Opelka defends Alcaraz

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Chris Fowler raises a legitimate point. Let's not pretend Alcaraz was anywhere close to the breaking point. It was a sudden surrender. Confirmed by FAA who says Alcaraz was moving just fine.

Before the dunderhead Alcatraz apologists chime in, we will put it in simple terms for them:
If Alcaraz had been up a set, he would have soldiered on for another hour.

 

atatu

Legend
No. He stuck up for another player. And, by the way, anyone should have a problem with these people. They are vultures.
Well, there are several instances where Opelka responds to a question by saying "The media is terrible..." then he answers the question. If you ask him directly I think he'd confirm that he has issues with the media, and your own post suggests that it's justified ?
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
My only issue with it is that fans will have paid money to attend and what did they get? A lousy as pair of matches. Of course, if Alcaraz has to withdraw, then he has to do it. But say that match had been one of four that fans had paid to see, then it would not be such a big deal as they would have had a one in four chance of seeing a good match. Instead we get this two matches a day and night session nonsense on AA. They could simply have one long session that runs into the night. But then they wouldn't make the money they are targeting. Who knows.
 

atatu

Legend

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Yes we're not allowed to be disappointed. Participation trophies for every player! Thanks just for showing up Carlos, crowd totally got their money's worth that night!
Surely fans can be disappointed even if it's not the players fault?

To assume an 18 year old is faking injury and retiring in his first Slam QF just because he's losing seems rather asinine to me.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
We have to give Alcaraz the benefit of the doubt that he probably thought he couldn't win because he wasn't fit enough. If it keeps happening then it will, rightly, become an issue.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
Surely fans can be disappointed even if it's not the players fault?

To assume an 18 year old is faking injury and retiring in his first Slam QF just because he's losing seems rather asinine to me.
Who said he's faking? Fowler didn't. Said it's disappointing and hopes it doesn't happen again. Obviously the kid wasn't ready for Bo5.

Opelika taking offense to that is what's asinine.
 

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Who said he's faking? Fowler didn't. Said it's disappointing and hopes it doesn't happen again. Obviously the kid wasn't ready for Bo5.

Opelika taking offense to that is what's asinine.
was being badly outplayed by @felixtennis and looked low on energy but to tap early in major QF? certainly hope it won't be a pattern for 18yo with much talent.
Totally 0 suggestion for easy retirement there.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
To assume an 18 year old is faking injury and retiring in his first Slam QF just because he's losing seems rather asinine to me.
It's asinine to me that Osaka is reduced to a flood of tears when asked an innocuous question like, "did the humidity affect you today?"

If 40 year Federer can be bageled at Wimbledon (while carrying a back injury) and not retire, then 18 year old Carlos could have carried on. Felix's exact words after the match were, "I didn't notice anything wrong with him. His movement was still great, he was serving well, I saw nothing wrong with him." I like Carlos a lot, but was bitterly disappointed he quit. But as Clayqueen said, let's wait and see if this will become a pattern with him. I sure hope not.
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
The haters will be lining up for Alcaraz if this becomes a habit. Let's hope he can accept the consequences of that.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
Fowler will blame the kid because ESPN can’t man up and blame themselves and the suits at USTA who collectively decided to ignore Medvedev’s accomplishments the past two years at Flushing and put an unproven rookie in a prime time slot instead of the known quality of a Finalist/SFist. They gambled on the kid and got burned and now want to shift blame to a guy playing his 12th match in 24 days with the last two going five sets.
 

Devtennis01

G.O.A.T.
Kid will need to work on his Possuming skills.

Needs lessons from Del Potro I think.
There is a wealth of teachers Alcaraz can look to on the tour as he attempts to master the dark arts on his journey through the tennis world. del Potro would make a fine teacher, and teach him an even more useful skill- how to possum and get away with it.
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
The kid didn't have an injury. He didn't tear a ligament or break a bone. There was no limp or anything when he retired. His leg muscles simply couldn't handle the load anymore because at 18 he wasn't in shape enough to handle that many Bo5 matches yet. He was pushed to his limit and he tapped out. It happens.

You hope he comes back stronger and it doesn't happen again. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Fowler said.
 

Curtennis

Semi-Pro
I’ll stand with any of the critics here. Tennis and every professional sport is about the fans. You **** off the fans enough, the money disappears. Sure, one retirement won’t turn off many if any fans from all of tennis, but if retirement after being a little down becomes the norm, this sport will dry right up.
Imagine the Dallas cowboys just stopped coming out at halftime when they’re down a couple touchdowns.
 

ngoster

Rookie
I know it sucks for the fans (and rightfully so), but it's Alcaraz (or any other player, for that matter) that has to make the decision to fight or not. Hopefully, considerations like "How often will I have an opportunity like this in a ________ (eg grand slam)?"
 

yossarian

Professional
The kid didn't have an injury. He didn't tear a ligament or break a bone. There was no limp or anything when he retired. His leg muscles simply couldn't handle the load anymore because at 18 he wasn't in shape enough to handle that many Bo5 matches yet. He was pushed to his limit and he tapped out. It happens.

You hope he comes back stronger and it doesn't happen again. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what Fowler said.
If that’s how you define injury then almost no one in tennis is ever injured
 

MeatTornado

G.O.A.T.
So is a pitcher on the IL for elbow inflammation not considered injured?
What I'm getting at is that he didn't develop an injury in the match. He just wasn't in shape enough. This is a preventable thing that hopefully he'll be ready for in the future.

Like there's nothing Nadal can excerice at the gym to fix his foot for example. There's nothing Federer can work out to prevent back spasms. It's not from a lack of conditioning. But there is something you can do to strengthen your thigh muscles so they can hold up throughout a tournament.
 

yossarian

Professional
There's nothing Federer can work out to prevent back spasms. It's not from a lack of conditioning. But there is something you can do to strengthen your thigh muscles so they can hold up throughout a tournament.
1) this, there is something you can do to reduce the incidence of back spasms

2) lack of conditioning causes injury.
Would you agree that a pulled hamstring is an injury?
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
What I'm getting at is that he didn't develop an injury in the match. He just wasn't in shape enough. This is a preventable thing that hopefully he'll be ready for in the future.

Like there's nothing Nadal can excerice at the gym to fix his foot for example. There's nothing Federer can work out to prevent back spasms. It's not from a lack of conditioning. But there is something you can do to strengthen your thigh muscles so they can hold up throughout a tournament.
I’m sure Ferrero is second guessing his decision to plan a Cinci/W-S/USO schedule for his protégé. As it turned out that became 12 matches in 24 days on HC, It shouldn’t have been a surprise he gave out after that shock immersion to the HC grind. In the winter, between AO qualies in Doha, a two week quarantine break, 3 rounds of s warmup 250 and a 1R win he went out a bit meekly to Ymer 2R to start out a 4-match losing streak through Miami.

The most salient point in this discussion is the fact that there would have been barely a peep made if he had retired in a day session match instead of sending away 23K people and a large TV audience shortchanged. That’s on Fowler’s bosses and USTA suits that made that decision so Fowler has to deflect to keep his bosses happy.
 

Purestriker

Semi-Pro
Chris Fowler raises a legitimate point. Let's not pretend Alcaraz was anywhere close to the breaking point. It was a sudden surrender. Confirmed by FAA who says Alcaraz was moving just fine.

Before the dunderhead Alcatraz apologists chime in, we will put it in simple terms for them:
If Alcaraz had been up a set, he would have soldiered on for another hour.

Does staying in and getting a bagel change the outcome? They not getting match ratings. I appreciate the fans paid a lot of to see a show. But watching a beat down isn't much of a show.
 

Curtennis

Semi-Pro
Does staying in and getting a bagel change the outcome? They not getting match ratings. I appreciate the fans paid a lot of to see a show. But watching a beat down isn't much of a show.
So as a paying fan, when is it okay to just see someone throw in the towel? When Venus Williams, a fan favorite, is slated to play Ash Barty in the first round of a slam, should she just retire before the match even starts? It's gonna be a beat down either way, why should the fans care?

If players clearly don't give a S about the fans experience, the fans will stop spending money.
 

Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
So as a paying fan, when is it okay to just see someone throw in the towel? When Venus Williams, a fan favorite, is slated to play Ash Barty in the first round of a slam, should she just retire before the match even starts? It's gonna be a beat down either way, why should the fans care?

If players clearly don't give a S about the fans experience, the fans will stop spending money.
There are plenty of athletes in other sports who would continue. This is a tennis thing, and a culture thing in the sport. it is like football flailing for fouls. Embarrassing.
 

Slicehand

Semi-Pro
I
Opelka really has an issue with the tennis media apparently.
I Would also have an issue with such comments, calling an injure "surrender" and that he hopes it doesnt happen again... maybe he would have liked him to literally die on court just for him to be enterteined. players put their body on the line and picking on an 18 year old who has given everything to compete at that level makes him look like... well i dont know if i can say that word here
 

Purestriker

Semi-Pro
So as a paying fan, when is it okay to just see someone throw in the towel? When Venus Williams, a fan favorite, is slated to play Ash Barty in the first round of a slam, should she just retire before the match even starts? It's gonna be a beat down either way, why should the fans care?

If players clearly don't give a S about the fans experience, the fans will stop spending money.
So watching him get smoked for another 30 minutes makes that fan experience worth it? At least he tried. I think it would be way worse to announce moments before or earlier in the day that he would have to withdraw.
 

Curtennis

Semi-Pro
So watching him get smoked for another 30 minutes makes that fan experience worth it? At least he tried. I think it would be way worse to announce moments before or earlier in the day that he would have to withdraw.
It absolutely does. If I spent the $1000 to get tickets, get my family to NYC, board us all for the night, etc I'd want my kids to at least get to watch the match even if I understand the way things are going.
Not everyone going to the US Open or live sporting events can read the writing on the wall and they want to see someone go down swinging.
 

Slicehand

Semi-Pro
People think that the aducctor injury just lets you play, at that level of athleticism, an explosive move can make the injury much worse and no point in risking your career to play a match with pain and end up worse, i dont understand why people are so harsh on him, i would be harsh on him if he kept playing, got injured, and i couldnt enjoy his tennis for a long time, now that would really be dumb, also, its not his fault that the tournament doesnt give back the money if something like this happened
 
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Lleytonstation

G.O.A.T.
Look, maybe it is just the culture and sports I grew up watching and playing, but in hockey, NFL, and Rugby, athletes play through pain, serious injuries, and yes even potentially long term injuries to play and win. Especially in the big moments. I see it in football all the time and basketball where they fake fouls, so maybe it is just different culture, but man, it is a shame to see. The stage does not get any bigger for these guys, and maybe the TEAM aspect has something to do with it in other sports. I dont know, but I didnt like it.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
His retirement seemed to blindside everyone - including Johnny Mac - who was praising his heart - who was watching the match (including me).
Yes, it sucks for the fans, but:
a. We're not inside his body
b. Fowler, I think, was wrong in not extending any benefit of the doubt to Alcaraz. "Surrender" was very negative wording.
 

Curtennis

Semi-Pro
Look, maybe it is just the culture and sports I grew up watching and playing, but in hockey, NFL, and Rugby, athletes play through pain, serious injuries, and yes even potentially long term injuries to play and win. Especially in the big moments. I see it in football all the time and basketball where they fake fouls, so maybe it is just different culture, but man, it is a shame to see. The stage does not get any bigger for these guys, and maybe the TEAM aspect has something to do with it in other sports. I dont know, but I didnt like it.
I'm in full agreement and any opposite stance would be using the logic that a young player should retire any time the odds are against them. Live to fight another day, take it easy on the body, you can try again at the next slam, etc.
Yes these players can hurt themselves. If they're too scared to play at the idea that it's possible, they're probably in the wrong line of business. Winning a tennis match has zero extrinsic value in and of itself. It's the fans that make tennis a sport and make the money appear.
 
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