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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Oserver makes an important admission, which is that his spinning serve is simply an exaggerated follow-through of his normal serve. In other words, he's never had anywahere near proper torso coil in the serve, he's always been very front-on, and the only way to add any kind of rotation to that kind of serve is by over-rotating and hitting a reverse serve with a semi-western grip. Plenty of beginner players do this kind of stuff, just without the full spin.
Players who use some decent upper body coil will not over-rotate, and will not use a semi western grip.
interestingly the 360 spin after the fh/bh could help as a teaching aid with folks that have trouble following through (ie. breaking the habit of the overly winshield-wipey motion - vs. hitting through the contact to the target)
 

oserver

Professional
Oserver makes an important admission, which is that his spinning serve is simply an exaggerated follow-through of his normal serve. In other words, he's never had anywahere near proper torso coil in the serve, he's always been very front-on, and the only way to add any kind of rotation to that kind of serve is by over-rotating and hitting a reverse serve with a semi-western grip. Plenty of beginner players do this kind of stuff, just without the full spin.
Players who use some decent upper body coil will not over-rotate, and will not use a semi western grip.

"the only way to add any kind of rotation to that kind of serve is by over-rotating and hitting a reverse serve with a semi-western grip. " What this statement come from? If you use this kind of analysis and you try to pass the USPTA technique analysis exam, you will fail miserably, guaranteed.
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
"the only way to add any kind of rotation to that kind of serve is by over-rotating and hitting a reverse serve with a semi-western grip. " What this statement come from? If you use this kind of analysis and you try to pass the USPTA technique analysis exam, you will fail miserably, guaranteed.
Cool
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
interestingly the 360 spin after the fh/bh could help as a teaching aid with folks that have trouble following through (ie. breaking the habit of the overly winshield-wipey motion - vs. hitting through the contact to the target)

Yeah, on the open stance forehand we already rotate well past contact, it's pretty normal.
On the serve it's not, only for people who have no trunk coil in the prep phase.
There's a simple cause and effect relationship between over-rotation and a semi western grip on the serve. You will only over-rotate if you use a semi western grip. And vice versa, if you have no body coil, you will need to use a semi western grip, because that means you will be facing toward the left side on contact (as a rightie), giving you some rotation.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Yeah, on the open stance forehand we already rotate well past contact, it's pretty normal.
On the serve it's not, only for people who have no trunk coil in the prep phase.
There's a simple cause and effect relationship between over-rotation and a semi western grip on the serve. You will only over-rotate if you use a semi western grip. And vice versa, if you have no body coil, you will need to use a semi western grip, because that means you will be facing toward the left side on contact (as a rightie), giving you some rotation.
totally agree, but please don't dissuade him from posting more 360 spin vids.
 

oserver

Professional
yeah, but not the entertaining kind of 360 that @oserver is demostrating...
that said, i need to see more 360 fh and bh vids please.
i think i'm good for this week, with the last vid... making and advanced request for next week.

Alright, this video was made for your curiosity, lol, to show my diligent!?


For forehand and backhand, you don't need to worry the recovery time if your opponent is not approaching to the net. Using the following slow dancing pace to turn around will be perfectly ok.

 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Alright, this video was made for your curiosity, lol, to show my diligent!?


For forehand and backhand, you don't need to worry the recovery time if your opponent is not approaching to the net. Using the following slow dancing pace to turn around will be perfectly ok.
love it, thx you @oserver

on the bh, why'd you spin the other way? shouldn't you spin in the direction you're swinging? either way you made me smile :)
 

meltphace 6

Hall of Fame
Take it to the next level:
Saltovor1b.gif
 

oserver

Professional
love it, thx you @oserver

on the bh, why'd you spin the other way? shouldn't you spin in the direction you're swinging? either way you made me smile :)

I can spin in the direction of swinging but that would get me more to the ally side. Spin the other way got me to the recovery position better for this shot.
 
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oserver

Professional
Take it to the next level:
Saltovor1b.gif
Haha, I guess players have young legs can try to do a running overhead shot then do a somersault. That will be very entertaining indeed. I'm too old for it even without holding a racket.

In basket ball, they have all kinds of shooting, dunking, tricking moves. I guess tennis players are colorful in outside costumes, but in contrast, we have dull creativity inside.

Are we ready for a new era of Open Tennis, with gymnastics, ballet and hip hops? Open to not just stance, grips, but also every other applicable sports/arts!? Open Tennis is like a jar of warms, not necessarily bad warms.
 

mbm0912

Hall of Fame
Alright, this video was made for your curiosity, lol, to show my diligent!?


For forehand and backhand, you don't need to worry the recovery time if your opponent is not approaching to the net. Using the following slow dancing pace to turn around will be perfectly ok.
butchering a game of aesthetics. Thanks for the laugh though
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
Hey, check out Younes El Aynaoui, the CLOSEST THING there is to @oserver theory! Of course, you should see his torso position and specially the grip (NO way he's using a fh grip, like OP), but hey, much closer than Wawrinka or V.Williams!

Maybe try and copy El Aynaoui, @oserver ?

 

oserver

Professional
Hey, check out Younes El Aynaoui, the CLOSEST THING there is to @oserver theory! Of course, you should see his torso position and specially the grip (NO way he's using a fh grip, like OP), but hey, much closer than Wawrinka or V.Williams!

Maybe try and copy El Aynaoui, @oserver ?


So who said open stance serves cannot be effective. Wawrinka and V.Williams maybe funs of Aynaoui when they are young, who knows.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
So who said open stance serves cannot be effective. Wawrinka and V.Williams maybe funs of Aynaoui when they are young, who knows.

*Sigh*...... you missed the joke. Neither Wawrinka, nor V.Williams nor El Aynaoui serve Open Stancw as YOU suggest and serve...

Its pin-point, PIN-POINT.

Look at their grip, hips and shoulders and compare to your serve.
 

oserver

Professional
*Sigh*...... you missed the joke. Neither Wawrinka, nor V.Williams nor El Aynaoui serve Open Stancw as YOU suggest and serve...

Its pin-point, PIN-POINT.

Look at their grip, hips and shoulders and compare to your serve.

"Look at their grip, hips and shoulders" - all you asked me to look are techniques. Stance is a form. You mixed all up. When we talk about stance, we focus on the feet, either stationary (platform), or step-in (pin-point)/step-out (open or semi-open). El Aynaoui's stance is not pin-point at all. He step-out wide to form a open or semi-open at loading stage.

Why we argue something so obvious?!
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
Feel free to call their serves open stance. But then somehow there needs to be a clear distinction made between their serves and the crap that you're trying to promote.

Their "open stance" serve has very little fundamental difference from any other high quality serve. Unlike your "revolutionary" concept.
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
"Look at their grip, hips and shoulders" - all you asked me to look are techniques. Stance is a form. You mixed all up. When we talk about stance, we focus on the feet, either stationary (platform), or step-in (pin-point)/step-out (open or semi-open). El Aynaoui's stance is not pin-point at all. He step-out wide to form a open or semi-open at loading stage.

Why we argue something so obvious?!

Youve included an Open Grip axiom into your theory, so..... thats why. Youve suggested Wawrinka DOESNT use a continental grip to serve, but a forehand grip, which he doesnt.
 

oserver

Professional
Feel free to call their serves open stance. But then somehow there needs to be a clear distinction made between their serves and the crap that you're trying to promote.

I'll be happy if no one dispute facts. As to the distinction between a 4.0 level player vs a 7.0 level player, it's ok to call my serve crappy in comparison to a 4.5 or above level players. If you are a 4.5 player, your serve can be crappy too in comparison to a 5.5 or above level players.

[/QUOTE] Their "open stance" serve has very little fundamental difference from any other high quality serve. Unlike your "revolutionary" concept.[/QUOTE]

Form wise in stance, I did almost exactly as El Aynaoui did in some of my serves. Technically, I did what a 4.0 level player can do, and never tried to beautify my serves in terms of quality to those players in higher player levels.
 

oserver

Professional
Youve included an Open Grip axiom into your theory, so..... thats why. Youve suggested Wawrinka DOESNT use a continental grip to serve, but a forehand grip, which he doesnt.

Can you prove where I said Wawrinka used a forehand grip to serve?

I provided photos to show Wawrinka used a grip between continental and eastern forehand grip. Can you provide photos to show Wawrinka used continental grip to serve this year or in 2016?
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
Can you prove where I said Wawrinka used a forehand grip to serve?

I provided photos to show Wawrinka used a grip between continental and eastern forehand grip. Can you provide photos to show Wawrinka used continental grip to serve this year or in 2016?

You just proved it yourself. Those photos show a CONTINENTAL GRIP, not an eastern forehand grip, like you state.
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
I'll be happy if no one dispute facts. As to the distinction between a 4.0 level player vs a 7.0 level player, it's ok to call my serve crappy in comparison to a 4.5 or above level players. If you are a 4.5 player, your serve can be crappy too in comparison to a 5.5 or above level players.

Form wise in stance, I did almost exactly as El Aynaoui did in some of my serves. Technically, I did what a 4.0 level player can do, and never tried to beautify my serves in terms of quality to those players in higher player levels.

Oh cool. I swear I saw you do a 360 turn. And I thought you were promoting a semi western grip too. I thought you were also trying to draw a parallel between these serves and the open stance forehand. My bad. Must be my old age playing tricks with my mind.

But in that case these serves are nothing new, fundamentally the same as any other high level serve.
- The upper body is coiled, even when they step up and out with their right leg. This is thanks to their starting stance, which is invariably closed
- They swing upwards and outwards, which means there must be no rotation through and past contact
 

RapidFail84

New User
My first post here:

I've newly returned to playing tennis, in my late teens I would have been a 4.0-4.5 player, now I'd be a 3.0, but I can beat a 3.5 on a good day.

I have a 'waiter's serve' with an eastern to SW grip but it is actually pretty good and I get a lot of aces and free points off it. I've had my serve timed at 170kph (106mph). My first serve percentage generally sits around 50%. I can do a kick serve with this grip too, but it's a bit slow and not accuate enough to use as a 2nd serve (maybe 60-70%) My second serve is a lollypop as I don't get enough accuracy with anything else.

I've recently given up on pronation as I'm not getting the hang of it and TBH my groundstrokes are a much bigger issue. Once I've got them sorted I might look at changing up my serve.

Last weekend I lost 4-6 6-7 to a 3.5 player with good court coverage and I hit 14 aces. I guess what I'm saying is that for many players who aren't looking to make tennis their career, a waiter's serve isn't necessarily a terrible thing.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
My first post here:

I've newly returned to playing tennis, in my late teens I would have been a 4.0-4.5 player, now I'd be a 3.0, but I can beat a 3.5 on a good day.

I have a 'waiter's serve' with an eastern to SW grip but it is actually pretty good and I get a lot of aces and free points off it. I've had my serve timed at 170kph (106mph). My first serve percentage generally sits around 50%. I can do a kick serve with this grip too, but it's a bit slow and not accuate enough to use as a 2nd serve (maybe 60-70%) My second serve is a lollypop as I don't get enough accuracy with anything else.

I've recently given up on pronation as I'm not getting the hang of it and TBH my groundstrokes are a much bigger issue. Once I've got them sorted I might look at changing up my serve.

Last weekend I lost 4-6 6-7 to a 3.5 player with good court coverage and I hit 14 aces. I guess what I'm saying is that for many players who aren't looking to make tennis their career, a waiter's serve isn't necessarily a terrible thing.
Look, if it works well as you say, you're having fun at the level you are currently, and / or you don't intend to make tennis your career, then there's nothing wrong with a waiter's tray serve. If you want to take your serve to the 'next level', and don't mind taking a step back in level to take two steps forward, then you should learn to hit your serves with better technique.

But there's a huge difference between that, and what OP is doing, which is to use pseudoscience and mental gymnastics to preach incorrect technique as being correct. It's also an insult to our collective observational skills to suggest that the pros are using the 'open stance serve' with an eastern grip.
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
I think eastern grip can work for a proper flat serve. Semi western can't.
 

RapidFail84

New User
My grip is on the border of E and SW, same as I use for my forehand. Works fine for my standard but no topspin. If I wasn't 6'1" with long arms I imagine I might not be able to get away with it.
 

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Last weekend I lost 4-6 6-7 to a 3.5 player with good court coverage and I hit 14 aces. I guess what I'm saying is that for many players who aren't looking to make tennis their career, a waiter's serve isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Any technique is fine as long as you don't care about results or long term health. That goes without saying. For the most part, it's not those content with losing to 3.5's who are asking for advice on improving, however.

But more importantly, I can't even imagine what a kick serve with a SW forehand grip would look like. I think you'd need an extra set of elbows.
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
I think with a SW, it must be a reverse serve. That's when you swing towards the left across your body, as opposed to outwards to the right. Otherwise the racket head won't face the target.
 

RapidFail84

New User
I think with a SW, it must be a reverse serve. That's when you swing towards the left across your body, as opposed to outwards to the right. Otherwise the racket head won't face the target.

As I said, my grip is on the border of Eastern and SW, perhaps it's technically Eastern, I'm not sure. For my kick serve, I toss the ball more behind my head and swing left-to-right - it means I have to turn my body more towards the court when hitting it to the forehand side and also means my opponent knows I'm doing a kick serve before I hit it, which isn't ideal! I'm not sure what kind of pack I'm getting on these serves, but much less than my flat serve, probably not better than 70mph I'd imagine.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
As I said, my grip is on the border of Eastern and SW, perhaps it's technically Eastern, I'm not sure. For my kick serve, I toss the ball more behind my head and swing left-to-right - it means I have to turn my body more towards the court when hitting it to the forehand side and also means my opponent knows I'm doing a kick serve before I hit it, which isn't ideal! I'm not sure what kind of pack I'm getting on these serves, but much less than my flat serve, probably not better than 70mph I'd imagine.
Record yourself hitting the serve and use this tool to calculate the speed:

http://donthireddy.us/tennis/speed.html

A 70 mph kick serve is actually really good
 

RapidFail84

New User
Any technique is fine as long as you don't care about results or long term health. That goes without saying. For the most part, it's not those content with losing to 3.5's who are asking for advice on improving, however.

But more importantly, I can't even imagine what a kick serve with a SW forehand grip would look like. I think you'd need an extra set of elbows.

For the record, I would like to switch to a continental grip serve one day and have made efforts to do so, which have so far been unsuccessful. I also got a very sore shoulder every time I've tried to do it, so I've given up on the continental grip serve for the time being and won't try it again until I have a coach with me to talk me through it. I've watched loads of YouTube videos on it but none have helped. I've never had any kind of health issues from my 'waiter's serve', even when playing tennis three times per week for years on end (although tbh I was a teenager then and more likely to get away with it than I would be now).
 

oserver

Professional
My first post here:

I've newly returned to playing tennis, in my late teens I would have been a 4.0-4.5 player, now I'd be a 3.0, but I can beat a 3.5 on a good day.

I have a 'waiter's serve' with an eastern to SW grip but it is actually pretty good and I get a lot of aces and free points off it. I've had my serve timed at 170kph (106mph). My first serve percentage generally sits around 50%. I can do a kick serve with this grip too, but it's a bit slow and not accuate enough to use as a 2nd serve (maybe 60-70%) My second serve is a lollypop as I don't get enough accuracy with anything else.

I've recently given up on pronation as I'm not getting the hang of it and TBH my groundstrokes are a much bigger issue. Once I've got them sorted I might look at changing up my serve.

Last weekend I lost 4-6 6-7 to a 3.5 player with good court coverage and I hit 14 aces. I guess what I'm saying is that for many players who aren't looking to make tennis their career, a waiter's serve isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

I guess if you are 4.0-4.5 as a junior, you went through some training of using continental grip to serve. You can go back to follow the official serve grip, or using your forehand grip to serve to the next level. Many posters on this thread don't believe this because they have a mental barrier to seriously try it. It is easier to using eastern forehand grip or semi-western grip to serve than using eastern backhand grip (#1) to serve, using the same modern techniques. Who said one cannot do pronation if you are not using continental grip? On the contrary, one can do more pronation using #3, #4 grip than using #2 grip. Just take a racket and face a mirror, you'll know immediately my assertion is true. Labeling #3 and #4 grips as beginner grips is totally wrong. Currently, the stance is opened somewhat at elite level, the grip is also opened a bit by Stan. This new beginning is not the end, as many of posters here like to wish. Tennis players have been using #2 grip to serve in more than one hundred years. All coaching has been concentrated on #2 serve grip. This created a big myth, the closeness myth for tennis serve. I made this thread to crack this myth.

Think about this, more than half of tennis population are using a non-#2 grip to serve, some of them may have tried one or more times in years to use #2 grip to serve but failed. Is there any biomechanics study to prove one cannot have effective serves using grip other than #2? If anyone can provided one, please let all f us know.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
Any technique is fine as long as you don't care about results or long term health. That goes without saying. For the most part, it's not those content with losing to 3.5's who are asking for advice on improving, however.

But more importantly, I can't even imagine what a kick serve with a SW forehand grip would look like. I think you'd need an extra set of elbows.
Pretty sure oserver never responded when i asked him about a kick serve. Its impossible with an open grip and open stance. Ok i suppose you could do some lame version but with lefty spin. Its one of the many reasons op is nuts.
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
I guess if you are 4.0-4.5 as a junior, you went through some training of using continental grip to serve. You can go back to follow the official serve grip, or using your forehand grip to serve to the next level. Many posters on this thread don't believe this because they have a mental barrier to seriously try it. It is easier to using eastern forehand grip or semi-western grip to serve than using eastern backhand grip (#1) to serve, using the same modern techniques. Who said one cannot do pronation if you are not using continental grip? On the contrary, one can do more pronation using #3, #4 grip than using #2 grip. Just take a racket and face a mirror, you'll know immediately my assertion is true. Labeling #3 and #4 grips as beginner grips is totally wrong. Currently, the stance is opened somewhat at elite level, the grip is also opened a bit by Stan. This new beginning is not the end, as many of posters here like to wish. Tennis players have been using #2 grip to serve in more than one hundred years. All coaching has been concentrated on #2 serve grip. This created a big myth, the closeness myth for tennis serve. I made this thread to crack this myth.

Think about this, more than half of tennis population are using a non-#2 grip to serve, some of them may have tried one or more times in years to use #2 grip to serve but failed. Is there any biomechanics study to prove one cannot have effective serves using grip other than #2? If anyone can provided one, please let all f us know.
Jesus, more garbage.

The fact that more than half the players play with the wrong grip yet every elite server in the history of the game uses a continental grip (or something very close to it) and a closed stance is proof that it's the right way to serve

You have zero compelling arguments. I mean, if you could hit 100+ with good consistency and placement then maybe people wouldn't ridicule you as badly when you try to tell us that you have a revolutionary idea. Instead, you have a mediocre amateur serve in the 60-70mph range which is easily the worst part of your game

This is like a guy claiming he has a revolutionary strength training regimen but can barely bench 100 lbs
 

oserver

Professional
Jesus, more garbage.

The fact that more than half the players play with the wrong grip yet every elite server in the history of the game uses a continental grip (or something very close to it) and a closed stance is proof that it's the right way to serve

If you read the tennis history, for more than one hundred years, open grip (like the currently popular semi-western grip) was not the choice of elite players for forehand ground strokes. So "every elite" something does not matter in a historic perspective.

I asked this: "Is there any biomechanics study to prove one cannot have effective serves using grip other than #2? Can you answer?
 

oserver

Professional
I love that he says "the grip is opened a little bit by Stan". We have now hit another level of desperation by this guy. He is trying to attach the word "open" to anything at this point, and still failing at it.

How about you provide a photo or two to show that Stan recently is using a closed grip (continental) to serve. If he changed from #2 to #2 1/2, can I say that he opened a bit?

I did my homework and provided photos to show he was not using a #2 grip. It's your turn now, ok!
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
If you read the tennis history, for more than one hundred years, open grip (like the currently popular semi-western grip) was not the choice of elite players for forehand ground strokes. So "every elite" something does not matter in a historic perspective.

I asked this: "Is there any biomechanics study to prove one cannot have effective serves using grip other than #2? Can you answer?
It's a waste of time and resources until someone can show this serving style can be effective at the pro level.

Tens of thousands have tried your way and failed; it's not even a new idea.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
If you read the tennis history, for more than one hundred years, open grip (like the currently popular semi-western grip) was not the choice of elite players for forehand ground strokes. So "every elite" something does not matter in a historic perspective.

I asked this: "Is there any biomechanics study to prove one cannot have effective serves using grip other than #2? Can you answer?
Its been pointed out already that elite players WERE using sw grips on the fh in the past and its nothing new. You seem so determined to support your beliefs even in the face of convincing evidence that i doibt you would believe such a study...
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
How about you provide a photo or two to show that Stan recently is using a closed grip (continental) to serve. If he changed from #2 to #2 1/2, can I say that he opened a bit?

I did my homework and provided photos to show he was not using a #2 grip. It's your turn now, ok!

No, you don't understand my point. The term open does not really apply at all to a tennis grip. You are trying to make it apply so you can use the word "open" as a keyword for anything now. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time.
 

oserver

Professional
No, you don't understand my point. The term open does not really apply at all to a tennis grip. You are trying to make it apply so you can use the word "open" as a keyword for anything now. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time.

"The term open does not really apply at all to a tennis grip." Who said it? You or you are quoting someone who has some kind of authority in tennis world?

Why open grip (#3, #4, #5) are so often refereed in tennis forehand grip, but cannot be referred to tennis serve grip? Just because every famous players have been using a more or less #2 grip (#2, #1 are closed grips), we have to eliminate the word "open" from tennis serve discussions? Is this your logic?
 

pabletion

Hall of Fame
"The term open does not really apply at all to a tennis grip." Who said it? You or you are quoting someone who has some kind of authority in tennis world?

Why open grip (#3, #4, #5) are so often refereed in tennis forehand grip, but cannot be referred to tennis serve grip? Just because every famous players have been using a more or less #2 grip (#2, #1 are closed grips), we have to eliminate the word "open" from tennis serve discussions? Is this your logic?

You dont believe in evolution, dont you?
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
"The term open does not really apply at all to a tennis grip." Who said it? You or you are quoting someone who has some kind of authority in tennis world?

Why open grip (#3, #4, #5) are so often refereed in tennis forehand grip, but cannot be referred to tennis serve grip? Just because every famous players have been using a more or less #2 grip (#2, #1 are closed grips), we have to eliminate the word "open" from tennis serve discussions? Is this your logic?

Yeah I am quoting everyone who plays tennis and uses the terms semiwestern, eastern, continental..etc. Instead of the vagueness of the word open, which is completely useless and makes no sense.

My logic is this - you have no idea what you are doing or talking about. And you are not going to change or evolve tennis in any way, because you lack the basic biomechanical knowledge to understand the foundations of the game in the first place. Your desperate attempt to inject the word open into technical discussion as some sort of poor man's copyright not only undermines any sliver of credibility that you may have ever had, but also reveals that this entire thread and concept is more ego driven. A mad grab for some kind of attention that you possibly never received as a young adult.
 

oserver

Professional
Yeah I am quoting everyone who plays tennis and uses the terms semiwestern, eastern, continental..etc. Instead of the vagueness of the word open, which is completely useless and makes no sense.

My logic is this - you have no idea what you are doing or talking about. And you are not going to change or evolve tennis in any way, because you lack the basic biomechanical knowledge to understand the foundations of the game in the first place. Your desperate attempt to inject the word open into technical discussion as some sort of poor man's copyright not only undermines any sliver of credibility that you may have ever had, but also reveals that this entire thread and concept is more ego driven. A mad grab for some kind of attention that you possibly never received as a young adult.

Haha, sounds like beside tennis, you have another hobby in human psychology, but I have to say that your psychological assessment of me is worse than a level of 2.5 USTA tennis players.
 

oserver

Professional
You dont believe in evolution, dont you?

On the contrary, I the tennis evolution has indications that the closed stance/close grip serves has run its course in dominance for so long before our grandparents were even bore. Open stance/open grip serves is starting to assert its power now. Things sometimes change from top, sometimes change from grassroots level.

Like I said before, even I'm out numbered here, I'm holding a 3 to 1 lead in tennis serve options: A, B, D to C. Anyone need a review of what does A, B, D, C serve mean?
 
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Attila_the_gorilla

Guest
There is a concept out there called topspin. This thing allows players to maximize ball speed, whille still having good margins.
Every good server tries to apply copious amounts of topspin to their serves, even the flat serves.
Everyone who understands this principle will always naturally end up serving with a continental grip or very close to it, even without being trained to. Because that allows you to make contact with the ball while the racket head is travelling on a topspin generating swingpath. Ie from low to high, and from open racket face to closed.

At least show us how you can hit a semi western serve that is not a reverse serve. I don't even think it's possible.
 
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