Out call questioning... Am I in the wrong here?

[FriarTuck]

Background: So there's a guy that I previously worked with, have hit with, played league tennis with, etc. We get together and hit and play recreational singles matches every once in a while.

Situation: a couple weeks ago we got together to play some singles. My opponent had done an intense workout that morning so he told me he was not feeling real spry. He usually beats me so i always challenge myself to beat him.

So we start playing and we play a competitive first set but he wins 6-4. As we start the second set, it's obvious that he's getting fatigued and isn't really putting forth much of an effort. I Get up 4-0 or so. During a rally I hit a deep forehand that looked in to me but he called it out. I asked him if he was sure it was out. He said yes and I said okay. At the next changeover he asked me why I was getting on his case and questioning an out call. He said he's just out here to work on his game. I just explained that it looked in to me and he was facing the sun. I was just asking if he was sure. He got aggravated and said that he wouldn't call it out if it was even close, that's how he plays. Well, the week before we had played two high school kids that beat us badly and he called at least one obviously good serve as out and just winked at me. I brought up that fact and he got really aggravated and asked why i qas bringing up stuff from the past. As we played a few more games he refused to call any shots out, said he was going to leave it up to me. I just explained to him that according to the code I have the right to question an out call and then he has the right to confirm or change the call. He kept saying how we're just out here working on our games and that I was basically questioning his honesty.

My friend was getting increasingly upset as I just tried to explain that even if it's a recreational game I like to play by the rules and know if my shots are really in or out. This argument followed us all the way to the parking lot until he was very angrily telling me to get out of my car and call him a liar to his face (this is a 50 year old man; I'm 29).

So... Was I so wrong to question an out call in a "friendly" match? What say ye?

 

[OrangePower]

Background: So there's a guy that I previously worked with, have hit with, played league tennis with, etc. We get together and hit and play recreational singles matches every once in a while.

Situation: a couple weeks ago we got together to play some singles. My opponent had done an intense workout that morning so he told me he was not feeling real spry. He usually beats me so i always challenge myself to beat him.

So we start playing and we play a competitive first set but he wins 6-4. As we start the second set, it's obvious that he's getting fatigued and isn't really putting forth much of an effort. I Get up 4-0 or so. During a rally I hit a deep forehand that looked in to me but he called it out. I asked him if he was sure it was out. He said yes and I said okay. At the next changeover he asked me why I was getting on his case and questioning an out call. He said he's just out here to work on his game. I just explained that it looked in to me and he was facing the sun. I was just asking if he was sure. He got aggravated and said that he wouldn't call it out if it was even close, that's how he plays. Well, the week before we had played two high school kids that beat us badly and he called at least one obviously good serve as out and just winked at me. I brought up that fact and he got really aggravated and asked why i qas bringing up stuff from the past. As we played a few more games he refused to call any shots out, said he was going to leave it up to me. I just explained to him that according to the code I have the right to question an out call and then he has the right to confirm or change the call. He kept saying how we're just out here working on our games and that I was basically questioning his honesty.

My friend was getting increasingly upset as I just tried to explain that even if it's a recreational game I like to play by the rules and know if my shots are really in or out. This argument followed us all the way to the parking lot until he was very angrily telling me to get out of my car and call him a liar to his face (this is a 50 year old man; I'm 29).

So... Was I so wrong to question an out call in a "friendly" match? What say ye?

Were you wrong? Technically, no - second bolded part is absolutely correct; you have the right to question the call.

But would I question a regular playing partner in this situation? No - because you have nothing to gain and lots to lose. First bolded part - looked in to you and he was facing the sun... so what can you possibly expect him to say after you asked him if he's sure?

Either he's going to say "yes I'm sure" (whether he is or not), and then have bad feelings towards you for questioning him, or else he's going to admit that he's not sure, give you the point, and have bad feelings towards you for making him look bad.

If it's a match that counts, I would question the call just to set the tone for the rest of the match and let my opponent know that if he is going to hook, I'm going to call him on it. But in a friendly, there's really nothing to be gained. If you get to the point where you're frustrated that he's potentially hooking you, just don't play him again. Otherwise, calling him on it is just going to spoil the relationship.

 

[gmatheis]

I don't question calls at the opponents baseline because it's pretty hard to see just based on the physics or whatever ... lines going out across your field of vision are just too hard to judge from any didstnace.

Now if I'm looking right down a line, say like I serve down the T and can clearly see my serve on the line i may say something ... But I also call my own serves out that missed by like a half inch out when i see the reciever trying to decide if it was in or not.

All that said ... since you are talking about the opponents baseline and you cant really be sure if it was in or out I think where you made your mistake was how you responded when he got a little upset. Your only response should have been "It looked good to me but you were much closer and therefore probably saw it better than I did". Bringing up the incident last week was even worse

If you like playing with the guy just apologise and say something like "hey man I was thinking about that call I questioned and I realize your perspective was much better to see it so I probably just saw it wrong ... sorry for being stupid about it."

problem solved.

 

[Mike Hodge]

Background: So there's a guy that I previously worked with, have hit with, played league tennis with, etc. We get together and hit and play recreational singles matches every once in a while.

Situation: a couple weeks ago we got together to play some singles. My opponent had done an intense workout that morning so he told me he was not feeling real spry. He usually beats me so i always challenge myself to beat him.

So we start playing and we play a competitive first set but he wins 6-4. As we start the second set, it's obvious that he's getting fatigued and isn't really putting forth much of an effort. I Get up 4-0 or so. During a rally I hit a deep forehand that looked in to me but he called it out. I asked him if he was sure it was out. He said yes and I said okay. At the next changeover he asked me why I was getting on his case and questioning an out call. He said he's just out here to work on his game. I just explained that it looked in to me and he was facing the sun. I was just asking if he was sure. He got aggravated and said that he wouldn't call it out if it was even close, that's how he plays. Well, the week before we had played two high school kids that beat us badly and he called at least one obviously good serve as out and just winked at me. I brought up that fact and he got really aggravated and asked why i qas bringing up stuff from the past. As we played a few more games he refused to call any shots out, said he was going to leave it up to me. I just explained to him that according to the code I have the right to question an out call and then he has the right to confirm or change the call. He kept saying how we're just out here working on our games and that I was basically questioning his honesty.

My friend was getting increasingly upset as I just tried to explain that even if it's a recreational game I like to play by the rules and know if my shots are really in or out. This argument followed us all the way to the parking lot until he was very angrily telling me to get out of my car and call him a liar to his face (this is a 50 year old man; I'm 29).

So... Was I so wrong to question an out call in a "friendly" match? What say ye?

Yes, you have the right to ask about a call. Just a hunch, but bringing up the bad call against the high schoolers escalated the situation, a situation you probably should have simply tried to defuse at that point, if not earlier. Easier said than done, though.

 

[rufus_smith]

So... Was I so wrong to question an out call in a "friendly" match? What say ye?

If he had a much closer view of the ball landing than you as was likely the case here, then yes, imho. Your not playing for a living. Ease up. Friendship and goodwill are much more important.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I'm sorry, but I think it is poor form to question calls in social or practice matches between friends or teammates. I think it is best to just assume your friend is doing her best on line calls, net touches, forgotten scores -- all of it.

 

[tennis tom]

I don't think this is a person you want to be friends with nor have any business dealings with.

 

[dcdoorknob]

I agree that questioning the call at all is unlikely to accomplish much, especially in a social situation. Even if you do (which isn't awful in itself), you've really got to diffuse the situation much better than you did once it was on the changeover. Just a simple "it really wasn't my intent to question your integrity." and then drop it.

Definitely no need to bring up the prior situations. At that point, you basically are blatantly questioning his integrity, whether it deserves to be questioned or not. You need to ask yourself if you really want to go there before you take that step (of bringing up the previous situation), but once you did that you shouldn't have been surprised at how it started to get out of hand.

 

[beernutz]

Background: So there's a guy that I previously worked with, have hit with, played league tennis with, etc. We get together and hit and play recreational singles matches every once in a while.

Situation: a couple weeks ago we got together to play some singles. My opponent had done an intense workout that morning so he told me he was not feeling real spry. He usually beats me so i always challenge myself to beat him.

So we start playing and we play a competitive first set but he wins 6-4. As we start the second set, it's obvious that he's getting fatigued and isn't really putting forth much of an effort. I Get up 4-0 or so. During a rally I hit a deep forehand that looked in to me but he called it out. I asked him if he was sure it was out. He said yes and I said okay. At the next changeover he asked me why I was getting on his case and questioning an out call. He said he's just out here to work on his game. I just explained that it looked in to me and he was facing the sun. I was just asking if he was sure. He got aggravated and said that he wouldn't call it out if it was even close, that's how he plays. Well, the week before we had played two high school kids that beat us badly and he called at least one obviously good serve as out and just winked at me. I brought up that fact and he got really aggravated and asked why i qas bringing up stuff from the past. As we played a few more games he refused to call any shots out, said he was going to leave it up to me. I just explained to him that according to the code I have the right to question an out call and then he has the right to confirm or change the call. He kept saying how we're just out here working on our games and that I was basically questioning his honesty.

My friend was getting increasingly upset as I just tried to explain that even if it's a recreational game I like to play by the rules and know if my shots are really in or out. This argument followed us all the way to the parking lot until he was very angrily telling me to get out of my car and call him a liar to his face (this is a 50 year old man; I'm 29).

So... Was I so wrong to question an out call in a "friendly" match? What say ye?

What honesty?

 

[timmeh]

Yes you are in the wrong in my opinion. It is rude to question any call, even if it is clear to you.

I always take my opponents calls, good or bad, and accept they are calling it as they see it. To question a call is to question their integrity as others have said.

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

OP questioned the call according to the rules (The Code is for social tennis, remember, not just "serious" events) and, by his account, politely – not disputing, just questioning. He accepted the guy's claim of certainty that it was out and said okay. There was no violation of the rules of courtesy there, and the matter was finished.

Until the opponent brought it up again – and that's where the courtesy one expects between friends in a purely social situation went off the rails. Being "just out here to work on my game" has nothing to do with making good line calls (if anything, it is a reason for him to play the out balls), and it doesn't raise anyone's calls above being questioned – especially someone who deliberately made a bad call a week ago and winked about it. ("Bringing up stuff from the past"? C'mon, really?)

And think about it: if you weren't feeling the sting of getting caught being a little naughty, in an informal "just working on my game" situation, you wouldn't get defensive over an innocuous question. You'd just say, "Yeah, it just missed. Close, but clear," and go back to "working on your game." That ain't what happened here.

I only know one side of it, of course, and have no idea if the OP was as non-confrontational as the post suggests. (I wouldn't even trust my own memory of this kind of emotion-laden interaction; the human ego is a tricky thing.) But as written, this seems a clear case of seeing someone's true colors and realizing you're better off without him as a practice partner.

 

[Clive Walker]

In a social game, it's a bit OTT to question a call, I will often make a comment on the lines of "Oh I see, we're going with Match calls today are we?" but purely in jest (it maybe doesn't come over that way in type, but I've never had a bad reaction from it.) It depends whether or not you are good friends with someone and can get away with a bit of general banter I suppose. Definitely not worth falling out over though esp ina social game

 

[bc-05]

hmm tough to say really.. technically ur not wrong.. but im one of those person who in a real social match never really question any call even if it was 6 metres in.. thats because i know my limitation i know when its out or not and to fight over a point over my mate its just not worth it to me..

but that is just me though.. but i never let one bad call gets to me thats probably the reason why i never really cared if they called out when its in.. at the end of it 1 point doesn't matter does it? i guess it does but in this situation (with your friend) what does 1 point really mean? yes u may be eager to win against him.. then again u can always explain to him.. why you question his call? you can say "i'm desperate and always feel challenged to beat you coz i've never beaten you, so if you can tell me the truth that the ball was in or out, i would never challenge your call" and he may even give the point to you.. but to bring past experiences? dayummm that would hurt him more than anything.. that's my opinion anyway

because in the past, i've always tried to be honest with all of my calls.. and when people accuse me of cheating.. i always get offended (not so much in an aggresive way).. but in a way i always get pissed at the situation.. because i tell my self that i always be honest to myself but why do these people question me? especially when its my mate

 

[Maui19]

OP's actions seem reasonable to me. Personally, I wouldn't have gotten into him with it at the changeover.

 

[tennis_ocd]

imo, social match; no need to question a call. You might get by with a "how close am I?" type response if you really feel the need but I'd let it go. Also think you should call and apologize for coming across the way you did.

I do grit my teeth with one otherwise wonderful weekly opponent who has the habit of calling "OUT... I THINK, I THINK" 2x a set on close shots that he just misses getting to and are clearly in. Many times he'll immediately state his desire to replay the point which I refuse.

We all have quirks; he takes great pride in his quickness and it is simply a wish/hope that involuntarily expresses itself this way.

 

[813wilson]

I think it is a bit tacky to come right out and question a call in a social/friendly setting.

THe OP was up 4-love in the set - no need.

The only way I question a call in a friendly is to ask(insert high pitched, questioning voice tone, sound of surprise pitch here): "Oh, really? How much did I miss by?" Or, "was it out by much?"

That way the opponent might look again. But the tone of the question is the most important thing to keep it "friendly".

And I'm lucky, almost every match I play is on the dirt.....

 

[tennis tom]

OP questioned the call according to the rules (The Code is for social tennis, remember, not just "serious" events) and, by his account, politely – not disputing, just questioning. He accepted the guy's claim of certainty that it was out and said okay. There was no violation of the rules of courtesy there, and the matter was finished.

Until the opponent brought it up again – and that's where the courtesy one expects between friends in a purely social situation went off the rails. Being "just out here to work on my game" has nothing to do with making good line calls (if anything, it is a reason for him to play the out balls), and it doesn't raise anyone's calls above being questioned – especially someone who deliberately made a bad call a week ago and winked about it. ("Bringing up stuff from the past"? C'mon, really?)

And think about it: if you weren't feeling the sting of getting caught being a little naughty, in an informal "just working on my game" situation, you wouldn't get defensive over an innocuous question. You'd just say, "Yeah, it just missed. Close, but clear," and go back to "working on your game." That ain't what happened here.

I only know one side of it, of course, and have no idea if the OP was as non-confrontational as the post suggests. (I wouldn't even trust my own memory of this kind of emotion-laden interaction; the human ego is a tricky thing.) But as written, this seems a clear case of seeing someone's true colors and realizing you're better off without him as a practice partner.

Hear, hear! Well said and I'm in total agreement. It takes some courage to stand up to a cheater. I doubt the OP would bring his case here for review if he weren't an upfront player of good character. He is getting beat up here for his courage to confront a cheater instead of being lauded for it. The cheater's integrity should be questioned because he has NONE! Sports don't create character--they reveal it. The OP is the messenger here not the perpetrator, that's being confused here. There are sociopaths and psychopaths on the courts and on the planet and if more people had the courage to stand-up to them tennis and the planet would be better for it. The majority of people are law abiding but it's the psychos who are calling the shots these days.

I've called cheaters on it and I've also let it go when they are so hapless that I don't want to bother with correcting them. Those are in rec play where I don't give a hoot about the outcome (but they do) and I don't call them on their habitual f-f,ing and a slew of other bad habits they are not conscious of but cheating none the less. In those cases it would prevent me from what I'm trying to accomplish, hitting as many practice balls as possible. I'm cheating them by not giving them my best game because I'm working on grip changes, spins, drop-shots, lobs, etc. So to the OP, lose this creep, you will feel better about your game and life by hitting against a good honest wall or hitting a basket of serves.

 

[tennis_ocd]

Hear, hear! Well said and I'm in total agreement. It takes some courage to stand up to a cheater.

It's _one_ baseline call, social setting, over 2 sets disagreed by a guy 80 feet away.

 

[tennis tom]

It's _one_ baseline call, social setting, over 2 sets disagreed by a guy 80 feet away.

Exactly, so why did the CHEATER get mad and turn it confrontational? You are confused as to WHO is making the big deal out of this. From the OP his opponent hates losing so badly he openly cheats when he's down in the score. He screwed a couple of kids previously, fine example he is.

Maybe you should reread the OP and give it some more thought than your one line dismissive answer. Oh, why bother, it's only a message board and what difference will it make in the grand scheme of things.

 

[jackcrawford]

OP questioned the call according to the rules (The Code is for social tennis, remember, not just "serious" events) and, by his account, politely – not disputing, just questioning. He accepted the guy's claim of certainty that it was out and said okay. There was no violation of the rules of courtesy there, and the matter was finished.

Until the opponent brought it up again – and that's where the courtesy one expects between friends in a purely social situation went off the rails. Being "just out here to work on my game" has nothing to do with making good line calls (if anything, it is a reason for him to play the out balls), and it doesn't raise anyone's calls above being questioned – especially someone who deliberately made a bad call a week ago and winked about it. ("Bringing up stuff from the past"? C'mon, really?)

And think about it: if you weren't feeling the sting of getting caught being a little naughty, in an informal "just working on my game" situation, you wouldn't get defensive over an innocuous question. You'd just say, "Yeah, it just missed. Close, but clear," and go back to "working on your game." That ain't what happened here.

I only know one side of it, of course, and have no idea if the OP was as non-confrontational as the post suggests. (I wouldn't even trust my own memory of this kind of emotion-laden interaction; the human ego is a tricky thing.) But as written, this seems a clear case of seeing someone's true colors and realizing you're better off without him as a practice partner.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[FriarTuck]

Thanks for the replies. The thing that got me was that my questioning of the call was really as quick as I wrote in the original post and was more of immediate reaction than anything. I've had other close friends do the same thing in other situations and I just confirm the call and don't think anything of it. After he confirmed the call I didn't think about again until he brought it up at the changeover.

I agree that I shouldn't have brought up the bad the calls from the week before. The only reason I did was because my opponent was basically claiming that he never makes a bad call. This guy is also one who rarely calls the score before serving because "we know what the score is after 2 points" (even though we lose track of the score multiple times) and doesn't call balls out sometimes, I have to ask if they were out.

I have continued to play with him because I have always liked him as a person and he's always willing to play. You guys know how valuable willing and available playing partners are, I'm sure.

I really want to reconcile but the violent anger I experienced from this guy as we were leaving really bothers me. Seems really out of place for a 50 year old to be that confrontational when I was keeping cool about and just trying to reason with him.

 

[FriarTuck]

And if something like this ever happens again, I've learned to just try to diffuse the situation ASAP.

 

[VaththalKuzhambu]

Don't ever do this again in a social situation.

...... I just explained to him that according to the code I have the right to ......

 

[tennis tom]

Seems really out of place for a 50 year old to be that confrontational when I was keeping cool about and just trying to reason with him.

Not so here in kali where it's against the law to grow-up.

 

[dcdoorknob]

From the description, it does sound like this guy was already somewhat tired before you played, and then you played at least the better part of 2 sets, so he continued to get even more tired. Plus he was losing badly in that 2nd set to a guy he normally beats. The conditions sound like they where ripe for a bit of an outurst of frustration, which is what happened. That's not to say that he was justified in his outburst (he wasn't imo), but if its really out of character for him and not a regular thing then I'd certainly be willing to chalk it up to a one time thing that was likely heavily induced by fatigue.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OP questioned the call according to the rules (The Code is for social tennis, remember, not just "serious" events)

This is correct. It is also not the whole story.

There are lots of social situations where friendliness/courtesy/informality is warranted. Examples where it would be rude to enforce The Code:

Your practice partner is tired or hobbled or overheated and is not playing to your reasonable pace as server.

Your practice partner sits down on a changeover and drinks water when this is not permitted.

Your practice partner shouts out in frustration when the ball is traveling toward you.

Your practice partner footfaults.

IMHO, chiding, scolding or attempting to claim the point (or fault if FF) in any of these situations in a social or practice match would be inappropriate -- even though the Code allows it.

 

[user92626]

Strange reasoning, Cindy

Because the first guy already has a host of issues (whose responsibility is that?), it's not OK for the second guy to exercise something well within the book?

 

[volleygirl]

Yes you are in the wrong in my opinion. It is rude to question any call, even if it is clear to you.

I always take my opponents calls, good or bad, and accept they are calling it as they see it. To question a call is to question their integrity as others have said.

Hes not in the wrong. Questioning the other guys integrity? He already knows the guys integrity is in question by what he did while playing the highschoolers so its not like hes questioning the pope. If someones feelings are this fragile, they probably shouldnt be playing a sport at all.

 

[volleygirl]

From the description, it does sound like this guy was already somewhat tired before you played, and then you played at least the better part of 2 sets, so he continued to get even more tired. Plus he was losing badly in that 2nd set to a guy he normally beats. The conditions sound like they where ripe for a bit of an outurst of frustration, which is what happened. That's not to say that he was justified in his outburst (he wasn't imo), but if its really out of character for him and not a regular thing then I'd certainly be willing to chalk it up to a one time thing that was likely heavily induced by fatigue.

If the 50 yr old is always winning their matches, how is the 29 yr old to know if this is "out of character?" The 29 yr old has handled losing time and time again like an adult but the one time hes spanking the old man, hes supposed to look the other way when he wants to act like a child? Fatigue isnt what caused the outburst, being questioned on a call and then reminded that its not beyond him to do it is what did it.

 

[OrangePower]

Strange reasoning, Cindy

Because the first guy already has a host of issues (whose responsibility is that?), it's not OK for the second guy to exercise something well within the book?

Hes not in the wrong. Questioning the other guys integrity? He already knows the guys integrity is in question by what he did while playing the highschoolers so its not like hes questioning the pope. If someones feelings are this fragile, they probably shouldnt be playing a sport at all.

Depends what you mean by "wrong".

Technically, OP is not in the wrong since what he did is by the book.

However, what he did is not in his own best interest. He had nothing to gain really by questioning the call, and as a result he has now likely lost a regular playing partner. So in this sense, he did the wrong thing.

Common sense - remarkably uncommon.

 

[rufus_smith]

In the immortal words of NBA pro Allen Iverson: ".... I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game last it's my last but we're talking about practice man. How silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about practice. We're talking about practice man. (laughter from the media crowd) We're talking about practice. We're talking about practice. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about practice. When you come to the arena, and you see me play, you've seen me play right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about practice right now. (more laughter)"

 

[tennis_ocd]

Exactly, so why did the CHEATER get mad and turn it confrontational? You are confused as to WHO is making the big deal out of this. From the OP his opponent hates losing so badly he openly cheats when he's down in the score. He screwed a couple of kids previously, fine example he is.

sigh. That's why. One question on a baseline ball from a guy 80 feet away over two sets of otherwise fun, social tennis and he's being labeled a cheater.

And as far as an one out serve call with wink, who knows. Perhaps clearing dust in eye. Perhaps the OP looked good in shorts. Ironically, if the OP knew that the serve was in and took the call, there is one inescapable "cheating" situation here ;-)

I'd be pretty annoyed over being questioned on one baseline call over two sets of social tennis; fuming if some call from weeks earlier was thrown in to support the question. The OP was wrong and you're clearly out-of-bounds by labeling some guy a "cheater" over this.

 

[tennis tom]

In the immortal words of NBA pro Allen Iverson: "

Are you sure you want to use AI as an example of good sportsmanship?

 

[tennis tom]

sigh.

What ever. With your creative writing skills and abilities for argumentation, you'd make a good reporter for the National Enquirer or a defense attorney.

 

[ATP100]

Easy Answer: Yes, you were wrong in this situation.

 

[jht32]

Sometimes it's better to be happy than to be right.

I wouldn't question a regular partner in a friendly match if I wanted to keep him as a regular partner. This is considering that the bad call occurs very infrequently. Nobody's perfect.

 

[user92626]

Depends what you mean by "wrong".

Technically, OP is not in the wrong since what he did is by the book.

However, what he did is not in his own best interest. He had nothing to gain really by questioning the call, and as a result he has now likely lost a regular playing partner. So in this sense, he did the wrong thing.

Common sense - remarkably uncommon.

You assume you know what the OP feels, and you could be well out of place.

I don't know how the OP feels, but for me not speaking up what I feel right can be detrimental. It's hard to quantify "gain" in this kind of situation.

 

[bc-05]

oh boy sounds just like my girlfriend.. the only way she would beat me is by cheating.. calling out every 2 balls because "she's tired and i hit too hard, therefore it is out!"

and if i say she's cheating.. she would get angry.. but what do i learn from it? NEVER ARGUE, coz theyre always right :'(

Thanks for the replies. The thing that got me was that my questioning of the call was really as quick as I wrote in the original post and was more of immediate reaction than anything. I've had other close friends do the same thing in other situations and I just confirm the call and don't think anything of it. After he confirmed the call I didn't think about again until he brought it up at the changeover.

I agree that I shouldn't have brought up the bad the calls from the week before. The only reason I did was because my opponent was basically claiming that he never makes a bad call. This guy is also one who rarely calls the score before serving because "we know what the score is after 2 points" (even though we lose track of the score multiple times) and doesn't call balls out sometimes, I have to ask if they were out.

I have continued to play with him because I have always liked him as a person and he's always willing to play. You guys know how valuable willing and available playing partners are, I'm sure.

I really want to reconcile but the violent anger I experienced from this guy as we were leaving really bothers me. Seems really out of place for a 50 year old to be that confrontational when I was keeping cool about and just trying to reason with him.

 

[sureshs]

Remember one thing - once a thread is cut, you can tie a knot but can never bring it back to its original state again.

Once a barrier of distrust has come up between two people, it is very difficult to mend it.

But it can still be done. Time is the great leveler.

 

[NJ1]

Since there's no line judges there's nothing wrong with politely double-checking someone's out call to ask if they're sure, especially if you don't make a habit of it. The 50-year-old owes you an apology for his over-sensitivity and subsequent aggression.

As for the comments of "it's only a social match"... unless you're a professional or seriously aiming to become one (ie. <1% of you), tennis is all social matches, as hard as that may be for some of you to admit.

 

[user92626]

+1 for NJ

Methinks that it's hard to find decent and willing players or to lose friends, but some people deserve to be dropped. If this guy is 50, much older than the OP, and can't see his attitude like the OP describes, he deserves to be dropped.

 

[sureshs]

I am with Cindy on this one

 

[tennis_ocd]

One argued baseline call over two sets of otherwise fun tennis? Then rehashing a questionable line call from weeks earlier in an attempt to prove a pattern?!

The 50 yo needs to drop the OP imo. It's absurd.

 

[user92626]

One argued baseline call over two sets of otherwise fun tennis? Then rehashing a questionable line call from weeks earlier in an attempt to prove a pattern?!

The 50 yo needs to drop the OP imo. It's absurd.

You would think a 50 years old would know better than a 29 years old, no? What's life experience for?

And as someone who has always managed to beat, school a young guy, wouldn't he know you can't lose a match from 1 point? So why got all worked up?

Seems to me all signs point to the 50 yro as the loser.

 

[user92626]

I really want to reconcile but the violent anger I experienced from this guy as we were leaving really bothers me. Seems really out of place for a 50 year old to be that confrontational when I was keeping cool about and just trying to reason with him.

Hey Friar,

Contrary to conventional wisdom, age is not really relavant to maturity and civility. Experience is.

I play at several city courts and have seen many 50s, 60s and older folks who behave worse than younger guys you come to expect. I know this overweight 60s guy who plays crappy tennis but loves trash talking and taunting others. Initially I thought it was just a tongue in cheek kinda joking and I bantered along, but over time I realized that's what he really enjoyed. One time he even asked me to compare his hitting to a much younger, more competent guy, "who hits harder?" A couple times I asked him to play with me, he always refused, but delegated to his partners and told them that they could play me because "he doesn't hit hard at all" Now I just ignore the guy when I come out and he gets it. LOL.

I play with another late 70s or even over 80 man. He plays OK, volleys well. With a decent partner he could win games against random, non serious youngsters. Probably because he could win depending on partners, he got into the habit of picking/assigning teams and consequentially makes critical judgements about other people's skills (seems like one of the worst things you could do at city courts). When it gets competitive, he makes shady calls just like everybody else but probably worse since he also has sight problem. It's always funny to play with him.

But things have a way to work out in the end. Good players know that he's a weak link so they don't take competition seriously. All the ruckus is really nonconsequential.

 

[Cruzer]

I am well past the point of questioning calls in a purely casual/social match. A social or casual match presumes it is primarily for however if you think the other player is prone to making bad calls either purposely or erroneously and it bothers you then don't play games/sets with him or just don't play with him period.
Among the group I play with there are a couple of guys that regularly make bad calls (I think one guy simply has bad eyesight) and a couple of guys that like to question/argue line calls. Since these matches we play are purely for fun I have the attitude of "I don't care about this to the point I want to argue about it". If one of the arguers wants to question my call I will tell him "Take the point if it is that important to you". I have seen and been involved in enough line call disputes to know that arguing about line calls doesn't do anything to help me play better.

 

[sureshs]

You would think a 50 years old would know better than a 29 years old, no? What's life experience for?

To be fair, nobody asks to become older. So it is unfair to expect that older people will know better.

 

[kylebarendrick]

I don't see anything wrong with an occasional (and polite) "are you sure?" regardless of the setting. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when someone asks. We ALL make mistakes and we all blow line calls. Period. When people ask if you are sure it doesn't mean they've questioned your integrity, honesty or manhood. They are just asking if you are sure. Either give a simple "yes" or give them the point. No need for any drama beyond that.

 

[blakesq]

YOu were technically right. But remember your opponent had already worked out earlier in the day, and was tired when playing you, so he was probably in a crappy mood already. One thing I say in a situation like you describe is: "Look, reasonable people can disagree on the same line call", so hopefully he will understand you aren't challenging his integrity.

Oh, for those who say you shouldn't challenge a call in a social match, they are wrong. You either play tennis according to the rules (e.g. keeping score, calling balls in or out, losing a point when you double fault), or you aren't keeping score, and you are just slapping the ball around. The latter is NOT tennis.

Good luck!

 

[Cindysphinx]

I don't see anything wrong with an occasional (and polite) "are you sure?" regardless of the setting. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when someone asks. We ALL make mistakes and we all blow line calls. Period. When people ask if you are sure it doesn't mean they've questioned your integrity, honesty or manhood. They are just asking if you are sure. Either give a simple "yes" or give them the point. No need for any drama beyond that.

If I called it out, I am sure. If I were unsure, I would not call it out or I would reverse myself regardless of anything my opponent says or does.

There is no need to ask me unless you think I am blind or cheating or both.

In competitive matches, my opponents do not know me. For all they know, I might be hooking them. Also, in dubs asking "Are you sure?" allows the partner some time to overrule.

In a singles practice match between friends, you shouldn't be asking. And if you do ask and someone gets offended, don't be surprised if they stop taking your calls.