Osaka's emphatic win over Gauff shows how much WTA has declined recently ?

[ND-13]

If Osaka can play to her level, there is not a chance Sabalenka, Swiatek or Gauff can win any HC major.

Swiatek is a legitimately good clay court.

The grass surface has become a free for all.

While there may not be another Serena, when do we get the next string of exceptional players ? Gauff and Aryna are serious stepdown in tennis quality, even from the likes of Barty.

 

[MrFlip]

Osaka lost to Mboko at BO3 Final, who lost R1 US Open

This is modern tennis and the WTA.

Gauff is not a great player and has been gifted two slams by a mentally unstable Sabalenka.

 

[Bartelby]

Osaka looked very good apart from her serve yips issue.

 

[ND-13]

Osaka lost to Mboko at BO3 Final, who lost R1 US Open

This is modern tennis and the WTA.

Gauff is not a great player and has been gifted two slams by a mentally unstable Sabalenka.

We know Osaka has taken lot of time to get back to her top, but we know when she plays well, the quality is atrociously good.

Can we say the same ever about Gauff or Aryna ?

Pegula and Navarro - dont have any weapons and are staple top 10
Keys - makes so many errors in any match.

I like the Czechs - Muchova, Krejcikova and Vondrousova, however they are unfortunately always injured. Rybakina is inconsistent. It was painful to watch last night.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Gauff is not a great player and has been gifted two slams by a mentally unstable Sabalenka.

Coco has her own mental problems. Why is a mega-wealthy coddled and pampered multiple slam winner supposedly having panic attacks? What does she have to be whiny and disgruntled about? Pathetic.What is her story?

Gauff suffers panic attack on court which saw US Open star break down in tears

COCO GAUFF says the reason she broke down in tears on court last week was due to a panic attack. But the highest-paid female sportswomen in the world has taken counsel from gymnastics legend Simone…

www.the-sun.com

 

[wang07]

Don't lump Gauff together with Swiatek and Sabalenka, the latter 2 have dominant games that they impose on others. Coco is a retriever in a slump. She has 2 slams because she took advantage of Aryna's shortcomings as a competitor.

 

[TennisTurkey]

I think Osaka's resurgence might say more about Moorootwoglue.

 

[Bartelby]

Osaka is much ova you!

Coco has her own mental problems. Why is a mega-wealthy coddled and pampered multiple slam winner having panic attacks? Pathetic. What is her story?

 

[MrFlip]

Coco has her own mental problems. Why is a mega-wealthy coddled and pampered multiple slam winner having panic attacks? Pathetic. What is her story?

Hasn't been shelled by Germans in a war to know how good she's actually got it

 

[MrFlip]

We know Osaka has taken lot of time to get back to her top, but we know when she plays well, the quality is atrociously good.

Can we say the same ever about Gauff or Aryna ?

Pegula and Navarro - dont have any weapons and are staple top 10
Keys - makes so many errors in any match.

I like the Czechs - Muchova, Krejcikova and Vondrousova, however they are unfortunately always injured. Rybakina is inconsistent. It was painful to watch last night.

Yeah don't hang anything up on any player. The winner will look obvious from the QTRs or SF. Osaka lost a set to Kasatkina, where's the explanation of how good she is there?

Swiatek demolished Alexandrova, yet struggled against Lamens.

Osaka looked cruising to a win yet lost the F in Toronto....

You make it make sense

 

[ND-13]

Yeah don't hang anything up on any player. The winner will look obvious from the QTRs or SF. Osaka lost a set to Kasatkina, where's the explanation of how good she is there?

Swiatek demolished Alexandrova, yet struggled against Lamens.

Osaka looked cruising to a win yet lost the F in Toronto....

You make it make sense

I dont mind top players losing a set here and there, but my point is about the quality of the top player. I think we are missing the likes of players like Barty, Halep, Muguruza, Kvitova, Azarenka.

 

[MrFlip]

I dont mind top players losing a set here and there, but my point is about the quality of the top player. I think we are missing the likes of players like Barty, Halep, Muguruza, Kvitova, Azarenka.

Absolutely. Both ATP and WTA players these days miss a shot and have a meltdown.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Listen up.
We were lucky to see Osaka today getting back to her old slam form.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves!

This doesn't mean that from here on in Osaka will lock in this form and carry it forward for a few years,
let alone for a few more matches!
Such is the state of players these days. They are a fickle lot.

Osaka has to gain confidence from today and realize she is really back to her old form.
And she has to have the drive to want to put in the hard work to maintain this level!

Easier said than done.

 

[ND-13]

Listen up.
We were lucky to see Osaka today getting back to her old slam form.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves!

This doesn't mean that from here on in Osaka will lock in this form and carry it forward for a few years,
let alone for a few more matches!
Such is the state of players these days. They are a fickle lot.

Osaka has to gain confidence from today and realize she is really back to her old form.
And she has to have the drive to want to put in the hard work to maintain this level!

Easier said than done.

The point is not whether Osaka is truly back. It is more about the lack of talent in top 10 in WTA

 

[RSJfan]

Coco has her own mental problems…

Keep your eye on the prize. A pastrami sandwich for Raul. Nice line this evening for your fav pastrami:

 

[buttman]

this might be unrelated, but do u guys know why osaka represents japan?

 

[Mark-Touch]

The point is not whether Osaka is truly back. It is more about the lack of talent in top 10 in WTA

Well to answer your question in the title...
No, I don't think the WTA declined recently.
It is what it is.
Let's put it this way.
Had Naomi not 'gone away' the past few years she would be sitting at or near the top
of the heap.

 

[Bartelby]

We have a Russian representing Australia and, yes, this country-switching is a relatively new phenomenon.

Osaka had a choice due to her parents and she chose Japan. This would be less controversial as a result.

this might be unrelated, but do u guys know why osaka represents japan?

 

[No_Kwan_Do]

It was a minor miracle that Gauff made it as far as she did with her serve. As soon as she came up against a half-decent opponent, it was curtains for her.

 

[Mark-Touch]

this might be unrelated, but do u guys know why osaka represents japan?

I think it has something to do with where she was born.

 

[Open Stance]

I think it has something to do with where she was born.

And a crap ton of money in endorsement deals considering she’s lived in the U.S. her entire life.

 

[ey039524]

Osaka looks as physically fit as ever. Don't forget that she was one point away from beating iga at her peak dominance on her best surface, shortly after having a baby. Osaka has always had the skills, she just needs to remain confident. It seems it's coming back. We'll see when she runs into iga again or Saba.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I don't think it's a sign that the tour is bad, rather that Naomi Osaka is a world class ball striker who was always going to get seriously dangerous again once she got fully fit and adjusted to life back on tour.

While any win against Gauff will be good for Osaka mentally, I don't know how much to read into this specific victory as Gauff has been HORRIBLE so far this US Open.

She is right in the middle of making quite serious technical changes which have temporarily thrown her game into chaos.

 

[RaulRamirez]

I don't think so.
Coco is struggling with her serve, but at age 21 with two slams under her belt and another final, she's very solid.

Saba and Iga are a very solid 1-2 punch, and while Rybakina has not had the projected results, there are at least 15-20 women who can really play behind them. And we have at least two very promising teens, led by Andreeva and Mboko.

 

[zagor]

Don't lump Gauff together with Swiatek and Sabalenka, the latter 2 have dominant games that they impose on others. Coco is a retriever in a slump. She has 2 slams because she took advantage of Aryna's shortcomings as a competitor.

That's nonsense, winning by keeping the ball in play is still winning. Coco has 2 slams at 21, not too shabby.

Yeah she has quite a few holes in her game but she's a great athlete and has grit.

 

[zagor]

I don't think it's a sign that the tour is bad, rather that Naomi Osaka is a world class ball striker who was always going to get seriously dangerous again once she got fully fit and adjusted to life back on tour.

While any win against Gauff will be good for Osaka mentally, I don't know how much to read into this specific victory as Gauff has been HORRIBLE so far this US Open.

She is right in the middle of making quite serious technical changes which have temporarily thrown her game into chaos.

Fiddling with serve biomechanics so close to the USO was probably not the best idea in retrospect.

And Osaka can be a monster on HC, even on the comeback trail.

 

[ForehandCross]

I am not a WTA expert, but even after removing my bias for Swiatek, she remains the only player that screams ATG.

When she locks in, her level is very high and her game is very very complete.

And she can bring 10/10 level to any surface. Even on grass while the final was completely AA being too timid, the semi final performance from Iga was an outstanding lights out performance and people forgot about it.

The rest? Sabalenka feels too inconsistent within the match. Elena is great but needs to translate things into results.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Fiddling with serve biomechanics so close to the USO was probably not the best idea in retrospect.

And Osaka can be a monster on HC, even on the comeback trail.

Coco acknowledged beforehand it might not be ideal for her USO campaign but she said was thinking long plan

 

[Dominic & Andrey]

A very raw and young Sabalenka had a 4-4 H2H against Barty. Barty was also never as consistent as Sabalenka has been since 2023.

Barty was great but she has been retrospectively overrated because of her pleasant game. Thinking Aryna is a stepdown from her is a very weird take. Thinking Sabalenka or Swiatek have no chance whatsoever against Osaka because the latter destroyed the worst version of Gauff is also odd.

The WTA can still be a mess at times but right now it's more compelling than the ATP in a lot of ways, you have two very consistent players in Swiatek and Sabalenka, but you also have other players who yes, can sometimes embarrassing themselves but on the upside some have a high peak and can actually challenge the two dominant ones.

 

[marc45]

if Osaka continues to move and strike the ball the way she did against Gauff she immediately moves into a tier at the top with Iga, Sabs, sometimes Coco, and the best of the rest...an immediate contender at every hardcourt slam, a threat on clay, and a work in progress on grass

 

[ibbi]

Declined recently? The WTA has been basically trash for almost 20 years now. That's how Serena could continue dominating it with her serve even as she got old and fat. Every time a good player or two threatened to rise up and be consistently strong - Halep, Garbine, Kerber, etc. Something happened, and they didn't.

Iga and Aryna right now is as good as it has been since the golden age of the early/mid 00s. If Naomi can get back in the picture, even if only on the hard courts where her entire career success has been, it'll be great.

 

[thrust]

Don't lump Gauff together with Swiatek and Sabalenka, the latter 2 have dominant games that they impose on others. Coco is a retriever in a slump. She has 2 slams because she took advantage of Aryna's shortcomings as a competitor.

Still, Gauff did fairly win her two slams and deserves credit for those results.

 

[buscemi]

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Yes, Osaka was in complete control and looked totally dominant yesterday. OTOH, she's had some amazing performances since her comeback and followed them up with poor performances. Overall, she hasn't won a title since February 2021. I could easily see her winning this tournament or falling short once again.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Yes, Osaka was in complete control and looked totally dominant yesterday. OTOH, she's had some amazing performances since her comeback and followed them up with poor performances. Overall, she hasn't won a title since February 2021. I could easily see her winning this tournament or falling short once again.

This time it is different. She has finally addressed her weight problem so she could be a threat.

 

[Quaichang]

this might be unrelated, but do u guys know why osaka represents japan?

She earns more endorsement money as a Japanese.

 

[SonnyT]

That was not Coco's true potential, she was nervous or something!

The winner of tournament will be Swiatek or Osaka!

 

[buscemi]

This time it is different. She has finally addressed her weight problem so she could be a threat.

It looked that way in Canada as well, and then we all saw what happened in the final. I like Osaka's odds to take the title here, but it wouldn't shock me at all if she falls short.

 

[a10best]

We know Osaka has taken lot of time to get back to her top, but we know when she plays well, the quality is atrociously good.

Can we say the same ever about Gauff or Aryna ?

Pegula and Navarro - dont have any weapons and are staple top 10
Keys - makes so many errors in any match.

I like the Czechs - Muchova, Krejcikova and Vondrousova, however they are unfortunately always injured. Rybakina is inconsistent. It was painful to watch last night.

Agree with everything except that Navarro is top 10. For me, she's a staple 20-30 player. She literally has zero weapons and is a weak defender.

I know you don't need my validation just saying.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Declined recently? The WTA has been basically trash for almost 20 years now. That's how Serena could continue dominating it with her serve even as she got old and fat. Every time a good player or two threatened to rise up and be consistently strong - Halep, Garbine, Kerber, etc. Something happened, and they didn't.

Iga and Aryna right now is as good as it has been since the golden age of the early/mid 00s. If Naomi can get back in the picture, even if only on the hard courts where her entire career success has been, it'll be great.

 

[medieval_remnant]

Coco has her own mental problems. Why is a mega-wealthy coddled and pampered multiple slam winner supposedly having panic attacks? What does she have to be whiny and disgruntled about? Pathetic.What is her story?

Gauff suffers panic attack on court which saw US Open star break down in tears

COCO GAUFF says the reason she broke down in tears on court last week was due to a panic attack. But the highest-paid female sportswomen in the world has taken counsel from gymnastics legend Simone…

www.the-sun.com

I actually think Gauff is mentally strong. What hurts her is her occasional lack of athleticism. Huh?! you say. She loses balance of her lanky frame.

 

[medieval_remnant]

It was a minor miracle that Gauff made it as far as she did with her serve. As soon as she came up against a half-decent opponent, it was curtains for her.

Never mind the double faults, is Gauff's serve easy to read? Genuinely asking

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

It looked that way in Canada as well, and then we all saw what happened in the final. I like Osaka's odds to take the title here, but it wouldn't shock me at all if she falls short.

Keep in mind that her next opponent Muchova gets rattled when USO crowds get behind her opponents. Muchova shockingly lost a set to the slow retired Venus.
This next match with Muchova should be an effective walkover for Osaka.

 

[ibbi]

Not even her biggest fans can deny this happened?!?!

 

[buscemi]

Keep in mind that her next opponent Muchova gets rattled when USO crowds get behind her opponents. Muchova shockingly lost a set to the slow retired Venus.
This next match with Muchova should be an effective walkover for Osaka.

Muchová beat Osaka, 6-3, 7-6 at the U.S. Open last year, so I certainly wouldn't say it's an effective walkover, although Naomi is playing a lo better now.

 

[SonnyT]

Coco lost in 4R, there are many players better than her!

 

[Jack the Hack]

27-year-old 4-time major champion (and former world #1) beats 21 year old 2-time major champion in her favorite tournament.

Surely, that is a clear sign of a WTA decline!

(/sarcasm)

 

[calbear2000]

At the risk of sounding a bit sexist, I think women are generally not as good at handling the mental struggles of being on tour. Compare Sinner's handling of his doping scandal and being suspended to Iga's minor controversy. It took a much bigger toll on Iga and her case definitely much easier than Sinner's. It's anecdotal and obviously Iga has much more of an anxious personality than Jannik. But also look at Gauff emotionally exploding after winning her 2nd round match. Yes, I get that there's pressure and she's had coaching changes but compare that to similar pressure faced on the men's side. Look at how Anisimova absolutely collapsed against Iga at Wimbledon. Obviously, it's not rocket science here to recognize that male and female biology is different.

Anyway, the point being that I think there's higher variability in the WTA because of these biological differences. There is less consistency.

Another way to look at it, is looking at the top 10.

ATP
Jannik Sinner
Carlos Alcaraz
Alexander Zverev
Taylor Fritz
Jack Draper
Ben Shelton
Novak Djokovic
Alex de Minaur
Karen Khachanov
Lorenzo Musetti

WTA
Aryna Sabalenka
Iga Swiatek
Coco Gauff
Jessica Pegula
Mirra Andreeva
Madison Keys
Qinwen Zheng
Jasmine Paolini
Amanda Anisimova
Elena Rybakina

In my opinion, the top 10 ATP makes sense and is a pretty fair sorting of talent, consistency and performance. It's representative of how the men play and generally predictive of results. But if you look at the WTA top 10, I'd say half the players there make sense while the other half are much less reliable in terms of performing at their rank. Gauff is definitely one of those. She does not feel like the #3 player (whereas Saba and Iga feel strongly like 1 and 2).

 

[NoleFam]

Gauff played terrible and has been since RG but Osaka was great, and it's great for the WTA to have her back in form and playing well again.

 

[pierceforehands]

Sexist poster. A 4 time Grand Slam winner still in her 20s, on a comeback from problems now 2 years into, scoring 1 good win shows the WTA sucks.

But a nearly 40 year old still being a top contender for slams shows the ATP is strong, LMFAO!

 

[Jonwj86]

Fiddling with serve biomechanics so close to the USO was probably not the best idea in retrospect.

And Osaka can be a monster on HC, even on the comeback trail.

She had to tinker with her serve, she was making 15+ double faults a match coming into the Open