilson-blx-six-one-team-tennis-172973628

For those of you who can see the image(s) shown in that link, you will notice that the photos show the racquet having 8 holes in the throat (and therefore the mains would begin at the head AND, having 18 mains, would have the mains ending at the throat... just as I had asserted all along).

Now, here's the rub... the title and all of the written descriptions in that article refer to the BLX Six.One Team 95 18x20.
However, the photos are actually of the BLX Six.One 95 18x20 (NOT the Team model). So... all this did, was to further perpetuate a falsehood.
This fact was very easy to miss. I only noticed this after going back to carefully scrutinize just how in the Hell I had made such a blunder.

The takeaway:
The 2010 BLX Six.One Team 95 18x20 has mains that start at the throat (6 holes) and the mains will finish at the head (making it a "natural" top down 1pc. job).
No ATW, of any kind would be needed.

Sheesh, what a mess.
Ach my apologies I am definitely to blame in this one. Either way it's still useful info should I have to do it in a similar racquet which was ultimately the goal in me asking this question. Appreciate the help!
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
Wes, #8 was the number on the instructions I posted for an ATW pattern.
@Steve Huff, my reference/quote was regarding your Step #3 directive, where you said "then weave the last cross on the short side with the long string".
Didn't you mean to say "last main on the short side with the long string"?

Just trying to keep anyone (reading this thread in the future) from getting very confused & befuddled while trying to follow your thorough step by step instructions.
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
So finally got around to doing an ATW, it wasn't so bad after all.

An additional question, I followed YuLitle's Youtube video:
.

When he's doing the crosses he ties of his knot right away. By habit with 2pc jobs I like leaving my starting clamp there till the end. Can I still do that with this method?
 

Wes

Semi-Pro
@Znak,
Did you miss the part, in post #32 above, where I summarized that no ATW pattern, of any sort, is necessary for this racquet (after the mass confusion... we finally determined that this frame has 6 holes in the throat (mains start at throat) and has 18 mains, which means the mains will finish at the head of the racquet).
 

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
So finally got around to doing an ATW, it wasn't so bad after all.

When doing the crosses he ties of his knot right away. By habit with 2pc jobs I like leaving my starting clamp there till the end. Can I still do that with this method?
Yes you can
 

Znak

Semi-Pro
@Znak,
Did you miss the part, in post #32 above, where I summarized that no ATW pattern, of any sort, is necessary for this racquet (after the mass confusion... we finally determined that this frame has 6 holes in the throat (mains start at throat) and has 18 mains, which means the mains will finish at the head of the racquet).
Different racquet ;)
 
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