Overthinking knot tension and tension difference between mains and crosses

[K1Y]

As most believe, when using the same reference tension for both mains and crosses, the 'actual' tension on the crosses will be higher because of the shorter distance from side to side. Now I usually don't use knot tension and string 2 piece. I'm thinking I lose tension two times stringing the mains when tying off and only once when stringing the crosses. How big would the tension differential be between the mains and crosses when I string both at the same reference tension?

Better to start using knot tension or string crosses 2 lbs lower?

 

[PRS]

Best thing is to not overthink it and be consistent. I only started using the knot tension when I got a machine that had a knot tension button, but I noticed zero difference in the quality of the string jobs. I don't suggest different tension on the crosses unless it's a different type of string, because I just think it doesn't make enough of a difference for 99% of people to worry about.

Alternatively, if you really want to obsess over it, you can look into the Sergetti stringing method that takes into account the length of each individual string, knots, and even the string-to-string friction when pulling the crosses.

 

[esgee48]

When stringing mains and crosses at the same ref tension, I usually get ref tension ± 0.2# max difference. Generally it is less then 0.1#. Only time it is more is when I screw up and something happened because I did not clean the machine. If you are experiencing much lower cross tension than ref tension, examine your technique. I use to do 'knot tension' but stopped doing it when I noticed there was basically no difference in the resulting string job.

 

[daveblakemore]

As most believe, when using the same reference tension for both mains and crosses, the 'actual' tension on the crosses will be higher because of the shorter distance from side to side. Now I usually don't use knot tension and string 2 piece. I'm thinking I lose tension two times stringing the mains when tying off and only once when stringing the crosses. How big would the tension differential be between the mains and crosses when I string both at the same reference tension?

Better to start using knot tension or string crosses 2 lbs lower?

Just hypothesizing that when you get to the crosses you will be pulling the sides of the racquet together, adding or at least maintaining the tension on the mains.

 

[K1Y]

Best thing is to not overthink it and be consistent. I only started using the knot tension when I got a machine that had a knot tension button, but I noticed zero difference in the quality of the string jobs. I don't suggest different tension on the crosses unless it's a different type of string, because I just think it doesn't make enough of a difference for 99% of people to worry about.

Alternatively, if you really want to obsess over it, you can look into the Sergetti stringing method that takes into account the length of each individual string, knots, and even the string-to-string friction when pulling the crosses.

You didnt notice a softer or harder string bed when using or not using the knot tension button? I also dont wanna use different ref tensions. Just wanna balance it out for if it happens that I do that by accident when losing too much tension when tying off. Good to hear it doesnt make a difference in your experience.

When stringing mains and crosses at the same ref tension, I usually get ref tension ± 0.2# max difference. Generally it is less then 0.1#. Only time it is more is when I screw up and something happened because I did not clean the machine. If you are experiencing much lower cross tension than ref tension, examine your technique. I use to do 'knot tension' but stopped doing it when I noticed there was basically no difference in the resulting string job.

I am not sure I underdstand the first part of your post. My concern is that I dont wanna be playing with much tighter crosses than mains. Good to hear that you dont notice it!

 

[PRS]

You didnt notice a softer or harder string bed when using or not using the knot tension button? I also dont wanna use different ref tensions. Just wanna balance it out for if it happens that I do that by accident when losing too much tension when tying off. Good to hear it doesnt make a difference in your experience.

Nope, the difference was negligible so I couldn't tell a difference. I bet most people wouldn't notice a difference, although I'm sure there are a few people on here who do, and probably a few more who claim to, haha.

 

[Bambooman]

3.5 players are the most sensitive to mere flecks of paint weight. They can feel those loose knot crosses.

 

[SavvyStringer]

As most believe, when using the same reference tension for both mains and crosses, the 'actual' tension on the crosses will be higher because of the shorter distance from side to side. Now I usually don't use knot tension and string 2 piece. I'm thinking I lose tension two times stringing the mains when tying off and only once when stringing the crosses. How big would the tension differential be between the mains and crosses when I string both at the same reference tension?

Better to start using knot tension or string crosses 2 lbs lower?

You're over thinking THE WHOLE THING. No reason to change tension on crosses unless you like it. Science says what it says based on length of strings but you're also getting cross friction from the mains so who actually knows? For knot tension, use it or don't just be consistent. Personally I use knot tension on every string that will end up being a tie off string. Two piece that would be both outside mains and top and bottom cross. One piece that would be the last short side string and the final cross string.

 

[Irvin]

As most believe, when using the same reference tension for both mains and crosses, the 'actual' tension on the crosses will be higher because of the shorter distance from side to side. Now I usually don't use knot tension and string 2 piece. I'm thinking I lose tension two times stringing the mains when tying off and only once when stringing the crosses. How big would the tension differential be between the mains and crosses when I string both at the same reference tension?

Better to start using knot tension or string crosses 2 lbs lower?

If you were to string the mains and crosses at the same tension, no matter how long they are, the actual tension would be the same if there were no friction. But when you string the cross strings, the friction between the crosses and main make actual tension on crosses much lower. Try using a string meter on the mains and crosses and you will find the actual tension on crosses is much lower. IMO Dynamic tension on the string bed is more uniform because of the lower actual tension on the shorter crosses.

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

Irvin is correct. Re: Friction makes crosses approx 30% lower than reference tension.

 

[10shoe]

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/how-do-you-handle-the-question.629775/#post-12826224

 

[Rabbit]

I have a knot button, therefore I use it.

 

[Steve Huff]

I've read that some people have found that the crosses have been up to 20% lower than the mains because of tension loss due to friction.

 

[BenC]

one more reason why the mains have higher tension than they crosses

the tension in the mains rises when you tension the crosses. The mains are tensioned in a straight line and have to stretch when the crosses are tensioned.

From the thread 'Why tensions on crosses are much lower than those on mains?' http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...lower-than-those-on-mains.405377/post-6159325

 

[Irvin]

From the thread 'Why tensions on crosses are much lower than those on mains?' http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...lower-than-those-on-mains.405377/post-6159325

Tension in the mains does not rise when you string the crosses, the tension just go back to where they were at reference if they get that high.

 

[Trinity110]

Okay, this is based on no experiments at all, so I can't back up this opinion. I think that the tension in the mains does rise when stinging the crosses, for the same reason that crosses end up lower. The reason is how I think the relative strength of the oval behaves.

If you would take an unmounted automobile tire and compress it, it would behave the same no matter if 12 o'clock was facing up or turned to 9 o'clock. Picture an oval, rather than a round and even make it a more extreme oval, like length 1.5 times the width. If you would try to compress that oval with 12 pointed to 9 o'clock, it would compress much more easily than if 12 were straight up.

So we string mains, and our machines are designed to resist 12-6 compression, on top of the inherent resistance the shape offers. When we string the crosses, the sides compress to some degree, increasing the tension on the mains that existed before. (although they are of course simultaneously losing tension as time passes!! ) And as additional crosses are put in, the additional compression reduces tension on previously strung crosses.

I am not going to get into the fact that this would mean the crosses' tension would be higher at the bottom than at the top, strung top down. Because I just want to dodge that issue entirely!
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!

 

[Pumpkin]

In my view, the crosses should actually be under less tension, because they are inhibited by friction with the mains.

 

[K1Y]

Thank you all so so much. I really appreciate hearing from such an experienced crowd of stringers. Since there is so much debate I will just stick to stringing mains and crosses at the same tension for the same stringing and keeping it consistent. So that means not using the knot button. Maybe when I finally stick to one string and tension I will try out for myself if the knot function changes anything for me or (k)not.