Open Topspin Serve

[Shroud]

Ask the coach to give Mektic and Troicki a lesson to see if they will switch back to closed stance serves -

Nikola Mektic

Viktor Troicki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llcFOZMQ72Y

What time stamp in the doubles vid. I didnt see anything open though i didnt watch real time

And Troicki is your revolution??? Really??

And quit changing the subject. You said the Fh evolved to be open stance only and for some reason you think the forehand is a model for the serve. That vid showed conclusively that your major premise that the modern fh is all open is wrong. So all your papers fall like a house of cards.

This is an epic case of blinders and confirmation bias and you can’t even argue logically. Its super sad. If you would put this much effort into learning a proper serve you would serve much better

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Pathetic, we were talking about FH stances and grips for a while, then you suddenly jump back to serve. Just shows how you purposley confuse the conversation all the time.

How else would the thread get up to 250 posts? Oops, 252.

 

[oserver]

What time stamp in the doubles vid. I didnt see anything open though i didnt watch real time

And Troicki is your revolution??? Really??

And quit changing the subject. You said the Fh evolved to be open stance only and for some reason you think the forehand is a model for the serve. That vid showed conclusively that your major premise that the modern fh is all open is wrong. So all your papers fall like a house of cards.

This is an epic case of blinders and confirmation bias and you can’t even argue logically. Its super sad. If you would put this much effort into learning a proper serve you would serve much better

" I didnt see anything open though i didnt watch real time", that tells your level of stroke analysis!

 

[Shroud]

" I didnt see anything open though i didnt watch real time", that tells your level of stroke analysis!

Time stamp?

 

[mcs1970]

If you would put this much effort into learning a proper serve you would serve much better

He probably did and couldn't cut it, which is why he might have gone down this road.

 

[oserver]

Time stamp?

I can put timestamps but it's best for you to try find the open stance frames. That way you learn some stroke analysis skills.

 

[oserver]

He probably did and couldn't cut it, which is why he might have gone down this road.

My Forehand Serves (3O serve) is much better than my 3C serves. It's not a probable event, it's a fact.

 

[Shroud]

I can put timestamps but it's best for you to try find the open stance frames. That way you learn some stroke analysis skills.

Figures you would hold back wonder what you are hiding. Those two vids I posted of your revolution guy are closed stances so maybe you should abandon your “stroke analysis”

 

[Shroud]

My Forehand Serves (3O serve) is much better than my 3C serves. It's not a probable event, it's a fact.

Knox talked about that. You cant extrapolate from your own experience. Espicially if you struggled with the traditional serve. There is a syndrome for that type of delusion

 

[oserver]

Figures you would hold back wonder what you are hiding. Those two vids I posted of your revolution guy are closed stances so maybe you should abandon your “stroke analysis”

Haha, you still cannot find them. No one but you who disputed the fact of these two players used open stance to serve!

 

[Shroud]

Haha, you still cannot find them. No one but you who disputed the fact of these two players used open stance to serve!

As I said I fast forwarded through it. So yes I saw none. Give a time stamp. How hard is it.

 

[oserver]

As I said I fast forwarded through it. So yes I saw none. Give a time stamp. How hard is it.

Ok, Mektic video at 0:45. He is stepping into an open stance to serve, not a pin-point stance as other pin-point stance players do.

 

[WesternCK]

Ok, Mektic video at 0:45. He is stepping into an open stance to serve, not a pin-point stance as other pin-point stance players do.

These are not open stance serves. I serve the same way and ironically when pros serve this way, most experts say that they are doing things incorrectly because they are actually losing some separation angle and angular momentum by opening up their body too early. You actually have things backwards.

Here’s my second serve:

This is not open stance because on open stance the majority of the weight is loaded on the dominant leg. On a serve, and even in Troicki and Metkic’s cases, most of the weight is on their left foot prior to exploding. Even if it’s 50/50, it’s still far more than we would see on an open stance forehand where once again we would see most of the weight loaded on the right leg rather than the left.

The distance between the right leg and the left is also much further apart on an actual open stance.

These are not open stance, but a variance of the pinpoint stance.

Here is a look at some (mostly) open stance forehand shots, albeit lazy ones, as well as a few square stance shots mixed in. They are far different than the way I was using my legs during my serve, even though my right foot comes across the left during my pinpoint stance.

 

[WesternCK]

This is all without getting into the fact that they are still sideways and are certainly not using an eastern forehand grip.

 

[rogerroger917]

All this has been pointed out dozens of times. Oserver just starts a new thread so he does not have to answer these issues.

This is all without getting into the fact that they are still sideways and are certainly not using an eastern forehand grip.

 

[Shroud]

These are not open stance serves. I serve the same way and ironically when pros serve this way, most experts say that they are doing things incorrectly because they are actually losing some separation angle and angular momentum by opening up their body too early. You actually have things backwards.

Here’s my second serve:

This is not open stance because on open stance the majority of the weight is loaded on the dominant leg. On a serve, and even in Troicki and Metkic’s cases, most of the weight is on their left foot prior to exploding. Even if it’s 50/50, it’s still far more than we would see on an open stance forehand where once again we would see most of the weight loaded on the right leg rather than the left.

The distance between the right leg and the left is also much further apart on an actual open stance.

These are not open stance, but a variance of the pinpoint stance.

Here is a look at some (mostly) open stance forehand shots, albeit lazy ones, as well as a few square stance shots mixed in. They are far different than the way I was using my legs during my serve, even though my right foot comes across the left during my pinpoint stance.

Nice post and nice serve!

And besides the weight balance I have to search but I recall reading that it wasnt the direction of the feet that determined the stance but the orientation of the two legs to the net that determined the stance. Said another way you can have an open stance with one toe pointing to the side fence as long as the line between the feet is parallel to the net. Diagonal to the net is semi open and perpendicular is closed.

Oserver uses semi open himself

 

[oserver]

These are not open stance serves. I serve the same way and ironically when pros serve this way, most experts say that they are doing things incorrectly because they are actually losing some separation angle and angular momentum by opening up their body too early. You actually have things backwards.

Here’s my second serve:

This is not open stance because on open stance the majority of the weight is loaded on the dominant leg. On a serve, and even in Troicki and Metkic’s cases, most of the weight is on their left foot prior to exploding. Even if it’s 50/50, it’s still far more than we would see on an open stance forehand where once again we would see most of the weight loaded on the right leg rather than the left.

The distance between the right leg and the left is also much further apart on an actual open stance.

These are not open stance, but a variance of the pinpoint stance.

Here is a look at some (mostly) open stance forehand shots, albeit lazy ones, as well as a few square stance shots mixed in. They are far different than the way I was using my legs during my serve, even though my right foot comes across the left during my pinpoint stance.

Stance is about the position of feet so you should not mix it with the weight (center of the gravity), or the toss position, or the grip or any other things of a serve. If a player's two feet is open at the time of exploding up, the stance is open. How sideway or parallel his shoulders toward the net doesn't count toward stance.

 

[oserver]

This is all without getting into the fact that they are still sideways and are certainly not using an eastern forehand grip.

Focus, focus on stance. Grip is another matter.

 

[oserver]

Oserver uses semi open himself

Mostly open, sometimes semi-open.

 

[Stretchy Man]

My Forehand Serves (3O serve) is much better than my 3C serves. It's not a probable event, it's a fact.

I don't think you know the meaning of the word "fact". To be a fact it has to be proven with evidence. Can you show us a couple of your videos to prove your serve has improved using either your WET Serve™ or Forehand Serve™ or 3O Serve™ or Passive Serve™?

 

[oserver]

I don't think you know the meaning of the word "fact". To be a fact it has to be proven with evidence. Can you show us a couple of your videos to prove your serve has improved using either your WET Serve™ or Forehand Serve™ or 3O Serve™ or Passive Serve™?

Sure, I can be banned for posting pure tennis videos on the subject matter. It happened before but I don't care.

Here are two recent ones with WETS and passive arm -

Older one with conventional active arm/flexing wrist/pronation -

 

[BlueB]

Haha, you still cannot find them. No one but you who disputed the fact of these two players used open stance to serve!

No, you used something as an example, so you are supposed to tell us where to look for most typical.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

 

[WesternCK]

Nice post and nice serve!

And besides the weight balance I have to search but I recall reading that it wasnt the direction of the feet that determined the stance but the orientation of the two legs to the net that determined the stance. Said another way you can have an open stance with one toe pointing to the side fence as long as the line between the feet is parallel to the net. Diagonal to the net is semi open and perpendicular is closed.

Oserver uses semi open himself

Thanks Shround. I agree with the fact that the feet are not parallel and therefore more semi-open than anything on Metkic’s serve. People also use a somewhat more squared stance on the deuce side when compared to the ad side, which means we already know there are a variety of stances on the serve. None of this changes the fact that both Troicki and Metkic are pinpoint stance servers, and that’s the stance they should be classified as.

Stance is about the position of feet so you should not mix it with the weight (center of the gravity), or the toss position, or the grip or any other things of a serve. If a player's two feet is open at the time of exploding up, the stance is open. How sideway or parallel his shoulders toward the net doesn't count toward stance.

I’m aware what stance is but you’ve combined all these things together. You’ve stated that you’ve taken the main benefits from Federer’s forehand and applied them to the serve. One of the main benefits for anyone using open stance is the angular momentum generated after loading on their right leg. In no way, shape or form is that what’s happening on these serves. They are mostly loading on their left leg.

The right leg on an effective open stance is also much further away from the body. This allows for more knee bend. In this way, I think that left foot orientation actually can have an impact on how much energy we can produce through the kinetic chain. For me personally, if my left foot is pointing somewhat towards the net and my right foot is pointing sideways on an open stance, this is when I’ll get the most energy. If my left foot is more sideways, as it always will be on the serve and the right foot is less so, I’ll produce less energy.

These factors may not matter when proclaiming a stance is one versus the other by defining them, but it does matter when deciding the optimal way to hit a shot most effectively. You’ve stated that open stance will be even more effective than closed but these service stances would be a weak way to hit a forehand, period. These servers themselves, as well as myself, would also largely benefit by not coming around so far with the right foot.

What you’ve found here is nothing more than two pros who likely could have their serving technique improved rather than emulated. They likely won’t however, because as far as they ar concerned they are still hitting a pinpoint stance, and This is one of those things that’s about comfort level and balance rather than focusing on the 5mph difference it may have on the outcome.

 

[oserver]

They likely won’t however, because as far as they ar concerned they are still hitting a pinpoint stance, and This is one of those things that’s about comfort level and balance rather than focusing on the 5mph difference it may have on the outcome.

Look their older serves last year or older then you'll know the differences. If they used pin-point stance in the video, the right foot should step behind the left foot. You don't see that in the video. I called this as "open stance with a step" or "semi-open stance with a step" depend on how wide the feet are apart/how big the angle between the feet line and the ball path. Wish someone come up a better name for it.

 

[Stretchy Man]

Sure, I can be banned for posting pure tennis videos on the subject matter. It happened before but I don't care.

Here are two recent ones with WETS and passive arm -

Older one with conventional active arm/flexing wrist/pronation -

Apart from your stance, I'm struggling to see any difference. If your new serving techniques were revolutionary, we should be seeing dramatic improvements after 4 years but we are not. What exactly has changed?

 

[pabletion]

I dunno about you guys, but I enjoy reading OSERVER's post imagining he's talking just like Leslie Chow from The Hangover.

Toodaloo, marafakaaaaaaaaaaaaaas!