RS
Bionic Poster
Fed RG 05-07. How many players have 3 wins in a row in a late stages of a slam like that without needing a 5th setter.
Open Era Win % vs Rival ATGs ........ What does this tell you ?
- Thread starter Razer
- Start date
Nadal is just one younger, plus the fact that he matured at the youngest age.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Weeks at ATP No. 1
Nole 400+
Fed 310
Rafa 209
Everyone can see who is the 3rd wheel in BIG3
Only to people like you who fap over numbers...
GoatNo1
Legend
it id much easier to win vs no1 if you have spenderad a half of time on top spot but:
AO08: def #1 fed
RG23: def #1 raz
W11/18: def #1 rafa/rafa
USO11/15: def #2 rafa/fed
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah.. his best wins are against much worse versions of Nadal and Federer... then there's Alcrampaz lmfao thanks for proving my point. You've done well.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, you seem to be pretty mad that you lost. Sorry about that.
GoatNo1
Legend
no, not his best but his wins vs highest ranked opponents.
you see
most AO titles has nole and rafa has no wins vs him there
second most AO titles has fed and nole has 4 wins vs him
most RG titles has rafa and nole has 2 wins vs him
second most titles has borg and 3rd is a bunch of players and nole is one among them. rafa has 8th wins vs him
most W wins has fed and nole has 3 wins vs him there, rafa has one
most USO wins has fed and nole has 3 wins vs him there, rafa never met him
nole has wins in all slams, WTF and masters vs rafa there they have met each other (never met in shanghai). rafa never won vs nole in AO, miami, cinci and paris!!!!
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Nah, they were his best wins and they were against the other big 3 while at their best...
Djok never did that. His resume only took off after he turned 28 and he capitalised on the worst gen of players particularly post covid.
messiahrobins
G.O.A.T.
Great thread as its interesting to see the patterns of how matchups bothered players. Agassi for instance clearly struggled against other power baseliners. Connors for all his consistency struggled against other ATGs.
It does confirm to me Sampras and Borg were right up there with the Big 3 really...i think Alcaraz has to be up there already as well.
It does confirm to me Sampras and Borg were right up there with the Big 3 really...i think Alcaraz has to be up there already as well.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Wawrinka is not an ATG, even Murray is not but Murray is put in the list just for comparisons sake.
xFedal
Legend
Where is the greatest Carlos Alcaraz?
Razer
G.O.A.T.
@junkieballer - Wins over ATG ? This is the thread you are looking for Nachiket.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
The Stats in OP need to be updated now with Sinner and Alcaraz stats for Novak I think @BorgTheGOAT ...
Should I remove Murray from the stats? I think I have ruined my own thread by counting Murray in ATG stats
What do you say ?
Should I remove Murray from the stats? I think I have ruined my own thread by counting Murray in ATG stats
What do you say ?
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
True Murray should be out. And also Courier tbh if we strictly follow ATGs. Raz should be in I guess, Sinner not yet but let’s wait one more year.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Yup...will make the necessary changes today.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
I think Courier should remain, if Vilas/Newcombe are counted for Borg then Courier for Sampras/Agassi/Becker is fair. Winning 4-5 slams in a non homogenous conditions era where people did not win much in 30s cannot be compared with slam centric eras with lot of benefits to top pros. Murray played in the modern era and still has only 3 slams.
Main reason why I gotta remove Murray is because we have not included Hewitt/Safin/Stan in this, if Andy Murray is here then they too should be. We cannot do that...
Main reason why I gotta remove Murray is because we have not included Hewitt/Safin/Stan in this, if Andy Murray is here then they too should be. We cannot do that...
junkieballer
Legend
Tier 1: Rosewall, Laver, Borg, Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic
Tier 2: Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Agassi, Alcaraz, Sinner
Most wins over tier 1 players: Djokovic 57
Most wins over tier 1-2 players: Lendl 93
Lendl is underrated, with a couple more of Slams he would have been one of the tier 1 players, he was the best in the '80s but wasted too many Slam finals.
Tier 2: Connors, McEnroe, Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Agassi, Alcaraz, Sinner
Most wins over tier 1 players: Djokovic 57
Most wins over tier 1-2 players: Lendl 93
Lendl is underrated, with a couple more of Slams he would have been one of the tier 1 players, he was the best in the '80s but wasted too many Slam finals.
junkieballer
Legend
Mentioning Hewitt and Safin in a discussion about ATGs LOL
junkieballer
Legend
.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
If Murray can be then so can Hewitt/Safin.
junkieballer
Legend
Murray was the best player outside ATGs in 14-17 Slams, Hewitt in 3-5 Slams, Safin in 3-4 Slams:
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/best-players-outside-atgs-since-2000.793608/
Murray is superior or close to ATGs in 90% of stats, Hewitt and Safin are not.
For example, most weeks in the top5:
7th of all times Becker 476
8) Edberg 434
9) McEnroe 430
10) Murray 429
11) Borg 393
12) Vilas 358
13) Wilander 323
...
20) Hewitt 184
...
24) Safin 141
BorgTheGOAT
G.O.A.T.
I think on today’s homogenised era it should be 8.
Razer
G.O.A.T.
Yup it should be 8-10, somewhere in that range.
but even then Alcaraz has played very less vs these guys, I dont think it makes much of a difference
I removed Murray from the earlier calculation. I was deliberately not removing it until now because doing so would drop Federer's percentage slightly below Agassi, lol ... but I did it anyway, no point rating performance vs Murray as a grading parameter in the OP.
Plus he didn't meet alcaraz and Sinner several times after he was way past his peak and they were close to theirs.
LMAO he beat Roger and Rafa plenty of times when they were at their peak.
All matches count, whatever the surface. Clay has been a major court surface long before hard courts. It seems to me that Becker's high % has a lot to do with his domination of Edberg. Otherwise, his % would not be as impressive.
I agree, Becker's stats vs old Mac and Connors should not count. At their peaks, they would have done much better vs Becker
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