Open Era Win % vs Rival ATGs ........ What does this tell you ?

Good thread, OP. This shows that Lendl had it the toughest by far with 165 matches vs ATG players across all surfaces. He broke in against Connors and Borg, then while declined, played against younger players like Becker, Edberg, Agassi, and Sampras. He always had it tough, which explains why he had whopping 165 matches against ATG players , despite shorter careers back then.

Also, that era had surface specialists as well that weren’t ATG players, yet were very dangerous. Yannick Noah was a tough on clay and Cash was very dangerous on grass.
 
weakera said:
Wouldn't that fact be more relevant if they had played more than 2 times on HC (and both in Australia) since 2016?
Click to expand...
actually (last 10 years):
9 times, 9-0 and 19-0 in sets on HC
1 time, 1-0 on GC
12 times, 5-7 on CC


YearEventSurfaceRNDWinnerResult
2022Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFRafael Nadal62 46 62 764
2021Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic36 63 764 62
2021ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal75 16 63
2020Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal60 62 75
2020ATP Cup
Australia		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 764
2019ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal60 46 61
2019Australian Open
Australia		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 62 63
2018Wimbledon
Great Britain		Outdoor GrassSFNovak Djokovic64 36 769 36 108
2018ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClaySFRafael Nadal764 63
2017ATP Masters 1000 Madrid
Spain		Outdoor ClaySFRafael Nadal62 64
2016ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 764
2016ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardSFNovak Djokovic765 62
2016Doha
Qatar		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic61 62
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardSFNovak Djokovic63 63
2015Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 62
2015Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 63 61
2015ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo
Monaco		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic63 63
2014Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal36 75 62 64
2014ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic46 63 63
2014ATP Masters 1000 Miami
FL, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 63
2013ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
2013Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
 
GoatNo1 said:
actually (last 10 years):
9 times, 9-0 and 19-0 in sets on HC
1 time, 1-0 on GC
12 times, 5-7 on CC


YearEventSurfaceRNDWinnerResult
2022Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFRafael Nadal62 46 62 764
2021Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic36 63 764 62
2021ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal75 16 63
2020Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal60 62 75
2020ATP Cup
Australia		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 764
2019ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal60 46 61
2019Australian Open
Australia		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 62 63
2018Wimbledon
Great Britain		Outdoor GrassSFNovak Djokovic64 36 769 36 108
2018ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClaySFRafael Nadal764 63
2017ATP Masters 1000 Madrid
Spain		Outdoor ClaySFRafael Nadal62 64
2016ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 764
2016ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardSFNovak Djokovic765 62
2016Doha
Qatar		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic61 62
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardSFNovak Djokovic63 63
2015Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 62
2015Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 63 61
2015ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo
Monaco		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic63 63
2014Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal36 75 62 64
2014ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic46 63 63
2014ATP Masters 1000 Miami
FL, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 63
2013ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
2013Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
Click to expand...

Right, so exactly what I said, two HC matches, both in Australia lol since 2016? And many victories over Nadal in 2015-2016 when Nadal was losing to Pouille and Verdasco etc?

I know it sounds nice but I don't get the significance of the number. Thanks for your attempt at explanation (y)
 
weakera said:
Right, so exactly what I said, two HC matches, both in Australia lol since 2016? And many victories over Nadal in 2015-2016 when Nadal was losing to Pouille and Verdasco etc?

I know it sounds nice but I don't get the significance of the number. Thanks for your attempt at explanation (y)
Click to expand...
some fun facts about rafas and noles h2h!

even though it's 9/14 HC tournaments and only 4/14 CC tournaments (out of all big tournaments), which means more than double HC tournaments, rafa and nole have played more matches on CC than on HC!

- nole has more wins vs rafa on CC than rafa vs him on HC!
- nole has better W% vs rafa on CC than rafa vs him on HC!
- nole has wins vs rafa in every big tournament where they have met (never met in shanghai)!
- rafa has never won vs nole in 4 out of 8 big HC tournaments where they have played against each other!
- rafa has never won against nole in 50% of HC GS tournaments (AO), 50% of HC masters tournaments (miami, cinci and paris), 60% of HC master where they played against each other and 50% of HC indoors big tournaments (paris).
- nole has multiple wins vs rafa in all but one big CC tournament (3 out of 4).
- rafa has multiple wins vs nole in only 2 out of 8 HC tournaments where they have met!

TournamentNo1eRafa
Australian Open20
French Open28
Wimbledon21
US Open12
Indian Wells Masters31
Miami Open30
Monte-Carlo Masters22
Italian Open36
German Open / Madrid Open13
Canadian Open11
Cincinnati Masters20
Paris Masters10
ATP Tour Finals32
 
Last edited:
GoatNo1 said:
some fun facts about rafas and noles h2h!

even though it's 9/14 HC tournaments and only 4/14 CC tournaments (out of all big tournaments), which means more than double HC tournaments, rafa and nole have played more matches on CC than on HC!

- nole has more wins vs rafa on CC than rafa vs him on HC!
- nole has better W% vs rafa on CC than rafa vs him on HC!
- nole has wins vs rafa in every big tournament where they have met (never met in shanghai)!
- rafa has never won vs nole in 4 out of 8 big HC tournaments where they have played against each other!
- rafa has never won against nole in 50% of HC GS tournaments (AO), 50% of HC masters tournaments (miami, cinci and paris) and 50% of HC indoors big tournaments (paris).
- nole has multiple wins vs rafa in all but one big CC tournament (3 out of 4).
- rafa has multiple wins vs nole in only 2 out of 8 HC tournaments where they have met!

TournamentMo1eRafa
Australian Open20
French Open28
Wimbledon21
US Open12
Indian Wells Masters31
Miami Open30
Monte-Carlo Masters22
Italian Open36
German Open / Madrid Open13
Canadian Open11
Cincinnati Masters20
Paris Masters10
ATP Tour Finals32
Click to expand...
Is this true ?

This shows only at RG, USOpen Madrid and Rome did the clay GOAT had advantage. Seems like he is powerless pretty much everywhere.
 
I mean I doubt it changes much but remove Alcaraz. He may be a future ATG but let him achieve it before you crowd him. Either that or include every 2+ time slam winner.
 
It shows the potential many ATG players had but didn't turn into success. It doesn't surprize me a bit that Becker, Lendl and also Nadal are that close on top next to Sapmras even though Nadal made the most of it in terms of numbers. Becker and Lendl clearly wasted too many titles.
 
TripleATeam said:
I mean I doubt it changes much but remove Alcaraz. He may be a future ATG but let him achieve it before you crowd him. Either that or include every 2+ time slam winner.
Click to expand...

Every 2+ Slam winner cannot be included because that would dilute everything. You would have to include Rafter, Hewitt, Burguera, Kuerten, Wawrinka, Kafelnikov. On the other hand Roddick and Medvedev have 5 GS finals while Bruguera, Kafelnikov, Kuerten all have 3 each while Patrick Rafter and Safin have 4, how do we draw the line on which 2+ slam winner deserves to be there ? So the cut off has to be kept at 6 Slams. Perhaps Alcaraz can be removed, I included him just for fun since his numbers don't affect the outcome in anyway.
 
nachiket nolefam said:
This is pretty subjective thread because there are boarderline atg like courier and Murray. They muddy up everything.
Click to expand...

Nothing subjective
Numbers are numbers, these are hardcore facts. Even if we include Murray & Courier it won't change the numbers much.
Nadal would still be ahead of Fedovic in H2H % and he indeed has won more matches, so nothing subjective.
 
Razer said:
Nothing subjective
Numbers are numbers, these are hardcore facts. Even if we include Murray & Courier it won't change the numbers much.
Nadal would still be ahead of Fedovic in H2H % and he indeed has won more matches, so nothing subjective.
Click to expand...
Nadal has heavy clay skew vs Federer. If you add more players you can have real numbers. Federer H2H sucked on clay. 14-2 or whatever it was is really whitewash anyway you look at it..
 
nachiket nolefam said:
Nadal has heavy clay skew vs Federer. If you add more players you can have real numbers. Federer H2H sucked on clay. 14-2 or whatever it was is really whitewash anyway you look at it..
Click to expand...
Sampras-Bruguera 1993 said:
Sampras is a beast and rises to the occasion . Thats what it tells us.
Click to expand...

Courier and Murray included.

Sampras - 66 - 36 .... win% 64.7%
Nadal - 74-54 ... win% 57.81%
Djokovic - 84-65 .... win% 56.37%
Federer - 62-65 .... win% 48.81%

Sampras becomes even stronger ... approaches 65% @NonP @BorgTheGOAT

Nadal and Djoker approach 60% .... Federer approaches 50% ....

Courier will lower Agassi's % since Agassi has a losing h2h ... It will increase Becker's % more since he has 6-1 h2h..... now becker has 59.84%
 
Razer said:
Courier and Murray included.

Sampras - 66 - 36 .... win% 64.7%
Nadal - 74-54 ... win% 57.81%
Djokovic - 84-65 .... win% 56.37%
Federer - 62-65 .... win% 48.81%

Sampras becomes even stronger ... approaches 65% @NonP @BorgTheGOAT

Nadal and Djoker approach 60% .... Federer approaches 50% ....
Courier will lower Agassi's % since Agassi has a losing h2h ... It will increase Becker's % more since he has 6-1 h2h..... now becker has 59.84%
Click to expand...
Yea makes sense as Pete owned Courier 16-4, same as Becker. While the stat is of course not flawless it clearly shows how well Becker did against the big shots. I mean compared to Edberg and Mats who played alongside him and are loomed together with him they fall considerably behind. Too bad Boris couldn’t always beat the players he was supposed to beat with the required consistency.
 
Razer said:
Every 2+ Slam winner cannot be included because that would dilute everything. You would have to include Rafter, Hewitt, Burguera, Kuerten, Wawrinka, Kafelnikov. On the other hand Roddick and Medvedev have 5 GS finals while Bruguera, Kafelnikov, Kuerten all have 3 each while Patrick Rafter and Safin have 4, how do we draw the line on which 2+ slam winner deserves to be there ? So the cut off has to be kept at 6 Slams. Perhaps Alcaraz can be removed, I included him just for fun since his numbers don't affect the outcome in anyway.
Click to expand...
Precisely. Then remove Alcaraz. My position here isn't out of bias, I realize his effect is minimal. But if we just include people we want then we could include anyone in those statistics.
 
alexio said:
edberg+becker combined vs pete at slams.. 0-5, never played a five-setter..:D
lets take 2 matches from edberg from ao and uso + two matches from becker at wimby.. speaking about games lost/won vs pete.. 85-62=72.9%..
and now taking 4 matches from sir andy vs djoko at slams (3 ao + 1 uso, let alone not including uso12 five-setter + wimby13, for example).. 98-71=72.45%.. looks like sir andy sitting in the same tier with those two guys:D
Click to expand...

Edberg won both the slam matches he played against Sampras (and three of the four he played against Becker).
 
TripleATeam said:
Precisely. Then remove Alcaraz. My position here isn't out of bias, I realize his effect is minimal. But if we just include people we want then we could include anyone in those statistics.
Click to expand...

Modified the list

- Removed Alcaraz.
- Included Courier, Vilas, Newcombe, Rosewall, Laver & Sir Andy Murray

New Cut Off for Rivals is -> 6+ Grand Slam Finals Played in the Open Era

@BorgTheGOAT @nachiket nolefam @NonP @Holmes - Borg has got into the list since he crossed 80 matches now, but his % is still inflated IMO, he retired at 26, had he played at least into 30s he would have got plenty of Ls, few wins too. 100+ wins for Lendl @Pheasant, looks like he played a lot of matches.
 
Last edited:
Razer said:
Modified the list

- Removed Alcaraz.
- Included Courier, Vilas, Newcombe, Rosewall, Laver & Sir Andy Murray

New Cut Off for Rivals is -> 6+ Grand Slam Finals Played in the Open Era

@BorgTheGOAT @nachiket nolefam @NonP @Holmes - Borg has got into the list since he crossed 80 matches now, but his % is still inflated IMO, he retired at 26, had he played at least into 30s he would have got plenty of Ls, few wins too. 100+ wins for Lendl @Pheasant, looks like he played a lot of matches.
Click to expand...
The assumption that Borg’s % goes down had he played longer is not unreasonable but he still had some peak years so not sure how much it would affect him in the end.

He dominated Vilas and Connors at the point of his retirement and since both are older than him that likely wouldn’t have changed. I also think he would still have won more often than not against Mats until at least 84.

As for Mac: I know you are one of those guys who strongly believe in the myth that Borg ran away because of him, but Borg still beat him in unofficial matches in 1982 and 83 and they never played on clay. I do think that had Borg continued playing, their even H2H would more or less have stayed intact. As for Lendl: yea he would eventually gotten Borg I guess, but in 81 Borg was still ahead, so I think he could have saved a positive H2H depending on how often they played in later years. Becker’s power player would have been too much for an older Borg I guess but I don’t think they would have played often as Becker was still a little inconsistent. All in all, if we assume Borg plays a normal career (let’s say until 30) I am not sure whether his % drops dramatically. He will score multiple wins against Connors, Vilas, Mats, will hold his own against Mac, beat Lendl at the beginning before conceding some losses and eventually maybe lose to Becker a couple of times before retiring.

We also have to keep in mind, that peaking very early also comes with some disadvantages. Borg wouldn’t have a negative H2H against Newc for a start if he hadn’t played him at such an early age.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
The assumption that Borg’s % goes down had he played longer is not unreasonable but he still had some peak years so not sure how much it would affect him in the end.

He dominated Vilas and Connors at the point of his retirement and since both are older than him that likely wouldn’t have changed. I also think he would still have won more often than not against Mats until at least 84.

As for Mac: I know you are one of those guys who strongly believe in the myth that Borg ran away because of him, but Borg still beat him in unofficial matches in 1982 and 83 and they never played on clay. I do think that had Borg continued playing, their even H2H would more or less have stayed intact. As for Lendl: yea he would eventually gotten Borg I guess, but in 81 Borg was still ahead, so I think he could have saved a positive H2H depending on how often they played in later years. Becker’s power player would have been too much for an older Borg I guess but I don’t think they would have played often as Becker was still a little inconsistent. All in all, if we assume Borg plays a normal career (let’s say until 30) I am not sure whether his % drops dramatically. He will score multiple wins against Connors, Vilas, Mats, will hold his own against Mac, beat Lendl at the beginning before conceding some losses and eventually maybe lose to Becker a couple of times before retiring.

We also have to keep in mind, that peaking very early also comes with some disadvantages. Borg wouldn’t have a negative H2H against Newc for a start if he hadn’t played him at such an early age.
Click to expand...
He should have take a year break and then returned if he was so burned out. By retiring at 25+ he ruined his legacy in the long run. Future generations are not gonna give him benefit of the doubt, everyone will rightfully assume that he was reluctant to fight youngsters. Had he added 3-4 slams more after 1982 then he would have looked much better in the GOAT debate even today. Plus not playing the Aus open also hurt all the 70s & 80s greats in the long run. Too many average players seem to have won that slam.....

TearTheRoofOff said:
That Big 3 and especially 2 had unfortunately few, even including Andy freaking Murray.
Click to expand...

Yeah and no diversity as well, they all played the same type of tennis.
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
One could be generous and include Wawrinka, making three slams the cut-off. It would boost the % of all three.
Click to expand...

If Wawrinka is added then Safin and Roddick also should be there along with Hewitt.
Federer's % might shoot to the top ? Then you will have to include other 1-2 slams winners too from other era and the whole exercise becomes more confusing.
 
Razer said:
He should have take a year break and then returned if he was so burned out. By retiring at 25 he ruined his legacy in the long run. Future generations are not gonna give him benefit of the doubt, everyone will rightfully assume that he was reluctant to fight youngsters. Had he added 3-4 slams more after 1982 then he would have looked much better in the GOAT debate even today. Plus not playing the Aus open also hurt all the 70s & 80s greats in the long run. Too many average players seem to have won that slam.....
Click to expand...
The problem was that he was demanded to play qualies which was a ridiculous idea but wouldn’t have changed had he taken a year off (imagine that would have happened to one of the big three). Sure one can say he could have achieved more (also if he had played the AO) but his legacy is quite intact. He was the first big star and out tennis on another level popularity wise. His 3 channel slams on polarised conditions and his 5 consecutive Wimbledons alone cement his legacy. One has to understand that nobody cared about the AO back then so we cannot compare slam numbers of players from the 70s/80s at face value with players from after Sampras.
 
Razer said:
If Wawrinka is added then Safin and Roddick also should be there along with Hewitt.
Federer's % might shoot to the top ? Then you will have to include other 1-2 slams winners too from other era and the whole exercise becomes more confusing.
Click to expand...
Yea I said one “could” not that it makes sense. Imho even Murray has no business being there, Courier should be the cut-off. But since the big three otherwise are punished for being so dominant that no other ATGs evolved I guess it is fair game. Anywho the interesting question is: is Stan closer to Murray than he is to Safin, Hewitt, Roddick?
 
weakera said:
...and then proceeded to lost 6 of his next 7 matches to Nadal


lol ;)
Click to expand...
...and then Rafa proceeded to lost 11 of his next 12 matches to No1e


lol ;)

2016ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 764
2016ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardSFNovak Djokovic765 62
2016Doha
Qatar		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic61 62
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardSFNovak Djokovic63 63
2015Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 62
2015Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 63 61
2015ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo
Monaco		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic63 63
2014Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal36 75 62 64
2014ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic46 63 63
2014ATP Masters 1000 Miami
FL, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 63
2013ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
2013Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
 
GoatNo1 said:
...and then Rafa proceeded to lost 11 of his next 12 matches to No1e


lol ;)

2016ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 764
2016ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells
CA, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardSFNovak Djokovic765 62
2016Doha
Qatar		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic61 62
2015ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardSFNovak Djokovic63 63
2015Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic62 62
2015Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayQFNovak Djokovic75 63 61
2015ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo
Monaco		Outdoor ClaySFNovak Djokovic63 63
2014Roland Garros
France		Outdoor ClayFRafael Nadal36 75 62 64
2014ATP Masters 1000 Rome
Italy		Outdoor ClayFNovak Djokovic46 63 63
2014ATP Masters 1000 Miami
FL, U.S.A.		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 63
2013ATP Finals
Great Britain		Indoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
2013Beijing
China		Outdoor HardFNovak Djokovic63 64
Click to expand...

Yeah and lol? Are wins scored over Nadal from 2015-2016 when he was losing to the Pouille's of the world supposed to be impressive? I already know that Djokovic only leads the h2h because he fattened up during that period ;)
 
weakera said:
Yeah and lol? Are wins scored over Nadal from 2015-2016 when he was losing to the Pouille's of the world supposed to be impressive? I already know that Djokovic only leads the h2h because he fattened up during that period ;)
Click to expand...
post USO13 upp to 2015: 4-1 no1e

2015-2016: 7-0 no1e

post USO13 (last 10 years):
all h2h: 15-7 no1e
HC h2h: 9-0 (19-0 in sets) nole
CC: 7-5 rafa
GC: 1-0 nole
 
BorgTheGOAT said:
Won’t reply to that regurgitated myth that he ran away, we have gone over this multiple times already and @Martin J has given the right answer to that in one of the threads.
As for the cut-off, the 50 matches came from you, of course no matter how we slice it those stats will have flaws, fact is with the cut-off 50 matches Borg has the best winning percentage. My main point was that you have to include guys like Laver and Newcombe as ATG especially when there is Alcaraz in there.

lol I was waiting for you to mention that stupid race. First of all, Gretzky is younger than Borg and Pele was said to run 11 sec something in his prime so not a good indicator (whatever such a stupid race has to do with tennis anyways).
Click to expand...
What I can't understand regarding this myth is why would some people assume that a player like Borg, who ruled the tennis word for years, suddenly turned into a defeatist who couldn't handle a newcomer, so instead of working on weaknesses which would help him to overcome a new challenge, he rather gave up on "first" big obstacle and withdraw.

Not to mention that majority of their matches were played on surfaces that reward Mac's game more, and still Borg was 4-2 vs Mac in 1979 and 3-1 in 1980 (counting only sanctioned tournaments for simplicity). Mac got better of him in 1981 (3-0), but such thing happens in tennis, it wasn't the end or the world.
 
It’s interesting to note how Djokovic and Nadal only have themselves, Fed and Muzza to contend with, whereas most of all the other ATGs have a whole bunch of other ATGs as peers.

Connors = a whopping 13 other ATGs!
 
The_Order said:
Look at the desperate Nadal haters... "oh but clay... but clay"

Fail to realise that clay is one of the main surfaces...

AO09: def #2 Federer
RG12: def #1 Djokovic
WIM08: def #1 Federer
US13: def #1 Djokovic

Djok nowhere near wins against opponents of that level at the 4 majors.
Click to expand...
Big3 vs Top10
Nole: 254-110 (70%)
Fed: 224-123 (65%)
Rafa: 186-102 (65%)
 
The Sinner said:
It’s interesting to note how Djokovic and Nadal only have themselves, Fed and Muzza to contend with, whereas most of all the other ATGs have a whole bunch of other ATGs as peers.

Connors = a whopping 13 other ATGs!
Click to expand...

OP cherry picking numbers, and you are lost?
 
Neptune said:
Yep, Rafa's 186 wins include those "top10"
Click to expand...

Yeah they do, but overall, his very best slam wins were against tougher level opponents than Djok.

Like I said:

AO09: def #2 Federer
RG12: def #1 Djokovic
WIM08: def #1 Federer
US13: def #1 Djokovic

He won every slam against the other big 3 when they were in their prime and playing some of their best tennis...
 
The_Order said:
Yeah they do, but overall, his very best slam wins were against tougher level opponents than Djok.

Like I said:

AO09: def #2 Federer
RG12: def #1 Djokovic
WIM08: def #1 Federer
US13: def #1 Djokovic

He won every slam against the other big 3 when they were in their prime and playing some of their best tennis...
Click to expand...

cherry picking a few matches, making claim base on your feeling and call it a career?
 
Neptune said:
cherry picking a few matches, making claim base on your feeling and call it a career?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's cherry picking lmfao...

At least I'm not making a dumb statement by making those wins look equivalent to beating Tsitsipas and Ruud... they're all top 10 wins yeah? :-D
 
The fountain of youth, Sampras was younger than all his rivals. Sampras was listed under Federer, but Federer was unlisted under Sampras.

Courier shouldn't be there, the whipping boy of all. Wawrinka should be there.
 
SonnyT said:
The fountain of youth, Sampras was younger than all his rivals. Sampras was listed under Federer, but Federer was unlisted under Sampras.

Courier shouldn't be there, the whipping boy of all. Wawrinka should be there.
Click to expand...

Sampras and Federer are counted for each other.

If Sampras benefitted from being younger then what about your boy Djokovic who is also the youngest of all ATGs in his career?

So courier should not be there and Wawrinka should be there? I dont think so.... Courier has won 4 slams while Wawrinka has not, the criteria is 6GS Finals, Wawrinka doesnt make the cut.
 
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