Opponent stands way back @ the fence to return serves.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by TimeToPlaySets, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    How do you adjust?
    Or do you just keep blasting your same old 1st serve?
     
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  2. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Defenatly not. Some pace off and bigger angles for sure. That also will have an impact, if he just shows being in the back and actually steps in onto the baseline while you serve.

    Two reasons actually. I cannot keep up serving big for the whole of a match and variance will make and keep the opp second guessing.




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    #2
  3. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    First of all, why do you feel you have to adjust? Is it because he's returning your serve easily?

    I definitely agree with @Pete Player. Another thing to try is hitting serves short. And since you only care about winning [for now], try the dreaded UH serve.

    The only thing likely NOT to work is hitting harder.
     
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  4. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    This is a hypothetical.
    Yes, let's assume he's returning your serves easily.
     
    #4
  5. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    If not underhanded, how does one hit a serve short?
    You reduce RHS and swing slower?
    For a short serve, do you serve a topKick or a flat?

    When I try to serve short, I default to a slower RHS 2nd serve.
    But, that topspin helps the opponent.
    There has to be a better way.

    I would 100% serve underhanded, (and I think the pros are STUPID not to)
    but, for club rec tennis, I don't want to hear ******** from brats.
     
    #5
  6. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Slicing with high revs and landing halfway down the service box.


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    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
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  7. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    Multiple ways. 2 that come to mind:
    - Dink [waiter tray, flat]
    - Use more topspin and adjust the trajectory of the ball so there is a sharper arc. RHS should be the same as any other serve

    I'm not very good at serving short because I never practice it.

    The brats' opinions are irrelevant if you only care about winning and beautiful strokes mean nothing.
     
    #7
  8. mcs1970

    mcs1970 Professional

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    If an opponent is standing way back near the fence the server is in the top 1% of the tennis playing population. Such a server will have enough control of his serve to know how to mix in different types of serves. Also if the ball is approaching the fence on one bounce unless you are a top pro you are not handling that speed easily.

    At our levels instead of pondering over hypotheticals like these it is better to parctice control of our serves. A lot of rec players can't place the serve where they want unless they take a lot off.
     
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  9. Pete Player

    Pete Player Hall of Fame

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    Last game I played, I started serving close to totally flat body serves. When he adjusted, I put in some side spin and got him both moving and being faulty positioned.

    Maximum of two similar serves in a row. When he started coming in more, I added some pace, but kept hitting the corners, which I did with the slices before that.

    So, he never got into, what was coming next and shanked most of his returns out.


    ——————————
    On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
    #9
  10. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    Waiter's tray (female serve)
    is the most obvious answer to my question, yet I totally overlooked it.

    Topspin is the antithesis of this scenario, since it helps the ball kick higher and reach the deep opponent.
    This needs the exact opposite of topspin.
     
    #10
  11. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    TS also allows you to sharpen the arc and make the ball land shorter so it's a matter of how the two net [no pun intended] out.
     
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  12. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    You know, you're right.

    Who can complain about an underhanded serve?
    It's like a gift (but it's anything but. Even pros can't handle underhanded serves)

    You're going to complain that I am beating you with an underhanded serve?
    That's like telling the cops your pot has been stolen.

    I will try both.
    Underhanded and waiter's dink.
    I will report the results after the match
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
    #12
  13. OnTheLine

    OnTheLine Hall of Fame

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    With you being a lefty, why not develop that devastating lefty slice serve? Often hits more shallow in the box and many of us righties really hate it! Would be a great changeup especially if they are getting used to your kick serve.
     
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  14. Shroud

    Shroud G.O.A.T.

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    This is the serve you are talking about right?

     
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  15. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    I started the match serving very weakly, including warm ups. This had the guy in shallow.

    As soon as I served one big serve he backed up to the tarp, just as I was told he does.

    SO, For the rest of the match I had to cycle between top dink second serving when he was back and then back to flat First serves once he was back at the Baseline
     
    #15
  16. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    I've tried that wicked slice serve but I can't do it. I pretty much get no sideways motion at all... Plus it basically goes right into the net.... I need to take some serious coaching to learn that serve.... For now I'm going to focus on other aspects of the game

    People talk like it's just some easy obvious thing... Like like oh you're righty? you just do a flat 140 miles an hour serve.... easy-peasy
     
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  17. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, what was the video about? I was too distracted by the Hungarian.

    But seriously, for a Lefty, a hard slice is a requirement. It is so contrary to the motion most players are used to. My son can't do it and he's a Lefty. So he leaves a lot on the table. If he misses his first serve that comes in mid-90s with movement, he hits a nice kicker... which I crush back. Just need to stand back, be patient and wait till it comes down.

    Most people miss-hit kickers because they are impatient and tries to hit it like a topspin or slice-top.

    A kicker can work well for a Lefty IF they can hit a good slice and a good topspin. You will keep your opponent totally off balance.
     
    #17
  18. Traffic

    Traffic Hall of Fame

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    I don't adjust. If I'm hitting great to cause him to adjust his stance, then I keep serving the same.

    If his adjustment causes him to return rockets back all the time, then I'll start hitting off speed spin serves.
     
    #18
  19. Stretchy Man

    Stretchy Man Semi-Pro

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    I think it's time you learned how to hit a slice serve.
     
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  20. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    I dream of driving someone to the back fence with my serve. Even the strongest servers at our club can’t keep someone that far back.

    Anyway the answer to someone standing way back is a midpower slice serve. Since he’s given you so much space, he will have to really move to get a racket on the ball.
     
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  21. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    Did anyone notice how almost none of her serves went in?
     
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  22. zaph

    zaph Semi-Pro

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    Let me guess, you want to sell the drop serve again?

    The problem with serving short is you best hope that your opponent can't read you serve, because if they get upto it you are in trouble.

    It is easy to counter, someone tried it against me on Friday, I tend to stand back. I simply waited till he was about to hit it and walked up the court. Since I was moving onto his short ball, hitting it passed him was easy. It threw his service technique off, because he didn't know when I was going to sneak in. He started hitting it long, because he couldn't easily adjust the pace on his serve under pressure.
     
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  23. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    Very few people can attack a drop serve dink.
    9 out of 10 times, they lose the point.
     
    #23
  24. zaph

    zaph Semi-Pro

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    We have someone who hits in the mid 120's, when he hits the lines it doesn't matter where you stand, it is passed you before you can do anything.
     
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  25. nytennisaddict

    nytennisaddict Legend

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    underhand or slice out wide...
     
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  26. Dartagnan64

    Dartagnan64 Legend

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    That’s why you don’t stand back even against the best servers. If they hit the lines you are done anyway. Stand close enough that you can block something back within your reach and not take it right in the chest. I tend to be about 6 feet back for the 100 mph guys. Any further back and they can ace me too easily. Any closer and I can’t get the racket out to meet the ball in time.
     
    #26
  27. golden chicken

    golden chicken Semi-Pro

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    #27
  28. mcs1970

    mcs1970 Professional

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    Blatant foot fault by Bahrami :)
     
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  29. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    There is NO foot faults in Senior league and Amateur USTA leagues.
     
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  30. golden chicken

    golden chicken Semi-Pro

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    Is it even legal to take two distinct swings at the ball on a serve?
     
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  31. Powderwombat

    Powderwombat Rookie

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    Watch and learn kiddo

     
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  32. S&V-not_dead_yet

    S&V-not_dead_yet Legend

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    No, that's an even better one than I was thinking of. I was thinking "no kick", just more topspin to make the ball land closer to the net.
     
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  33. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus Talk Tennis Guru

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    this is the same problem I have sometimes. when my opponent find out that they can't handle my serve standing just behind the baseline, they move way way back. and that actually works for them
     
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  34. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Professional

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    Slow, spinny slice serve out wide on deuce court (your ad court as a lefty). Will likely ace him, he won't be able to get to it in less than 2 bounces.

    Keep slicing until he stands closer to cut off the angle, then you can go back to your faster serves.
     
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  35. IowaGuy

    IowaGuy Professional

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    Another option is S&V down the T. With him standing so far back, you can probably hit your 1st volley in front of the service line. Standing far back, with a topspin serve down the T, he won't have any good angles to pass you with, and you'll be in good net position.
     
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  36. vex

    vex Professional

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    My 110 lb wife hits a harder serve than you based on your vids. SAD!
     
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  37. Morch Us

    Morch Us Semi-Pro

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    I am really surpriced that you being a lefty still never mastered the slice serve. I have never seen a lefty without a slice serve. Obviously it works very well against someone staying too far since the angles are pretty open. But being a lefty, you get to enjoy tons of mishits from opponents, even when they are not opening up angles, since it will take time for them to adjust to the side spin from a lefty.

     
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  38. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Legend

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    A pure slice serve is much harder to learn than a flat or Topkick, that's why.
    Very low % serve.
     
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  39. rogerroger917

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    Lol. Just underhand it. Silly goose.
     
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  40. Stretchy Man

    Stretchy Man Semi-Pro

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    With that attitude you're never going to improve. :(
     
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  41. graycrait

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    The only way I was able to get control of my serves was to hit over a 100 serves/day. I feel pretty good at around 150/session. I've been doing that regime close to 3 yrs. I am 63. I mentally divide the service box into 6 segments. I find that variety finds me more points these days. I love bamboozling an opponent even if I can't blow them off the court. And a lot of times when I hit what I consider my "heater" it often comes back faster than I served it. So to avoid too many of those I try and "walk" my serve around the box, short/deep/slice/TS/kick. So as to be realistic if my "down the T" is within 12" of the centerline I feel OK. Unless the opponent has really good movement going into the body for those who like to stand on the baseline works to get easy or errant returns. If they stand way back just serving short out wide brings them in to where you can go into the body or up the T. That short high kicker not moving particularly fast gets a lot of rec players. The last time I hit an underhand serve was this past winter and one of my opponents said, "That is not fair." I laughed so hard I was crying. These guys were 20 yrs younger than me.
     
    #41
  42. samarai

    samarai Semi-Pro

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    we have been trying to say this since the beginning. For a lefty at his level, all he needs is a good slice and he can almost win most of his serve points. people at that level have weak backhands and the lefty slice will wreck havoc.
    Instead he continues to throw up hypotheticals as if he is playing nadal or federer. tha's what his coach should have instilled, play to your strengths. dont need to reinvent the wheel. Instead, he's trying to model his game to play against ATP top 20 players.
     
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  43. Morch Us

    Morch Us Semi-Pro

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    I bet that exacly was you thought about topspin serve too, before learning the feel of topspin serve. I will wait for the day you come back here and post how easy and consistent your slice serve is.
     
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  44. rogerroger917

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    Yeah. Once a player gets better they can hit all the serves. Just practice. Playing matches also helps. But some players are afraid to play matches. So they never learn the full skill set under pressure.
     
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  45. Bender

    Bender G.O.A.T.

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    It's quite obviously the slower slice serve out wide, ideally placed in the corner or halfway up the service box.
     
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  46. AdrianC

    AdrianC New User

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    I just keep going, not wanting to mess with my rhythm and timing. The way i figure it is they'll likely struggle to reach anything either side of center in the service box.
     
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  47. 5point5

    5point5 Professional

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    All you do is go wide...
     
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  48. rogerroger917

    rogerroger917 Hall of Fame

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    The op is a 3.5. He doesn't own a wide serve. It's a pancake 1st serve and a bunt 2nd serve.
     
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  49. Username_

    Username_ Professional

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    the op has a 1.0 attitude
     
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  50. 5point5

    5point5 Professional

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    Then my suggestion is to get a cart of balls and develop a wide serve.
     
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