Ordered A 6.0 85 Demo.
- Thread starter jborg
- Start date
Jborg,
We're a super friendly forum here, but if you have multiple questions regarding so many frames, I suggest you consolidate them into one thread. You've recently been blowing up the forum with various posts regarding many different frames and you are asking super generic questions. The PS85 has been discussed here more than any other frame, just do a search for it.
We're a super friendly forum here, but if you have multiple questions regarding so many frames, I suggest you consolidate them into one thread. You've recently been blowing up the forum with various posts regarding many different frames and you are asking super generic questions. The PS85 has been discussed here more than any other frame, just do a search for it.
Myself included! Should be a really interesting demo. If I end up liking it I'll be really happy. It seems like a really awesome stick.
My apologies.
Due to the weight of the racquet, if you have good strokes and put your weight behind the ball, you should be able to hit with pretty high pace, no?
i can absolutely crush the ball with a 6.0. Its not so much the power as it is the control.
as far as the frame itself...dont let the head size fool you. People seem to think they need really large headsizes. i dont get it. i started playing with an 85 and never had issues with shanking. just watch the ball and turn into it.
They are very solid frames that pretty much do everything very well. The only downside i can think of is it will make most other frames feel like toys. If you eventually switch to a different frame you might as well order a role of lead tape along with it because your going to want that same type of weight and balance in a stick.
as far as the weight goes. i never felt they were heavy even when i played with lighter frames. not that I am in the 13.5-14 range the pro staff 6.0 feels like a feather.
Its an iconic frame for sure and will always be one of the best. Its a top 5 graphite frame of all time if not #1. Its always a tough call when you get to the top 5 or 6 all time frames.
as far as the frame itself...dont let the head size fool you. People seem to think they need really large headsizes. i dont get it. i started playing with an 85 and never had issues with shanking. just watch the ball and turn into it.
They are very solid frames that pretty much do everything very well. The only downside i can think of is it will make most other frames feel like toys. If you eventually switch to a different frame you might as well order a role of lead tape along with it because your going to want that same type of weight and balance in a stick.
as far as the weight goes. i never felt they were heavy even when i played with lighter frames. not that I am in the 13.5-14 range the pro staff 6.0 feels like a feather.
Its an iconic frame for sure and will always be one of the best. Its a top 5 graphite frame of all time if not #1. Its always a tough call when you get to the top 5 or 6 all time frames.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yes, if you have perfect timing and hit the ball flush directly in the center of the sweetspot. The PS 6.0 85 is significantly lower powered than your APD. And you'll have an easier time with the PS 6.0 85 if you hit the ball flat as opposed to massive topspin.
torpantennis
Legend
This is so true. IMO this holds true with most all classical player's racquets, even in midplus size. Heavy static weight racquets just are easier to swing through the ball, rather than aggressively brush up with extreme low-to-high wristy action. Of course you have to generate topspin to keep the ball in, but the trajectory you are hitting the ball with is much lower.
your also hitting more of the ball and keeping on your strings longer which is all benefiting control. add to that you dont need uncontrollable swing speed to generate depth and power. then there is the whole issue with timing. Much, much easier and also far easier to make adjustments when on court. If your not hitting clean you can slow your swing down a tad. with more modern styles and frames you have to over compensate in different ways....more power....more spin etc. etc. and it more than often all becomes a huge mess.
If you have some mental block over a mid size being to small....go hit with a standard like a Yamaha YFG. The pro staff 85 will feel like an oversize after that LOL.
I have gotten to the point these days where i can hit clean with even YFGs though. right handed anyways. Lefty i cant seem to go below an 85 without having problems. 95s are even easier so I understand people of lower levels wanting larger head sizes. It technical and ability level driven more than anything else. I always tell people as you get better dont rule out smaller head sizes. There is a certain sweetness in being able to completely rip passing shot hard and flat with total control. Serving often goes to another level as well. as do volleys.
torpantennis
Legend
^I don't really get it when people say that it's harder to serve with heavy racquets. Sure, that could be true if you only add lead at noon, i.e the modern heavy-SW/low-static-weight type of a racquet. But with these classical 12.5oz racquets I serve so much harder, with so much more spin and consistency.
And yes, there's actually less things that can go wrong when you rip through the ball. The timing is easier, no strange wristy actions. STILL, I hit with modern style, i.e pronated compact take back and racquet lag etc. But I swing more through the ball with my 12.5oz IGPMP than I did with my previous 11+oz racquets.
But what improved the most was the defensive play. My BH slice is actually a deadly weapon now. I can draw some miracle gets with it. I just don't get it, it's almost like ridiuslously easy to play with 12.5oz. Pros do it, why aren't the rec players doing it?
And if some of you think that the "modern" pro's hit loopy moonballs, check this out: http://youtu.be/c6g-W2VdQ_o
And yes, there's actually less things that can go wrong when you rip through the ball. The timing is easier, no strange wristy actions. STILL, I hit with modern style, i.e pronated compact take back and racquet lag etc. But I swing more through the ball with my 12.5oz IGPMP than I did with my previous 11+oz racquets.
But what improved the most was the defensive play. My BH slice is actually a deadly weapon now. I can draw some miracle gets with it. I just don't get it, it's almost like ridiuslously easy to play with 12.5oz. Pros do it, why aren't the rec players doing it?
And if some of you think that the "modern" pro's hit loopy moonballs, check this out: http://youtu.be/c6g-W2VdQ_o
all true. You hit a better ball because you have more mass directly behind it. Its like a cheat in some ways. Instead of makeing your body bigger and stronger you get a bit of a short cut and advantage with going to a frame with more mass.
the reason most rec players cant deal with it is technique. with bad technique the racquets are almost too powerful in some ways. then they try to compensate with more brush up on the ball because some pro told them to and everything becomes a struggle. then the body breaks down because they are useing small muscle groups....oh my shoulder hurts....oh my arm is sore.
so they go to lower mass racquets with less power (even though they are stiffer). In terms of stiffness i find it to be more of a feel factor than any sort of power relevance. so its less mass which translates into less power...bad technique is easier to reinforce due to lack of arm strength and still keep the ball in the court. The problem is that with modern racquets they are so stiff that the bad technique eventually wears down the body when there is no mass behind it to promote proper ball striking. Throw in poly strings and its a recipe for disaster. Rec players would be far better off with flexible racquets and gut or nylon strings. widebodies are fine and have merit for stability but not when they are light and stiff. the high stiffness is giving them nothing....not control....not power. same can be said for Poly at the rec level. They are simply not good enough to get anything out of it.
but hey....make them cheap, slap on some fancy nascar paint job, get a pro to paint his racquet the same and pay a percentage to those in direct contact with the consumer and you are well on your way to a marketable product with high profit margins.
The problem for those who work and are in direct contact with the rec player is that they get hurt and cant play anymore. Its like a drug addict quick fix. Great in the short term but disastrous in the long run. In the end the sport ends up canibalizing itself. Then people start shouting that participation rate is low. So you up the prices for those who still play for short term benefit....and again in the long run more people are discouraged because the costs are to high. teaching pros cant make a decent living so you have less people out there promoting the game.
I am not saying this is the only reason tennis is dying off but everything is relevant. tennis is unique in some ways because the actual equipment can force a recreational player into injuries and take them out of the game. Other sports are a little different. the actual equipment doesnt usually promote injuries from usage in sports like basketball, soccer, baseball etc etc. In this instance equipment selection like racquets can be very critical as is technical instruction and encouraging players to pace themselves when entering the sport.
I used to tell adults first starting no more than a couple of hours two times a week max for the first couple few months. Let your body get used to it. If you want to do more than that work out at home or go to the gym to strengthen up the body. These types of things are pretty important when your bringing adults into the sport who have never played the game. also...there is no real harm in useing an arm brace even when your not injured. Protect the arm.
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Because, this is people's perception of a 12+oz racquet (re-post from another thread):
torpantennis
Legend
Because, this is people's perception of a 12+oz racquet (re-post from another thread):
Just too much weight in the tip! :lol:
roundiesee
Hall of Fame
You will love it so much, you will sell away all your other rackets! 
well you can see just from the picture that his boom stick is too head heavy. he is also useing a double continental on his two hander. That in conjuction with his more modern technique of left arm dominance, muscleing the shot and late contact just give reason why his technique is ineffective. he really need to go with a lighter stick...change grips, and get some "high performance" clothes if he wants to improve. He is clearly clinging on to the past when that style has shown to be 100% innefective in this new era of greatness where every #1 is the greatest of all time and previous champions were at the athletic level of professional bowlers.
Good intensity though LOL.
Good intensity though LOL.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
The sweetspot is something like 1/10th that of your APD.
I find the PS 85 to be the best serving racquet I have ever played, as well as the best volleying racquet. On groundstrokes you need extremely good timing and focus.
Don't expect anything nice out of me if you post another thread on a completely different racquet anytime soon.
This post is spot on. I'm guilty of bad technique sometimes as well. But you find most rec players really arm the ball. They've learned to use really stiff racquets and just brush the ball at the detriment of their health.
Don't worry..... I'm not planning on posting anymore threads about frames.......
torpantennis
Legend
Hey, just let the guy try all different things out. It could be that he's just playing with a totally wrong type of a racquet ATM. I know I was, for like 2-3 years, before I figured out that I play my best game with dense pattern classical heavyweight player's racquets. TBH, the eye-opener for me was playtesting Steam 99s. I hated it more than any racquet I've ever tried. Then I just figured out that hey, I'm actually a player who likes to hit low trajectory shots!
I agree though, he's been bloating the Racquet forum with too many separate threads recently. He should've made his own racquet testing thread IMO, like you did.
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Hey, just let the guy try all different things out. It could be that he's just playing with a totally wrong type of a racquet ATM. I know I was, for like 2-3 years, before I figured out that I play my best game with dense pattern classical heavyweight player's racquets. TBH, the eye-opener for me was playtesting Steam 99s. I hated it more than any racquet I've ever tried. Then I just figured out that hey, I'm actually a player who likes to hit low trajectory shots!
I agree though, he's been bloating the Racquet forum with too many separate threads recently. He should've made his own racquet testing thread IMO, like you did.
One word for him: TripleB
Hey, just let the guy try all different things out. It could be that he's just playing with a totally wrong type of a racquet ATM. I know I was, for like 2-3 years, before I figured out that I play my best game with dense pattern classical heavyweight player's racquets. TBH, the eye-opener for me was playtesting Steam 99s. I hated it more than any racquet I've ever tried. Then I just figured out that hey, I'm actually a player who likes to hit low trajectory shots!
I agree though, he's been bloating the Racquet forum with too many separate threads recently. He should've made his own racquet testing thread IMO, like you did.
This forum is a little different than what I'm used to. Sorry. Normally I'm on forums where a thread in the gear section will die relatively quickly, so you have to make another thread if you want to discuss a different product. Granted, those aren't tennis forums. My apologies. It won't happen again.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
At least TripleB actually demos racquets.
Would it be too much to ask for you guys to shut the hell up? I apologized and there's nothing more I can do about it. FYI, I am demoing racquets.
i am not going to dog you. i have hundreds of racquets. i have many racquets that i play with that are absolute perfection IMO. not just one or two but multiples of multiples. guess what my last racquet was.....a cheap head TI magnesium. its like a $15 dollar walmart frame. i couldnt resist. i have weighted it up and balanced it to that of my prince magnesium pros and tweeked it a little in different ways. guess what? it plays really, really well. its not far off from the heralded price mag pro.
playing around with equipment is just another way to enjoy the sport. just have fun with it. Its amazing how you can improve the playability of racquets if you have an idea of what your doing. you can literally buy a cheap junk frame and spend a couple of dollars and turn it into a solid players frame. i used to keep a kit in my bag and tweek students frame on the fly when i was working with them.
playing around with equipment is just another way to enjoy the sport. just have fun with it. Its amazing how you can improve the playability of racquets if you have an idea of what your doing. you can literally buy a cheap junk frame and spend a couple of dollars and turn it into a solid players frame. i used to keep a kit in my bag and tweek students frame on the fly when i was working with them.
That's cool man. I'm always afraid to tinker with my gear. Because I know I'll never get it right if I start adding lead, haha. I'm just trying to find something I really like to play with. 6.0 85 might not be it but I thought I'd try anyways. Maybe it's not fit for the modern game, maybe it won't be a racquet I use in tournaments, but I'm still going to try it.
do you have a one handed backhand or two?
I have a 2HBH. Easy power and precision.
you will probably hate it LOL. give it a shot through. If you have a nice loose and smooth classic technique say like miloslav Mecir or conners you might like it a lot. if you muscle through your backhand like a modern player you will probably hate it. courier made it work for him though..... as did krickstein.
good thing is its hard to loose a lot of money with a Pro staff 6.0 so you can always get most of your money back if not all of it.
Yeah I didn't buy one. Just demoing it for now. If I like it enough I may get one. I wouldn't say I muscle my backhand. But that's a relative term and I can't really compare it to anything else.
what_army
Professional
For me it's quite simple - i'm in my 30s and have been playing for more than 20 years. Although I've never hit with anything bigger than 93-95sq in, if the day when a 85sq in frame was not forgiving enough were to come, it would probably be the perfect day to say goodbye and never look back.
Take a look at the TWU data on the sweet spot. It's actually larger than many 100sq in racquets. I hit a much harder / heavier ball with my 6.0 85.
Woah.... Just took a look at the power zone comparisons. The 6.0 85 has a larger sweetspot than my APD's but smaller than my Tour 95. Pretty interesting! Thanks for mentioning that.
SpinToWin
Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't give the data too much significance. On court, the sweetspot of the Pro Staff 85 is considerably smaller than that of the APD.
Yeah. Data is much different than how it actually feels.
This racquet is just more difficult to use nowadays with the invention of poly strings and stiffer lighter more powerful racquets. I find it difficult to use against a heavy topspin player which no doubt is helped by poly and these newer racquets. I do miss the days when we all used syn gut. Still it is the best feeling racquet I have ever hit with.
torpantennis
Legend
So you have already tried it on court?
I have a 6.0 mid late China and a 6.0 mid St. Vincents, besides five 6.0 95's, my "go to" frames (and a KPS 88, kind of 6.0 85 grandchild)
The ups: great on serve and volley, great feeling, lots of precision and plow through, super solid, very head-light balance, and an absolutely addictive sound from the string bed every time you hit the sweet spot (reminds me a lot the old wooden rackets)
The downs: very demanding stick, physically and for groundies, this racket favours early preparation, proper technique with long loopy swings, and flat hitting - and slices, a true delight with this stick.
If you can do this, you're ok, if you like to muscle the ball with top spin, Nadal style, the way modern light stiff rackets demand, you'll have real trouble to enjoy it properly
This racket does not lack power, but it's a different type of power compared with modern frames, with the 6.0 mid, the power comes from the weight and general mass, if a player can use both weight and mass to his favour, he's in tennis heaven, if not, he will be frustrated for sure
I like it for warmup and practice, and occasional matches with the right conditions, it's a delight for occasional hitting - but for my regular racket it's a bit to much, I need the extra 10 sq.i. from my 6.0 95's
No no, I'm just saying in general. You can't tell how something feels by looking at data.
How do you like your ps95? Some members here speak quite highly of it while some insist that it much worse than the 85.
Yes. My two racquets are the Babolat PD to learn the modern tennis technique and the 'ol 6.0 PS85. I hit a much heavier wall with the PS85 and I can tell the sweetspot is larger. The PS85 feels like sweetspot till I hit the frame! Lol.
Yeah, for the num-nums here who are itching to reply, I'm being a bit facetious.
I disagree. My experience is 100% similar to what is described and the TWU data confirmed my findings. Thus, I brought it to the your attention.
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torpantennis
Legend
At least in K90, another Wilson mid, the whole racquet head is sweet spot, if you just add a bit of lead at the tip.
How do I like them? It's been my main stick since 1998, and had a total 7 of those, that's how much I like them.
Read the review from TW, they compared both sticks.
I would say the 85 is better on serve and volleys, and the 95 is a very good racket on both serve and volleys (but not 85's level), and better (or easier...) from the baseline than the 85.
Those extra 10 sq.i. and the thicker beam makes it a totally different animal for groundies, and more suited to modern game, since it's a more forgiving stick.
The 95 has much more spin available, and a bit more power, and you don't have to be on super form or be an ATP player to enjoy it to the full.
The thing with this racket is versatility: I have about 25 sticks today, all mid sized graphite frames (Avery M3 control, Prestige 600 Mid, some 6.1's, POG, etc.), or graphite classics, and playtest a lot, and what really shines on the 6.0 95 is the blend of feeling/control/power.
The 85 is the S&V'er dream racket, the 95 is the all-around attacker dream racket
Sure the 85 purists will say the 95 is "a bit too flexible, bordering on whippy" (like Mr. Granville on that TW review) compared to the 85, but most of the players out there (me included) simply cannot handle modern game with the 85.
So, to answer your question, it's not worst or better: just a little different, and more suited to the average player
