Origin/Cream/Velocity hybrid setup experiences?

[Jambaa]

Hi everyone, new member here and I've caught the string experimentation bug. There's been lots of recent posts regarding Origin/Velocity/Cream and I'd like to try a combo or two. Hopefully, I can get some suggestions to help narrow my choices.

About myself - just started getting back into tennis after 15+ years, played thru Jr and High School. I played some tournaments, but wasn't ranked or anything like that. My racquet setup back then was pretty simple - Prince Graphite, Midsize, with synthetic gut. I borrowed a more modern racquet from a friend earlier this year and proceeded to give myself my first episode of tennis elbow, likely due to poor timing and hitting the frame as much as the dead poly stings. I took a few months off, read a bunch on these forums, and am doing much better now with the DR98. I guess my playing style is more classic, flatter, with a OHBH, but I'm working at a more modern swing.

I tried Velocity FB at 53lbs but had a hard time keeping the ball in the court. Gosen OGSM 16 at 55lbs gave much better control, but I couldn't resist trying something different. On the advice of a very well respected stringer, I'm current playing Head Primal 56/54 (not sure which tension is M vs C) It felt nice for a couple of hours, then played really nicely for about 10 hours, but now feels less responsive. So, I'm looking for a setup which will offer good control/moderate spin and more playability for a longer duration of time (less tension loss?). I'll have a hard time keeping it in if it's too powerful.

My thoughts are Origin 16 mains with Cream 17 crosses - has anyone tried this setup and how did it work out?
Other possibilities are
Origin mains / Velocity cross - I've read the ongoing thread many times
Cream with Velocity cross? Or Velocity with Cream cross? My current Primal strings have poly mains and multifilament cross.
Natural Gut with Cream or Velocity?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Dandow93]

Honestly your best bet is just to spend the time reading through the threads that already exist (which it seems you've found by being drawn to these strings on this forum).

Byebyepoly, dartagnan, Traffic and some other guys have made threads on Velocity FB in both colours, velocity origin hybrid, velocity gut hybrid, velocity HDX hybrid, velocity cream hybrid, full bed cream, gut and cream etc etc. I am similar to you in that I was introduced to these string combos through this forum and a lot of the discussions they were having. Like you I have also ended up using a DR98 (with velocity) after getting an elbow injury from other frames/strings/whatever else contributed.

I agree that it's super fun to try different combos, particularly within the niche of "spinny strings that don't kill my arm", but the reality is that any subtle differences you're probably going to realise from hybriding these combos of strings will be unlikely to tangibly improve your game - it's more just enjoying tinkering with different stuff and having fun with it. I have velocity natural in my DR 98 at the moment and find it to be very controlled - though fairly muted feeling, but it's all personal taste I guess.

Here's a list of some of the other discussions I've referred to:

Velocity thread: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/head-velocity.586942/
Origin/velocity: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/origin-velocity.613819/
Velocity/cream: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/velocity-cream.603076/
Gut/velocity: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/legend-velocity.619149/
Cream/OGSM: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/cream-ogsm-hybrid.588527/
Cream/HDX: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...echnifibre-hdx-tour-gut-poly-emoji848.608107/
Gut/cream https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/klip-legend-cream-hybrid.596625/
General gut/poly thread: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/the-gut-poly-thread.521459/

There are even more within the niche you're asking about, but you should be able to find those by searching the users I've mentioned. Keep in mind though that despite everyone weighing in their different opinions about these subtle combos, it's all just subjective and it's because they enjoy messing around with it all and trying new things - definitely not rabbitholes you (or anyone else who plays tennis generally) needs to go down.

 

[Traffic]

Honestly your best bet is just to spend the time reading through the threads that already exist (which it seems you've found by being drawn to these strings on this forum).

Byebyepoly, dartagnan, Traffic and some other guys have made threads on Velocity FB in both colours, velocity origin hybrid, velocity gut hybrid, velocity HDX hybrid, velocity cream hybrid, full bed cream, gut and cream etc etc. I am similar to you in that I was introduced to these string combos through this forum and a lot of the discussions they were having. Like you I have also ended up using a DR98 (with velocity) after getting an elbow injury from other frames/strings/whatever else contributed.

I agree that it's super fun to try different combos, particularly within the niche of "spinny strings that don't kill my arm", but the reality is that any subtle differences you're probably going to realise from hybriding these combos of strings will be unlikely to tangibly improve your game - it's more just enjoying tinkering with different stuff and having fun with it. I have velocity natural in my DR 98 at the moment and find it to be very controlled - though fairly muted feeling, but it's all personal taste I guess.

Here's a list of some of the other discussions I've referred to:

Velocity thread: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/head-velocity.586942/
Origin/velocity: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/origin-velocity.613819/
Velocity/cream: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/velocity-cream.603076/
Gut/velocity: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/legend-velocity.619149/
Cream/OGSM: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/cream-ogsm-hybrid.588527/
Cream/HDX: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...echnifibre-hdx-tour-gut-poly-emoji848.608107/
Gut/cream https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/klip-legend-cream-hybrid.596625/
General gut/poly thread: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/the-gut-poly-thread.521459/

There are even more within the niche you're asking about, but you should be able to find those by searching the users I've mentioned. Keep in mind though that despite everyone weighing in their different opinions about these subtle combos, it's all just subjective and it's because they enjoy messing around with it all and trying new things - definitely not rabbitholes you (or anyone else who plays tennis generally) needs to go down.

Can we make this post a sticky?

This thread can only de-rail or get thread jacked by @ByeByePoly from here...

 

[ByeByePoly]

Can we make this post a sticky?

This thread can only de-rail or get thread jacked by @ByeByePoly from here...

Not nice ... but I agree with you.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Origin with Cream is a combo I'm interested in trying out. Sadly my string selection is limited in Canada so finding Cream without paying international shipping fees is a PITA.

Origin/Velocity is a great combo but I think it works better in low powered players frames than in powerful spin oriented frames. The DR98 is a bit less powerful than, say, a Babolat Pure Drive but it still might struggle with the power innate to Origin.

 

[ByeByePoly]

@Jambaa ... welcome.

First question: do you want to settle on a string, or test different strings? If the first ... run away now while you can.

Just to show @Traffic that I can control my thread-hijacking impulses, let's start with:

"I tried Velocity FB at 53lbs but had a hard time keeping the ball in the court."

Velocity ... even @53 is a controlled low-mid power setup. Do not type "Origin" again. Or "gut".

Did you like Velocity? How much "too much power"? Maybe try fb V @55.

Same year as TE, think about poly (even partial) next year (if at all). You can work on modern strokes with any string, and if poly and big spin is in your future ... call it a 2019 future.

If you stick with arm friendly lower piwered nylon, Prince Premiere Control is a little less power than Velocity ... but I liked Velocity better.

I have never hit the sheep ... but heard good things about it. Talk to @Traffic about sheep/velocity. You should not worry about straight strings until TE way back there ... but might like that combo with straighter sheep.

Seriously ... welcome and run away before it's too late.

 

[Traffic]

Hi everyone, new member here and I've caught the string experimentation bug. There's been lots of recent posts regarding Origin/Velocity/Cream and I'd like to try a combo or two. Hopefully, I can get some suggestions to help narrow my choices.

About myself - just started getting back into tennis after 15+ years, played thru Jr and High School. I played some tournaments, but wasn't ranked or anything like that. My racquet setup back then was pretty simple - Prince Graphite, Midsize, with synthetic gut. I borrowed a more modern racquet from a friend earlier this year and proceeded to give myself my first episode of tennis elbow, likely due to poor timing and hitting the frame as much as the dead poly stings. I took a few months off, read a bunch on these forums, and am doing much better now with the DR98. I guess my playing style is more classic, flatter, with a OHBH, but I'm working at a more modern swing.

I tried Velocity FB at 53lbs but had a hard time keeping the ball in the court. Gosen OGSM 16 at 55lbs gave much better control, but I couldn't resist trying something different. On the advice of a very well respected stringer, I'm current playing Head Primal 56/54 (not sure which tension is M vs C) It felt nice for a couple of hours, then played really nicely for about 10 hours, but now feels less responsive. So, I'm looking for a setup which will offer good control/moderate spin and more playability for a longer duration of time (less tension loss?). I'll have a hard time keeping it in if it's too powerful.

My thoughts are Origin 16 mains with Cream 17 crosses - has anyone tried this setup and how did it work out?
Other possibilities are
Origin mains / Velocity cross - I've read the ongoing thread many times
Cream with Velocity cross? Or Velocity with Cream cross? My current Primal strings have poly mains and multifilament cross.
Natural Gut with Cream or Velocity?

Thanks for the help!

One of the things common in good juniors with years of experience but lacking tournament experience is a tendency to go for it on all their shots. Now as an adult, your body probably can't handle the demand and compounding it is you are probably working with less than ideal form/technique jumping back in.

But now that you've settled on a good racquet and looking for a good string set up, it appears you are on the right track in terms of what type of strings to research.

If you do have string experimentation bug, you should probably have at a minimum 2 of the same racquets. You'll need one as a control and then you can string your other racquet with the experiment and compare back to back. You can experiment with one racquet, but the comparisons may be tainted with feeling fresh strings versus feeling a different string.

2ndly, you should have your own stringing machine or easy access to a stringer. This is more of a logistics and cost issue. I order my strings in batches so the cost of re-stringing a racquet is the strings and 45min of my time. If I had to take my racquet to a stringer, I would have to pay for the string plus $20 and 3hrs of my time to drive back and forth to the pro shop.

Ok, back to string performance and your goals.

I've found fb Velocity to be one of the lowest powered setups I've played with. The only thing lower powered is dead poly. At the same time, fb V is not as spin friendly as many fb poly. So really depending on your playing style, you'll need to decide what properties are going to be most important for you.

When I started my string journey, I was looking for spin friendly. Then I realized I needed comfort. Then I wanted control. Then I wanted consistency of playability. And that's how I narrowed my selection. I also took a hard look at what performance I wanted vs what performance I needed for my tennis development. I abandoned the super spin setup and went for control and consistency and sought out raccquet and string setup that would support that better. Now with my control setup, I can hit more accurately with more consistency and quite frankly, with my improved technique I impart as much spin as I did before using shaped poly in a spin effect racquet.

 

[liftordie]

Origin/Velocity is a great combo but I think it works better in low powered players frames than in powerful spin oriented frames.

That is reality. Tried O/V in my PA at 26/25kg and it was really too powerful... But great feel!!
Now I will try Origin 17/Max Power Rough 18.
Can't wait!!!

 

[Jambaa]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.

@Dandow93 - Thanks for pulling all those links together. I've gone thru most of them, but my forum search skills weren't good enough to find anything specific regarding the Origin/Cream hybrid. Someone did mention it, but I couldn't find a review. I'm searching for pro as well to help guide my game, but all these string options are so interesting! Back in my Jr years, it was just POSG or Topspin. I knew about gut, but wayyyyy out of my budget.

@Dartagnan64 - I was thinking about using a higher tension for Origin, say up 58-60? With the tension loss, it should settle down to the low/mid 50s? I'm not sure about what tension to use for Cream though. The TW Sting database show a potential tension loss of around 25%? Perhaps I should start Cream at the mid 50s so it ends up in the upper to mid 40s?

@ByeByePoly - Thanks for the welcome! I think I've read hundreds of your posts and you're probably the main reason I'm thinking about experimenting. I've even started looking at stringing machines and stringing videos, and I haven't even gotten past my first 5 string jobs after starting to play again. Racquets and lessons use to take up most of the tennis budget, but now the strings might.
The plan is to find a string / combo that is playable for many months. I'm not a frequent string breaker so if I have 2-3 racquets, each one may only be strung a couple times per year. My experience with GOGSM 17 showed an approx 12 lb tension loss over 2.5 months according to RacquetTune, hence the search for a new string setup. I'm not use to replacing strings because they become unplayable.
My experience with Velocity was actually in the first racquet I tried, DR 100. It was great for doubles, but groundstrokes were flying and the racquet was stiffer than I expected. Perhaps Velocity will still work for me in the DR 98. I think I tried the 17G natural, perhaps 16G will be the one. I'll give Origin a shot mainly for the tension maintenance. Hopefully it's more controllable in the higher tension range. I'm not sure what tension to use for the Cream 17G crosses though. I'd like the Cream to limit the power and add some additional spin.

@Traffic - I think I'm looking for similar string characteristics as you, but with the addition of long term playability/consistency at least until I end up with a stringing machine. Power is not as important as it once was, since my opponents are moving slower. I was thinking perhaps gut/... in one racquet, and origin/... in another for less than ideal conditions, since some have compared Origin to gut. I'm lucky that I have several stringers nearby, ranging from a decent cheap/fast place up to a professional level stringer with a ton of experience. I'd like to go to the latter expert every time, but cost will be a factor if I have to cut out strings several every month or two.

@liftordie - You're scaring me ...I might have to go 60+ lbs for Origin

 

[liftordie]

@liftordie - You're scaring me ...I might have to go 60+ lbs for Origin

Sorry but O/V is really too much powerful with a spin power frame like Pure Aero.
You need a high control frame to take the best of O/V.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.

@Dandow93 - Thanks for pulling all those links together. I've gone thru most of them, but my forum search skills weren't good enough to find anything specific regarding the Origin/Cream hybrid. Someone did mention it, but I couldn't find a review. I'm searching for pro as well to help guide my game, but all these string options are so interesting! Back in my Jr years, it was just POSG or Topspin. I knew about gut, but wayyyyy out of my budget.

@Dartagnan64 - I was thinking about using a higher tension for Origin, say up 58-60? With the tension loss, it should settle down to the low/mid 50s? I'm not sure about what tension to use for Cream though. The TW Sting database show a potential tension loss of around 25%? Perhaps I should start Cream at the mid 50s so it ends up in the upper to mid 40s?

@ByeByePoly - Thanks for the welcome! I think I've read hundreds of your posts and you're probably the main reason I'm thinking about experimenting. I've even started looking at stringing machines and stringing videos, and I haven't even gotten past my first 5 string jobs after starting to play again. Racquets and lessons use to take up most of the tennis budget, but now the strings might.
The plan is to find a string / combo that is playable for many months. I'm not a frequent string breaker so if I have 2-3 racquets, each one may only be strung a couple times per year. My experience with GOGSM 17 showed an approx 12 lb tension loss over 2.5 months according to RacquetTune, hence the search for a new string setup. I'm not use to replacing strings because they become unplayable.
My experience with Velocity was actually in the first racquet I tried, DR 100. It was great for doubles, but groundstrokes were flying and the racquet was stiffer than I expected. Perhaps Velocity will still work for me in the DR 98. I think I tried the 17G natural, perhaps 16G will be the one. I'll give Origin a shot mainly for the tension maintenance. Hopefully it's more controllable in the higher tension range. I'm not sure what tension to use for the Cream 17G crosses though. I'd like the Cream to limit the power and add some additional spin.

@Traffic - I think I'm looking for similar string characteristics as you, but with the addition of long term playability/consistency at least until I end up with a stringing machine. Power is not as important as it once was, since my opponents are moving slower. I was thinking perhaps gut/... in one racquet, and origin/... in another for less than ideal conditions, since some have compared Origin to gut. I'm lucky that I have several stringers nearby, ranging from a decent cheap/fast place up to a professional level stringer with a ton of experience. I'd like to go to the latter expert every time, but cost will be a factor if I have to cut out strings several every month or two.

@liftordie - You're scaring me ...I might have to go 60+ lbs for Origin

We should all pause and give @Dandow93 a golf clap for those links. Wow ... very nice.

Got it ... not quick restringing. In my "I lost 8 months of tennis from TE" opinion ... even more reason to avoid poly. Even Cream is a poly ... you don't want it in your racquet for months.

Yes ... tension maintenance is going to be key, so you are on the right track with gut and origin, but at higher tensions. You might consider trying origin/v @60/55 first ... you might avoid two different setups for wet and dry. @Traffic is replacing V crosses ... my guess is because gut is hard on it.

fyi ... yep, used to be posg or topspin. For me ... it was posg.

Now you have to let us know what you try, and what worked.

Edit:

The hybrid thing really complicates the trial and error. Consider you tried fb origin @60 ... liked it, but you needed to adjust the power. Easy ... bump tension of origin up or down on second stringing. But say o/v @60/55 ... and it was too powerful. What tension do you change ... origin, velocity, both, need different cross,different main, maybe not red origin ...

I only put V in the o/v because fb origin wasn't enough spin for me. If I changed to totally flat ... I go to fb origin immediately ... probably starting @58. Different crosses are usually for spin and taming. You can always do the taming part with just more fb tension. @Traffic is so right about the second racquet when testing a lot of strings.

 

[Dartagnan64]

@Dartagnan64 - I was thinking about using a higher tension for Origin, say up 58-60? With the tension loss, it should settle down to the low/mid 50s? I'm not sure about what tension to use for Cream though. The TW Sting database show a potential tension loss of around 25%? Perhaps I should start Cream at the mid 50s so it ends up in the upper to mid 40s?

In my experience with Origin, it needs to be in the 57-60 lb range for more powerful frames. Basically I always put it in at the upper end of the recommended string tension. Low powered players frames like my Phantoms - 55 lbs. In my Wilson Blade 58 lbs. And in my PD+ and POG 107 - 60lbs.

I'd use any poly no matter the softness in the low 50's to mid 40's. I would never take a poly above 52 lbs. But that's my elbow talking. Your elbow may say different.

 

[liftordie]

Kevlar/Origin could be a good setup?

 

[ByeByePoly]

In my experience with Origin, it needs to be in the 57-60 lb range for more powerful frames. Basically I always put it in at the upper end of the recommended string tension. Low powered players frames like my Phantoms - 55 lbs. In my Wilson Blade 58 lbs. And in my PD+ and POG 107 - 60lbs.

I'd use any poly no matter the softness in the low 50's to mid 40's. I would never take a poly above 52 lbs. But that's my elbow talking. Your elbow may say different.

Origin is weird in one aspect ... even in o/v @55/52. Origin feels sweet on full swings, but a little clunky on off pace swings. I hit a mixture of full rhs strokes (topspin and flat), and off pace shots. For example ... a low off pace dtl forehand that might land near sideline and service line. Also ... really clunky if my timing is off (rushed) on FH ... and slower rhs. Maybe Origin is a teaching aid. FB Velocity feels better on those off pace shots to me. That is different than how it performs on touch ... my origin clunky 1hbh drop shot is more lethal than my fb velocity muted drop shot. Go figure.

My guess is @Traffic 's L/V would feel better to me on my off pace shots.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Origin is weird in one aspect ... even in o/v @55/52. Origin feels sweet on full swings, but a little clunky on off pace swings. I hit a mixture of full rhs strokes (topspin and flat), and off pace shots. For example ... a low off pace dtl forehand that might land near sideline and service line. Also ... really clunky if my timing is off (rushed) on FH ... and slower rhs. Maybe Origin is a teaching aid. FB Velocity feels better on those off pace shots to me. That is different than how it performs on touch ... my origin clunky 1hbh drop shot is more lethal than my fb velocity muted drop shot. Go figure.

My guess is @Traffic 's L/V would feel better to me on my off pace shots.

Off pace shots? What are those?

The only thing I sometimes struggle with is mini tennis with my 16x19 frames. I'm not sure O/V is the best setup for "brushy" tennis. A low tension shaped poly is likely better for that. Or super high tension gut.

But my touch shots with my 93P are really nice with this setup. An 18x20 string bed really adds further taming to the string bed and gives very nice control and I get fabulous pop from the stringbed on full shots.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Off pace shots? What are those?

The only thing I sometimes struggle with is mini tennis with my 16x19 frames. I'm not sure O/V is the best setup for "brushy" tennis. A low tension shaped poly is likely better for that. Or super high tension gut.

But my touch shots with my 93P are really nice with this setup. An 18x20 string bed really adds further taming to the string bed and gives very nice control and I get fabulous pop from the stringbed on full shots.

"Off pace shots? What are those?"

I am the pitcher without a 100 mph fast ball ... I have to move it around the plate.

Yeah ... I won't be judging strings by lame mini tennis.

I am getting my old Yonex RDIS 200 re-strung ... and had to pick a string. I almost went with cyclone tour to just have one "spinny" racquet, but ended up going fb Velocity 54/52 ... to compare to the old xcel that was in the racquet. I notice going from V1 Pro to Yonex w/xcel ... I feel some vibration even with dampener. I am betting velocity eliminates that. It never noticed any vibration before with Yonex ... which really shows how muted the V1 Pros are.

 

[liftordie]

Off pace shots? What are those?

The only thing I sometimes struggle with is mini tennis with my 16x19 frames. I'm not sure O/V is the best setup for "brushy" tennis. A low tension shaped poly is likely better for that. Or super high tension gut.

But my touch shots with my 93P are really nice with this setup. An 18x20 string bed really adds further taming to the string bed and gives very nice control and I get fabulous pop from the stringbed on full shots.

That's totally right. O/V is not for 16x19 power spin frame. But with 18x20 control frame, it is for sure the best comfortable and durable setup with impressive performance that you can find!!

 

[Dartagnan64]

"Off pace shots? What are those?"

I am the pitcher without a 100 mph fast ball ... I have to move it around the plate.

Oh I hear you. But my 80 mph screwball is still a full pace shot for me. Only thing I let up on are lobs and drop shots. Everything else is coming as hard as my feeble old body can muster.

That's totally right. O/V is not for 16x19 power spin frame. But with 18x20 control frame, it is for sure the best comfortable and durable setup with impressive performance that you can find!!

It's definitely been a great string hybrid in my 93P. I think my Phantom 100's would play better with gut/poly. But I'd have to be brave enough to go with poly again.

Sadly I think the best strings for the Pure Aeros and Pure Drives of the world is full poly and that's just a recipe for disaster for a lot of rec players. Been there, done that. Came out scarred but better for it on the other side.

 

[Traffic]

"Off pace shots? What are those?"

I am the pitcher without a 100 mph fast ball ... I have to move it around the plate.

Yeah ... I won't be judging strings by lame mini tennis.

I am getting my old Yonex RDIS 200 re-strung ... and had to pick a string. I almost went with cyclone tour to just have one "spinny" racquet, but ended up going fb Velocity 54/52 ... to compare to the old xcel that was in the racquet. I notice going from V1 Pro to Yonex w/xcel ... I feel some vibration even with dampener. I am betting velocity eliminates that. It never noticed any vibration before with Yonex ... which really shows how muted the V1 Pros are.

Would be curious to hear your comparison on the two different frames with fb Velocity.
Ha, mini tennis is such a sham. In my 7.0MXD, the female did mini tennis like a 2.5 player. When we got to practicing serves, she returned all of my kicker serves. That's BS. Good 3.5 females have a hard time with my kickers.

Come to find out she had an awesome BH that was owning us. (but not much of a FH). So when I finally served some slop spin to her FH, we got some easy points as she threw up some wounded ducks to my partner at net. My partner gave her slice serves to her FH and I got to practice OH bouncing to the curtains.

 

[Traffic]

Sadly I think the best strings for the Pure Aeros and Pure Drives of the world is full poly and that's just a recipe for disaster for a lot of rec players. Been there, done that. Came out scarred but better for it on the other side.

I loved my Pure Drive. Had I known about strings, I would have used NXT, Velocity or NRG. I'm sure I would have been just fine. But dead Hurricane did me in.

I like to think I pitch like Jamie Moyer with three speeds of pitches; slow, slower and even slower yet.

 

[liftordie]

I think my Phantom 100's would play better with gut/poly. But I'd have to be brave enough to go with poly again.

Sadly I think the best strings for the Pure Aeros and Pure Drives of the world is full poly and that's just a recipe for disaster for a lot of rec players. Been there, done that. Came out scarred but better for it on the other side.

I will try VS Touch 16/Max Power Rough 17 pretty soon. My first gut/poly hybrid... Can't wait!!
What you think about 53/49 tension in Pure Aero?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Would be curious to hear your comparison on the two different frames with fb Velocity.
Ha, mini tennis is such a sham. In my 7.0MXD, the female did mini tennis like a 2.5 player. When we got to practicing serves, she returned all of my kicker serves. That's BS. Good 3.5 females have a hard time with my kickers.

Come to find out she had an awesome BH that was owning us. (but not much of a FH). So when I finally served some slop spin to her FH, we got some easy points as she threw up some wounded ducks to my partner at net. My partner gave her slice serves to her FH and I got to practice OH bouncing to the curtains.

I should get to hit it tomorrow morning. I think it is lower power than V1 Pro (Yonex 11ish even balance RA 60). I strung it at same tension I have in one of the V1 Pros. The xcel was 15g strung over two years ago @55. Maybe xcel gains vibration sitting in bag for two years.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Would be curious to hear your comparison on the two different frames with fb Velocity.
Ha, mini tennis is such a sham. In my 7.0MXD, the female did mini tennis like a 2.5 player. When we got to practicing serves, she returned all of my kicker serves. That's BS. Good 3.5 females have a hard time with my kickers.

Come to find out she had an awesome BH that was owning us. (but not much of a FH). So when I finally served some slop spin to her FH, we got some easy points as she threw up some wounded ducks to my partner at net. My partner gave her slice serves to her FH and I got to practice OH bouncing to the curtains.

btw ... I think string pattern must matter much more with spin than the string. The Yonex RDIS 200 is a pretty open 16x19 ... and I have played with rpm blast 16 in it. I hit a Wilson Burn 18x16 with isospeed baseline control 16 ... and not even close Burn was WAY more spin. If a rec player is trying to be Nadal ... go straight to the spin racquet ... holy cr@p.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Oh I hear you. But my 80 mph screwball is still a full pace shot for me. Only thing I let up on are lobs and drop shots. Everything else is coming as hard as my feeble old body can muster.




It's definitely been a great string hybrid in my 93P. I think my Phantom 100's would play better with gut/poly. But I'd have to be brave enough to go with poly again.

Sadly I think the best strings for the Pure Aeros and Pure Drives of the world is full poly and that's just a recipe for disaster for a lot of rec players. Been there, done that. Came out scarred but better for it on the other side.

I forgot to mention my flat serve is making a comeback with v1 pro with o/v. The v1 pro with o/v is 11.4 static weight ... and the flat serve with o/v feels as good a setup as I have served with for flat serves. Not sure why, but kicker not more than fb v ... but groundstrokes have more topspin. Probably a rhs threshold thing.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Would be curious to hear your comparison on the two different frames with fb Velocity.
Ha, mini tennis is such a sham. In my 7.0MXD, the female did mini tennis like a 2.5 player. When we got to practicing serves, she returned all of my kicker serves. That's BS. Good 3.5 females have a hard time with my kickers.

Come to find out she had an awesome BH that was owning us. (but not much of a FH). So when I finally served some slop spin to her FH, we got some easy points as she threw up some wounded ducks to my partner at net. My partner gave her slice serves to her FH and I got to practice OH bouncing to the curtains.

Hit Yonex with fb Velocity today. I also hit with v1 pro with fb velocity.

I could feel a little vibration with Yonex with fb xcel (old) ... and none with fb Velocity. Velocity felt good in Yonex, but flexy (RA 60) just isn't my preference. I had played some of my best baseline tennis in the past with Yonex and RPM ... even while not liking the flex. Go figure. The 68 RA V1 Pro with fb Velocity just feels much better ... although I would take the Yonex grip. I felt the Yonex flex the worse on serves ... actually did not like it at all.

Maybe next season might try fb cyclone tour @50 (racquet needs the added power) for grins ... but now just a third racquet in the bag. I like having a racquet I can let someone else hit ... keep your hands off my V1 Pros.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I will try VS Touch 16/Max Power Rough 17 pretty soon. My first gut/poly hybrid... Can't wait!!
What you think about 53/49 tension in Pure Aero?

String the gut above 55 and the poly below 50. I've definitely done a 10lb differential in a gut/poly hybrid in my old Pure Drive and it was excellent for topspin without being a rocket launcher.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I loved my Pure Drive. Had I known about strings, I would have used NXT, Velocity or NRG. I'm sure I would have been just fine. But dead Hurricane did me in.

I like to think I pitch like Jamie Moyer with three speeds of pitches; slow, slower and even slower yet.

I went to multis and my arm, while not getting much worse just couldn't get better while still playing. Went to multis in a Wilson Blade, and a little bit better but still issues. FInally went to the Prince Phantom and after the first hit, it was night and day better.

So I'm not sure it's always the strings, especially once you've got full blown TE. I think light stiff rackets are a problem a lot of the times as well. I really liked baseline rallies and flat serves with a Pure Drive, but playing with the Prince Phantom 93P has really developed my game because that stick does everything so well.

 

[liftordie]

String the gut above 55 and the poly below 50. I've definitely done a 10lb differential in a gut/poly hybrid in my old Pure Drive and it was excellent for topspin without being a rocket launcher.

57/49?

 

[ByeByePoly]

I went to multis and my arm, while not getting much worse just couldn't get better while still playing. Went to multis in a Wilson Blade, and a little bit better but still issues. FInally went to the Prince Phantom and after the first hit, it was night and day better.

So I'm not sure it's always the strings, especially once you've got full blown TE. I think light stiff rackets are a problem a lot of the times as well. I really liked baseline rallies and flat serves with a Pure Drive, but playing with the Prince Phantom 93P has really developed my game because that stick does everything so well.

My stringer sold me the Yonex years ago ... it was a demo and lighter version of the RDIS 200 I had bought at TW I think. At the time, he made the comment it was the type of racquet made for fb gut. He may have had a point.

I think @Traffic 's L/V would work in it.

 

[Dartagnan64]

57/49?

Better idea!

 

[ByeByePoly]

I went to multis and my arm, while not getting much worse just couldn't get better while still playing. Went to multis in a Wilson Blade, and a little bit better but still issues. FInally went to the Prince Phantom and after the first hit, it was night and day better.

So I'm not sure it's always the strings, especially once you've got full blown TE. I think light stiff rackets are a problem a lot of the times as well. I really liked baseline rallies and flat serves with a Pure Drive, but playing with the Prince Phantom 93P has really developed my game because that stick does everything so well.

Basically ... me and @Traffic are playing with a more comfortable Pure Drive with a tighter string pattern.

 

[liftordie]

Better idea!

Sure it will not be too harsh?

 

[scf]

I've started to play with cream/black fire hybrid. The latest stringjob I did is bf mains, cream crosses string using sergetti method (ref tension is 22/21kg). Was comfy from the very first hit in TC100 70RA.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Sure it will not be too harsh?

Gut is never harsh no matter the tension. It's elasticity always provides shock absorption. It's polyester and its utter lack of elasticity that can be harsh even at low tensions.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Gut is never harsh no matter the tension. It's elasticity always provides shock absorption. It's polyester and its utter lack of elasticity that can be harsh even at low tensions.

Your strings can stretch and break, or your tendons can stretch and break. Restringing tendons is a biatch.

Edit: give me nylon freedom or give me tendon death.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Basically ... me and @Traffic are playing with a more comfortable Pure Drive with a tighter string pattern.

The C10 pro? I think it's a lot closer to my phantoms than it is to a Pure Drive. It probably is most similar to a ProStaff or Prestige Pro, or even a Pure Strike.

But that's just looking at the specs. Never played one myself. But even the product description is the antithesis of the Pure Drive line in every way lol.

"the C10 Pro is a classic player's racquet with impressive plow-through and pinpoint accuracy. It maintains the same specs that have made it a proven performer for advanced and pro level players seeking control and a softer feel."

 

[liftordie]

Gut is never harsh no matter the tension. It's elasticity always provides shock absorption. It's polyester and its utter lack of elasticity that can be harsh even at low tensions.

Will test 55/49. Too high differential tension is not good in 16x19 pattern like my Pure Aero.

 

[ByeByePoly]

The C10 pro? I think it's a lot closer to my phantoms than it is to a Pure Drive. It probably is most similar to a ProStaff or Prestige Pro, or even a Pure Strike.

But that's just looking at the specs. Never played one myself. But even the product description is the antithesis of the Pure Drive line in every way lol.

"the C10 Pro is a classic player's racquet with impressive plow-through and pinpoint accuracy. It maintains the same specs that have made it a proven performer for advanced and pro level players seeking control and a softer feel."

No ... V1 Pros ... it's in our signatures which you probably don't see on your phone. I have the Organix V1 Pro (two versions back), and Mr. @Traffic has the SuperG V1 Pro (one version back). The Pure Drive was basically 11.4 oz ... 3-4 HL, 72 RA, fairly open 16x19. The V1 Pros are 11.2ish ... 1 HL, 68 RA (but somehow still plays crazy comfortable) ... and tighter center 8 mains on 16x19. It actually reminds me of the Pure Drive (I only hit mine ... 2012) with weight and balance ... and thinking almost anyone could hit both racquets. Very easy to play ... even if not exactly what one was looking for. I went from Pure Drive ... to 11.7 oz Yonex RDIS 200 60ish RA ... then to the lighter version of RDIS 200 ... 11.2 (11.7 was too heavy for me at the time ... would be ok now). A brief stop with previous Pure Strike (think that one finished off my TE) ... and then V1 Pro with fb vs gut. The V1 Pro feels very Pure Driveish to me ... but splits the difference between the flexy player sticks and the Pure Drives. I prefer the V1 Pro 68 over the Pure Drive 72 and the flexy 60ish... this is about the perfect stiffness range for me.

I play with tournagrip (two grips on one of the V1 Pros ... I have two) ... and dampeners/rubberband ... one V1 Pro at 11.4 oz 2-3ish hl, and other at 11.6 3-4ish hl.

 

[Traffic]

The C10 pro? I think it's a lot closer to my phantoms than it is to a Pure Drive. It probably is most similar to a ProStaff or Prestige Pro, or even a Pure Strike.

But that's just looking at the specs. Never played one myself. But even the product description is the antithesis of the Pure Drive line in every way lol.

"the C10 Pro is a classic player's racquet with impressive plow-through and pinpoint accuracy. It maintains the same specs that have made it a proven performer for advanced and pro level players seeking control and a softer feel."

Yup, @ByeByePoly has the first gen V1Pro and I have the 2nd. The V-Sense is the 3rd and current.

I've actually weighted my racquets to be 11.4oz strung (I don't use a damper). It does hit with a lower launch angle than the Pure Drive. Though I can generate just as much spin; I just have to be more purposeful about it.

It's interesting how a damper or overgrip and even strings can change the balance...

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yup, @ByeByePoly has the first gen V1Pro and I have the 2nd. The V-Sense is the 3rd and current.

I've actually weighted my racquets to be 11.4oz strung (I don't use a damper). It does hit with a lower launch angle than the Pure Drive. Though I can generate just as much spin; I just have to be more purposeful about it.

It's interesting how a damper or overgrip and even strings can change the balance...

I don't think I could match the Pure Drive spin ... but I will never know because I'm not putting RPM Blast in the V1. I have as much chance playing without a dampener as I do without tournagrip ... which is zero. But on the 11.6 V1, I use the rubberband ... works the same. I actually prefer 11.2 - 11.4 ... 3-4 hl for matches, but the 11.6 is fine (maybe even helpful) for hitting the ball machine. I thought I wouldn't like going lighter 11.4 with 2hbh, but the Yonex 11.2 felt fine. At some point around 11.7 I start not liking it on the FH. Technique flaw or preference ... not sure ... just prefer lighter. Actually ... if all I ever hit was FHs (jeeze ... sad thought) 10.8 would be fine.

Thank goodness I love my racquets ... it would not be good to do with racquets what I have done with strings.

 

[Traffic]

I think @Traffic 's L/V would work in it.

The most comfortable, control, feel, spin, consistent setup I've played with.
V/C is great too. But then I can't call myself a gut snob. Actually, my son was helping out with warm-ups at my 7.0MXD match over the weekend and he used my V/C racquet. After the match, the racquets got placed in different compartments than I'm used to. So unbeknownst to me, I was playing with L/C in my Flights warm-up.

What I noticed is: Slightly lower launch angle. So a bit less net clearance and a bit less spin. Maaaaybe a touch less power. Or was that the spin talking...

*edit...got my Vs and Ls mixed up...

 

[Traffic]

I don't think I could match the Pure Drive spin ... but I will never know because I'm not putting RPM Blast in the V1. I have as much chance playing without a dampener as I do without tournagrip ... which is zero. But on the 11.6 V1, I use the rubberband ... works the same. I actually prefer 11.2 - 11.4 ... 3-4 hl for matches, but the 11.6 is fine (maybe even helpful) for hitting the ball machine. I thought I wouldn't like going lighter 11.4 with 2hbh, but the Yonex 11.2 felt fine. At some point around 11.7 I start not liking it on the FH. Technique flaw or preference ... not sure ... just prefer lighter. Actually ... if all I ever hit was FHs (jeeze ... sad thought) 10.8 would be fine.

Thank goodness I love my racquets ... it would not be good to do with racquets what I have done with strings.

I seem to hit a little better with a more even balanced racquet (V/C). The L/C is a touch more HL. I actually had to put some tape on the hoop to get the balance to feel a little closer to the V/C stick. I tend to get a bit lazy when it is too HL. Swing too late as I can get the racquet around quicker. My timing is better using the more even balanced.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I seem to hit a little better with a more even balanced racquet (V/C). The L/C is a touch more HL. I actually had to put some tape on the hoop to get the balance to feel a little closer to the V/C stick. I tend to get a bit lazy when it is too HL. Swing too late as I can get the racquet around quicker. My timing is better using the more even balanced.

VS Gut was a lot heavier than Velocity. That is another good thing about Origin ... pretty light like Velocity. Usually I would say string weight is nitpicking ... but with our racquets if you wanted it as HL as possible, strings start to matter. When you start from 1-2 HL ... and you don't want more static weight ... not a lot of options. That change your racquet from 11.2 to 11.7 so it will be more HL never made any sense to me. If I want a 11.2ish racquet, it means I did not want a 11.7ish racquet. DOH!!!

 

[Dartagnan64]

No ... V1 Pros ... it's in our signatures which you probably don't see on your phone. I have the Organix V1 Pro (two versions back), and Mr. @Traffic has the SuperG V1 Pro (one version back). The Pure Drive was basically 11.4 oz ... 3-4 HL, 72 RA, fairly open 16x19. The V1 Pros are 11.2ish ... 1 HL, 68 RA (but somehow still plays crazy comfortable) ... and tighter center 8 mains on 16x19. It actually reminds me of the Pure Drive (I only hit mine ... 2012) with weight and balance ... and thinking almost anyone could hit both racquets. Very easy to play ... even if not exactly what one was looking for. I went from Pure Drive ... to 11.7 oz Yonex RDIS 200 60ish RA ... then to the lighter version of RDIS 200 ... 11.2 (11.7 was too heavy for me at the time ... would be ok now). A brief stop with previous Pure Strike (think that one finished off my TE) ... and then V1 Pro with fb vs gut. The V1 Pro feels very Pure Driveish to me ... but splits the difference between the flexy player sticks and the Pure Drives. I prefer the V1 Pro 68 over the Pure Drive 72 and the flexy 60ish... this is about the perfect stiffness range for me.

I play with tournagrip (two grips on one of the V1 Pros ... I have two) ... and dampeners/rubberband ... one V1 Pro at 11.4 oz 2-3ish hl, and other at 11.6 3-4ish hl.

Here I was all the while thinking you were using the C10 pros. So much for my reading skills. Yes the V1 Pro are a bit more into the tweener than players category.
I can now see why fb Origin was a rocket launcher for you. Definitely need to mute power on those kinds of rackets.

I'm mostly using a 93P these days and that thing can handle the most powerful string you can throw at it. It needs slippery crosses to avoid string bed lockup though. Really nice stick but requires you to be focused.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Here I was all the while thinking you were using the C10 pros. So much for my reading skills. Yes the V1 Pro are a bit more into the tweener than players category.
I can now see why fb Origin was a rocket launcher for you. Definitely need to mute power on those kinds of rackets.

I'm mostly using a 93P these days and that thing can handle the most powerful string you can throw at it. It needs slippery crosses to avoid string bed lockup though. Really nice stick but requires you to be focused.

My one trip to flexy racquet land was challenging finding a string that felt good and played good. I ended up settling for the played good with rpm.

My Organix V1 Pro was the lowest powered of the three according to the reviews. It is definitely lower power than the Pure Drive. I have come away thinking 65-68 RA is about right for me ... but I guess that probably varies between racquet flex locations (hoop, etc).

 

[Dartagnan64]

My one trip to flexy racquet land was challenging finding a string that felt good and played good. I ended up settling for the played good with rpm.

My Organix V1 Pro was the lowest powered of the three according to the reviews. It is definitely lower power than the Pure Drive. I have come away thinking 65-68 RA is about right for me ... but I guess that probably varies between racquet flex locations (hoop, etc).

Well if you ever get a chance to demo the Phantom 93P, I'd give it a whirl. Might change your mind about flexy land.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Well if you ever get a chance to demo the Phantom 93P, I'd give it a whirl. Might change your mind about flexy land.

I did not hear that .... blah blah blah

 

[BenC]

So .. I guess I'm a new convert to using Cream in a hybrid setup (with Forten Sweet 16 synthetic gut crosses, have a reel of the stuff that I'm working through).

Similar situation as the OP, played tennis through HS and stopped for over 15 years, started up again, tried poly, got TE. Stopped again for 3 months and swore I'd stay with full-bed syngut (Forten Sweet 16 at 55lbs) but I really missed the control, spin, and pocketing of poly.

Also tried Kirschbaum Pro Line II mains with syngut crosses but my elbow started to ache even from 10 minutes of mini tennis warming up.

I then tried Cream mains and Forten crosses both at 50 lbs and I am shocked that my elbow is completely fine after 2 rallying sessions of 2 hours each. My Gamma string tester tool is also not showing any measurable tension loss in the Cream mains yet. If this continues I'll probably switch to this setup permanently.

 

[ByeByePoly]

So .. I guess I'm a new convert to using Cream in a hybrid setup (with Forten Sweet 16 synthetic gut crosses, have a reel of the stuff that I'm working through).

Similar situation as the OP, played tennis through HS and stopped for over 15 years, started up again, tried poly, got TE. Stopped again for 3 months and swore I'd stay with full-bed syngut (Forten Sweet 16 at 55lbs) but I really missed the control, spin, and pocketing of poly.

Also tried Kirschbaum Pro Line II mains with syngut crosses but my elbow started to ache even from 10 minutes of mini tennis warming up.

I then tried Cream mains and Forten crosses both at 50 lbs and I am shocked that my elbow is completely fine after 2 rallying sessions of 2 hours each. My Gamma string tester tool is also not showing any measurable tension loss in the Cream mains yet. If this continues I'll probably switch to this setup permanently.

That's excellent. Post again after more hours ... sometimes I get my elbow warning signs after 6ish hours.

 

[CiscoPC600]

To any of the hybrid users here, did you ever use Isospeed Cream for a fullbed? Seems like it's soft enough to not be an issue.