Oscar Wegner Forehand is the same as Table Tennis Topspin Loop

[5263]

5. Does Oscar and his method have flaws?.... Your kidding yourself again mate...

So lets its tit for tat and will more than likely continue... all because you started it with your secret email / my(mine) **** forehand post... yeah I got it referenced you can't make that post disappear... So lets continue this adolescence conversation because you brought it down to this level...

So you can just say your previous comment was uncalled for and we can call it day...

What do you mean I'm kidding myself?? I said we all have flaws.
It's fine you referenced the post. I only removed part of that post to try to be kinder.
Just like the emails I received about your vid were trying to be kind and not
speak out so much towards another coach, but you keep talking like you know
a lot, ...but by your on words, we should judge by the vid that you have a ways to go.
The post was more than called for and should have just been made to start with about how poor the fh form was, but several folks made an effort to spare you the grief. wasted efforts I guess, sorry

 

[connico]

What do you mean I'm kidding myself?? I said we all have flaws.
It's fine you referenced the post. I only removed part of that post to try to be kinder.
Just like the emails I received about your vid were trying to be kind and not
speak out so much towards another coach, but you keep talking like you know
a lot, ...but by your on words, we should judge by the vid that you have a ways to go.
The post was more than called for and should have just been made to start with about how poor the fh form was, but several folks made an effort to spare you the grief. wasted efforts I guess, sorry

Lol, spare me... I would think you should spare yourself the trouble of commenting on anything.

So what is your USPTA rego number again....?

 

[5263]

So what is your USPTA rego number again....?

I don't need their insurance anymore.

 

[panatta]

Thank you, Oscar. Your forehand tecnique works very well. Does it work for the two handed backhand, as well? How does it apply to the backhand?

 

[5263]

Thank you, Oscar. Your forehand tecnique works very well. Does it work for the two handed backhand, as well? How does it apply to the backhand?

I will answer until he comes to answer himself.
The backhand in general works much the same.
Not stance dependent, and point the but cap at the ball,
pull towards the ball with the hand or hands, and find it from below,
that gets things moving forward for the "thru the ball" aspect,
then as contact is aligned in the slot, accel the hands "up and across"
to the opposite shoulder (standard finish but can vary)
all while staying on balance and stable.

hope this helps

 

[sureshs]

The wrist action in table tennis should never be emulated in tennis - can cause serious injuries. Other things to avoid is the excessive backhand slice, and excessive arm bends. I came into tennis after a TT background in childhood - one coach took a look and said did you play TT before, if so give up that style.

A few years ago, I started TT again at the local rec center, and now I was playing TT like tennis! That didn't work either. Finally, I decided not to mix them up.

 

[sureshs]

I think the double bend forehand goes ¨up and across¨ too, like loop table tennis and all forehands in the world.

Maybe a little in the penhold grip, but the more common shake hand grip does not have much of a double bend. Table tennis loops are, well, like loops, not like the "pull" action of tennis forehands at all.

The table tennis forehand and backhand are nothing at all like tennis and it is better to lose that muscle memory if you have it. Hand eye coordination and quicker reflexes are the only things to take with you.

 

[5263]

The wrist action in table tennis should never be emulated in tennis - can cause serious injuries. Other things to avoid is the excessive backhand slice, and excessive arm bends. I came into tennis after a TT background in childhood - one coach took a look and said did you play TT before, if so give up that style.

A few years ago, I started TT again at the local rec center, and now I was playing TT like tennis! That didn't work either. Finally, I decided not to mix them up.

I think this thread is more about using TT more like most rec plays use it and
not like a serious trained TT player.
You do make a good point about how tennis is not played like serious TT players do, although I can't be sure, because I don't see a lot of wrist use by the top players in the Olympics. Maybe it just happens to fast?
The wrist use I see is radial and ulnar deviation...which is good in tennis.

 

[sureshs]

I think this thread is more about using TT more like most rec plays use it and
not like a serious trained TT player.
You do make a good point about how tennis is not played like serious TT players do, although I can't be sure, because I don't see a lot of wrist use by the top players in the Olympics. Maybe it just happens to fast?
The wrist use I see is radial and ulnar deviation...which is good in tennis.

In TT, the bend in the wrist for the forehand loop is downward in the same plane as the swing to provide more torque. In tennis, the wrist bend seems to more perpendicular to this plane at the time of pointing the butt to the ball, and same plane movement is discouraged (the last instant flick done by many club players).

Actually, before I started tennis 9 years ago, my parents put me up to it when I was 16. They enrolled me in an expensive club where the "coaches" demanded tips for everything and I hated it (it was an elite outfit for the city aristocracy and a misfit for a working-man family - one of the clubs were Leander would eventually practice in and where Ramesh Krishnan used to hit when in town). I quit after a few weeks. I used a wooden racket. Those were the days of the straight take-back and precise flat hits which were not supposed to go more than 1 foot above the net. I was chastised endlessly by the "coach" (a glorified ball-boy) for my arm and wrist bends. He insisted on me forgetting all TT (though they had a TT room) and learning to keep my arm straight and rigid.

Things have changed somewhat since those days, I found the advice extremely useful when I started tennis again. The weight of the racket and ball in tennis are such that those elbow and wrist actions are outright dangerous.

You are right, the wrist action is endlessly debated on TT forums.

 

[mightyrick]

A properly executed forehand loop should have no wrist involvement at all. For a loop, the stroke is low to high finishing beside the head on the same side as the hitting arm. If the arm motion does anything else, it is fundamentally incorrect.

There's no up-and-across. There's no wrist "flick". If you hit a TT forehand loop using tennis mechanics, you will send the ball long every single time. If you hit a tennis forehand using proper TT mechancs, the ball will not even reach the net. A TT backhand isn't even in the same universe as a tennis backhand.

This thread really needs to die.

 

[5263]

There's no up-and-across.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0KOLRMipOM

The up and across could not be more obvious in this clip.
He state up and to the midline of the body, which requires an across motion.
Main difference I see is how the paddle in more in line with his arm, but
you can lay the paddle back more as well.

 

[sureshs]

Main difference I see is how the paddle in more in line with his arm, but
you can lay the paddle back more as well.

Yes that is the main difference. Any wrist motion is in the plane of the swing.

If you lay the paddle back, that is for penhold-grip smashes and flicks.

 

[mightyrick]

No you cannot lay the paddle back more as well. I'm going to just stop responding to this garbage. I really don't know why I get sucked in, but it keeps happening.

My last word is this:

To anybody who wants to play actual table tennis. You do NOT use any tennis mechanics. You do not use MTM principles to execute TT strokes. If you want to learn TT or how to improve your TT game, go to a TT club. Learn from the players there. Learn from the coaches there. Do not listen to any garbage like what is in this thread.

And I am speaking as an ex-TT competing player whose rating was just at 1600 in a strong region.

 

[5263]

this fellow lays it back just a bit-

http://www.monkeysee.com/play/9277-table-tennis-forehand-and-backhand

as does this one-
http://www.tabletennis.gr/chinese-forehand-foreward-loop-guide.html

you can really see the up and across and he specifies a strong up and across finish.

 

[5263]

No you cannot lay the paddle back more as well. I'm going to just stop responding to this garbage. I really don't know why I get sucked in, but it keeps happening.

My last word is this:

To anybody who wants to play actual table tennis. You do NOT use any tennis mechanics.
.

again, you seem to have this whole thing backwards...nobody is trying to use
tennis strokes to learn TT...
The idea is to use aspect of TT to help learn certain aspects of tennis strokes
AND
to use TT to be able to practice the aspects and timing to help with tennis.
Most of the top tennis players play quite a bit of TT for a reason.

The Chinese vid I posted showed how certain aspects are quite similar to good tennis strokes.
If you can't see that, it may show why you are better at TT than you are as a tennis player!

And yes, you can lay the paddle back a bit in TT, as I do it all the time.
The big difference is the way the tennis racket lends itself more to the prestretch due to it's wt and length.
To do it with TT you have to manually do it for the purpose of tennis.

 

[sureshs]

Which top player plays TT? I know the Bryans fool around with it a bit, but who else? Whoever plays TT also probably does it for the fun.

 

[sureshs]

I don't think the timing and strokes of TT are in any way beneficial to tennis. In fact, there is a strong danger of corrupting muscle memory. For a recreational player who also works on a computer, I would advice against spending time on TT due to the risk of wrist and elbow overuse.

But then I am typing here so I should not be talking about this.

 

[sureshs]

No you cannot lay the paddle back more as well. I'm going to just stop responding to this garbage. I really don't know why I get sucked in, but it keeps happening.

My last word is this:

To anybody who wants to play actual table tennis. You do NOT use any tennis mechanics. You do not use MTM principles to execute TT strokes. If you want to learn TT or how to improve your TT game, go to a TT club. Learn from the players there. Learn from the coaches there. Do not listen to any garbage like what is in this thread.

And I am speaking as an ex-TT competing player whose rating was just at 1600 in a strong region.

That is good. 1200 is roughly the 3.5 of the TT world and 2000+ is very advanced.

 

[5263]

Here are some videos of a table tennis topspin loop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11RBxeG-leg

BTW only fools relate professional table tennis to the ping pong they grew up playing with friends.

Here's Wegner talking about his style of forehand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxUPDHegz98

*I've played some club level table tennis (real table tennis) and the motion is very similar and natural when you use your core to rotate and then your arm/hand. -- Sort of like a hook shot in boxing.

Above is the OP which accurately comments on the obvious similarities between the TT topspin loop and the modern Fh. Yes, there are differences as well.
Seems the pingpong experts are trying to make this into something unrelated to the OP.

As to just a few of the Pros I'm aware of who played a lot of TT were Roddick, Fish, and Genepri, who used to train together some and have epic
TT battles I heard them discuss in an interview.
Also 2 Jrs my son and I trained with that both made top 5-6 in the US, both played quite a bit of TT. The #1 players on my son's D1 college team was a beast in TT.
As to timing, maybe it is better suited to doubles, but many times when I've
not been able to get to the courts due to the weather, I've used TT to warm up
my hand/eye along with my timing with great success. My 3 kids have experience the same.

 

[sureshs]

Hand-eye + timing + sense of spin: TT is good for that (compared to doing nothing). Many adults who have not played TT simply don't understand topspin.