Open Topspin Serve

oserver

Professional
Made a video this evening to focus on topspin serves.

A long time held teaching dogmas have three big must do things -

A. one has to use continental grip
B. and a closed stance (either pin-point stance or platform stance), plus
C. an active arm and quick flexing of the wrist and elbow to make good topspin serves.

This video is to prove the above must do things are just myths. One can use open grip (Eastern forehand or semi-western grip) and open stance to make topspin serve just as effective as the conventional topspin serves. I'm also using passive arm to serve too, no deliberate pronation.

Racket used: Federer's old Ncode 90 model.


Welcome your critiques.
 
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Curious

G.O.A.T.
5 feet height at the baseline but doesn't reach the back fence! I was serving better 6 months after starting to learn tennis, I'm serious. And I was able to put myself in the camera view 2 weeks after starting tennis.:p
 

robin1982

Rookie
Seriously.... You want to devasted his shoulder?? His racket begins in his neck.. Its pure force, no relaxing at all. He cant get a crosscourt return because he walk to much to the left side..
Its what I said before, to much people here think they have knowledge about tennis. Other "professionals" will copy it and destroy good willing people's tennis!
Its a shame!!


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Curious

G.O.A.T.
Seriously.... You want to devasted his shoulder?? His racket begins in his neck.. Its pure force, no relaxing at all. He cant get a crosscourt return because he walk to much to the left side..
Its what I said before, to much people here think they have knowledge about tennis. Other "professionals" will copy it and destroy good willing people's tennis!
Its a shame!!


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You've seen this one yet?

 

FiReFTW

Legend
What the hell are you talking about? Who said you can't hit WHATEVER type of serve with WHATEVER type of grip or stance?

Thats plain ridicilous, you can hit any type of serve or shot or whatever with any type of grip, you can hit an extremely heavy topspin shot with continental and you can drive with extreme western grip, you can hit a topspin serve with a western forehand grip... you can do anything, in the end an end result on the ball is just the racquet face at contact and swingpath...

Its about what kind of grip or swingpath or body position is OPTIMAL in order to get the most spin and pace with the least amount of effort.

Your serves might have spin but they have absolutely no pace in them.

So what exactly do you want to prove here?
 

robin1982

Rookie
You can hit with almost every grip and stance spin but i you want no injury... And with the right tecnique you can get much more power and spin and you will get a quicker recovery. Nuff said...


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FiReFTW

Legend
I'm struggling visualizing that!:D

Heres some help

serve-wg.jpg


The racquet orientation and swingpath is such that you can hit a topspin serve with this if you actually hit a ball, I can go on the court and make a vid and also prove this but everyone can also try this and they will see its possible aswell, its only logical that it is. (BTW wrist is even more uncomfortable than I thought lol, its extremely uncomfortable)

Thats why OP's thread is ridicilous, as he claims that apparently people claim you can't hit a topspin serve with a eastern forehand and that he will prove everyone wrong! lol....

You can hit a topspin serve with even a full western grip

Is it efficient? NO
Does it offer great RHS? NO
Does it offer great pace and spin? NO
Is it friendly on the arm and wrist? HELL NO
Can you hit a topspin serve with it? WHY YES... YES YOU CAN
Is it at all reasonable to hit a topspin serve with a western forehand grip or even semi western or eastern forehand grip? NO, ITS NOT, FROM A MECHANICAL AND EFFICIENT PERSPECTIVE ITS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS LESS EFFICIENT.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Heres some help

serve-wg.jpg


The racquet orientation and swingpath is such that you can hit a topspin serve with this if you actually hit a ball, I can go on the court and make a vid and also prove this but everyone can also try this and they will see its possible aswell, its only logical that it is. (BTW wrist is even more uncomfortable than I thought lol, its extremely uncomfortable)

Thats why OP's thread is ridicilous, as he claims that apparently people claim you can't hit a topspin serve with a eastern forehand and that he will prove everyone wrong! lol....

You can hit a topspin serve with even a full western grip

Is it efficient? NO
Does it offer great RHS? NO
Does it offer great pace and spin? NO
Is it friendly on the arm and wrist? HELL NO
Can you hit a topspin serve with it? WHY YES... YES YOU CAN
Is it at all reasonable to hit a topspin serve with a western forehand grip or even semi western or eastern forehand grip? NO, ITS NOT, FROM A MECHANICAL AND EFFICIENT PERSPECTIVE ITS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS LESS EFFICIENT.
Your string is broken!
 

Pctopcool

Rookie
Heres some help

serve-wg.jpg


The racquet orientation and swingpath is such that you can hit a topspin serve with this if you actually hit a ball, I can go on the court and make a vid and also prove this but everyone can also try this and they will see its possible aswell, its only logical that it is. (BTW wrist is even more uncomfortable than I thought lol, its extremely uncomfortable)

Thats why OP's thread is ridicilous, as he claims that apparently people claim you can't hit a topspin serve with a eastern forehand and that he will prove everyone wrong! lol....

You can hit a topspin serve with even a full western grip

Is it efficient? NO
Does it offer great RHS? NO
Does it offer great pace and spin? NO
Is it friendly on the arm and wrist? HELL NO
Can you hit a topspin serve with it? WHY YES... YES YOU CAN
Is it at all reasonable to hit a topspin serve with a western forehand grip or even semi western or eastern forehand grip? NO, ITS NOT, FROM A MECHANICAL AND EFFICIENT PERSPECTIVE ITS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS LESS EFFICIENT.


Didn't expect a bedroom photo on this forum;)
 

vex

Legend
Those serves aren't good. Like, you'd be better off just pancake dinking em over. Ain't got no pace or kick anyway. No point in swiping for nothing.

This thread is now about how going to nationals is antithetical to your development. DISCUSS
 

Knox

Semi-Pro
What makes you think this serve is effective?

Pretty much every user here could easily destroy it.

Hell, I know 11 year olds who would easily destroy it.
 

oserver

Professional

Pat advised a temporary solution for open grip servers. He is more open minded than a lot of coaches.

One disagreement I have through. One don't need to switch to continental grip to serve professionally.

Professional players are starting to use open stance to serve, and some are abandon the pronation on serve too. I believe using open grip to serve is on its way too.
 

Knox

Semi-Pro
I've used Pats advice with students who didn't want to switch to an advanced serve. Works really well.
 

oserver

Professional
What makes you think this serve is effective?

Pretty much every user here could easily destroy it.

Hell, I know 11 year olds who would easily destroy it.
"What makes you think this serve is effective?"

Getting the ball at shoulder high behind the base line, that's all.
 

oserver

Professional
I've used Pats advice with students who didn't want to switch to an advanced serve. Works really well.
Go one step further so they don't need change grip, nor stance, but still can step up to advanced serves. Do you need help?
 

willeric

Rookie
Looking at the still at 29 seconds in the first video, your shoulders are very closed. It's 90 degrees from the deuce court. You are just arming a serve with a forehand grip. I've seen 100s of 3.0 - 3.5 players with this serve. You could make 4.0 with this serve if the rest of your game is consistent, however your serve is going to be a liability.
 

Steady Eddy

Legend
I've used Pats advice with students who didn't want to switch to an advanced serve. Works really well.
I'll admit that I use that serve, and I switched to it when I first saw this video.

Used to believe that if I didn't have a high contact point that the serve couldn't go in. Not so. At 70 mph, or about 105 ft/sec, gravity bends the trajectory enough to bring even a flat serve in. A couple of other advantages to a low toss: the ball bounces low and the returner has to return it from knee height, the ball spends less time in the air giving the returner less time, it's easier to execute a low toss and sun and wind are less of a problem.

Remember, Pat says that it's a good serve for people who only play twice a week at best. I'm lucky to even play once a week. ATP players play a very different game from we recreational players. We all need to be realistic.
 

Friedman Whip

Professional
Hitting topspin serve with Western forehand grip?
I'm struggling visualizing that!:D
My initial reaction too. But then when you consider that a Western forehand grip is more or less also an Eastern backhand it could be done. With the other side of the racket face.
 
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jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Heres some help

serve-wg.jpg


The racquet orientation and swingpath is such that you can hit a topspin serve with this if you actually hit a ball, I can go on the court and make a vid and also prove this but everyone can also try this and they will see its possible aswell, its only logical that it is. (BTW wrist is even more uncomfortable than I thought lol, its extremely uncomfortable)

Thats why OP's thread is ridicilous, as he claims that apparently people claim you can't hit a topspin serve with a eastern forehand and that he will prove everyone wrong! lol....

You can hit a topspin serve with even a full western grip

Is it efficient? NO
Does it offer great RHS? NO
Does it offer great pace and spin? NO
Is it friendly on the arm and wrist? HELL NO
Can you hit a topspin serve with it? WHY YES... YES YOU CAN
Is it at all reasonable to hit a topspin serve with a western forehand grip or even semi western or eastern forehand grip? NO, ITS NOT, FROM A MECHANICAL AND EFFICIENT PERSPECTIVE ITS A TERRIBLE IDEA TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS LESS EFFICIENT.
You should probably cut the strings

Also... Barcelona? Ewwww
 

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
Looking at the still at 29 seconds in the first video, your shoulders are very closed. It's 90 degrees from the deuce court. You are just arming a serve with a forehand grip. I've seen 100s of 3.0 - 3.5 players with this serve. You could make 4.0 with this serve if the rest of your game is consistent, however your serve is going to be a liability.
Yeah, OP is a computer rated 4.0

The rest of his game seems fine, but the serve is... something else
 

oserver

Professional
The absolute madman, he actually did it. He brought PVC pipes to a tennis court in a club. Wow
"He brought PVC pipes to a tennis court in a club. Wow", crazy maybe, I don't need to do that. The club have those PVC frames already;).
 

Knox

Semi-Pro
"What makes you think this serve is effective?"

Getting the ball at shoulder high behind the base line, that's all.

I see, yeah by competitive standards that's not an effective serve at all. Like I said, easily EASILY destroyed.

I showed your serve to my top junior, he said you wouldn't win a single point on him with it.
 
D

Deleted member 754093

Guest
Is there a variation of the technique that doesn’t make me look like an 8 year old girl?
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
There were two one-bouncers. I missed 3 feet out ones. Can you point them out so I can have a close look?

I don't see any going IN and hitting the wall on a bounce,
Most looked OUT. Maybe it's the camera angle.
You point out which one went IN and hit the wall. Just give one time-stamp .
 

vex

Legend
"What makes you think this serve is effective?"

Getting the ball at shoulder high behind the base line, that's all.
Welp the fact that it has zero pace and bounces more times before reaching the backstop than a ladies 2nd serve in 6.0 mixed doubles.... that tells me its not helping you do much of anything. Its moving so slowly that most players will have the hand eye coordination to return it cross court with interest.

Learning how to properly hit a kick serve IS hard no doubt. Its probably the most technically difficult shot in tennis to develop from scratch. But if you're a good player u can do it. You're wasting your time on this dead end. If, as someone else said you're a 4.0 despite this serve you could probably develop a legit serve in 4ish months of practice.
 
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oserver

Professional
Your serves might have spin but they have absolutely no pace in them.

So what exactly do you want to prove here?
It's not might; they are topspin serve by any standard. Ask your coach to tell you it's yes or no.

I want to prove the 3C is not the only way for serve. 3Os - the forehand ways, are alternatives, perhaps better.
 

oserver

Professional
Learning how to properly hit a kick serve IS hard no doubt.
No, not that hard if you look at my serves. They are more natural, no convoluted moves, simple to learn. On the contrary, the conventional kick serves, like you said, IS hard to learn.
 
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