Opinion: Marty Fish needs to be fired immediately

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Unbelievable.

If he took 5 players, then he’d have somewhat of a case. At least then he can say “I picked who I thought was best”.

But he PURPOSELY took 4. He genuinely took 4 guys to the finals. Against Italy, probably the most stacked team in the field.

And lo and behold, we lost 2-1, Italy clinching in the doubles.

Whilst the No.1 doubles player in the world sits and watches.

And what sealed it was his post match comments. “We would’ve lost no matter who we put in doubles”. Are you serious? The WORLD NUMBER ONE DOUBLES PLAYER wouldn’t have made a difference in DOUBLES?

You put your personal beef aside to WIN. Fish clearly didn’t want to win. He’s therefore going against the interests of the Davis Cup squad and the USTA. An immediate sacking is in order.
 

NoleFam

Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed. He most likely will be fired now after that ridiculous decision to not put Ram in the team, who is the #1 doubles player.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
I agree he should be fired for that decision but I'm so out of the loop about this, why did he exclude Ram in the first place? What is this "beef" between them i keep seeing on sites? None of them talk about what started the initial issue.
I don’t think this beef should be relevant in this kind of selection.
 

Don Felder

Semi-Pro
Fish is a dick. All his moaning over the years really rubbed me the wrong way. He’s a phony, through and through.

Ram has ALWAYS been a class act. I grew up in the Mid-west region a couple years younger than him, and watched him dominate the field. Unlike most kids, he was never an arrogant pr1ck at tournaments and what not.
 

D-Lite

Hall of Fame
The US lineup screams clique. Fritz, Paul and Tiafoe are the same gen. Sock I've no idea, he's a good doubles player but it's not as if he's also there to step up in the singles as even if it goes 3 sets he generally loses nowadays. Ram is the #1 doubles player and won the YEC and USO at the back end of this year so he's not just a top doubles player, he's an extremely in form doubles player. There must be friction between him and Fish or one of/some of the team. I like a lot of the US team on the surface but if there are petty antics going on when representing your country then it's always going to end up being self destructive. Hopefully some more clarity is shed on this issue.
 

fed1

Professional
The US lineup screams clique. Fritz, Paul and Tiafoe are the same gen. Sock I've no idea, he's a good doubles player but it's not as if he's also there to step up in the singles as even if it goes 3 sets he generally loses nowadays. Ram is the #1 doubles player and won the YEC and USO at the back end of this year so he's not just a top doubles player, he's an extremely in form doubles player. There must be friction between him and Fish or one of/some of the team. I like a lot of the US team on the surface but if there are petty antics going on when representing your country then it's always going to end up being self destructive. Hopefully some more clarity is shed on this issue.
Tommy Paul did himself no favors by going on twitter and pretty much embarrassing himself as he pretty much eluded that tennis fans were morons for questioning the decision. A decision, quite frankly, that there hasn’t been an intelligent response for.
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
Rajeev Ram is an American of Indian origin. I hope his exclusion had nothing to do with it.

This could be highly speculative, based purely on my anecdotal evidence, but as an American of Indian origin myself I feel its harder to be seen as 'American' compared to other Asians in the tennis community.

I've played USTA matches in many clubs where the antipathy towards me, a brown-skinned guy has been palpable; my doubles partner who was of Vietnamese origin never got anywhere near the same kind of treatment and he told me me saw the disparity too; it easier perhaps to be seen as a FOB based on the number of Indians that have come to the US in recent years in the IT industry.

Anyway, I don't know what the specific circumstances of excluding a successful doubles player were, and I have no way of knowing if his race was involved, but nonetheless I think it was worth mentioning...
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I like Mardy, but FWIW I disagree with his frat boy 4 person line up, with Ram being the OBVIOUS dubs specialist they SHOULD have had. I like Tommy, but he had no business being out there instead of Ram for that last dubs, and it is BS of Mardy to say they would have lost anyway. That type of CYA statement was sad to read.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Tommy Paul did himself no favors by going on twitter and pretty much embarrassing himself as he pretty much eluded that tennis fans were morons for questioning the decision. A decision, quite frankly, that there hasn’t been an intelligent response for.
Tommy Paul is the tennis equivalent of a sneeze. He should be saying nothing to fans after losing.
 

ichaseballs

Semi-Pro
being a good player does not mean you will be a good captain or coach...

andy roddick seems to be pretty neutral and objective. can we ask andy next time?
 

atatu

Legend
Rajeev Ram is an American of Indian origin. I hope his exclusion had nothing to do with it.

This could be highly speculative, based purely on my anecdotal evidence, but as an American of Indian origin myself I feel its harder to be seen as 'American' compared to other Asians in the tennis community.

I've played USTA matches in many clubs where the antipathy towards me, a brown-skinned guy has been palpable; my doubles partner who was of Vietnamese origin never got anywhere near the same kind of treatment and he told me me saw the disparity too; it easier perhaps to be seen as a FOB based on the number of Indians that have come to the US in recent years in the IT industry.

Anyway, I don't know what the specific circumstances of excluding a successful doubles player were, and I have no way of knowing if his race was involved, but nonetheless I think it was worth mentioning...
That's weird, and I'm saying this as a half asian guy, even in Texas, which I don't consider to be the most progressive place in the world, I never detect any anti-Indian vibes on the tennis court when I play with or against those guys. The junior scene here is somewhat dominated by Americans of Indian origin and there's kind of an aura of respect for those kids because everyone thinks they work much harder that the other kids, etc.
 

mavsman149

Hall of Fame
Fish is a dick. All his moaning over the years really rubbed me the wrong way. He’s a phony, through and through.

Ram has ALWAYS been a class act. I grew up in the Mid-west region a couple years younger than him, and watched him dominate the field. Unlike most kids, he was never an arrogant pr1ck at tournaments and what not.
used to see him all the time at Carmel Racquet Club, he’s a great guy. He’s still very involved in Indianapolis tennis
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Rajeev Ram is an American of Indian origin. I hope his exclusion had nothing to do with it.

This could be highly speculative, based purely on my anecdotal evidence, but as an American of Indian origin myself I feel its harder to be seen as 'American' compared to other Asians in the tennis community.

I've played USTA matches in many clubs where the antipathy towards me, a brown-skinned guy has been palpable; my doubles partner who was of Vietnamese origin never got anywhere near the same kind of treatment and he told me me saw the disparity too; it easier perhaps to be seen as a FOB based on the number of Indians that have come to the US in recent years in the IT industry.

Anyway, I don't know what the specific circumstances of excluding a successful doubles player were, and I have no way of knowing if his race was involved, but nonetheless I think it was worth mentioning...
I think given the MAGA leanings of the vast majority of white American athletes, this isn't a farfetched thing. I said the same in the other thread--just a bad look to exclude Ram when you've taken a bunch of young white guys too. Although Tiafoe made the team so I'm not sure how hard we should push the racial angle.

IMO it seems more personal than political, but who can tell.
 

ktx

Semi-Pro
I think if there is any discrimination against Ram here it’s because of his age. Mardy Fish just showing himself to be a clown. If you’re going to make a call like this just own it and don’t throw your players under the bus.
 

ichaseballs

Semi-Pro
indian/pakistani guys (my brown brothers) get a hard time in tennis... if this happens at the rec level, you bet it happens on the tour.
i doubt marty is that type of person, but the group never befriended ram which to me is the problem. diversity should be celebrated. and eating hummus and falafel does not count...
 
It's just incredibly dumb in any situation not to leave yourself all available options. You have five slots, fill them. Nobody says you're necessarily going to play all five guys as the tie unfolds - but all five sure as hell ought to be there.

Agree with OP, this is fireable on its own, immediately.
 

D-Lite

Hall of Fame
It seems that Ram was not selected as Fish felt he did not fit in with the clique's vibe, and that as long as he had Sock as their main doubles player, he could slot one of Tiafoe, Fritz or Paul in with Sock and create a solid enough team as they'd have chemistry. There are no excuses for this, but I can see how it happens when there are people who believe a top 40 singles player can stand in for a top 5 doubles player and probably do better than them. We see it on tour that singles players can beat doubles specialists a fair bit, but there are plenty of doubles focussed teams who still beat singles players dipping into doubles on the odd occasion. I just don't see how you can exclude someone who's just won the YEC and USO in doubles. What was Sock doing there? They had 3 higher ranked singles players so I don't see why he was selected as their #1 doubles player. Ram and Sock have also won doubles rubbers in the lead up to these finals against fairly high ranked doubles specialists, so include him and have them 2 as your solid doubles pairing.
 

chic

Professional
are you sure this is because of your race
When I was in college (~10yrs ago) our #1 beat a high ranked #1 on a ranked d3. The match score was like 1-8 to the other team.

Multiple (grand?)parents and community members who were there for the other team congratulated him after with comments about it's good to see an 'american' winning.

Other kid was from the USA, I think even from the same state. My impression was bad blood because he dethroned the (white) #2. But it was just so inappropriate and in the open we were shocked.

Which could all be apropos of nothing, but I've definitely seen brown players get some eyebrow raising treatment for what seems like no reason. Never with enough context to involve myself though.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
When I was in college (~10yrs ago) our #1 beat a high ranked #1 on a ranked d3. The match score was like 1-8 to the other team.

Multiple (grand?)parents and community members who were there for the other team congratulated him after with comments about it's good to see an 'american' winning.

Other kid was from the USA, I think even from the same state. My impression was bad blood because he dethroned the (white) #2. But it was just so inappropriate and in the open we were shocked.

Which could all be apropos of nothing, but I've definitely seen brown players get some eyebrow raising treatment for what seems like no reason. Never with enough context to involve myself though.
Is tennis a very multicultural sport in the US?

In Australia tennis is a very WASPy sport, would be quite unusual to run across too many players of colour
 

GhostOfNKDM

Hall of Fame
That's weird, and I'm saying this as a half asian guy, even in Texas, which I don't consider to be the most progressive place in the world, I never detect any anti-Indian vibes on the tennis court when I play with or against those guys. The junior scene here is somewhat dominated by Americans of Indian origin and there's kind of an aura of respect for those kids because everyone thinks they work much harder that the other kids, etc.
That's heartening to know. Rich older people at country clubs are a different demographic altogether with a different set of viees.
 

Jack the Hack

Hall of Fame
Ehh who cares. We are terrible at tennis for the last 20 years. . Haven't watched one Davis Cup since '95. LOL.



That's too bad. That means you missed the US making the finals in 1997 and 2004, and then winning the DC championship at home in Portland in 2007. Roddick and the Bryan Brothers had a nice run in Davis Cup back then when it still mattered. :)

With Italy banged up (Sinner and Berrettini out), Fritz playing well, and the US having two of the best doubles players in the world available, they should have won this one. Horrible decision to leave Ram off the team, especially since he was willing to play, was in Europe already, and had just won the WTF. Fish needs to go.

(Pretty disappointing comments and play from Paul as well.)
 

chazz

Rookie
It will be interesting to see who gets hired as the next captain. Also will be interesting to see the excuses made by Fish's "guys" as to why they're unable to play if a more low key captain is chosen.
 

Don Felder

Semi-Pro
Is tennis a very multicultural sport in the US?

In Australia tennis is a very WASPy sport, would be quite unusual to run across too many players of colour
Asians and Indians were all over my junior and college scene. I always thought the Indian players in particular had a tendency to play really smooth, classic games. Textbook strokes, hard to beat.
 

Bambooman

Hall of Fame
Tommy Paul did himself no favors by going on twitter and pretty much embarrassing himself as he pretty much eluded that tennis fans were morons for questioning the decision. A decision, quite frankly, that there hasn’t been an intelligent response for.
You can't elude people if you're on twitter.....
 

chic

Professional
Is tennis a very multicultural sport in the US?

In Australia tennis is a very WASPy sport, would be quite unusual to run across too many players of colour
IME lots of WASPy culture, but in the US many Asians and Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani fit into that subcategory as tech workers assimilate and emulate American wealth norms.

At the Jr level up to about 30yrs old they mix in that group. Then many older crowd who play within their ethnic community. Not totally exclusive by any means but the primary group a lot of brown/Asian people I know hit with share a non-english first language and play in that community.

Also a lot of interest in the black community but less club, more park tennis in the areas I've been in. My impression is the Williams sisters had a big influence on this growth and coco has helped keep that flame going (probably Blake, Tiafoe, Townsend as well when they make a run.)

---

All that to say on the whole it's a WASPy white sport, but their are large sub-communities of color and it's blending more amongst the younger gens.
 
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Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Is tennis a very multicultural sport in the US?

In Australia tennis is a very WASPy sport, would be quite unusual to run across too many players of colour
In my area (DC Metro), the UTR tournaments I play in are basically all "Asian" (mainly Chinese or Indian). To the point that it's almost weird to see "white" kids, and I'm usually scouting out their parents to check for European accents.

This is a diverse area, but I haven't thought of tennis as a WASPy sport for some time.

I went to a prep HS and all of the really WASPy kids played soccer, hockey, squash, golf or lacrosse. Tennis was not well regarded, and many of our players were actually Jewish.

So for a long time I have thought of tennis as the gateway sport for people who aspire to WASPy wealth trappings (first Jews in the 60s, then Chinese/Korean and Indians from the 1970s onwards)

If your parents wanted to move up in the world, you played tennis. But the real WASP types moved on from it a long time ago.
 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
For whatever reason Marty fish personally hates Ram.. i don't think he'll be captain for long to be honest
The only scenario that makes sense to me is that Sock told Fish he didn't want to play with Ram

Fish has made it clear that Sock is his first-choice doubles player, which means he would have some say in who his partner is. Sock and Ram aren't massively complimentary players (e.g. they both prefer playing in the ad court). When they play together they have to make compromises (and Ram has enough stature that Sock wouldn't get everything his own way). As a result, they have been successful - but probably not as successful as you'd expect given their individual abilities

It is possible Sock insisted that Fish give him a partner who would let him play the way he wanted to play. This would explain why Fish kept making oblique references to 'team harmony' when asked about the decision to exclude Ram.

otherwise I cannot think of any logical reason for pairing Sock with Paul instead of Ram
 
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socallefty

Legend
Why is Sock on the team and why are they looking for players who fit in with him? His doubles ranking is #43. We have Rajeev Ram (#3) who won the USO/ATP finals recently and Austin Krajicek ranked #10 who also played in the ATP finals. Shouldn’t they have brought both of those guys?

Sock hasn’t won anything of significance in doubles for a long time - he last won Slams in 2018.
 

atatu

Legend
In my area (DC Metro), the UTR tournaments I play in are basically all "Asian" (mainly Chinese or Indian). To the point that it's almost weird to see "white" kids, and I'm usually scouting out their parents to check for European accents.

This is a diverse area, but I haven't thought of tennis as a WASPy sport for some time.

I went to a prep HS and all of the really WASPy kids played soccer, hockey, squash, golf or lacrosse. Tennis was not well regarded, and many of our players were actually Jewish.

So for a long time I have thought of tennis as the gateway sport for people who aspire to WASPy wealth trappings (first Jews in the 60s, then Chinese/Korean and Indians from the 1970s onwards)

If your parents wanted to move up in the world, you played tennis. But the real WASP types moved on from it a long time ago.
In Austin in early 2000's there was a local Indian kid who was recruited to Harvard to play tennis. He ended up playing #1 for them, both singles and doubles and was an All American. He played the tour for a couple of years and was top 500 in doubles then he got a wall street job. Since that time there has been a noticeable influx of Indian kids playing junior tennis in this area and although we haven't seen anyone reach the same level of success there have been a number who went on to play college tennis.
 
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