Overwhelmed by strings

JayTrain_05

New User
I've dropped hours over the last couple days combing through the forum trying to figure out what I should go with but I feel further from a decision than when I started.

About me:
-3.0 making progress towards the next level. 3 months with 1:1 coaching which is making a big diff
-String breaker - I started breaking them pretty early, probably due to bad technique. I do hit with a lot of spin though and I use a SW grip
-Been using fb poly for about a year - Since I didn't want to restring all the time and I heard polys were the most durable, I switched to full bed poly (oops!)
-I like to play from the baseline. So far the focus has been keeping the ball in play but I'm starting to focus on developing offense
-3-6 hours play time per week
-I've been using solinco tour bite 16 most recently
-2 aero pro 2019 rackets (just got the second one so I can restring more)
-35 year old male

What I'm looking for:
-I've more recently heard that poly is more for pros and requires high RHS to reap benefits. I'm probably not generating "high" RHS so fb poly may be holding me back(?)
-I've heard about arm problems from poly and I might have experienced it? I've never felt elbow pain, instead I've felt some upper arm pain on ground strokes, esp non-dominant hand on 2HBH (lower shoulder area extending down through center of arm). I think my technique is a culprit and improvements there will probably help. That said, I don't want to take unnecessary health risks
-Decent/good playability. I was playing with fb poly for 3-4 months at a time. I only recently realized how bad this was and what it means for poly to go dead as I'm 15 hours into a fb solinco TB 16g and noticing the difference

What I'm thinking and my questions:
-I don't really know what to look for in my strings because I haven't really experimented with them, just tried a few diff polys but couldn't tell the diff at the time of switching
-I bought some nrg2 because I heard it closely simulates NG and thought it'd be interesting to try. I'm wondering if doing a fb of this will completely throw my game off. Historically I hit a lot of moonballs and still do from time to time. I still have some trouble keeping it in the backcourt without going long.
-Sounds like where I should really be headed is hybrid with a poly and syn gut but I can't figure out where to start since now I'd have to pick 2 strings and decide which one to put in the mains/crosses. But if this is the best route, should I waste time with the NRG2 multi's I have? For a hybrid setup, what would be considered safe for my arms (TB 17g? 18? or do I need a soft?) Whats a good syn gut to start with (I've avoided these thinking they were for noobs so know nothing about them) Are modern soft polys safe enough to put into a fb?
 

Jamieson27

New User
Assuming you want to keep costs to a reasonable level and you already own NRG2.

Do not use FB NRG2 if you are a string breaker IMO.

Racket 1. NRG2 mains with smooth poly crosses (yonex poly tour air or tier one ghostwire or isospeed cream)
Racket 2. smooth poly mains and NRG2 crosses.

If you want to hold off using the NRG try Gamma Syn Gut with Wearguard in its place at 17g for crosses and 16G for mains in the above hybrid set up

Try that set up given you have the NRG. With shaped poly i would use a smooth co-poly or even head Velocity MLT as a cross.
 

Jonesy

Legend
At 3.0 it doesn't really matter what string you put to improve quality, work on your technique and repetition. That being said, if you really need the taste of FB poly without the arm pain go with Kirschbaum Super Smash Orange at 45lbs.
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
Dont go away from poly, just string low, not more than 23 kg, you could even start with 20 or 21 to help you with power, depending on your racquet you could try a thinner gauge, but if you break a lot 16 is ok, if you like the feeling of tour bite you could stay with it, maybe try tour bite soft or something like that, try like 4 or 5 individual sets of strings that may suit you and once you decide which one you like most buy a reel and forget, that is if you dont plan to change racquets soon, because a string you like in this racquet might be totally different in other, just dont think too much about it, i would stick with poly, just try some durable not too controled polys, never string too tight, and buy a reel and forget about it
 
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jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
Put NRG2 in the cross at 4 lbs more than your poly mains. If you still have Tour bite, try that in the mains. If you don't have any Tour bite left, try Hyper g 17 gauge, 1.20mm in the main - this string is incredibly popular for a good reason, it's a fantastic string.

Restring every 10-14 days to keep your strings elastic and not notched.

If/when you run out of nrg2, try head velocity 16 gauge, 1.30mm, in natural color, it's a great string that's incredibly popular, and it's affordable.
 

1HBHfanatic

Legend
I've dropped hours over the last couple days combing through the forum trying to figure out what I should go with but I feel further from a decision than when I started.

About me:
-3.0 making progress towards the next level. 3 months with 1:1 coaching which is making a big diff
-String breaker - I started breaking them pretty early, probably due to bad technique. I do hit with a lot of spin though and I use a SW grip
........................

-what time frame are we talking about (hours/days/weeks/months)?
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
I would not use poly anywhere if you don’t plan to restring every 20 hours maximum. Since you say you’re 3.0-3.5 technically, I would use FB SG or a low powered multi like Velocity or FXP with an SG cross. If you insist on poly, I would recommend getting a cheap reel of Pros Pro poly at 1.25 mm and restring often ie every 12 hours. (fyi count 1 hour of drills as 1 hour of hitting; everything else is 1/2 to 1/3 since you really don’t hit that many balls while actually playing games.)
 

JayTrain_05

New User
Thanks everyone. I’ll try a few of these out. I guess since I have 2 packs of the nrg I’ll start with a hybrid of that and a smooth poly. I only have the 2 NRGs and 1 Wilson NXT duramax (TW sale got me ‍♂️)

For all the SG suggestions: What are the properties of SG? I’ve seen a lot on here about multi and poly but not SG. Why don’t higher level players use it and when in my progression should I switch?
 
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JayTrain_05

New User
-what time frame are we talking about (hours/days/weeks/months)?

last one was around 2 weeks. Others were probably around 4/5. Unfortunately I can’t remember all the strings, some were just given to me. I know one that broke rather quick was a Wilson prepackaged hybrid which I think was nxt and lux 4g
 

JayTrain_05

New User
I would not use poly anywhere if you don’t plan to restring every 20 hours maximum. Since you say you’re 3.0-3.5 technically, I would use FB SG or a low powered multi like Velocity or FXP with an SG cross. If you insist on poly, I would recommend getting a cheap reel of Pros Pro poly at 1.25 mm and restring often ie every 12 hours. (fyi count 1 hour of drills as 1 hour of hitting; everything else is 1/2 to 1/3 since you really don’t hit that many balls while actually playing games.)

How long do you think SG would last? Is it more resilient than multi for string breaking?
 

jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
Thanks everyone. I’ll try out a few of these out. I guess since I have 2 packs of the nrg I’ll start with a hybrid of that and a smooth poly.

For all the SG suggestions: What are the properties of SG? I’ve seen a lot on here about multi and poly but not SG. Why don’t higher level players use it and when in my progression should I switch?
Syn gut feels pretty similar to multi, both soft, good power. Syn gut has a cheaper construction, it's a large center filament which is wrapped by small filaments around it, then a thin sheath to hold it all together. Syn gut usually doesn't have a slick coating, and if it does it's usually wears out way faster than the slick coatings on multis. Multis are many small filaments wrapped by a sheath. This makes the string softer. Multis have higher quality coatings that last longer. Multis are more consistent than syn gut, meaning the ball comes off the bed the same way every time. There are premium syn guts, but they cost the same as multis and they are still not consistent.
 

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Thanks everyone. I’ll try a few of these out. I guess since I have 2 packs of the nrg I’ll start with a hybrid of that and a smooth poly. I only have the 2 NRGs and 1 Wilson NXT duramax (TW sale got me ‍♂)

For all the SG suggestions: What are the properties of SG? I’ve seen a lot on here about multi and poly but not SG. Why don’t higher level players use it and when in my progression should I switch?
SG is your every person type string. Change tension to get more or less power. Use until it breaks. Multis are for people looking for more comfort and power. Use until it breaks or lose control. Polys are for string breakers like less than 4-8 hours. Users provide power and they know when the string dies. Higher level players are generally 4.5+ and they have technique down and can provide own power. Poly gives them the control they need.
 

fuzz nation

G.O.A.T.
How long do you think SG would last? Is it more resilient than multi for string breaking?
I like the advice above for trying some non-poly layouts. Maybe you'll like them, maybe not. If a bed of full poly is your "personal normal" in terms of feel, other string may seem a little foreign, but it might also feel more comfortable or seem to give you a little free power without needing to swing out or your shoes.

The alarms that go off concerning using full beds of poly are somewhat justified. Many arms in the tennis world have been injured when folks have switched into those strings and paired them with lighter, stiffer frames (I'm talking about folks who aren't playing up near the level of college killers, etc.). So many of our pals out there in recent years have come down with tennis elbow or golfer's elbow after using Pure Drives, Aero Pro Drives, or the like strung up with full beds of perhaps RPM Blast or Luxilon that it's become a cliche.

There's no knowing whether poly will be bad for you in particular until after the trouble shows up in the form of some irritation or significant injury. Since you're not at a level where you can reasonably benefit too much from poly - it requires very high racquet speeds and very consistent swings to physically bend and perform as advertised - I'll add one more recommendation to try the syn. guts and multis out there.

Gosen OG Sheep Micro is a relatively durable syn. gut - I often use it as a cross in poly hybrids I string for locals - and that should give you half decent service life in a full bed. It is a stiffer syn. gut that may give you a feel that's close to poly, but you may also need one or two tries to get the tension right for you. That's pretty much the case with any new string setup, right? Two other syn. guts that are just a little softer than the Gosen are Babolat and Prince Original SG (without Duraflex).

If you really need a durable setup, you could also try a kevlar hybrid like Prince ProBlend; Kevlar mains and syn. gut crosses. A couple of our pals here still love this stuff and claim that it's generally less harsh than poly with very good service life.

If other string types turn out to be a disaster for you and you eventually want a little poly in your tennis diet, I'd say go with a hybrid that includes a light gauge poly main - 1.20mm or thinner - combined with perhaps a 16 ga. syn. gut cross. The lighter gauges of polys seem to be significantly less harsh than the thicker options, but they likely won't give you quite the same durability.
 

JayTrain_05

New User
Thanks again everyone. So here’s what I’m taking away from all of this. Hoping this might help future searchers:

Breaking strings does not make you a string breaker. To be a string breaker you need to break them in <10 hours of play (maybe <6)

The advice to “string as many times per year as you play in a week” is garbage. It was this advice that led me to think I needed the durability of poly. Unfortunately this is the advice that comes up on most sites when you Google stringing frequency.

If you hit with spin and play multiple times a week, then strings are not going to last for months. Just accept that you’ll be stringing frequently. I’m going to expect to restring around 15-20 hours per racket going forward and wait for a SG/multi to break as the signal to restring. I hit with a 3.5 flat hitter and he couldn’t remember the last time he restrung his racket. We swapped rackets for 20 mins and he ended up breaking his string a few minutes after swapping back. Possibly a coincidence but clearly flat hitting will preserve strings longer.

Avoid full bed poly unless you absolutely know what you’re doing. You have to be a hardcore tennis player to benefit and you’d know your way around string options if it were truly going to benefit you.

I’ll see how these non poly setups work and embrace SG. I don’t want to lose the spin I have but sounds like the poly wasn’t really a factor at my level. If I’m breaking strings in <15 hours or noticing a diff in my game I’ll go hybrid

Now I just need to decide how to rotate my rackets since there doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus on that one either, haha
 

Jamieson27

New User
"Avoid full bed poly unless you absolutely know what you’re doing. You have to be a hardcore tennis player to benefit and you’d know your way around string options if it were truly going to benefit you.

I’ll see how these non poly setups work and embrace SG. I don’t want to lose the spin I have but sounds like the poly wasn’t really a factor at my level. If I’m breaking strings in <15 hours or noticing a diff in my game I’ll go hybrid

Now I just need to decide how to rotate my rackets since there doesn’t seem to be a clear consensus on that one either, haha
[/QUOTE]

Just on the last three comments - I find fb poly goes dead too early for me to gain any incremental marginal value over other setups.
Spin is as more in the hands and racquet head speed than the strings - otherwise we'd all be using smooth round co-polys for the snapback. I can hit more spin in a fb gut than a friend wiht full be Hyper G or Blast etc. Individual differences in how we hit.

I string 2/3 at once and about 1 month later string the 3rd. By that point the first 2 have settled and I know have a fresh job with higher tension when i need.
If using a gut poly hybrid that'll be the first to be restrung as poly will be dead. A Gut/Multi (ie velocity cross) hybrid I will play to break which is about 2 months+ and this is after being strung at 58m/56x.
 

Brando

Professional
@JayTrain_05 , you've been gifted advice here from G.O.A.T.S and Legends alike, and it sounds like you're taking it. Good on ya. Now I hope they'll not take offense at my attempt to boil down their feedback to answer your initial questions. The most poly-like non-poly is syn gut, which is why they're guiding you there. Extruded like poly, SG is stiffer than most multifilaments and offers more spin potential but less power. The key measure there is stiffness. Knowing that, you can change the string to taste; stiffer being less powerful.

To find out if you like syn gut as a poly replacement, I say start with a full bed of Babolat Syn Gut strung at 54# in a 100 sq. in. frame and 53# in a 98. BSG is a middling-stiff (169 lbs./in.) SG with poly like (5.8) spin potential and an impressively low tension loss of 17%. I warrant it'll perform at least as well as as any poly you've played and feel more comfy in the bargain.

If it proves too powerful, try OGSM (184 stiff) or Forten Sweet 16 (189 stiff but weirdly softer-feeling). If BSG, though, feels underpowered, then string up the best multis out there to try first: Multifeel or Velocity at 55 or 54#, pending hoop size. By then you'll know...

[Oh, and I'm recommending 16 ga strings while assuming you have a 16x19 or 16x20 racquet. For an 18x19 or tighter, I'd go to a 17 gauge syn gut or multi.]
 
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g4driver

Legend
@JayTrain_05

String choices can be overwhelming for certain.. one of the issues I don't see addressed with your situation is the choice of your frame, the Pure Aero with its super open 16x19 pattern.

I too play with a Pure Aero, actually a PA+ My elbow along with many 5.0, 4.5 and 4,0 clients can't take a Pure Drive but we all do well with the PA and it more flexible frame.

As a player who used SG for 30 years, a fullbed of syn gut, Prince Pro Blend (Kelvar mains /syn gut) crosses or any combo of kelvar / zyex are three setups I personally hate now. I used SG and ProBlend growing up. Thankfully there are more choices today

Your stringing situation is what convinced me to buy my own stinger. 13 years later and thousands of frames across two stringing machines,, I've learned a lot from some very knowledge people on this forum and in person.

The PA will break strings more quickly than any other 16x19 frame in the 100 square inch size for a given player vs another 100 square inch 16x19 ATBE.Want something that will you a few months and not hurt your elbow?

Klip Legend (uncoated ) Natural Gut 1.30mm mains & Tier One Ghostwire 1.27 mm crosses

$30 for the main & $8 for the crosses for two framss.. less than $20 a frame in stings and you willl save stringing fees as it will last you months. IF you break in least than 2 months, go up to 1.35mm Natural Gut.

Will Syn Gut makns / Ghostwire crosses work? Yes.. but it won't last as long as NG, nor will feel as soft.. and NG/GW is far more spin friendly.'

if you go this route make sure you pick a stringer who knows how a string gut.. Pick a very good stringer, not a kid working part time in a shop.

1) tell them to ignore racquet cross tie off locations and instead tie poly.crosses to poly crosses

2) tell them to increase tension on the outer makns and outer crosses 10 to 15%.

3) start with 56M / 54X Gut is the most powerful string available and you are playing with a powerful frame.

Best wishes whatever path you take
 

Brando

Professional
Syn gut feels pretty similar to multi, both soft, good power. Syn gut has a cheaper construction, it's a large center filament which is wrapped by small filaments around it, then a thin sheath to hold it all together. Syn gut usually doesn't have a slick coating, and if it does it's usually wears out way faster than the slick coatings on multis. Multis are many small filaments wrapped by a sheath. This makes the string softer. Multis have higher quality coatings that last longer. Multis are more consistent than syn gut, meaning the ball comes off the bed the same way every time. There are premium syn guts, but they cost the same as multis and they are still not consistent.
@jimmy8 , if multis perform better for your game than syn guts, then great; more power too you. But please don't go around posting your personal opinions as fact. There's no research that suggests multis somehow provide a more consistent stringbed than syn guts. If anything, the opposite can be argued since multis lose tension faster (because they are softer) and when their slick coating wears off (quickly, because their woven fibers move around), they tend to lock up faster (again, because woven fibers create more friction).

Meanwhile some syn guts do indeed have a coating but, when it wears away, the extruded string beneath is inherently slicker and stiffer than a multi's woven fibers, which means they don't notch as easily. And, yes, there is actual research that confirms this:
How Tennis Strings "Go Dead — Part 1"
Beneath Figure 12 in this paper, the researchers discuss an anomaly. They observed two syn guts (Prince Synthetic Gut Original and Tecnifibre NRG2) producing poly-like spin potential thought impossible for a nylon, particularly because it rose with play (while poly spin sputtered out). So they re-tested to confirm it, hypothesizing that the observed main-only notching was the likely cause. In my experience, every quality syn gut proves this hypothesis. Indeed it results in syn gut's infamous string travel, which is a legit issue for some. (But I personally like how my freely traveling mains confirm I'm getting a lot of nice spin on the ball.)

Oh, and for the record, premium syn guts (averaging $5) often cost less than half as much as most multis ($10-20) because, extruded, they are cheaper to make. But that doesn't mean their performance characteristics are somehow "cheaper," just different: stiffer, less powerful, and so, providing a longer lasting stringbed that I personally feel is more consistent. But then, that's just my opinion...
 
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legcramp

Professional
So complicated, ISOSPEED Baseline for the mains with the cheapest synthetic gut reel you can find for the crosses. Or just do the poly in a full bed.
 

jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
@jimmy8 , if multis perform better for your game than syn guts, then great; more power too you. But please don't go around posting your personal opinions as fact. There's no research that suggests multis somehow provide a more consistent stringbed than syn guts. If anything, the opposite can be argued since multis lose tension faster (because they are softer) and when their slick coating wears off (quickly, because their woven fibers move around), they tend to lock up faster (again, because woven fibers create more friction).

Meanwhile some syn guts do indeed have a coating but, when it wears away, the extruded string beneath is inherently slicker and stiffer than a multi's woven fibers, which means they don't notch as easily. And, yes, there is actual research that confirms this:
How Tennis Strings "Go Dead — Part 1"
Beneath Figure 12 in this paper, the researchers discuss an anomaly. They observed two syn guts (Prince Synthetic Gut Original and Tecnifibre NRG2) producing poly-like spin potential thought impossible for a nylon, particularly because it rose with play (while poly spin sputtered out). So they re-tested to confirm it, hypothesizing that the observed main-only notching was the likely cause. In my experience, every quality syn gut proves this hypothesis. Indeed it results in syn gut's infamous string travel, which is a legit issue for some. (But I personally like how my freely traveling mains confirm I'm getting a lot of nice spin on the ball.)

Oh, and for the record, premium syn guts (averaging $5) often cost less than half as much as most multis ($10-20) because, extruded, they are cheaper to make. But that doesn't mean their performance characteristics are somehow "cheaper," just different: stiffer, less powerful, and so, providing a longer lasting stringbed that I personally feel is more consistent. But then, that's just my opinion...
Yes, you are right.
 

Brando

Professional
Wow, @jimmy8 , a person in this day and age who can simply and directly admit that he may have misspoken. You are my new personal hero or heroine, as the case may be.
 

nov

Hall of Fame
@JayTrain_05

Pick a very good stringer, not a kid working part time in a shop.

1) tell them to ignore racquet cross tie off locations and instead tie poly.crosses to poly crosses

2) tell them to increase tension on the outer makns and outer crosses 10 to 15%.
Hello,
This part got me interested. What you would achieve using these string tips for gut/poly?
 

jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
Wow, @jimmy8 , a person in this day and age who can simply and directly admit that he may have misspoken. You are my new personal hero or heroine, as the case may be.
I'm just tired of arguing with people right now. I didn't even read your whole post. Some people on here just want to argue back and forth forever, it gets tiring.
 

g4driver

Legend
Hello,
This part got me interested. What you would achieve using these string tips for gut/poly?

1) prevents premature breakage of the gut when a player shanks a serve, overhead or other shot and hits the poly tie-off on a gut main.. solution : tie off poly crosses on poly crosses..

2) the outer four strings have only one string next to them and you are securing those four strings with knots. I simplified the process by stating "tell them to increase the tension on the outer mains and outer crosses by 10 to 15%". I don't want to overwhelm someone telling them to tell their stringer watch a video and replicate it. ;)

This video by Richard Parnell shows him adding 4 kilos or 8.8 lbs to the 8th outer main and then 4 kilos to the 7th main.


Then in this video starting at 4:55 "And now we are going to tension it with the extra kilos for the knot which I normally put about 4 kilos and certain machines just give it as a percentage so I work at 20%"


Don't take my word. If you don't know who Richard Parnell is, do a google search for him. Not only is he a world-class stringer, but he is also an incredibly helpful mentor to many stringers.
 
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D

Deleted member 775108

Guest
@JayTrain_05

String choices can be overwhelming for certain.. one of the issues I don't see addressed with your situation is the choice of your frame, the Pure Aero with its super open 16x19 pattern.

I too play with a Pure Aero, actually a PA+ My elbow along with many 5.0, 4.5 and 4,0 clients can't take a Pure Drive but we all do well with the PA and it more flexible frame.

As a player who used SG for 30 years, a fullbed of syn gut, Prince Pro Blend (Kelvar mains /syn gut) crosses or any combo of kelvar / zyex are three setups I personally hate now. I used SG and ProBlend growing up. Thankfully there are more choices today

Your stringing situation is what convinced me to buy my own stinger. 13 years later and thousands of frames across two stringing machines,, I've learned a lot from some very knowledge people on this forum and in person.

The PA will break strings more quickly than any other 16x19 frame in the 100 square inch size for a given player vs another 100 square inch 16x19 ATBE.Want something that will you a few months and not hurt your elbow?

Klip Legend (uncoated ) Natural Gut 1.30mm mains & Tier One Ghostwire 1.27 mm crosses

$30 for the main & $8 for the crosses for two framss.. less than $20 a frame in stings and you willl save stringing fees as it will last you months. IF you break in least than 2 months, go up to 1.35mm Natural Gut.

Will Syn Gut makns / Ghostwire crosses work? Yes.. but it won't last as long as NG, nor will feel as soft.. and NG/GW is far more spin friendly.'

if you go this route make sure you pick a stringer who knows how a string gut.. Pick a very good stringer, not a kid working part time in a shop.

1) tell them to ignore racquet cross tie off locations and instead tie poly.crosses to poly crosses

2) tell them to increase tension on the outer makns and outer crosses 10 to 15%.

3) start with 56M / 54X Gut is the most powerful string available and you are playing with a powerful frame.

Best wishes whatever path you take

@g4driver

Any thoughts on prestretch in this situation using the following? The Wise Tensionhead can do 10-25% (will pull that much percentage more before letting go and repulling at the desired tension)

I did Gut (Klip16) /Poly (GW17) at 57/55 on 2009 Pure Drive (tighter pattern) and it was glorious till the crosses died. Going to GW17 will help

Prestretch either mains or crosses using the Wise in this situation? Still do the tension increases for last mains and crosses?
 

g4driver

Legend
Two primary reasons for pre stretching.

1) minimize tension loss
2) remove coil memory

some clients like some strings prestretched, most don't ask. I personally don't do any pre-stretching of any strings I use in my own frames. I manually pre-stretch gut, cream and YPTA to remove coil memory. (Pull string by hand around a smooth cylinder to remove the coil memory)

if you look at WTA/ATP events and majors you'll see tickets with some players requesting a pre-stretch on their strings.. There's probably a thread around here that shows player's ticket (stinging instructions), but I don't recall seeing anything greater than 10% Prestretch
 

Brando

Professional
I'm just tired of arguing with people right now. I didn't even read your whole post. Some people on here just want to argue back and forth forever, it gets tiring.
G'ah! [insert spit-take] Now it's me who stands corrected. In the bigger picture, that's an opinion I can't argue with...
 

g4driver

Legend
Hello,
This part got me interested. What you would achieve using these string tips for gut/poly?

Here is an article that Richard Parnell discusses the issue I was writing about

"Natural gut has lower “knot break” strength (threshold) than standard synthetics. This is the string’s ability to resist angular forces, which is exactly what you have when a player frames a ball. Because this is more likely to occur with a less advanced player, you may find yourself struggling to explain to your 2.5 player with arm problems just why his expensive string only lasted two hours!"

 

JayTrain_05

New User
So I ended up going with poly mains and multi crosses. Specifically did lux Alu power and nrg2 on the cross. Thought this would be a good first step away from fb poly as I’m 3-0 so far this season and would love to keep it going and move up to the next level.

I hit with a guy who’s much better than me today. He’s a flat hitter, go for broke type. I tried asking him to tone it down and just get a rally ball going but he only knows one gear.

I definitely noticed a difference but I’m struggling to really describe it. On regular strokes the strings actually felt weaker and the ball tended to come off the racket at a higher angle (I use a SW grip). I was hitting late a lot due to the other guys pace but still it was reminding me of the issues I was having before I switched to fb poly - hitting long and loopy. I did notice that it was much more forgiving on defensive shots. I got some back with desperation wrist flicks that would have never cleared the net with my fb poly. I didn’t notice a diff on serves yet. Oddly I just felt overall more disconnected from the ball which seems contrary to the “feel” aspect of softer strings

Going forward what adjustments in my technique should I try to make for the launch angle issue? I’m thinking I just need to flatten my swing out more. Any thoughts on why fb poly just felt more responsive and even powerful to me? Appreciate the insights
 

K1Y

Professional
So I ended up going with poly mains and multi crosses. Specifically did lux Alu power and nrg2 on the cross. Thought this would be a good first step away from fb poly as I’m 3-0 so far this season and would love to keep it going and move up to the next level.

I hit with a guy who’s much better than me today. He’s a flat hitter, go for broke type. I tried asking him to tone it down and just get a rally ball going but he only knows one gear.

I definitely noticed a difference but I’m struggling to really describe it. On regular strokes the strings actually felt weaker and the ball tended to come off the racket at a higher angle (I use a SW grip). I was hitting late a lot due to the other guys pace but still it was reminding me of the issues I was having before I switched to fb poly - hitting long and loopy. I did notice that it was much more forgiving on defensive shots. I got some back with desperation wrist flicks that would have never cleared the net with my fb poly. I didn’t notice a diff on serves yet. Oddly I just felt overall more disconnected from the ball which seems contrary to the “feel” aspect of softer strings

Going forward what adjustments in my technique should I try to make for the launch angle issue? I’m thinking I just need to flatten my swing out more. Any thoughts on why fb poly just felt more responsive and even powerful to me? Appreciate the insights
you have to mention gauge and tension otherwise this is really vague and not logical to get less power from nrg instead of a 16 gauge TB. You can post a vid of you playing. otherwise the advice is just hit the ball. If you play long then spin the ball. if its too high then hit through the ball. If you dont enjoy the strings then just string up regular synthetic gut or head velocity. use the cost of those expensive strings on lessons. You can get to atleast 5.0 with SG
 

Brando

Professional
@JayTrain_05 , I'm afraid that somewhere along the line you may have gotten the wrong impression that poly strings (alone or in a hybrid) will help you "move up to the next level." It's not that poly will help you play better. It's that once you've achieved a certain level of play, you then need it. That level is one where you're hitting so hard that racquet prep is measured in milliseconds, not seconds, and accuracy is in centimeters, not feet. At this level you need poly spin to help you keep the ball in because on practically every. single. shot. you're thumping the ball as hard as you can because, if you don't, your opponent will use that extra time to do it past you. As a 3.0 you can't even functionally access the source of that spin, which means you're risking elbow and/or shoulder injury (injury that starts before you begin to feel it) for nothing.
 

rrepp

Rookie
With all due respect....if you're a 3.0 then you should just get some syn gut and string it mid point of the racquet's range and just go play. Once your game develops you can experiment with tension, and eventually when you are a 4.0 you could experiment with strings. Keeping your racquet and strings the same for a period of time will help you develop consistency. Spend your money on instruction from a pro rather than racquets and/or strings at this point in your tennis life
 

LocNetMonster

Professional
So I ended up going with poly mains and multi crosses. Specifically did lux Alu power and nrg2 on the cross. Thought this would be a good first step away from fb poly as I’m 3-0 so far this season and would love to keep it going and move up to the next level.

I hit with a guy who’s much better than me today. He’s a flat hitter, go for broke type. I tried asking him to tone it down and just get a rally ball going but he only knows one gear.

I definitely noticed a difference but I’m struggling to really describe it. On regular strokes the strings actually felt weaker and the ball tended to come off the racket at a higher angle (I use a SW grip). I was hitting late a lot due to the other guys pace but still it was reminding me of the issues I was having before I switched to fb poly - hitting long and loopy. I did notice that it was much more forgiving on defensive shots. I got some back with desperation wrist flicks that would have never cleared the net with my fb poly. I didn’t notice a diff on serves yet. Oddly I just felt overall more disconnected from the ball which seems contrary to the “feel” aspect of softer strings

Going forward what adjustments in my technique should I try to make for the launch angle issue? I’m thinking I just need to flatten my swing out more. Any thoughts on why fb poly just felt more responsive and even powerful to me? Appreciate the insights

It's not entirely the string job. You said you were hitting late and there lies the issue. Hit with the dude again, but the next time stand back two feet further from the baseline (or more AKA Nadal) than usual. You'll give yourself more time to prep (get your racquet back and move) for the incoming ball. Being setup earlier, you will make better contact.
 

JayTrain_05

New User
Yup, you’re right and I should’ve realized that. Hit with someone else yesterday and didn’t have the problem at all. Strings felt different but it didn’t feel like it had an impact on my strokes other than being able to get some back in defensive situations that I wouldnt have with fb poly. That other guy just hits too big for my current level I guess.
 

amitd79

New User
@JayTrain_05
Klip Legend (uncoated ) Natural Gut 1.30mm mains & Tier One Ghostwire 1.27 mm crosses

$30 for the main & $8 for the crosses for two framss.. less than $20 a frame in stings and you willl save stringing fees as it will last you months. IF you break in least than 2 months, go up to 1.35mm Natural Gut.

Best wishes whatever path you take
For the above gut/poly setup, after how many hours of play will the cross poly go dead? I am a 4.0 and usually restring FB poly after about 10-15 hours of play.
 

g4driver

Legend
For the above gut/poly setup, after how many hours of play will the cross poly go dead? I am a 4.0 and usually restring FB poly after about 10-15 hours of play.

Look up David Bruner in the USTA Mobile App. His 2022 record as a 4.0 is 30-6 including championship matches based on a quick count. That's an 83% winning percentage as a 4.0, playing the majority of his 4.0 matches with a 3.5C. His losses in doubles aren't because of him. You would never hit to him if you could hit to his partners. I certainly don't hit him if I have a better choice of going to his doubles partners. I strung his Prince Warrior Textreme 100 frame (16x18 pattern) on April 29th, then the next one on July 26th. That's 3 days shy of 3 months using Klip Legend 1.35mm / Ghostwire 1.27mm

He has two frames, and it seems he plays with one until he breaks the mains. Your mileage may vary, but he will most likely be bumped to 4.5 yet again. Can't imagine him staying at 4.0 honestly, but he might.

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I have multiple 4.0 male players using either 1.35mm or 1.30mm Klip Legend / 1.27 Ghostwire crosses or Babolat or Lux 1.30mm Natural Gut and 1.27mm crosses and they all get 2 to 3 months out of it without any elbow, wrist or shoulder injuries. GW is soft enough that it hasn't bothered any client as a cross and it holds tension long enough to get far more than 20 hours out of it.
 

g4driver

Legend
@amitd79

Here is another guy using the same setup 1.35mm Klip Legend mains / 1.27 Ghostwire crosses in his 2019 Pure Aero at 56M/54X

April 30 one frame strung then July 25th next frame strung...so 5 days shy of 3 months. Michael Hauser 33-7 record as a 4.0C (27-6 in non-championship matches) then 6-1 in championship matches (SC State Championships). That's an 82.5% winning percentage using strings for nearly 3 months.


So despite the hoards of Talk Tennis posters who have never strung a frame, I offer the names, tension, and records of two 4.0 guys winning 4 out of 5 matches as 4.0 players using Klip NG in 1.35 mm with GW 1.27mm crosses. Those two guys asked for the thicker 1.35mm gut after breaking the 1.30mm around the 8 to 9-week point.

Bruner's frames are strung at 60M/58X (his choice)
Hauser's are 56M/54X (his choice)
 

Brando

Professional
While I'm no fan of recommending poly strings to under-5.0 players, I believe @g4driver has found the exception to the rule in this setup. Even if the soft poly Ghost Wire 16 gauge crosses go deader than a doornail after 10 or more hours of play, those natural gut mains (as the strings that really count) will snap before ever losing their superior elasticity. That means the player's arm health is never a risk, at least not from the strings.

My only question is about performance. (And it's an earnest question, not a challenge.) When poly has gone dead, its typically so stiff that the absence of elasticity makes it play more lively, not less. Given natural gut's tendency to feel overpowered, might this not make the stringbed feel too lively over time? Or is that what the thicker gauge and higher tension of the gut addresses?
 

g4driver

Legend
While I'm no fan of recommending poly strings to under-5.0 players, I believe @g4driver has found the exception to the rule in this setup. Even if the soft poly Ghost Wire 16 gauge crosses go deader than a doornail after 10 or more hours of play, those natural gut mains (as the strings that really count) will snap before ever losing their superior elasticity. That means the player's arm health is never a risk, at least not from the strings.

My only question is about performance. (And it's an earnest question, not a challenge.) When poly has gone dead, its typically so stiff that the absence of elasticity makes it play more lively, not less. Given natural gut's tendency to feel overpowered, might this not make the stringbed feel too lively over time? Or is that what the thicker gauge and higher tension of the gut addresses?

I have 4.5 players who break 1.30mm polys in 16x19 frames in less than 15 hours.. some take 20 hours. The key is limiting hard and fast rules and keeping an open mind to finding solutions for clients, regardless of the level without hurting them while allowing them to enjoy tennis.

my personal experience as both a player and a stinger is there is a lot of variation in both players and strings. The higher tensions tame the power of the gut without causing arm problems.

many 4.0+ male players will break multis and syn gut too quickly (less than 15 hours ) and the stringing costs become an issue.

Finding a combo that works well together for a player at the higher range of 4.0 while keeping their arms/elbows healthy is my goal. I have found that 1.30 and 1.35mm Natural Gut / 1.27mm GW works well for many 4.0 to 4.5 players until they break the gut or it is nearly broken. It cost less than restringing every 15 hours and they win at 80% or higher. Having an open mind and stringing to find a solution for each client rather than having too many hard limits allows a stringer to create solutions for various clients with unique requirements

The higher than normal tension of the natural gut lowers its power of it, without hurting elbows, arms, and wrists. These aren't low-level 4.0 players as indicated by their records for anyone to see. Would I suggest someone play with HG 1.25mm for 20+ hours? No.. but I can keep HGS 1.25mm / GW 1.22mm in my 342-gram PA+ frames for 20 hours without hurting my elbow, and I can keep Lux 1.30mm NG / GW 1.27mm in the same frames even longer. I have had TE Twice in life and have played tennis since the early 80s. Having too many hard limits will limit your solutions as a player and a stringer.

For the players who have a higher USTA rating than their actual on-court performance, aka the 4.5V (my term for those with their vanity ratings) with dismal records like 1-15 that resemble the year-end records of the New York Jets and the Jacksonville Jaguars, I offer this advice :

1) appeal down
2) find a good stringer who has your best interest in mind
3) take lessons from a good teaching pro

Creating too many hard and fast rules like "all polys need to be cut out by xx hours" just simply limits the options.. there are some things I won't do as a stringer, but keeping an open mind to creating some unique solutions for each client is my approach as a stringer.
 
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g4driver

Legend
Given natural gut's tendency to feel overpowered, might this not make the stringbed feel too lively over time? Or is that what the thicker gauge and higher tension of the gut address?

The thicker gut allows them to play longer without breaking it too quickly and it holds tension longer than the thinner 1.30mm gut from the same brand. The higher tension tames the power. NG is incredibly powerful. While I string my polys in the low 50s, I string 1.30mm NG in the upper 50s to tame the power.

I have four frames in my bag:

2 HGS 1.25mm 54M / GW 1.22mm 52X (my primary frames). I hit with these about 99% of the time. I put roughly 18-20 hours on them. Once the mains stick out of place, I restring them.

2 Lux 1.35mm 58M / GW 1.27mm 56X ( these feel so buttery soft and more powerful than the HGS frames)...mostly for fun and I don't get caught up in restringing them every few weeks. They feel buttery smooth.
 

Brando

Professional
Once the mains stick out of place, I restring them.
I can't disagree with a word you've said, @g4driver . If everyone had a stringer like you, there'd be little or no TE. Mulling it over, I present my no-poly-under-5.0 "rule" because so few experienced poly players accompany their recommendations of great poly strings out there with warnings to less experienced players about the safe handling of poly (like the sentence I highlight above). If the average 3.0-4.0 player actually knew that their poly mains sticking out of place signals a string change then "there'd be no need for tinkers" like me.
 
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liftordie

Hall of Fame
I can't disagree with a word you've said, @g4driver . If everyone had a stringer like you, there'd be little or no TE. Mulling it over, I present my no-poly-under-5.0 "rule" because so few experienced poly players accompany their recommendations of great poly strings out there with warnings to less experienced players about the safe handling of poly (like the sentence I highlight above). If the average 3.0-4.0 player actually knew that their poly mains sticking out of place signals a string change then "there'd be no need for tinkers" like me.
Pro players are destroying their bodies with poly... So imagine what happen to rec players... Even 5.0 and above.
 

guanzishou

G.O.A.T.
How long do you think SG would last? Is it more resilient than multi for string breaking?
I use full bed of synthetic gut (Wilson Synthetic Gut Power 16). I break it about twice a month on average. I hit roughly 2 hours daily. I hit with a lot of varieties of shot, both topspin and flat shots.

One of my tennis club friends also use a full bed of synthetic gut. He doesn't break the string for a long long time, perhaps several months. (Gosen Micro Sheep 16 cross string and Wilson Synthetic Gut Power 16 main string). He doesn't hit with a lot of top spin though.
 

Brando

Professional
Let's say, @guanzishou [love that handle; 'you a writer?] , you play 5 times a week for 2 hours. That means your Wilson syn gut lasts you 20 hrs before breaking. That's how long Sweet 16 lasts me, OGSM lasting up to 30 hours (in a 16x19 hoop). Meanwhile Mutlifeel lasts maybe 12 or so hours before it looses too much tension to play with its initial control. [And I hit with some mean topspin.]
 

chrisb

Professional
If you are a 3.0 player syn gut is fine prince or gosen are fine 16 gauge should be ok 55 lbs should be good to startout aovend work on your game to have fun and improve
 
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