rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Just wow???? Serious? Or joke?
Open Tennis Serve
pabletion
Hall of Fame
He mad!
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
The reverse spin is pretty cool though if he can hit it much faster. But he doesn't seem like a tennis player. More like one of those guys that hack about the court.
If you look at his playing videos, he has good strokes and moves incredibly well for his age. The sad part is he believes that gives credence to his absurd serve theories, when in fact, it is the serve that is holding him back from being an even better player.
pabletion
Hall of Fame
Ita because apparently he got a USPTA teachers certificate from a cereal box or something of the sorts..... So he thinks he's entitled to "re-engineer" tennis.
oserver
Professional
Did someone mentioned the word "Torture" a few days ago. This one was supposed to be transmitted and watched by cell phone to get the wide screen view, not intended to watch in this 90 degree flipped fashion. Ok, I didn't post it here, you did. So if anyone feels to be tortured, you should get the blame! BTY, thanks for posting the link here.
This thread is brilliant, this new technique shows a slow serve that the server looks happy to hit in the box like it's some sort of achievement. I have met a father that tried to coach this to his child thinking it was stress free on his body, he had a wierd forehand too, very choppy. I'll give the lad credit though, he had a consistent and accurate groundgame but the serve really is hopeless. With the chopper grip you can mix the spins up and hit blistering and accurate bombs, this serve here is just comedy.
oserver
Professional
Now you have you wish - the 360 degree serve, 180 degree serves and many serves something in between, more than 4 minutes of continuous practice footages unedited. So, if I was willing to turn 360 degree to serve, are you willing tilt your head just 90 degree to count how many serves were in/out/hitting the tape/ etc. To get an accurate counts, you can save the video on iPhone to allow zooming to see the service line and ball clearly.
For someone who insisted that my serve has no topspin, there were some serves that had high net clearances so you can see the curved ball bounces.
Did I mention I was using semi-western grip with open stance, against all the conventional/traditional tennis serve dogmas?
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
No topspin. Those barely bounce 2ft high. No serves got over 3ft high. A good topspin serve should bounce at least 5ft high.
Wets is all wet
pabletion
Hall of Fame
Yea, that would be because of GRAVITY (and slow velocity). Moron.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Have you tried rotating your head 360 degrees to watch it? It causes your brain to spin therefore increasing your intelligence and strengthening your moral fibre.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
i find spinning my phone while watching the vid, effective in understanding the mystery of @oserver
Stretchy Man
Professional
Sorry Gary, I couldn't understand what you were saying because of the sound quality. I did notice the three double faults though. 
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
looks like this serve has a hitch...
you start the 360 motion fine... with the correct frying pan grip...
but on your follow through, you just stop.
no 360.
I think in some circles they might call this a 180, but it's hard to tell from the video due to the motion blur created by the massive speed of your swing.
[edit] question about the phase where you rest your racquet on your shoulder... is that because thor's hammer is too heavy for mere mortals
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
don't listen to the hecklers and naysayers.Sorry Gary, I couldn't understand what you were saying because of the sound quality. I did notice the three double faults though.
when done correctly the 360 serve is a work of beauty
double faults be damned.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
This forum is insane!!!!!!!
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
oserver
Professional
"you rest your racquet on your shoulder", this is because Federer's forehand has a "pad a dog" before the forward swing (no big looping motion), so I created a "shoulder a lam" equivalent, or I can do a "touch a monkey" just to rest the racket momently and to hold the racket in a perfect wrist extension state. You guys are to lazy to read my LinkedIn article and are still asking pretty dumb questions.
oserver
Professional
Tennis 1, 2, 3 - double faults means the second serve is faulted. All my serves in the video were practicing first serves, no second serves involved, so where did you get the double faults determination?
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Are you from Japan too? Do you run a club with a guy named Thomas?
Topspin Shot
Legend
We're too lazy to read it because you're too lazy to proofread it.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Omg its the worst paper ever. Its nonsensical and based on faulty logic. No way it would pass a peer review
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
The paper is the new method that will sweep America. I read it and made copies to distribute outside supermarkets.
enishi1357
Semi-Pro
Unless this way of serving allows anyone above 5 ft to serve over 130mph, no one would use it. To put it kindly, the spin after the serve is so stupid no one will take it seriously. If you had played tennis when you're younger, perhaps you'll be able to learn the correct technique and train your body for it. Now that it's too late, bravo for finding a way that works for you. I'm all for innovation so keep it up.
ChaelAZ
G.O.A.T.
oserver
Professional
Finally, TW released the ban on me so I can post here again. Yesterday I was complaining in another tennis forum about the censorship on me for posting relevant and civilized contents (very controversy, I have to admit). Was it a magic to be a freeman again next day (in this forum).
What did I do for this one year (almost) gap. Anyone like to know?
First, a new paper of open tennis serve with a interesting name: Forehand Serve. It's on my LinkedIn pages. It's a sister paper of earlier paper "Open Tennis Serve Techniques". I used "Wrist Extension Tennis Serve" to name the serve style that time. Now, I think "Forehand Serve" should be a better name for it. Here is an abstract -
"What does that Forehand Serve mean? It means to use the modern forehand forms and techniques to serve, instead of using the old-fashioned forehand forms and techniques to serve, or using the conventional serve forms and techniques to serve." It also talked about the 3O's of forehand serve that are consistent with 3Os of modern forehand, and 3Cs of old fashioned forehand that are consistent with the 3Cs of the modern serve. I think it's a virtue to be able to simplify complicated things or historic events. Hope Forehand Serve or 3Os or 3Cs can convey my idea better. I hope this time no one will label it using the pancake word. I also posted some new videos about the forehand serve on YouTube.
Second, just like everyone, I have been watching French Open and found very interesting development related the open tennis serve. Here are two videos, one about Tektic's serve and another for Troicki's serve. Please pay attention to their serve stance -
Tektic
Troicki
Will it start a new tennis serve trend? Beside Tektic, Viktor Troicki also use open stance serve. They don't care about this hundred years old traditional serve form anymore. You have to wonder for what reason?
Third, I leave it now to save some ammunition for amusement...
What did I do for this one year (almost) gap. Anyone like to know?
First, a new paper of open tennis serve with a interesting name: Forehand Serve. It's on my LinkedIn pages. It's a sister paper of earlier paper "Open Tennis Serve Techniques". I used "Wrist Extension Tennis Serve" to name the serve style that time. Now, I think "Forehand Serve" should be a better name for it. Here is an abstract -
"What does that Forehand Serve mean? It means to use the modern forehand forms and techniques to serve, instead of using the old-fashioned forehand forms and techniques to serve, or using the conventional serve forms and techniques to serve." It also talked about the 3O's of forehand serve that are consistent with 3Os of modern forehand, and 3Cs of old fashioned forehand that are consistent with the 3Cs of the modern serve. I think it's a virtue to be able to simplify complicated things or historic events. Hope Forehand Serve or 3Os or 3Cs can convey my idea better. I hope this time no one will label it using the pancake word. I also posted some new videos about the forehand serve on YouTube.
Second, just like everyone, I have been watching French Open and found very interesting development related the open tennis serve. Here are two videos, one about Tektic's serve and another for Troicki's serve. Please pay attention to their serve stance -
Will it start a new tennis serve trend? Beside Tektic, Viktor Troicki also use open stance serve. They don't care about this hundred years old traditional serve form anymore. You have to wonder for what reason?
Third, I leave it now to save some ammunition for amusement...
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Whoops, I did not realize that this thread had many more pages.....anyhow
This and some others look Waiter's Tray. Racket facing sky does not in itself prove WT but it proves that the serve is not a high level serve technique. Probably there is little use of internal shoulder rotation (ISR). Maybe you use some after impact. ?
The WT is the most frequently used serving technique by active tennis players. >60%? How to improve the WT or the technique itself is hardly discussed or described because the high level serving technique has higher performance. The high level technique is described in detail in research publications, videos and forum discussions.
Pat Dougherty is the only one that I know of that has a video on how to improve the Waiter's Tray serving technique. He does not use the term Waiter's Tray.
It is OK to use the WT and make improvements to it.
This and some others look Waiter's Tray. Racket facing sky does not in itself prove WT but it proves that the serve is not a high level serve technique. Probably there is little use of internal shoulder rotation (ISR). Maybe you use some after impact. ?
The WT is the most frequently used serving technique by active tennis players. >60%? How to improve the WT or the technique itself is hardly discussed or described because the high level serving technique has higher performance. The high level technique is described in detail in research publications, videos and forum discussions.
Pat Dougherty is the only one that I know of that has a video on how to improve the Waiter's Tray serving technique. He does not use the term Waiter's Tray.
It is OK to use the WT and make improvements to it.
Last edited:
Oh happy days...
oserver
Professional
Pat used old system minus pronation; he was not using open stance, nor open grip, nor open wrist/passive arm to serve, etc. It is totally different than what I have been talking. There were numerous post that discussed old papers/videos; there is no point keep arguing/repeating. Let's focus on new things - Tektic's and Troicki's serve stance, for example; how significant their change of mind/practice is? Will they follow Venus Williams step to go back to old, closed stance, or will they start a new trend, opening the era to unify the forehand and serve into a single system (form wise plus technique wise)? Like to hear your opinion.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Note to all new TT posters. Oserver's techniques are for entertainment purposes only. Try them at your own risk. Better yet don't try them at all.
There is nothing that is out of the ordinary about either of those guys serves.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I like issues where progress can be made or issues resolved by viewing high speed videos. I have been mostly interested in the last tens of milliseconds before impact and how muscles were stretched to set that up. That is what I've studied the most and there are a lot of interesting things to see.
I read Elliott's work comparing the pin point stance and platform stance. There were not big differences in that study. He had some - what I would call - mild conclusions. One might be a little better for one reason and the other for another reason. I concluded that it was a difficult area of research for me - not high on my bucket list like the last milliseconds before impact.....
If you are interested in footwork I suggest that you study the stats of footwork to get an idea of what ATP servers are currently doing. I have not studied footwork very much and don't have an opinion. To get stats learn to pick servers completely randomly and not look for things, cherry pick, etc. The camera angles are very important and so you should only compare videos from the same camera angles and those camera angle should best show what you are trying to observe.
If you have foot positions to show, post a picture of Tektic's or Troiki's stance. Know the type of serve, kick, slice, flat. Good serve? Compare it to a typical stance platform or pin point stance. Look at a minimum of 10 servers to get a typical platform stance and 10 for pin point. If you see variety note that. Show foot positions at the same time of the service motion. But if it is unusual enough, it might stand out.
In the current forehand there is so much variety associated with strong forehands I have slowed down studying the variations. When a technique becomes exceptional in performance I'll study the videos more.
mbm0912
Hall of Fame
You're right! Troicki is definitely using this technique. Good find!
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