Only 42 and I'm developing neck and lower back pain that's already hampering me from playing.

DavidBart

DavidBart

Rookie
I've been playing pretty regularly for 5 years. I'm coming up on a 4.0 level. I'm in above average shape. Lift weights regularly. Nothing crazy, no power lifts. 6'3" / 198lbs. About a year-and-a-half ago I got some pain in my neck and my arms & hands would go numb at night to the point I'd wake up. Pinched nerves in my neck I was told. This happened after playing matches three or four days in a row which I usually don't do. 90% of the time I'm on the court I'm hitting, but I got on a roll.

What I lack in talent I make up in hustle. I can really get to those impossible balls but I'm paying the price. After the pinched nerve diagnosis I basically took a month off. And started slowly getting back into it. I now make it a point to not play a match more than 2 days a week, sometimes 1, never super intense either. Lately the pain has been coming back some in the lower back and in the upper back/neck which just feels scary for some reason. No numbing arms this time. The more I play the more I feel it.

The kicker here is that I'm playing less and less and with longer breaks yet I'm experiencing more pain. I also started making some good moves... I thought:

-I've seen a chiropractor.
-I just started incorporating core workouts at the gym when I train( 4x a week)for abt 10 mins.
-And I'm doing a 15 min yoga routine, almost daily.

This all for about 2 weeks. Today I got on court after 3 days off and pain is there from start. It's not severe or debilitating yet, but if I dont start correcting this now I know it will limit my ability to enjoy the game more and more.
 
DavidBart said:
I've been playing pretty regularly for 5 years. I'm coming up on a 4.0 level. I'm in above average shape. Lift weights regularly. Nothing crazy, no power lifts. 6'3" / 198lbs. About a year-and-a-half ago I got some pain in my neck and my arms & hands would go numb at night to the point I'd wake up. Pinched nerves in my neck I was told. This happened after playing matches three or four days in a row which I usually don't do. 90% of the time I'm on the court I'm hitting, but I got on a roll.

What I lack in talent I make up in hustle. I can really get to those impossible balls but I'm paying the price. After the pinched nerve diagnosis I basically took a month off. And started slowly getting back into it. I now make it a point to not play a match more than 2 days a week, sometimes 1, never super intense either. Lately the pain has been coming back some in the lower back and in the upper back/neck which just feels scary for some reason. No numbing arms this time. The more I play the more I feel it.

The kicker here is that I'm playing less and less and with longer breaks yet I'm experiencing more pain. I also started making some good moves... I thought:

-I've seen a chiropractor.
-I just started incorporating core workouts at the gym when I train( 4x a week)for abt 10 mins.
-And I'm doing a 15 min yoga routine, almost daily.

This all for about 2 weeks. Today I got on court after 3 days off and pain is there from start. It's not severe or debilitating yet, but if I dont start correcting this now I know it will limit my ability to enjoy the game more and more.
Click to expand...

Lower back pain is very common. Assuming your spine is in alignment [not necessarily a good assumption], it can be aggravated by a weak core and tight hamstrings [the hammies act as shock absorbers and if they are tight, the stress goes right past them into the lower back]. So I think you're doing good things with the core work and yoga.

The following can be a good test of your lower back: lie on your stomach and place your hands like you're going to do a pushup. But instead of lifting your entire body up off of the ground, keep your waist and legs on the ground and just lift your upper body. The wider apart your hands, the easier this will be because you won't have to push yourself up as far to lock your elbows. If it hurts, back off [no pun intended].

Hopefully you'll be able to push all the way. Make sure your waist does not rise up. It helps to have someone push down on your lower back gently as you push up with your arms in order to keep your waist on the ground.

The better shape your back is in and the stronger your core and more flexible your hamstrings, the easier this exercise will be. I had lower back problems and it got so bad that I could hardly lift myself up. As I rehabbed, it got easier and easier.

Also, avoid sitting for extended periods. Get up, take a walk, do a few shadow swings, drink some water, etc.
 
Warm up slow. Hit using legs and core muscles. Swing in a relaxed manner. And also pause now and then to stretch muscles in my back and legs. This routine has served me well and kept injuries at bay. I also avoid hitting too many kickers preferring to use TS/Slice as there is less stress on the back. YMMV.

I do light dumb bell work to keep the muscles toned. Some jogging on a HS track and that's it.
 
@DavidBart similar issue here.
weak core muscles, sitting too long in front of the PC => same result as described by you.
I haven't been able to get fully rid of it but greatly improved with:
=) physio and sport massage during severe pain or strong rigidity
=) foam rolling of hamstrings
=) core training
=) mobility training
=) serious warm up before every training or match
=) magnesium drink or bath
=) flex all 454 maximum strength
=) play with more relaxed long swings. requires more foot work and good reading ball skills though
=) play with a bit more powerful raquet/strings so that you can focus more on technique

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Auto accident or other neck/upper spine trauma? It could even be something that happened more than 2 decades ago.

While a chiropractor might provide some temporary skeletal correction or adjustment, you might a physio/PT to also correct some tissue issues associated with your nerve entrapment. You might have some associated tissue or muscle restrictions that might respond to MFR or ART (Active Release Technique).

Perhaps, @RogueFLIP can provide better feedback on this.
 
As SA alluded to, there can be some unresolved soft tissue restrictions that can be a major factor for some of your symptoms; not all will be solved with the cliche'd "work the core" approach....maybe, maybe not.

Here's some links that may resonate with you about fascia:

https://www.healthandfitnessvitality.com/importance-fascia-athletes/

https://breakingmuscle.com/fitness/the-top-5-ways-fascia-matters-to-athletes

https://www.drnorthrup.com/muscle-fascia/

A good posture, flexibility/mobility and gait analysis might be in order since it sounds like strength isn't the issue. Def sounds like a compression issue.
 
DavidBart said:
Only 42 and I'm developing neck and lower back pain that's already hampering me from playing.
. . . Lift weights regularly. Nothing crazy, no power lifts. 6'3" / 198lbs.
Click to expand...

Men are stupid. You are stupid. The faster you learn that, the better you are. I'm a chess player, I can do many things well, but that's what I am. I come from the Wile E. Coyote lineage, brain not brawn.

DavidBart said:
. . . I'm developing neck pain . . .
Click to expand...

Did you ever exercise, oh you know, your neck?


I invented that 40 years ago, when I was 10 years old, after learning in gym class bicep curl and triceps extensions are 2 different and opposite things. I went home and practically re-invented bodybuilding by moving every joint in every direction and its opposite direction with weights.

to be continued . . .
 
There is a thing called show business. Things done for show. Arnold Schwarzenegger is in show business. But in his book he shows you the real things, the boring things.

What is the first exercise in Arnold's Bodybuilding for Men? (ISBN 978-0-671-25613-5)

#1 neck rolls.

Videos are shortened to abbreviate time. Slow down every routine and you get a feel for a full work out.

#1, warm up the body.
#2, neck rolls!

 
Here's Bill "superfoot" Wallace, champion kickboxer, color commentary for UFC 1.

First exercise

neck roll!

 
DavidBart said:
. . . Lift weights . . .
Click to expand...

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. "Lifting" weights is moving against the direction of gravity. Gravity only moves things in one direction, down. There are an infinite number of directions. That's what body-building is. It branched off away from weight lifting. It's weight lifting in ALL directions.

Take a simple example.

Shoulder press. That's weight "lifting".

Now take the opposite direction, a pull up. That's weight "pulling", the opposite of lifting.

How many weight lifters can "pylon" dance?

We are closest to chimpanzees. It's the pulling (the opposite of lifting) muscles that can defeat a tiger.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...ateboarding-and-climbing.640396/post-13245342
 
LGQ7 said:
There is a thing called show business. Things done for show. Arnold Schwarzenegger is in show business. But in his book he shows you the real things, the boring things.

What is the first exercise in Arnold's Bodybuilding for Men? (ISBN 978-0-671-25613-5)

#1 neck rolls.
Click to expand...

Why is the neck so important?

By the way, Arnold's videos are the best I've ever seen.

 
DavidBart said:
I've been playing pretty regularly for 5 years. I'm coming up on a 4.0 level. I'm in above average shape. Lift weights regularly. Nothing crazy, no power lifts. 6'3" / 198lbs. About a year-and-a-half ago I got some pain in my neck and my arms & hands would go numb at night to the point I'd wake up. Pinched nerves in my neck I was told. This happened after playing matches three or four days in a row which I usually don't do. 90% of the time I'm on the court I'm hitting, but I got on a roll.

What I lack in talent I make up in hustle. I can really get to those impossible balls but I'm paying the price. After the pinched nerve diagnosis I basically took a month off. And started slowly getting back into it. I now make it a point to not play a match more than 2 days a week, sometimes 1, never super intense either. Lately the pain has been coming back some in the lower back and in the upper back/neck which just feels scary for some reason. No numbing arms this time. The more I play the more I feel it.

The kicker here is that I'm playing less and less and with longer breaks yet I'm experiencing more pain. I also started making some good moves... I thought:

-I've seen a chiropractor.
-I just started incorporating core workouts at the gym when I train( 4x a week)for abt 10 mins.
-And I'm doing a 15 min yoga routine, almost daily.

This all for about 2 weeks. Today I got on court after 3 days off and pain is there from start. It's not severe or debilitating yet, but if I dont start correcting this now I know it will limit my ability to enjoy the game more and more.
Click to expand...

Stop playing for 3 months
Never see a chiroQuack
See a PT !!! PT are the real deal
 
Raul_SJ said:
Why is the neck so important?
Click to expand...

We are so far removed from martial arts. The UFC brought it back since the invention of guns. We use words that we have no understanding.

Example:

"I've got a strangle hold on the market."

We don't know what strangle hold is.
 
LGQ7 said:
In wrestling, your opponent controls you by controlling your head. Ever put your brother in a headlock?

In boxing, you neck is what's keeping your head from separating from your body.
Click to expand...

Definitely important in boxing.
Not sure about tennis .
 
Here's a sport that does not neck-glect neck training. This sport is no joke. I'm going to re-invent martial arts using ambidextrous tennis, ballet, and this sport.

 
Last edited:
I've never seen this movie. It's a foreign film, so it's not on Netflix. We all have seen a million Kung Fu movies. Only this guy does it correctly at 4:00.

 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Lower back pain is very common. Assuming your spine is in alignment [not necessarily a good assumption], it can be aggravated by a weak core and tight hamstrings [the hammies act as shock absorbers and if they are tight, the stress goes right past them into the lower back]. So I think you're doing good things with the core work and yoga.

The following can be a good test of your lower back: lie on your stomach and place your hands like you're going to do a pushup. But instead of lifting your entire body up off of the ground, keep your waist and legs on the ground and just lift your upper body. The wider apart your hands, the easier this will be because you won't have to push yourself up as far to lock your elbows. If it hurts, back off [no pun intended].

Hopefully you'll be able to push all the way. Make sure your waist does not rise up. It helps to have someone push down on your lower back gently as you push up with your arms in order to keep your waist on the ground.

The better shape your back is in and the stronger your core and more flexible your hamstrings, the easier this exercise will be. I had lower back problems and it got so bad that I could hardly lift myself up. As I rehabbed, it got easier and easier.

Also, avoid sitting for extended periods. Get up, take a walk, do a few shadow swings, drink some water, etc.
Click to expand...
Fortunately I can easily do that exercise and stay in that position for 60 seconds plus. It's actually one of the "yoga" poses in my repertoire. I say "yoga" cause it's just a bunch of stretches/poses I looked up online. As I'm adding more it's taking me 30 minutes to get through it.. :-) Seems to help, but it doesn't feel like on it's own, it's going to "cure" me.

So hamstrings are that important? To be honest I've neglected my legs at gym. They're big already. I run, play tennis, so figured why dedicate a day to legs.... but I'm realizing it may have been a mistake. I'll do some light squats once a week but that's it.
 
fpsanti said:
@DavidBart similar issue here.
weak core muscles, sitting too long in front of the PC => same result as described by you.
I haven't been able to get fully rid of it but greatly improved with:
=) physio and sport massage during severe pain or strong rigidity
=) foam rolling of hamstrings
=) core training
=) mobility training
=) serious warm up before every training or match
=) magnesium drink or bath
=) flex all 454 maximum strength
=) play with more relaxed long swings. requires more foot work and good reading ball skills though
=) play with a bit more powerful raquet/strings so that you can focus more on technique

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Number one on your list... Just scheduled an appointment at a PT clinic. My insurance won't pay for a chiropractor but they do cover 40 PT sessions per year. I'm heading over there shortly. I'm excited to see what they're going to have me do. They sounded convinced that it'll help me.
 
SystemicAnomaly said:
Auto accident or other neck/upper spine trauma? It could even be something that happened more than 2 decades ago.

While a chiropractor might provide some temporary skeletal correction or adjustment, you might a physio/PT to also correct some tissue issues associated with your nerve entrapment. You might have some associated tissue or muscle restrictions that might respond to MFR or ART (Active Release Technique).

Perhaps, @RogueFLIP can provide better feedback on this.
Click to expand...
No accidents or injuries that I can point to. When I started playing around 37/38 y.o. , on nice days I'd be out there 5+ days a week sometimes 4-5 hrs/day Just hitting, but still. I was younger and aside from exhaustion it didn't bother me.
What started this neck issue was playing several, intense matches 3-4 days in a row. Well intense for me, a light warmup for tennis pros. I started feeling tightness in my neck, but what alarmed me was the arm numbing. Now neck pain is slightly more intense, but no arm numbness...
 
dgold44 said:
Stop playing for 3 months
Never see a chiroQuack
See a PT !!! PT are the real deal
Click to expand...
That's what there PT people said. "CHIROPRACTORS "CRACK YOUR BONES" WE STRENGTHEN THE MUSCLES THAT HOLD YOUR BONES IN THE RIGHT PLACE" something like that.
Cool sales pitch, but....

Are Chiros quacks?
 
GBplayer said:
Assuming self taught yoga and core training?
Click to expand...
Yes, self researched yoga poses/stretches.
Basic core work: Planks, various abs, hanging leg raises, Feet in TRX straps 12" off ground and alternating push-up, leg tucks. back extensions (not really core), just trying out and adding as I go.

Truth be told, I kind of neglected abs too. By some miracle I have a six pack, so I didn't feel I needed to hit the abs that hard. A little ab work around the summer, but nothing crazy or consistent enough :-(
 
DavidBart said:
So hamstrings are that important? To be honest I've neglected my legs at gym. They're big already. I run, play tennis, so figured why dedicate a day to legs.... but I'm realizing it may have been a mistake. I'll do some light squats once a week but that's it.
Click to expand...

Chances are, most people have much better quads than hamstrings. Running and squatting are working the quads more than the hamstrings.

For the hamstrings, I'm thinking stretches [ie runner's stretch] and exercises like glute bridges and hamstring curls. One simple way: sit in a wheeled chair on carpet [not too deep] and "pull" yourself forwards: this works the hamstrings. Those with weak hammies cannot even do this or they cramp up almost immediately.

[What people are good at is pushing themselves backwards, which works the quads.]
 
Regarding neck training. In addition to the yoga/core stuff I've been doing lately, I added one of the above neck exercise with a 5lb plate. (Almost like no weight) 2 sets just to try it out. It seemed to have made the pain worse the next day....

Could be a coincidence, not sure, but I definitely didn't push it.
 
DavidBart said:
That's what there PT people said. "CHIROPRACTORS "CRACK YOUR BONES" WE STRENGTHEN THE MUSCLES THAT HOLD YOUR BONES IN THE RIGHT PLACE" something like that.
Cool sales pitch, but....

Are Chiros quacks?
Click to expand...

I use both, just like I use different tools for different jobs. "If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Chiros can provide immediate relief if something is out of whack but if the root cause is bad posture, that something is just going to get out of whack again so you definitely have to address the root cause as well.

A lot of people get stuck in an "either/or" mentality. I think of it more like an "and" situation.
 
DavidBart said:
That's what there PT people said. "CHIROPRACTORS "CRACK YOUR BONES" WE STRENGTHEN THE MUSCLES THAT HOLD YOUR BONES IN THE RIGHT PLACE" something like that.
Cool sales pitch, but....

Are Chiros quacks?
Click to expand...

They’re total frauds !!
I come from a family of doctors
 
S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I use both, just like I use different tools for different jobs. "If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Chiros can provide immediate relief if something is out of whack but if the root cause is bad posture, that something is just going to get out of whack again so you definitely have to address the root cause as well.

A lot of people get stuck in an "either/or" mentality. I think of it more like an "and" situation.
Click to expand...
From the info I've been gathering that is exactly what I'm hearing. Both therapies have a place/time. My posture is definitely bad. Hoping this experience will help me correct that too.
 
dgold44 said:
See orthopedic dr then PT

A pyrocrack is lower than a used cars salesmen
Click to expand...
The 2 times I've had severe back pain. A single visit to a chiro solved the problem for years.

I'm sure you must have a reason to say what you're saying, but my dad had it worse. He fell on floor and couldn't move cause of pain. Next day he saw a chiro and was back on feet. Second visit and he never went back... seemed to have fixed it. Not 100% I'm sure, and may not have gotten to the root, but night and day difference.
 
DavidBart said:
No accidents or injuries that I can point to. When I started playing around 37/38 y.o. , on nice days I'd be out there 5+ days a week sometimes 4-5 hrs/day Just hitting, but still. I was younger and aside from exhaustion it didn't bother me.
What started this neck issue was playing several, intense matches 3-4 days in a row. Well intense for me, a light warmup for tennis pros. I started feeling tightness in my neck, but what alarmed me was the arm numbing. Now neck pain is slightly more intense, but no arm numbness...
Click to expand...

If no auto accidents or other obvious neck trauma, have you been able to determine the cause of your nerve compression? Congenital?

No chiropractors, for the most part, are not quacks. Don't let the negative experience from a few people sway you. I've had good success with pain relief and management with a good chiro. But a skeletal adjustment might just be a temporary fix if fascia &/or muscle restrictions are not resolved. Hopefully, PT will help with this. See if they are able to incorporate MFR or ART as part of their treatment.

Of all the feedback here, I would look most closely at what RogueFLIP has to say. He is a professional in the field.
 
I just noticed something... I recently adjusted my desk/pc setup. Nothing to do with this pain, totally coincidental. I sit on a regular comfortable chair, the desk is little lower than chest level, the screen is a little below eye level, but still way higher than a normal setup. After spending about an hour here, my neck actually feels better. I'm in a more upright position vs having to have my neck tilted forward/down. I know the stand-up desks are supposed to be great... am I onto something here?
(I know my poor posture is part of this whole problem...)
 
Have you tried swimming as a way to relax muscles and decompress your joints? Tennis is a great game but really stresses/impacts your body, especially with all the running/stopping/jumping around tennis requires you to do. Easy laps in an indoor pool after tennis helps to relieve my back and neck pain but relaxes my body overall.

It sounds like with all the tennis you are playing you are not letting your body recuperate and it does eventually give you signals that something is up. I do PT and Chiro treatments as well when needed and I have a degenerative arthritic cervical spine (neck) and thoracolumbar spine (Lower back).

I think of swimming as active rehab, you still get exercise but you don't add any undue stress to the body. Talk to you Dr. if he/she agrees if this could be helpful.
 
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