One thing Nadal has done that Federer and Djokovic will never be able to do

aman92

Hall of Fame
Is to beat at least one of the other two at their peaks in a grand slam final
To clarify
Federer Peak (2003-2010)
Nadal Peak (2007-2014)
Djokovic peak (2009-2016)

Nadal
Beat Peak Federer at AO 2009 final
Beat Peak Federer and Djokovic at RG finals multiple times
Beat Peak Federer at Wimbledon 2008 final
Beat Peak Djokovic at USO 2013 final

Djokovic
Beat Peak Nadal at AO 2012 final
No such victories at RG
Beat peak Nadal at Wimbledon 2011 final
Beat peak Nadal at 2011 USO final


Federer
No such victories at AO and RG
Beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2007 (although quite arguable that was peak Nadal)
No such victories at the USO.

Nadal>Djokovic>>>Federer basis in the above criterion
 
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Forehanderer

Professional
Djokovic was never no 1 when Fed was at his peak, likewise Federer was never no 1 when Djokovic was at his peak

Only Nadal has been no 1 during both Federer and Djokovic's peaks.
Only momentarily. You ignore for his entire career he was no.2 to Federer and Djokovic. No wonder Federer had the weeks no.1 record before Djokovic passed him. It was never under threat from Nadal.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Is to beat at least one of the other two at their peaks in a grand slam final
To clarify
Federer Peak (2004-2010)
Nadal Peak (2008-2014)
Djokovic peak (2010-2016)

Nadal
Beat Peak Federer at AO 2009 final
Beat Peak Federer and Djokovic at RG finals multiple times
Beat Peak Federer at Wimbledon 2008 final
Beat Peak Djokovic at USO 2013 final

Djokovic
Beat Peak Nadal at AO 2012 final
No such victories at RG
Beat peak Nadal at Wimbledon 2011 final
Beat peak Nadal at 2011 USO final


Federer
No such victories at AO and RG
Beat Nadal at Wimbledon 2007 (although quite arguable that was peak Nadal)
No such victories at the USO.

Nadal>Djokovic>>>Federer basis in the above criterion
lol at Fed/Djok being peak in 2010 but Nadal not being peak even in 2007. Also on one of your other points Fed took #1 away from peak Djok and Nadal in 2012 even if he didn't end the year at #1 (y)
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
Only momentarily. You ignore for his entire career he was no.2 to Federer and Djokovic. No wonder Federer had the weeks no.1 record before Djokovic passed him. It was never under threat from Nadal.
Reason for the that is because he had to contend with the peak versions of both Federer and Djokovic during his peak years... Federer and Djokovic benefitted from their respective peaks barely overlapping
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
lol at Fed/Djok being peak in 2010 but Nadal not being peak even in 2007. Also on one of your points Fed took #1 away from peak Djok and Nadal in 2012 even if he didn't end the year at #1 (y)
Okay, I'll modify to add one more year to each one's peaks.. Point still stands
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Okay, ill modify to add one more year to each one's peaks.. Point still stands
On quick sand maybe. Djokovic at the USO in 2008, FO 2011 and Wim 2012 was at least as good as some of those other matches you highlight. Simply luck of the draw that it wasn't in slam finals. Nadal obviously has wins over Fed that Fed simply couldn't replicate over him which is to his credit.
 

aman92

Hall of Fame
On quick sand maybe. Djokovic at the USO in 2008, FO 2011 and Wim 2012 was at least as good as some of those other matches you highlight. Simply luck of the draw that it wasn't in slam finals. Nadal obviously has wins over Fed that Fed simply couldn't replicate over him which is to his credit.
I agree Federer didn't face either of them at the USO at their peak so we can discount that.. Still couldn't replicate victories over Nadal at AO and RG though
 

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
This is a bold claim, considering that Rafa has timidly shirked the possibility of playing PEAKray on grass for the last decade.
 

NAS

Hall of Fame
On quick sand maybe. Djokovic at the USO in 2008, FO 2011 and Wim 2012 was at least as good as some of those other matches you highlight. Simply luck of the draw that it wasn't in slam finals. Nadal obviously has wins over Fed that Fed simply couldn't replicate over him which is to his credit.
Never understood how come Djokovic was always in Fed draw from 2007 to 2011 on every hardcourt slam, apart from 2007 us open
He was in his half in 08,09,10,11,12 Wimbledon too
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Reason for the that is because he had to contend with the peak versions of both Federer and Djokovic during his peak years... Federer and Djokovic benefitted from their respective peaks barely overlapping
Rafa is almost the same age as Novak and younger than Roger. If anything, he should have taken the mantle from Roger around say 2011 when Roger hit 30 and carry it for another 5 years or atleast split the no.1 record with Novak. But it is clear that Novak owned Rafa from 2011 onwards. Its clear from the weeks no.1 record and as someone pointed out his failure to win a single YEC
 

NAS

Hall of Fame
@NatF that is for five staright year 9/10 on Harcourt.
And then five straight Wimbledon.
That is one hell of a probability for 50-50 percent chance
 
T

TheNachoMan

Guest
This is a bold claim, considering that Rafa has timidly shirked the possibility of playing PEAKray on grass for the last decade.
He beat him twice. And we know Andy would’ve folded against Rafa regardless
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Never understood how come Djokovic was always in Fed draw from 2007 to 2011 on every hardcourt slam, apart from 2007 us open
He was in his half in 08,09,10,11,12 Wimbledon too
@NatF that is for five staright year 9/10 on Harcourt.
And then five straight Wimbledon.
That is one hell of a probability for 50-50 percent chance
Yes I remember this at the time, a lot of talk of it being rigged.

I agree Federer didn't face either of them at the USO at their peak so we can discount that.. Still couldn't replicate victories over Nadal at AO and RG though
Sure, Nadal's Wim 2008 and AO 2009 are two of the greatest victories in this era. IMO although I think Fed was not at his peak there his string of major losses to Nadal in that period is probably the biggest blemish on his career for me. The losses to Djokovic in later years matter way way way less to me.
 

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
He beat him twice. And we know Andy would’ve folded against Rafa regardless
He only beat Babyray.

As we know, Nadal in the second week of Wimbledon is a rarity in nature.

The only reason why Nads maintains some semblance of respectability in grass-court match-ups, is because the likes of Rosol, Darcis, and Muller, save him from even greater humiliations further down the line.
 

socallefty

Legend
He used to be pretty good once upon a time. But it seems like he has forgotten how to beat Djokovic and Federer outside of clay for more than 6 years. What happened?
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
Yes I remember this at the time, a lot of talk of it being rigged.



Sure, Nadal's Wim 2008 and AO 2009 are two of the greatest victories in this era. IMO although I think Fed was not at his peak there his string of major losses to Nadal in that period is probably the biggest blemish on his career for me. The losses to Djokovic in later years matter way way way less to me.
I don't know if we can really blame Federer for the 2008 Wimbledon because he had to lose at some point.Think that he lost after winning it 5 times in a row, while Nadal lost to Soderling at the French after winning there "only" 4 times in a row.Naturally, the AO 2009 was a consequence of the mental edge Rafa had right after he dethroned Fed at Wimbledon.It would have been better for Fed to lose prior to the final, just like Nadal did against Soderling.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
There's another thing Nadal has done that Fedovic is unable to do. That is being a perpetual no.2 in his entire career next to Federer first and then Djokovic next
Nadal has always lead the H2H over Federer, even before 2008. And as soon as Nadal peaked in all surfaces in 2008, peak Federer was dominated by Nadal (RG 2008, WB 2008, AO 2009). That's a textbook exmaple of being a #2. And when Djokovic peaked by late 2010, Federer soon became #3 behind Nadovic.

#Thirdwheelover.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
I don't know if we can really blame Federer for the 2008 Wimbledon because he had to lose at some point.Think that he lost after winning it 5 times in a row, while Nadal lost to Soderling at the French after winning there "only" 4 times in a row.Naturally, the AO 2009 was a consequence of the mental edge Rafa had right after he dethroned Fed at Wimbledon.It would have been better for Fed to lose prior to the final, just like Nadal did against Soderling.
Meh, I think peak for peak Fed gets Nadal in both matches but not taking his chances in either match is a bad look and basically amount to a four slam swing in their slam tallies.
 
Djokovic was never no 1 when Fed was at his peak, likewise Federer was never no 1 when Djokovic was at his peak

Only Nadal has been no 1 during both Federer and Djokovic's peaks.
I didn't know Nadal was no.1 in any of the 208 weeks spanning from 2004-2007 but I guess you learn something new every day.
 

ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
Meh, I think peak for peak Fed gets Nadal in both matches but not taking his chances in either match is a bad look and basically amount to a four slam swing in their slam tallies.
Man, let's put this peak or not peak aside because Fed has the higher peak but think about that he had to lose at some point a hc slam final too.He was yet to lose one before the 2009 AO and nobody can win them all.Had there not been Nadal, other player would have eventually beaten him, just like Delpo did at the USO.It's unrealistic to expect Fed to win them all till 2010 or even beyond.Only detractors from rival fanbase think that Nadal won those because he had a higher peak and therefore Fed faced weaker competition before.Think also that Nadal still had to play out of his mind to win, even if he had all the momemtum on his side and mental edge.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Man, let's put this peak or not peak aside because Fed has the higher peak but think about that he had to lose at some point a hc slam final too.He was yet to lose one before the 2009 AO and nobody can win them all.Had there not been Nadal, other player would have eventually beaten him, just like Delpo did at the USO.It's unrealistic to expect Fed to win them all till 2010 or even beyond.Only detractors think that Nadal won those because he had a higher peak and therefore Fed faced weaker competition before.Think also that Nadal still had to play out of his mind to win, even if he had all the momemtum on his side and mental edge.
No one else in the draw for those majors is beating Fed.
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Nadal has always lead the H2H over Federer, even before 2008. And as soon as Nadal peaked in all surfaces in 2008, peak Federer was dominated by Nadal (RG 2008, WB 2008, AO 2009). That's a textbook exmaple of being a #2. And when Djokovic peaked by late 2010, Federer soon became #3 behind Nadovic.

#Thirdwheelover.
Davydenko leads the H2H over Nadal. So Nadal is even lower than Davy
 
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ForehandRF

Hall of Fame
No one else in the draw for those majors is beating Fed.
True, the sad part is that Nadal happened to be across the net and RG beatdown happening a few weeks prior .Fed would have won the 2008 Wimbledon but maybe he would have lost in 2009, you never know, not having the same fire burning after already breaking the slam record would have probably changed things and Roddick could have emerged victorious.
Think that Djokovic lost slams to Murray after his 2011, while Fed lost to a GOAT candidate those 2 matches and that in 5 sets, no less.
 
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NADALalot

Hall of Fame
^Nadal was never supposed to get to #1, because he's been injured so frequently and was not supposed to play beyond 2004.
Nadal missed 2003 French Open = Elbow Injury
Nadal missed 2004 French Open = Broken Foot
Nadal missed 2006 Australian Open = Foot Injury
Nadal missed 2009 Wimbledon (defending champ) = Knee Tendinitis/Parents Separated
Nadal retired QF 2010 Australian Open (defending champ) = Knee Injury
Nadal missed 2012 Olympics (defending champ) = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2012 US Open = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2013 Australian Open = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2014 US Open (defending champ) = Wrist Injury
Nadal retired R3 2016 French Open = Wrist Injury
Nadal retired QF 2018 Australian Open = Hip Injury
Nadal retired SF 2018 US Open (defending champ) = Knee Injury
Nadal missed 2020 US Open (defending champ) = Covid-19 (concerns)
And played through serious injury at 2009 US Open SF (Stomach Tear), 2011 AO QF (Hamstring Tear), 2014 AO Final (Back Spasms)
 
Prime not peak, and what the hell is 2009-10 Djokovic doing there... he played at prime level in some tournaments but his weakness in slams (only low prime level at the USO and not at all in the other three slams) clearly make that time sub-prime overall for him.
 

MadariKatu

Professional
Nadal plays the beautiful tennis.
Wrong! Federer plays the beautiful tennis. Nadal plays the good tennis.
He only beat Babyray.

As we know, Nadal in the second week of Wimbledon is a rarity in nature.

The only reason why Nads maintains some semblance of respectability in grass-court match-ups, is because the likes of Rosol, Darcis, and Muller, save him from even greater humiliations further down the line.
Since 2006, he's been at least to the semis 7 times. He failed to get to the second week 5 times. Yes, he had a dip in level there. But saying it's a rarity, it's a stretch. Also, he's more vulnerable the first week than the second on grass, so saying if he had gotten there it's be a beatdown, might be too much. For sure in 2015-2016, he was bad everywhere.
Kyrgios was a dark horse, and on a given day could've beaten anyone. Müller is a grass specialist, and that day he was serving like his life was on the line. That loss could be compared to Djokovic losing to Querry. On the others, he played bad. But even today, Nadal is one of the best grass players in the world.
 
^Nadal was never supposed to get to #1, because he's been injured so frequently and was not supposed to play beyond 2004.
Nadal missed 2003 French Open = Elbow Injury
Nadal missed 2004 French Open = Broken Foot
Nadal missed 2006 Australian Open = Foot Injury
Nadal missed 2009 Wimbledon (defending champ) = Knee Tendinitis/Parents Separated
Nadal retired QF 2010 Australian Open (defending champ) = Knee Injury
Nadal missed 2012 Olympics (defending champ) = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2012 US Open = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2013 Australian Open = Hoffa's Syndrome
Nadal missed 2014 US Open (defending champ) = Wrist Injury
Nadal retired R3 2016 French Open = Wrist Injury
Nadal retired QF 2018 Australian Open = Hip Injury
Nadal retired SF 2018 US Open (defending champ) = Knee Injury
Nadal missed 2020 US Open (defending champ) = Covid-19 (concerns)
And played through serious injury at 2009 US Open SF (Stomach Tear), 2011 AO QF (Hamstring Tear), 2014 AO Final (Back Spasms)
Given the career trajectories of the likes of Safin, Hewitt, Del Potro etc., I simply cannot take this seriously.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Given the career trajectories of the likes of Safin, Hewitt, Del Potro etc., I simply cannot take this seriously.
Nadal got this diagnosis in 2005, and the bone has never healed since.
So he's won all his slams with a broken foot.

Still, his lowest point seems to have been when doctors discovered a congenital bone problem in the bridge of his left foot soon after a five-set victory over Ivan Ljubicic in Madrid on his toughest indoor surface. Nadal said that joy was soon replaced by "a state of deepest gloom".
"[The] diagnosis had initially been like a shot to the head," Nadal writes. "The bone still hurts me. It remains under control, just, but we can never drop our guard."
 

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Djokovic has defeated both fellow big 3 members in all slams:

AO - peak nadal in 2012 and 2019. Peak federer in 2008, 2011, 2016
RG - prime federer in 2012, Nadal in 2015
Wimbledon - peak nadal in 2011/2018, peak federer 2015/2019, prime federer 2014
USO -prime federer 2010/2011, peak nadal 2011, peak federer 2015.

The BOAT. IDEMO :love:
 

TimHenmanATG

Hall of Fame
Wrong! Federer plays the beautiful tennis. Nadal plays the good tennis.

Since 2006, he's been at least to the semis 7 times. He failed to get to the second week 5 times. Yes, he had a dip in level there. But saying it's a rarity, it's a stretch. Also, he's more vulnerable the first week than the second on grass, so saying if he had gotten there it's be a beatdown, might be too much. For sure in 2015-2016, he was bad everywhere.
Kyrgios was a dark horse, and on a given day could've beaten anyone. Müller is a grass specialist, and that day he was serving like his life was on the line. That loss could be compared to Djokovic losing to Querry. On the others, he played bad. But even today, Nadal is one of the best grass players in the world.
Muller was actually in really great form in 2017, especially on grass, so I don't really like to include him in amongst the other "surprises" which continue to sully Rafael's Wimbledon reputation.
 
Nadal got this diagnosis in 2005, and the bone has never healed since.
So he's won all his slams with a broken foot.

Still, his lowest point seems to have been when doctors discovered a congenital bone problem in the bridge of his left foot soon after a five-set victory over Ivan Ljubicic in Madrid on his toughest indoor surface. Nadal said that joy was soon replaced by "a state of deepest gloom".
"[The] diagnosis had initially been like a shot to the head," Nadal writes. "The bone still hurts me. It remains under control, just, but we can never drop our guard."
Well, now I AM the impress.
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
Since '11, off AO, Djokovic beat Nadal 4 times: '11 Wim & USO, '15 RG and '18 Wim. Off RG, Nadal beat Djokovic only once: '13 USO.

Djokovic is king of AO, and prince of Wimbledon; Nadal in only king of RG!
 
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