Opposing Captain spectator arguing with me while playing match

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
I was in a singles match tiebreaker change over and sat down and had a drink when I hear someone say you can't sit down on these change overs. Ok, I didn't know if that was a rule most times people I play do sit down on the match change overs and get a drink. But anyway I got up and started playing but the guy kept at it yelling from a balcony I only wanted to tell you so you know at state they won't allow it. Of course, if that was the only reason he told me he could have waited until after the match. So I yell back I don't know about that rule but I do know the audience is not supposed to interfere. Then right before his team mate serves he says tell that to your team. Between the points he keeps at it and says he is a USTA coach and Captain and I am lucky I don't lose a point. I again say look you can't argue with me during my match. Again just trying to get him to shut up. He then yells back something else like ok then we are both wrong right before his player serves again. I think I lost the last 3 out of 4 points and the match tiebreaker. After the match the guy comes down and is telling me he would have talked to my captain but by the time he would have done that I would have been resting longer which he didn't want. I just said it doesn't matter what the rule is you shouldn't be yelling at players about the rules during a match when no one asked for your rules advice.

BTW I don't think the yelling effected my play although it did make me angry to have to argue with this guy. And I also want to say my opponent was a good sport and played a good match and don't want to detract from his win at all. I do think this sort of conduct would get under other players skin and I really don't think it is appropriate. I was considering emailing this guy and our usta coordinator and relay what happened and tell him if he ever starts talking or arguing about the rules with the players without being asked I will ask him to leave. At least to document his behavior so if he does it again people know it was a repeat. I would think I could have insisted he leave and refuse to play unless he did but I am not so sure.

I think it should be considered coaching in that he was reminding his teammate of some rule he thought they should enforce.
Here is a rule from 2015 that I think covers this:
" 16. Spectators never make calls. A player shall not enlist the aid of a spectator in making a call. No spectator has a part in a match. " No spectator has a part in the match seems pretty clear.

https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2015_Code.pdf

I was not the captain in this case but I do captain some teams and I now have notice of what I consider poor behavior from this other captain. Any recommendations to prevent this guy from starting arguments with my players during a match in the future? Any advice appreciated.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Tell that Wanker to buzz right the F off, and get a ref to kick them out nicely.
No refs at our USTA matches. I am wondering if I or my team can insist he leave before continuing play. Or would that be stopping play for reasons other than personal, injury or illness - which seems to be a problem in itself. It would seem there should be some clearer rules about spectators shouting our rules for players - either as coaching or as interfering with the match as well as clear rules about what players can do about it. Maybe there are and I just haven't seen them. I am in the ******* section BTW.
 
You handled this pretty well, I trust your judgment over any advice I could give. Although I predict you can't prevent this guy from doing anything, he's going to behave like a doofus no matter what.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
You handled this pretty well, I trust your judgment over any advice I could give. Although I predict you can't prevent this guy from doing anything, he's going to behave like a doofus no matter what.

Thanks. If the rules don't really do anything to prevent this sort of conduct (which I consider poor) it is psychologically better to just accept USTA allows it, instead of even trying to prevent it. I may still send the email.
 
Thanks. If the rules don't really do anything to prevent this sort of conduct (which I consider poor) it is psychologically better to just accept USTA allows it, instead of even trying to prevent it. I may still send the email.
The email is a good idea, as you already know in your line of work, it creates a record and a history in case it escalates or continues.
 

schmke

Legend
Players have filed grievances post-match for less. So you could go that route if you wanted citing this from The Code:

17. Spectators never to make calls. A player shall not enlist the aid of a spectator in making a call. No spectator has a part in the match.
 

lockbox

Rookie
I'll take a different approach. If it wasn't your opponent that was making these arguments/points, then it really doesn't matter. The spectator rule is meant to preclude your opponent from trying to enforce what the spectator is seeing/calling.

If your opponent played on, your job was to ignore the spectator and remain sitting and keep playing your game. Now, bad sportsmanship from the spectator is probably the case here, but you didn't need to engage.
 

badmice2

Professional
You are correct. Spectators - captains or otherwise, cannot make in-match calls on behalf of their player. Only official court monitors are allow to do so. If the 2 players on court cannot settle their differences. The captain can file grievances afterwards. On that note, I would’ve told him to shut the hell up.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
At sectional in Tucson a few years back now, it was over 110 degrees in August when we were playing. Had several guys have to do an IV bag from overheating. I ended up taking our captain/partner to ER after we won our match, and he spent the night it was so bad. But we had our singles guys playing an epic point to point match, and the actual USTA official came in at the last tiebreak with that rule when our player sat to get water. The opposing captain looks over and says, "Tie your shoe. It seems to be getting untied and need adjustment on the changeovers." Seems another rule has to do with equipment/clothing adjustment and being able to sit for those. Not sure if it would be 100% true, but the official walked away after that.

I mean, 110+ degrees in August in AZ is no joke, especially for a barn burner singles match.
 

Gemini

Hall of Fame
At sectional in Tucson a few years back now, it was over 110 degrees in August when we were playing. Had several guys have to do an IV bag from overheating. I ended up taking our captain/partner to ER after we won our match, and he spent the night it was so bad. But we had our singles guys playing an epic point to point match, and the actual USTA official came in at the last tiebreak with that rule when our player sat to get water. The opposing captain looks over and says, "Tie your shoe. It seems to be getting untied and need adjustment on the changeovers." Seems another rule has to do with equipment/clothing adjustment and being able to sit for those. Not sure if it would be 100% true, but the official walked away after that.

I mean, 110+ degrees in August in AZ is no joke, especially for a barn burner singles match.
I can only imagine. I was just out there in AZ for work and you-all have been 110+ for nearly 3 weeks now. It's insane that someone wouldn't be reasonable given those kinds of temps. It's really not that big a deal.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
At sectional in Tucson a few years back now, it was over 110 degrees in August when we were playing. Had several guys have to do an IV bag from overheating. I ended up taking our captain/partner to ER after we won our match, and he spent the night it was so bad. But we had our singles guys playing an epic point to point match, and the actual USTA official came in at the last tiebreak with that rule when our player sat to get water. The opposing captain looks over and says, "Tie your shoe. It seems to be getting untied and need adjustment on the changeovers." Seems another rule has to do with equipment/clothing adjustment and being able to sit for those. Not sure if it would be 100% true, but the official walked away after that.

I mean, 110+ degrees in August in AZ is no joke, especially for a barn burner singles match.
Why don't they allow sitting on changeovers? Seems like an odd rule.

Is there also a limit on time allowed between points before serving?
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
I was in a singles match tiebreaker change over and sat down and had a drink when I hear someone say you can't sit down on these change overs. Ok, I didn't know if that was a rule most times people I play do sit down on the match change overs and get a drink. But anyway I got up and started playing but the guy kept at it yelling from a balcony I only wanted to tell you so you know at state they won't allow it. Of course, if that was the only reason he told me he could have waited until after the match. So I yell back I don't know about that rule but I do know the audience is not supposed to interfere. Then right before his team mate serves he says tell that to your team. Between the points he keeps at it and says he is a USTA coach and Captain and I am lucky I don't lose a point. I again say look you can't argue with me during my match. Again just trying to get him to shut up. He then yells back something else like ok then we are both wrong right before his player serves again. I think I lost the last 3 out of 4 points and the match tiebreaker. After the match the guy comes down and is telling me he would have talked to my captain but by the time he would have done that I would have been resting longer which he didn't want. I just said it doesn't matter what the rule is you shouldn't be yelling at players about the rules during a match when no one asked for your rules advice.

BTW I don't think the yelling effected my play although it did make me angry to have to argue with this guy. And I also want to say my opponent was a good sport and played a good match and don't want to detract from his win at all. I do think this sort of conduct would get under other players skin and I really don't think it is appropriate. I was considering emailing this guy and our usta coordinator and relay what happened and tell him if he ever starts talking or arguing about the rules with the players without being asked I will ask him to leave. At least to document his behavior so if he does it again people know it was a repeat. I would think I could have insisted he leave and refuse to play unless he did but I am not so sure.

I think it should be considered coaching in that he was reminding his teammate of some rule he thought they should enforce.
Here is a rule from 2015 that I think covers this:
" 16. Spectators never make calls. A player shall not enlist the aid of a spectator in making a call. No spectator has a part in a match. " No spectator has a part in the match seems pretty clear.

https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/2015_Code.pdf

I was not the captain in this case but I do captain some teams and I now have notice of what I consider poor behavior from this other captain. Any recommendations to prevent this guy from starting arguments with my players during a match in the future? Any advice appreciated.
If he does it again, next time, get your phone and record a video, and don't reply to him. Just ignore him. Or better, yet, pretend you can't hear him.

"I'm sorry I can't hear you. Can you speak a little louder? I went to a concert last night and my ears are ringing."

Repeat until he is yelling so loud he has lost his voice.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Why don't they allow sitting on changeovers? Seems like an odd rule.

Is there also a limit on time allowed between points before serving?

Like @Moon Shooter was saying about his situation, only a few players/coaches there on court actually had heard of it. The brief reasoning given by the USTA folks there was to keep games even and 'on time', and I get that. But even tourney's have considerations for heat, just we can't afford having cold towel service, AC or air units on court, and ball kids providing shade or shagging water all the time. Was just ridiculous to even bring up, and the quick departure of the official that brought it up was probably smart on their part. Both teams agreed for allowing players to sit for 'equipment adjustments' as much as needed at that point. That was in the spirit of fair competition and safety.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Why don't they allow sitting on changeovers? Seems like an odd rule.

Is there also a limit on time allowed between points before serving?
No sitting during changeovers during a tiebreaker has always been a pretty standard rule, although one that is rarely enforced.

In general, my reaction to this is "Moony got into a stupid argument during a match? Shocking, absolutely shocking".
 

cks

Hall of Fame
No sitting during changeovers during a tiebreaker has always been a pretty standard rule

I found it in Friend at Court under rule 29 Continuous Play.

29. CONTINUOUS PLAY
As a principle, play should be continuous, from the time the match starts (when
the first service of the match is put in play) until the match finishes.

a. Between points, a maximum of twenty-five (25) seconds is allowed. When
the players change ends at the end of a game, a maximum of ninety (90)
seconds are allowed. However, after the first game of each set and during a
tie-break game, play shall be continuous and the players shall change ends
without a rest.
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
What is the penalty and how is the penalty enforced if you sit down?

In other words, if @Moon Shooter had just ignored the guy, sat down and had a drink, got back up and gone to his side of the court, what "should" be the penalty against him? And how is it enforced?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29. CONTINUOUS PLAY
As a principle, play should be continuous, from the time the match starts (when
the first service of the match is put in play) until the match finishes.

a. Between points, a maximum of twenty-five (25) seconds is allowed. When
the players change ends at the end of a game, a maximum of ninety (90)
seconds are allowed. However, after the first game of each set and during a
tie-break game, play shall be continuous and the players shall change ends
without a rest.
 

drivophd

Rookie
If there are officials present, then typical time delay penalties go into effect (warning, then point penalty with each additional infraction).

Because there are no officials present in this case, you could tell them to kick rocks as there’s nothing they can do.
 
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