oserver

Professional
This serve needs more spin, so someone spins me around, lol, to let the followthrough be free and unconstrained.
I said two years ago that it may take 10 or more years to open the serve to use open stance, and later also added open grip to it. Seeing more 4.0 and 4.5 gals and guys use open stance to serve, and seeing Venus Williams repeatedly abandoning the closed stance serve dogma, I'm less pessimistically now.
For people who like amusement and entertainment, you definitely need some ammunition from me, lol. Let's spin it (a 360 degree spin is provided on the second serve)!

More detailed serve sequences are provided at - http://www.tennis-points.com/photos.html

 

oserver

Professional
Keep it up, one day, in the distant future, you might top 60 mph on your serves.

That's not the comment I'm still waiting. I had bee getting lots of labeling like "pancake server", "waiter's tray serve" in the old days; anyone like to repeat that? A lot of people still think Openness is only good for ground strokes; it will never be good for serves. Just want to say and show "not quite so".
 
That's not the comment I'm still waiting. I had bee getting lots of labeling like "pancake server", "waiter's tray serve" in the old days; anyone like to repeat that? A lot of people still think Openness is only good for ground strokes; it will never be good for serves. Just want to say and show "not quite so".
I hate to disappoint you, but your serve isn't good.
 

oserver

Professional
I hate to disappoint you, but your serve isn't good.

That is exactly why I switched to open tennis serve, because my old serves using dogmatic forms were even worse. If one likes to talk about good serve, we can talk about Venus William's first serve. She definitely likes the open concept/practice.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
You're taking ONE example of a pro server, and I don't think she preps her serve like you do, nor does she open up nearly as early to arm the ball like you do.
Topspin Shot's serves are in the 120 range, so faster than Venus's, slightly slower than Serena's, and considered a GOOD serve by everyone here on TW, including the 5.0 level guys.
YOUR serve is slower than 60, probably closer to 45 mph, so while it's a stellar serve at YOUR level of play, it's not good enough for 99% of the player's on this tennis forum.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Wait a minute... The spin move is part of the serve!?

3eb4451766803199c095e4a2cd2b6711


http://www.tennis-points.com/articles.html

Oh God, why?
 
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Absolutely terrible! haha! But, you got to admit this guy has some balls to post THAT MESS on THIS forum wearing black tights! And ur absolutely right LeeD, its all about levels. This is probably miles better than his peers serves, so he had to show us this "new open serve". haha Good luck man, just messin with you.
 

oserver

Professional
YOUR serve is slower than 60, probably closer to 45 mph, so while it's a stellar serve at YOUR level of play, it's not good enough for 99% of the player's on this tennis forum.

Haha, first, you labeled me as a 3.0 player, now my serve is between 45 - 60 mph. Do you like to play a match with me to show how easy it is to beat a guy as you described, starting with 0(you) - 3 for each set, since you rate you so high above me. I'm in Bay Area too.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
We can play, but it's a waste of my time, and a good lesson for you.
Your level of play is sub 3.5, and most 3.5's get 0-2 games off me a set. Waste of time for me, but of course, a real treat for you.
I"m about the same level as Shroud, who posts a lot of video's of his game here on TW. The guys we play against are also the same level, and often the same guys. You would be hard pressed to get ONE game a set off Shroud, or me. And that would happen only if we're bored to death. Most sets, it's a bagel for you.
However, if you want to embarrass yourself, I play MWFriday at San Pablo Park in Berkeley. Usually show around 11, and play till 2. You would get crushed by all the guys in the crowd I play with, and probably lose badly to all the guys I don't play with because they're 3.5 level player's.
Because you're possibly Asian also, I'd take the moment to caution you away from your bravado here. You are basically a beginner tennis player, while I've played tennis for over 40 years. No match for me, a waste of my time, but if you want to embarrass yourself, show up any Monday, Wednesday, or Friday, mid day.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
LeeD, I believe that's a challenge

Please make it happen :D

I doubt it would be any fun for either of us. No fun for me, because it's a waste of time to play with a beginner. No fun for him, because he won't get to many balls, and he doesn't have the power to trouble any 4.0 level player.
I sorta avoid the morning 3.5 level crowd, would rather hit the wall and wait for the better player's to show rather than play with them. A couple of guys in that crowd are high 4.0's, certainly better player's than me, but they don't hit to me unless they absolutely have to, preferring to pick on my weak partners instead of playing a good point. They like to win, and often throw their rackets when they lose A POINT, and often just walk off the court rather than finish a losing set. So I usually don't play with them either.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Subscribed.

J

Dude.... be serious. It would be worse then ME asking you to play...which would be a waste of YOUR time, and something I would never ask.
At least, I can win a few points against 4.5/5.0 level player's, being lefty and such. A few points like 4 a set, I mean.
HE won't win ANY points, but I might lose 6 points a set from boredom.
I have beaten "Rufus Smith", who used to post here, a self proclaimed "tournament 4.0 player", 6-0 with him not winning one point, but I did make some errors and missed maybe 5 shots in each set we played.
This guy, Oserver, is a much worse and totally non knowledgeable player.
 
That is exactly why I switched to open tennis serve, because my old serves using dogmatic forms were even worse. If one likes to talk about good serve, we can talk about Venus William's first serve. She definitely likes the open concept/practice.
You'd have been better off learning how to serve properly. Also, Venus isn't doing anything close to what you're doing.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
If you won't listen to what I say, at least listen to Topspin Shot, who is a 4.5+ player with a real strong serve at his level of play.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
I doubt it would be any fun for either of us. No fun for me, because it's a waste of time to play with a beginner. No fun for him, because he won't get to many balls, and he doesn't have the power to trouble any 4.0 level player.
I sorta avoid the morning 3.5 level crowd, would rather hit the wall and wait for the better player's to show rather than play with them. A couple of guys in that crowd are high 4.0's, certainly better player's than me, but they don't hit to me unless they absolutely have to, preferring to pick on my weak partners instead of playing a good point. They like to win, and often throw their rackets when they lose A POINT, and often just walk off the court rather than finish a losing set. So I usually don't play with them either.
USTA says he's a 4.0:

http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/...FFE0E8A9B5847B5A79687F2E3D3C&par2=2016&par3=0
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Since he lives in the SF Bay Area, he's free to show up at San Pablo Park MWF, 11-2, and I can get him into a set of 4.0 doubles. He would get embarrassed serving like that, and it might end his obstinance about his serve technique.
 

oserver

Professional
Wait a minute... The spin move is part of the serve!?

3eb4451766803199c095e4a2cd2b6711


http://www.tennis-points.com/articles.html

Oh God, why?

The above photos were shot more than a year ago. I think I got better now in terms of serve form, serve pace and spin. I'm not trying to promote the 360 degree spinning serve. But for many player whose serve followthrough is incomplete, or the shoulder/arm angular motion need improvement, this can be a useful tool for practice. A cautionary note here is that if one use the closed stance to serve, the stance close the door for this kind of motion. Open stance opens the door for variety, including the spinning serve.

One thing I did not mention in the articles is the energy efficiency aspect- in a later part of a conventional serve, a player has to do a reverse motion to get back to the ready position for the next shot. The harder the serve, the harder the withdrawing/recover motion. For the spinning serve, part of the harder forward motion is utilized in the turn around motion after the followthrough. It is more energy efficient, since there is no withdrawing/countering force that has to be applied. For the aging population, the knees are our weakest tennis link. I do spinning serves more often now, trying not to stress my knee so I can play more. This sounds a little crazy - What? spinning around is more energy efficient than a forth and back motion? I'll let experts in biomechanics who has knowledge/tools to prove whether my speculation is right or wrong.
 
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I also want to see this match on video! haha And, I can't believe your still pushing this mess? The only "benefits" of your "open stance" serve, could be: a)possibly easier to toss, since theirs nearly no shoulder rotation, b)yes, possibly less stress on joints... but that's it.
Theirs no coiling of anywhere, hardly any shoulder rotation. McEnroe still busts huge serves for his age, simply because of his extreme shoulder rotation. And, to put it in a simple baseball analogy, with your shoulders open like this, the only thing u can do is 'bunt'. This serve looks like a very slow bunt over the net and would get pummeled by a lot of players. Its good if u can somehow use this serve effectively, but even if i can get when I teach 3.0 players the serve, say 10 to 20 percent of decent shoulder rotation, they have the same or better serve than u do. I can't really believe your pushing on with this as a viable serve for anyone. haha Please kids, do not try this at home! haha
 

oserver

Professional
I also want to see this match on video! haha And, I can't believe your still pushing this mess? The only "benefits" of your "open stance" serve, could be: a)possibly easier to toss, since theirs nearly no shoulder rotation, b)yes, possibly less stress on joints... but that's it.
Theirs no coiling of anywhere, hardly any shoulder rotation.

Haha, is it possible that I rotate 360 degree but I have "hardly any shoulder rotation", and my serving shoulder is still with me after the serve? I'll be glad to see it If you can pin point from each of 20 or so frames of my serve photos (first one is not a spinning serve, second one is) to show the "hardly any shoulder rotation" part.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Haha, is it possible that I rotate 360 degree but I have "hardly any shoulder rotation", and my serving shoulder is still with me after the serve? I'll be glad to see it If you can pin point from each of 20 or so frames of my serve photos (first one is not a spinning serve, second one is) to show the "hardly any shoulder rotation" part.
I went over your video here. There is no appreciable pace improvement between the first couple of serves without the spin move and the later ones in the video with the spin move. They are all in the upper 60s/lower 70s... So, what's the point?

 
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Cmon man!.. This extra silly "spin" is all AFTER THE FACT! AFTER the ball has WAYY LEFT YOUR RACKET! By the time u got ur head back to front, the return of serve would have a)whizzed past u, b)hit the fence, c)you would be wondering where the ball went!(if U didn't see it during ur spin hit your own back FENCE!) haha! This can't get any more ridiculous! haha
I'm gonna give u 20 pct EFFECTIVE(if, I should even use that word, haha) shoulder rotation, and the rest is to impress you?, your buddies?, us? It's just crazy looking man, and nearly totally ineffective! haha
Get off the internet and get some lessons! Your forehand grip you use is why nearly none of your serves are going into the box. So, no spin to pull the ball down. Man, I could go on and on, but u need a pro near u to help u out. Good luck.
 

oserver

Professional
Seeing more 4.0 and 4.5 gals and guys use open stance to serve, and seeing Venus Williams repeatedly abandoning the closed stance serve dogma, I'm less pessimistically now.

My point is this - it doesn't matter who like it or who dislike it, open tennis serve (either open stance or open grip or both) is here to stay. It is (or they are) alternatives to conventional serve forms (closed stances and closed grips). How good are those alternatives? Only time can tell (no one has to listen to my theory). Venus William has used open stance (at least semi-open stance) many times for her first serves (for more power and spin, apparently). She has been a top server among the elite female players. Why she or her coach is quiet about her deviation from all other elite players is a mystery to me. Again, time will tell.
 

oserver

Professional
Look, TimeToPlaySets, even this guy pronates.

Learned to pronate years back when I used continental grip with a pin-point stance. Certainly I don't have intention to invent a wheel.

Do you know that an open grip let you pronate more, not less.
 

oserver

Professional
I haven't seen him serve traditionally. Maybe this is better?

Love the passion, anyway.

This video I took a year and half ago has all kinds of serve stances and serve grips in practice. It shows the continental grip and closed stance are not anyway superior than serves using open stance or open grip, or both. In short, it is a myth that a player has to use the continental grip and a closed stance.

 
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SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
This video I took a year and half ago has all kinds of serve stances and serve grips in practice. It shows the continental grip and closed stance are not anyway superior than serves using open stance or open grip, or both. In short, it is a myth that a player has to use continental grip and closed stance.

This checks out.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
This is the future of tennis. Someday you guys will regret all the naysaying. It will take time (how many years did it take for the modern forehand to take over?), but it is inevitable. This is tennis' fosbury flop.

Have you given it a name yet so history will remember your contribution to the game?
 

meltphace 6

Hall of Fame
This video I took a year and half ago has all kinds of serve stances and serve grips in practice. It shows the continental grip and closed stance are not anyway superior than serves using open stance or open grip, or both. In short, it is a myth that a player has to use continental grip and closed stance.

No continental grip can be seen in this video.
 
This video I took a year and half ago has all kinds of serve stances and serve grips in practice. It shows the continental grip and closed stance are not anyway superior than serves using open stance or open grip, or both. In short, it is a myth that a player has to use the continental grip and a closed stance.

You've shown that you can't serve well either way, not that someone can serve well with an open stance.
 
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