Outstreched arm for spacing - Commentary.

[Deleted member 775108]

Hi All.

This may be useful to people who are slightly too close to the ball but unable to understand why.

There has been this instruction on the Youtubes and elsewhere where they teach the player to catch the ball with outstretched left arm - then drop and hit - basically teach that the left arm is used for spacing. But to me it would seem that this wouldn't work very well since the player would be 8"-10" or so too close to the ball UNLESS they are hitting a VERY LOW or VERY HIGH ball (due to the hitting arc since the shoulder is the fulcrum) - Yes I know the shoulder will also get closer to the ball during impact but I still think the player should focus on keep the ball outside to well (6-8-10") outside of the outstretched hand to make clean, consistent, low error, hitch free contact. Someone with shorter arms or a heavily bend forearm (due to lets say a western grip) wouldnt be as effected by this. But a normal or longer arm and an eastern to SW grip without much arm bending would be more effected.

Here is screenshot of @Tan Tennis 's clean forehand - showing the ball further than the outstretched arm - there is also a small clip below.

✂️ Tan Tennis Forehand Spacing

10 seconds · Clipped by Myyt1234 · Original video "Artengo TR960 Control Tour Review. The best bang for the buck." by Tan Tennis

youtube.com

 

[HFK]

I once hit the ball with my off arm... fail?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I once hit the ball with my off arm... fail?

Sure.

Obviously, the off arm doesn't stay in the extended position. Roger retracts the arm by the time he starts his forward swing here:

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Hi All.

This may be useful to people who are slightly too close to the ball but unable to understand why.

There has been this instruction on the Youtubes and elsewhere where they teach the player to catch the ball with outstretched left arm - then drop and hit - basically teach that the left arm is used for spacing. But to me it would seem that this wouldn't work very well since the player would be 8"-10" or so too close to the ball UNLESS they are hitting a VERY LOW or VERY HIGH ball (due to the hitting arc since the shoulder is the fulcrum) - Yes I know the shoulder will also get closer to the ball during impact but I still think the player should focus on keep the ball outside to well (6-8-10") outside of the outstretched hand to make clean, consistent, low error, hitch free contact. Someone with shorter arms or a heavily bend forearm (due to lets say a western grip) wouldnt be as effected by this. But a normal or longer arm and an eastern to SW grip without much arm bending would be more effected.

Here is screenshot of @Tan Tennis 's clean forehand - showing the ball further than the outstretched arm - there is also a small clip below.

✂️ Tan Tennis Forehand Spacing

10 seconds · Clipped by Myyt1234 · Original video "Artengo TR960 Control Tour Review. The best bang for the buck." by Tan Tennis

youtube.com

Wrong take. The spacing cue should be an approximation, not an absolute measurement. Still useful, nonetheless in a wide variety of situations. The exact spacing will depend on a number of factors -- stance, contact height, dbl-bend vs straight-arm, etc.

The spacing suggestion is most useful for players who often tend to be too close (getting jammed). If the incoming ball appears to be coming toward the elbow, the player needs to adjust to create more space.

BTW, your screenshot might be a little bit deceiving. It is not quite from the perspective of the guy hitting the ball. Also, in this image, the ball is not yet in in close proximity. It looks like it hass just crossed the net & has not yet bounced.

 

[Deleted member 775108]

Wrong take...

BTW, your screenshot might be a little bit deceiving.

To be fair I did say this first - This may be useful to people who are slightly too close to the ball but unable to understand why.

BTW, video link was also attached.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

To be fair I did say this first - This may be useful to people who are slightly too close to the ball but unable to understand why.

BTW, video link was also attached.

I saw the video. That's one, of a couple of reasons, I knew that the ball had not yet bounced in the screenshot.

I had started using that arm spacing cue in the early or mid 00s with my students. It has proven to be very effective for players who tend to get too close to the ball. Also, effective for players who stop much too far away for proper spacing. Many of these players tend to end with an extreme closed stance, far too often, as a last moment adjustment. If they make the adjustment sooner, using the arm spacing cue, they will hit more of their Fh shots with a neutral, open or semi-open stance

 

[HFK]

Sure.

Thanks

 

[Curious]

I also used to take it too literally like you did and concluded that outstretched left hand is much closer than actual contact point but then realised it’s an approximate guide as @SystemicAnomaly pointed out.

 

[Dragy]

Hi All.

This may be useful to people who are slightly too close to the ball but unable to understand why.

There has been this instruction on the Youtubes and elsewhere where they teach the player to catch the ball with outstretched left arm - then drop and hit - basically teach that the left arm is used for spacing. But to me it would seem that this wouldn't work very well since the player would be 8"-10" or so too close to the ball UNLESS they are hitting a VERY LOW or VERY HIGH ball (due to the hitting arc since the shoulder is the fulcrum) - Yes I know the shoulder will also get closer to the ball during impact but I still think the player should focus on keep the ball outside to well (6-8-10") outside of the outstretched hand to make clean, consistent, low error, hitch free contact. Someone with shorter arms or a heavily bend forearm (due to lets say a western grip) wouldnt be as effected by this. But a normal or longer arm and an eastern to SW grip without much arm bending would be more effected.

Here is screenshot of @Tan Tennis 's clean forehand - showing the ball further than the outstretched arm - there is also a small clip below.

✂️ Tan Tennis Forehand Spacing

10 seconds · Clipped by Myyt1234 · Original video "Artengo TR960 Control Tour Review. The best bang for the buck." by Tan Tennis

youtube.com

That’s correct take in terms that it’s not a uniform spot for the ball to go through. Actually, depending on what kind of ball you receive, how you approach it and what kind of shot you are going to execute, you might be moving towards the ball when swinging or shifting away.

What the “catch with off-hand” drill definitely provides is getting more precise with gauging spacing. Instead of “general proximity” with couple of ft of margin you learn to have the ball within 4-5 inch of space. Once your brain learns to do it, shifting it wider is easy.

What you don’t want is the ball coming under/over the forearm of outstretched off-arm, which is too close. So doing catching drill you might focus on reaching to catch it. The thing is, with just the hand and no racquet you must gauge it rather precisely.

 

[ballmachineguy]

If you need to try this to space yourself correctly, you need to play another sport. Ridiculous. Balls also come at different angles across your body from one direction and into your body from another will have different perspective with re to spacing. No one has time to break out a protractor during a point.
Also, putting the nondom arm across is something you usually see on high level forehands. If you are at that point you probably already have spacing down pat. If you are a newb struggling with spacing, putting your arm across your body will probably make tennis harder. Not all forehands need the same amount of coil, so that will limit where the hand can go. Again ridiculous.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

If you need to try this to space yourself correctly, you need to play another sport. Ridiculous. Balls also come at different angles across your body from one direction and into your body from another will have different perspective with re to spacing. No one has time to break out a protractor during a point.
Also, putting the nondom arm across is something you usually see on high level forehands. If you are at that point you probably already have spacing down pat. If you are a newb struggling with spacing, putting your arm across your body will probably make tennis harder. Not all forehands need the same amount of coil, so that will limit where the hand can go. Again ridiculous.

Strongly disagree. Not at all ridiculous. I've found the extended non-dom arm, as a spatial reference, to be effective for many intermediate players, especially low intermediates. I've even introduced this concept to advanced novice players with decent results in many cases.

 

[ppma]

Strongly disagree. Not at all ridiculous. I've found the extended non-dom arm, as a visual reference, to be effective for many intermediate players, especially low intermediates. I've even introduced this concept to advanced novice players with decent results in many cases.

I would not say it is ridiculous, but certainly that left arm does "nothing" really useful. One could convince me that by doing that on can have a reference or be more focused on timing and positioning... I'd buy that, but the arm is not the main actor there.
Also, bringing the left arm towards the body during the swing help stabilizing rotation, so, extending it before impact the way OP suggests is not a bad idea overall.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I would not say it is ridiculous, but certainly that left arm does "nothing" really useful. .

I disagree with this as well. The non-dominant arm appears to provide several functions in the modern forehand. Its use has evolved considerably since the 1960s & '70s. It appeared to be used quite a bit less back then. Often, the off arm pointed forward (toward the net) rather than across the body. I started noticing greater use of the left arm in the 80s and 90s with Agassi, Sampras, Hewitt & others. Even Lendl was using it a bit more than players had before. Noticed it even more with Roger, Rafa & players that came after them.

The non-dom hand stays on the racket longer to assist with the unit turn. This helps to offload the racket weight so that the dominant arm can stay relaxed longer. It also help to feel / establish the racket face orientation.

The off arm then extends across the body toward the side (fence). Both of these actions provide a bit fuller shoulder turn (upper torso coil) than setting up with the off arm pointing forward (toward the net). The back of the front shoulder is more toward the net with the arm extending across the body.

This all helps to get a bit more separation between the hips and the upper torso. This will temporarily store a bit more energy in the core.

As mentioned before, the extended arm can significantly assist with spacing & footwork for many players.

Also, by extending the arm in that fashion, after the unit turn prep, the rational inertia (MOI) of the body is increased. The off arm subsequently moved (swept forward) and then retracted somewhat to assist with uncoiling of the torso and acceleration of the torso, arm & racket.

 

[ppma]

Also, by extending the arm in that fashion, after the unit turn prep, the rational inertia (MOI) of the body is increased. The off arm subsequently moved (swept forward) and then retracted somewhat to assist with uncoiling of the torso and acceleration of the torso, arm & racket.

Yes, that is what I meant when I said that bringing the left arm towards the body during the swing help stabilizing rotation. I could not state to what extent it is relevant, though. What I meant is that using the left arm or not as a visual reference to measure the distance of the ball (imo) is something purely psychological than truly operational.

The funny thing is, I extend the arm and then retract it during the swing, but in a subconscious level; I do not use it to measure the distance to the ball.

I think we mostly agree

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yes, that is what I meant when I said that bringing the left arm towards the body during the swing help stabilizing rotation. I could not state to what extent it is relevant, though. What I meant is that using the left arm or not as a visual reference to measure the distance of the ball (imo) is something purely psychological than truly operational.

The funny thing is, I extend the arm and then retract it during the swing, but in a subconscious level; I do not use it to measure the distance to the ball.

I think we mostly agree

Some players consciously use the extended for measurement (for spacing / footwork). Some do so on a subconscious level. Others might not use it for spacing at all but still use it for other reasons (whether they know why or not).

 

[user92626]

BTW, your screenshot might be a little bit deceiving. It is not quite from the perspective of the guy hitting the ball. Also, in this image, the ball is not yet in in close proximity. It looks like it hass just crossed the net & has not yet bounced.

I think it's still very useful as an image for conceptual learning if not literal.

The ball should be on the side, outside of your no-dom hand by two feet, at least for me.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

The ball should be on the side, outside of your no-dom hand by two feet, at least for me.

Really, 2 feet? Is that for a high bouncing ball and a straight-arm forehand? Fully open stance?

 

[user92626]

Really, 2 feet? Is that for a high bouncing ball and a straight-arm forehand? Fully open stance?

Yes. Let high bouncing ball falls into place.

2 feet away from the tip of your no-dom hand seems ideal. What's ideal for you?

 

[Tan Tennis]

Hey thanks for using my video as the reference in the OP. It’s an honor. I agree with most of the posts here about the use of the non-dominant arm. I don’t know much about the stroke mechanics, but I think extending the non-dominant arm really helps me with many things such as rotation, spacing, contact points, power. Although the real contact point might be further than the reach of the left hand if you want to hit with more extended FH, extending the left arm at least helps me hitting not too close to my body in pace.

 

[ballmachineguy]

Hey thanks for using my video as the reference in the OP. It’s an honor. I agree with most of the posts here about the use of the non-dominant arm. I don’t know much about the stroke mechanics, but I think extending the non-dominant arm really helps me with many things such as rotation, spacing, contact points, power. Although the real contact point might be further than the reach of the left hand if you want to hit with more extended FH, extending the left arm at least helps me hitting not too close to my body in pace.

What about the fact that the nondom arm doesn’t extend until after the unit turn. If you have spaced incorrectly and have unit turned, what is the fix to that? CHECKMATE!

 

[Tan Tennis]

What about the fact that the nondom arm doesn’t extend until after the unit turn. If you have spaced incorrectly and have unit turned, what is the fix to that? CHECKMATE!

Hmm. I imagine it probably feels weird because once you extend, the ball will go to your arm and you end up hitting too close to the body?

 

[user92626]

Really, 2 feet? Is that for a high bouncing ball and a straight-arm forehand? Fully open stance?

What do u think? First shot Fed moves away to create a space of 1ft+. On second ball he creates around 2 feet of distance from where his non-dom hand pointed miliseconds ago.

 

[socallefty]

I feel like the primary purpose for me to swing my nondominant arm parallel to the baseline is to help me coil my front shoulder early and also more. When I coil my front shoulder more, it keeps me in balance while I coil my rear hip and shoulder - this ends up with a bigger body coil and bigger separation angle between my hip and shoulder. If I don’t achieve this balance, my body coil is usually less which ends up costing me on generating easy power.

I can achieve good spacing even without the nondominant hand stretched out as I know where to stop and land my back foot to have enough space to generate a full swing with extended arms. So, the spacing aspect is only a secondary aspect for me and the main reason to do it is to get a bigger body coil while staying balanced.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

What do u think? First shot Fed moves away to create a space of 1ft+. On second ball he creates around 2 feet of distance from where his non-dom hand pointed miliseconds ago.

Very casual, non-competitive hitting. Falling back (to his left) while hitting. Not sure that we should draw too many conclusions about optimal spacing from this video

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

What about the fact that the nondom arm doesn’t extend until after the unit turn. If you have spaced incorrectly and have unit turned, what is the fix to that? CHECKMATE!

False checkmate. Simple quick adjustment steps are all that is needed. Can usually achieve this easily while staying balanced. Not rocket science.

 

[user92626]

Very casual, non-competitive hitting. Falling back (to his left) while hitting. Not sure that we should draw too many conclusions about optimal spacing from this video

Yep, very casual but it's just on the intensity. All other important elements are there, no? Slow and easy on the eyes and a change from the usual match play stroke.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yes. Let high bouncing ball falls into place.

2 feet away from the tip of your no-dom hand seems ideal. What's ideal for you?

With a high contact point & straight-arm Fh, it "feels" / seems like a foot, maybe a bit less (or more). In reality, it might actually be more (or less) spacing than that. But, from my own, 1st person, perspective, it seems like a lot less than 2 feet. But video might reveal otherwise.

 

[user92626]

With a high contact point & straight-arm Fh, it "feels" / seems like a foot, maybe a bit more. It might actually be more (or less) spacing than that. But, from my own, 1st person, perspective, it seems like a lot less than 2 feet. But video might reveal otherwise.

It should be more or less around 2 feet.
Look at Will's FH.

His hitting hand moves in and takes the spot of his non-dom hand.
From hand to contact point is around 24 inches, given racket is typically 27 inches.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Yep, very casual but it's just on the intensity. All other important elements are there, no? Slow and easy on the eyes and a change from the usual match play stroke.

The footwork is so casual, it looks sloppy & sub-optimal by his standards. Spacing here is serviceable but might be somewhat less-than-optimal in a competitive scenario. Difficult to say for certain

 

[Funbun]

It should be more or less around 2 feet.
Look at Will's FH.

His hitting hand moves in and takes the spot of his non-dom hand.
From hand to contact point is around 24 inches, given racket is typically 27 inches.

Alright man let us know how to stop time and get out a ruler to measure our distance to our contact point next time you go out on court and hit a shot.

What are you achieving by discussing this?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

It should be more or less around 2 feet.
Look at Will's FH.

His hitting hand moves in and takes the spot of his non-dom hand.
From hand to contact point is around 24 inches, given racket is typically 27 inches.

Important to realize that "feel" and "real" are often not the same thing. That is, a player's perception of speed, distance, etc might be significantly different from reality. Their own perception or estimation is more important than the actual measurement.

For you, a 2-foot spacing might seem correct. However, if you tell another player to use a 2-foot spacing, they might end up 3-4 feet away from the path of the incoming ball.

I have seen this often with students when serving. I'll sometimes ask them to estimate how high above their (vertically) extended tossing hand the ball toss is peaking. My observation is that the ball is rising about about 2 feet above that end. However, one student might estimate the ball toss is only 1 foot above the extended hand. Another student might say that the same toss (for their own serve) is 3 feet above the hand.

It's the player's perception is what is most important -- not the actual number. If the student learns to recognize the optimal toss height (range), by sight, this is much more important than if they assign the correct numerical value.

 

[user92626]

Alright man let us know how to stop time and get out a ruler to measure our distance to our contact point next time you go out on court and hit a shot.

What are you achieving by discussing this?

For you, a 2-foot spacing might seem correct. However, if you tell another player to use a 2-foot spacing, they might end up 3-4 feet away from the path of the incoming ball.

You guys are not familiar with estimates? And to have something a little concrete to start your estimates -- or convey to your students-- instead of complete blind or random?

SA, students get things wrong all the time, so because they get it wrong then you won't even bother to start with something?

Most learners suck at the serve, and will screw it up at the start, so you won't bother to try using, say, the clock face to convey swing paths?

Anyhoo, teach methods aside, my question to both of you is: is spacing 1-2 feet from the non-dom hand for our strike zone more or less correct?

 

[user92626]

Alright man let us know how to stop time and get out a ruler to measure our distance to our contact point next time you go out on court and hit a shot.

What are you achieving by discussing this?

man, on second thought, your time-stop proposition is weird, if not dumb.

How do you estimate to not have the ball 10 feet away from you or jamming 1 inch close to you? In other words how do you more or less get the ball within your hittable zone?

I'm just more specific than you when I offer a method of estimation. Before this thread I was having the problem of spacing (having nothing to base on) but now I have a better idea.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

You guys are not familiar with estimates? And to have something a little concrete to start your estimates -- or convey to your students-- instead of complete blind or random?

SA, students get things wrong all the time, so because they get it wrong then you won't even bother to start with something?

Most learners suck at the serve, and will screw it up at the start, so you won't bother to try using, say, the clock face to convey swing paths?

Anyhoo, teach methods aside, my question to both of you is: is spacing 1-2 feet from the non-dom hand for our strike zone more or less correct?

Still not getting what I'm trying to get a ross? Not blind. Not random. The actual numerical value is not that important. It's the learned visual perception (estimation) of the correct or optimal spacing that is important -- not numerical values.

1 to 2 feet is spacing might be a great cue for you. But not necessarily for me or others.

 

[ballmachineguy]

False checkmate. Simple quick adjustment steps are all that is needed.

Surely you jest! The arm goes out after the unit turn. You can hold the unit turn and move, but when the nondom hand comes off (the first opportunity to use it for “spacing”) it is because you are swinging and only reaching or T rexing the arm will fix spacing.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Surely you jest! The arm goes out after the unit turn. You can hold the unit turn and move, but when the nondom hand comes off (the first opportunity to use it for “spacing”) it is because you are swinging and only reaching or T rexing the arm will fix spacing.

No jest. The non-dom hand already has come off the racket well before forward swing has started. It is usually extended across the body while the racket is dropping, prior to the forward swing. The OP image and the Federer video show this.

 

[ballmachineguy]

No jest. The non-dom hand already has come off the racket well before forward swing has started. It is usually extended across the body while the racket is dropping, prior to the forward swing. The OP image and the Federer video show this.

Dropping the racquet is swinging. There is no slowing down from there unless you are Mr Curious. Fed should move faster, apparently the arm across didn’t help him and he had to T Rex it.

 

[Deleted member 775108]

My perspective (red spot is end of fully outstretched arm)

My perspective (yellow spot is sweetspot contact)

This for contact point halfway between waist and shoulders. Low or higher the ball gets the red spot and yellow spot get closer and closer.

@user92626 for me with my arm length, swing style, grip, slightly bent arm at contact it is between 7"-8" for center contact. Obvious the sweet spot in the racquet is big enough to allow a little more or less. Also modern racquets and spin game would mean the ideal for me should be 8"-9".

 

[Deleted member 775108]

It should be more or less around 2 feet.
Look at Will's FH.

His hitting hand moves in and takes the spot of his non-dom hand.
From hand to contact point is around 24 inches, given racket is typically 27 inches.

@user92626

It wont be 2 feet (or even almost 1 foot)due to many reason... Read below for some of them

1. Left hand is fully open (around 10" long)... The grip on racket is around 8" so till approximately the throat of the racket is already being measured by out stretched left arm
2. So 27" - 10" = 17".
3. Sweet spit is approx 6" from the top of racket
4. So 17 - 6 is 11"
5. Right arm is at a 40-45* forward at contact relative to outstretched left arm so it is shorter at contact in the horizontal distance that left arm was measuring so that pulls the racket further in.

A bent right arm, an Western grip etc will pull the racket even closer to the player.

Will's video is not really applicable in this case since he doesnt have an outstretched left arm in the first place.

 

[user92626]

1 to 2 feet is spacing might be a great cue for you. But not necessarily for me or others.

Then, what's a good cue for you to have a good spacing? Do share.

 

[Deleted member 775108]

Then, what's a good cue for you to have a good spacing? Do share.

Ill tell you a good way to develop some spacing awareness.

Get on a ball machine.

Try to deliberately hit the ball on the rackets near the throat - say 10 balls. And then try to deliberately hit the top of the bed - say 10 balls. Then hit 10 at the center of the bed. Dont do it it with your arm though, adjust with your eyes and feet.

Eventually your visual system will adjust and assign some correlation between the arm and the where the eyes perceive the ball is and at some point the arm may not be needed as a reference at all, would just at that point guarantee a full coil....

 

[user92626]

@user92626

It wont be 2 feet (or even almost 1 foot)due to many reason... Read below for some of them

1. Left hand is fully open (around 10" long)... The grip on racket is around 8" so till approximately the throat of the racket is already being measured by out stretched left arm
2. So 27" - 10" = 17".
3. Sweet spit is approx 6" from the top of racket
4. So 17 - 6 is 11"
5. Right arm is at a 40-45* forward at contact relative to outstretched left arm so it is shorter at contact in the horizontal distance that left arm was measuring so that pulls the racket further in.

A bent right arm, an Western grip etc will pull the racket even closer to the player.

Will's video is not really applicable in this case since he doesnt have an outstretched left arm in the first place.

I made this pix with two photos overlaying.
Photo 1: at 0:57 where his non-dom most extends.
Photo 2: at 1:17 where his racket makes contact. You can verify those time marks.

The black line (from hand to ball) is approx 2 feet long. Measure it against the racket length for accuracy. Picture worths thousand words.

 

[Deleted member 775108]

I made this pix with two photos overlaying.
Photo 1: at 0:57 where his non-dom most extends.
Photo 2: at 1:17 where his racket makes contact. You can verify those time marks.

The black line (from hand to ball) is approx 2 feet long. Measure it against the racket length for accuracy. Picture worths thousand words.

I'm measuring and talking about the green line in the picture below - the horizontal spacing - only.

 

[user92626]

I'm measuring and talking about the green line in the picture below - the horizontal spacing - only.

LOL. It's hard enough to visualize the black line (a simple direct line) within mseconds before you strike the ball, you want me to do some trigonometry vizualization?

Actually it's pretty easy for me to vizualize the black line, and I got A in HS Trigonometry. Ideally the line extends 2-3feet out at 45 degree angle. That's where I find my ideal contact point. Simple method, for me at least.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Then, what's a good cue for you to have a good spacing? Do share.

I had already indicated that in post #27. For a high contact point, it "seems" somewhat less than 1 foot to me. But I've probably made that determination when the approaching ball is still 5-10 feet away from me (maybe more).

It's actually much easier to gauge the distance (spacing) for a service toss than it is for a ball that is coming from your opponent at a decent pace. In the latter case, you need to make a reasonable estimate while the ball is not yet in close proximity. Parallax error.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Dropping the racquet is swinging.

That's not necessarily a universal definition

There is no slowing down from there unless you are Mr Curious. Fed should move faster, apparently the arm across didn’t help him and he had to T Rex it.

We really don't know if Roger uses his extended left arm for shot spacing. Perhaps he does so on a subconscious level. Or not at all. He may very well be using other cues or criteria for his spacing

When the off arm is extended toward the side (of the court), and the racket is dropping after the UT, players are sometimes still adjusting their spacing or executing adjustments steps.

And even tho I've started my racket drop, I have not necessarily fully committed to my forward swing path or my forward swing speed (or acceleration). It is not too late to alter swing path or swing speed as I'm adjusting my spacing. My racket drop for a fast forward swing might not be all that different for a slow or medium forward swing.

But all that aside, using the off arm to aid in spacing has worked for me, for numerous students and for a number of posters in this thread. If it does not do that for you, that's fine. But that doesn't mean it's not a useful tool for others.

 

[Happi]

My perspective (red spot is end of fully outstretched arm)

My perspective (yellow spot is sweetspot contact)

This for contact point halfway between waist and shoulders. Low or higher the ball gets the red spot and yellow spot get closer and closer.

@user92626 for me with my arm length, swing style, grip, slightly bent arm at contact it is between 7"-8" for center contact. Obvious the sweet spot in the racquet is big enough to allow a little more or less. Also modern racquets and spin game would mean the ideal for me should be 8"-9".

What is the blue spot

 

[Deleted member 775108]

What is the blue spot

Kimoni Quake Buster Dampener

 

[user92626]

I had already indicated that in post #27. For a high contact point, it "seems" somewhat less than 1 foot to me. But I've probably made that determination when the approaching ball is still 5-10 feet away from me (maybe more).

It's actually much easier to gauge the distance (spacing) for a service toss than it is for a ball that is coming from your opponent at a decent pace. In the latter case, you need to make a reasonable estimate while the ball is not yet in close proximity. Parallax error.

We CAN estimate and create a good strike zone with an incoming ball. That's a fact. It's not random. Nadal, Djo can hit a series of shots with seemly perfect spacing.

I noice I did have a prob w. spacing, so do most beginners. We don't arrive in tennis intuitively know how to space. We need tools, concepts.

This is where my 2ft spacing idea comes in. I actively move to create a zone in that space, train to fix my eyes on it. It just works.

Amazing that in tennis, beyond what we can see, there's alot of internal, intangible processing.

 

[ballmachineguy]

What is the blue spot

“Georgie, is this cashmere!?”