Online instructor says slice and high balls are not good friends

[toth]

Tomaz Mezcinger from FeelTennis in his high backhand slice video says high balls and slices are not good friends becouse of the opened racket face ( in his another video he says low balls and slices are good friends becouse the same reason).
Do you agree with Tomaz from FeelTennis in this point?

Thank you for your answer
Toth

 

[Dragy]

If you talk about rallying from the baseline, that's definitely so, as such balls tend to float or land short - poor depth control. And if they land short, unlike low slices, they sit up into perfect contact zone to play for your opponent.

Meanwhile, you still got the "slice lob" option which is decent, unless your opponent is strong enough to take advantage of such "deep sitters". Also, there's a "cut down" version which can be played from short high balls as an approach - this one is good.

Playing high slices from far back reasonably fast requires strong sideways (in-to-out, from behind the head) cuts, or even semi-smash kind of slice - on FH side.

 

[toth]

I would have interesse in high backhand slice from the baseline or even from a few steps in the court.
My goal would be to hit a neutral deep shot.
(From behind the baseline i find it hopless to play a neutral high backhand slice).

 

[Dragy]

I would have interesse in high backhand slice from the baseline or even from a few steps in the court.
My goal would be to hit a neutral deep shot.
(From behind the baseline i find it hopless to play a neutral high backhand slice).

Wait for it to drop into perfect strikezone?

 

[Rosstour]

I played some kids at a UTR tournament last weekend and I found myself hitting lots of slice FHs on the rise to counter their frequent moonballing.

It doesn't quite work the same way on the BH side but hitting drive BHs off the bounce is a lot easier than drive FHs off the bounce.

So honestly my answer depends on which wing you're making contact on

 

[ballmachineguy]

Well, since the slice is a high to low swing, there isn’t much chance to really swing that way at a high ball. Similarly, low balls and topspin are difficult. It is a low to high swing where you can’t really swing low to high because of the ground.

It makes as much sense as asking whether hitting lobs at an indoor court with a 10’ ceiling is a good idea. Some stuff is just common sense.

 

[lim]

If you get a high ball instead of trying to knife it down low with a downward swing path aim higher over the net and send it back deep towards the baseline. Preferably aim back toward your opponent's backhand (or fh/whichever is the weaker wing) and if you do it properly it should get you back to neutral.

 

[nyta2]

 

[toth]

Wait for it to drop into perfect strikezone?

I dont like to step back
I am too defensiv if i step back (as i see pros and other rec players can do it better than me)

 

[toth]

I played some kids at a UTR tournament last weekend and I found myself hitting lots of slice FHs on the rise to counter their frequent moonballing.

It doesn't quite work the same way on the BH side but hitting drive BHs off the bounce is a lot easier than drive FHs off the bounce.

So honestly my answer depends on which wing you're making contact on

I speak about backhand wing.
My experience i have difficoulties to take all balls on the rise.
And i think the backhand slice could help a lot - if works

 

[Dragy]

I dont like to step back
I am too defensiv if i step back (as i see pros and other rec players can do it better than me)

It works well if you recover to a position from which you can get behind the ball and step forward actually to take the ball.

But it works if your movement is overall decent.

 

[Injured Again]

I speak about backhand wing.
My experience i have difficoulties to take all balls on the rise.
And i think the backhand slice could help a lot - if works

I take these kind of balls all the time, on the rise at shoulder height or slightly higher, and at the baseline or slightly further back. It’s an easy shot to hit and usually no one at my level attacks this shot without taking a fair amount of risk. It requires getting into correct position early, with proper spacing and a good understanding of how the ball is going to bounce. In other words, it requires preparation and practice just like any other shot!

There’s a lot more margin for error on this shot so I can hit it pretty firmly without taking a lot of risk. As a recreational player, this is a great alternative rather than trying to aggressively topspin back a shoulder high shot, or backing way up to hit it when it is on the way down. If you hit either of those shots poorly, they sit up and are easier to hit than if I hit the underspin poorly.

EDIT

I found one example of me hitting this shot from a recent video, though it’s partially obscured. Look in this post at the top video, around the 1:24 mark.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...ist-of-tw-posters-videos.615054/post-17822681

@onehandbh hits a high deep topspin backhand to my backhand and I take it on the rise about two feet behind the baseline with underspin. You can see that it has about the same ball speed at my topspin shots, which in this video are about 50 MPH or so. If you hit this shot with placement, I doubt anyone below a high 5.0 would think to aggressively attack it.

 

[toth]

It works well if you recover to a position from which you can get behind the ball and step forward actually to take the ball.

But it works if your movement is overall decent.

For me it does not work well
1.on clay i have to step back much more than on hard court
2.my extrem grips make it difficoult to hit flat
3.i am cross eyed so the unit turn is more difficoult
However my on the rise thbh works decent, just difficoult to all ball taking on the rise

 

[Dragy]

For me it does not work well
1.on clay i have to step back much more than on hard court
2.my extrem grips make it difficoult to hit flat
3.i am cross eyed so the unit turn is more difficoult
However my on the rise thbh works decent, just difficoult to all ball taking on the rise

I'm not saying you should park far back. Just recover to good position from which you can move up to take balls early, but also avoid being caught with high bounce to the BH, unless it's a really strong heavy shot which happens to land really deep.

Just the moment you recognize a ball which may end up as uncomfortably high, move either up to take it on the rise or back to take it on descend.

 

[toth]

I'm not saying you should park far back. Just recover to good position from which you can move up to take balls early, but also avoid being caught with high bounce to the BH, unless it's a really strong heavy shot which happens to land really deep.

Just the moment you recognize a ball which may end up as uncomfortably high, move either up to take it on the rise or back to take it on descend.

If i step back i can only hit moonball or short ball.
Moonball is good against a lot of player but if my opponent good enough he can eat my moonballs with drive volleys and volleys...
I would like to have the slice alternative

 

[Grafil Injection]

How high? Fairly impossible to do an effective slice on an above head-height level ball, but around shoulder height it is quite feasible.

 

[toth]

How high? Fairly impossible to do an effective slice on an above head-height level ball, but around shoulder height it is quite feasible.

About schoulder or a bit above about head hight
Maybe max about ear hight

 

[Dragy]

If i step back i can only hit moonball or short ball.
Moonball is good against a lot of player but if my opponent good enough he can eat my moonballs with drive volleys and volleys...
I would like to have the slice alternative

Then step up and take it on the rise, slice works as well. But I'm yet to meet a rec player who's good taking CC BH moonballs out of the air. Down the middle, or to the FH side - well, maybe.

You can hit a driving slice from farther back, taking it hip height. High slice is a bad alternative, the only reason to do it when you cannot move to have better contact point - either because his shot is too good catching you off-guard, or because you are overall immobile due age, weight or injury, or being lazy bless!

Just imagine, you always take such balls as high slices from the baseline - what if I roll it high and heavy over there and shade into the net? Your response is floating, not dipping into my feet. It is slow for me to intercept. You wait for the bounce, so I have a lot of time to transition. The only thing you can go for seeing me approach will be slice lob - again, not very easy from there. You leave too much openings making this your major option. An emergency/situational shot? Yeah, sure, prepare your racquet high, behind your head, turn sideways, slice outward, cut strong, keep trajectory horizontal rather than arcing. You can cut this sharp and short as well, if your hit it more downward, or float deeper.

 

[toth]

Then step up and take it on the rise, slice works as well. But I'm yet to meet a rec player who's good taking CC BH moonballs out of the air. Down the middle, or to the FH side - well, maybe.

You can hit a driving slice from farther back, taking it hip height. High slice is a bad alternative, the only reason to do it when you cannot move to have better contact point - either because his shot is too good catching you off-guard, or because you are overall immobile due age, weight or injury, or being lazy bless!

Just imagine, you always take such balls as high slices from the baseline - what if I roll it high and heavy over there and shade into the net? Your response is floating, not dipping into my feet. It is slow for me to intercept. You wait for the bounce, so I have a lot of time to transition. The only thing you can go for seeing me approach will be slice lob - again, not very easy from there. You leave too much openings making this your major option. An emergency/situational shot? Yeah, sure, prepare your racquet high, behind your head, turn sideways, slice outward, cut strong, keep trajectory horizontal rather than arcing. You can cut this sharp and short as well, if your hit it more downward, or float deeper.

My bread and butter shot against high incoming ball to my bh is the step in - on the rise thbh.
I would like to have high bh slice alternative if i am late or i am tired (at 60 it will be very tiring i am afraid, now i am just 53 but sometimes the on the rise thbh requires a lot of afford for me).
We speak of course about singli tennis.

 

[Injured Again]

@toth If you step in and don’t hit the ball well, all you have done is to take time away from yourself. Especially at higher levels, opponents will seize that opportunity to rush you since you are now not where you are supposed to be. In my mind, you only step in when you know you will be in good position to hit a ball somewhere difficult for your opponent, whether that is placement wise or time wise.

The difficulty quotient to step into the court to take a high bouncing ball on the rise is at least as much if not more than learning to hit a head high slice from a normal position just behind the baseline. If you don’t hit that ball well, at least you are in a much better position to defend the next shot.

 

[toth]

@toth If you step in and don’t hit the ball well, all you have done is to take time away from yourself. Especially at higher levels, opponents will seize that opportunity to rush you since you are now not where you are supposed to be. In my mind, you only step in when you know you will be in good position to hit a ball somewhere difficult for your opponent, whether that is placement wise or time wise.

The difficulty quotient to step into the court to take a high bouncing ball on the rise is at least as much if not more than learning to hit a head high slice from a normal position just behind the baseline. If you don’t hit that ball well, at least you are in a much better position to defend the next shot.

My on the rise thbh is decent, i have the experience.
But i cant do it always and is tiring.

 

[Injured Again]

My on the rise thbh is decent, i have the experience.
But i cant do it always and is tiring.

That is a problem as you compete. If you get tired and start missing in the second set, it doesn’t matter if you’ve won the first set with it because you will lose the second and third sets if you can’t execute.

If you watch the better age group players, they are not only very economical with how they move around the court, they also understand that a more difficult shot is only worth trying if it gains you some advantage. So when you step into the court to take that ball on the rise, what does that gain you and what do you lose compared to a head high slice? If you gain nothing but also tire yourself out, then consider the high backhand slice as a shot that you just need to learn as you improve and your opponents improve.

This is not to say you should give up on trying to improve. But improving takes repetition and effort that becomes more difficult with age. And wisely spending time improving doesn’t always mean making some shot you can already hit better. It can also mean learning a new shot which is better or more physically economical in some circumstances and gives you an alternative to a shot you can already hit.

 

[Roforot]

Yeah he isnt wrong. I ve seen some people w gimmick shots like hitting a sharp short crosscourt ball. these can be effective but I call it a gimmick because a smart opponent can read it and take advantage. Im lefty so when I hit that shot it goes to a righties FH. With a waist high ball I can hit that sharp cc and dtl.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I think height plays a role, at 6'4" slicing down on a high backhand doesn't result in a bad shot, also being lefty helps with the extra junk on it.