Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.
Thanks gentlemen ^.
For those of you looking for backup setups:
Gosen OGSM 1.23 x MSV Co-Focus 1.18 @ 44 x 40 lbs
I'm currently playing with Pac x CoF @ 48x44, and tried this setup about a year ago at 52x48 -- hated it.
But after reading a thread on syngut mains x poly crosses and one on ELT where syngut @ 35 has been getting rave reviews, I decided to give it another try -- albeit considerably looser strung. Now that outdoor season is beginning where I live, I need a reliable backup setup that can handle moisture and the occasional puddle.
I have to say that off the bat I was much more impressed than the last time. A year ago there was no feel, no power, and no spin. Eight pounds looser and the difference was considerable: it was much more comparable to my usual setup, probably 90% of the power, 85% of the spin, albeit 75% of the feel. No string movement, and it seems arm-friendly.
For an occasional backup stick when there's inclement weather, not bad at all. It seems to be solid and reliable, and I didn't mind at all playing long stretches with it.
I'm now tempted to give Isospeed Energetic 1.20 x CoF another shot as well to compare. But I'm certainly content enough to stick with this for a while.
I've been going back and forth between Classic and ToughGut to go along with CoF (52/48 ).
Main reason I went to ToughGut was for durability and for me - easier to string.
However - getting better at stringing the Classic, using string savers, the durability issue is solved.
I do prefer the Classic as it plays a little softer and I can also play more aggressive with it. So I'm going back to 100% Classic w/CoF.
Still thanking my lucky stars that I ever stumbled across this thread and felt prompted to begin looking at gut/poly at all.
Presently liking VS/CoF massively in my Blade 98, and look forward to contrasting later with Pac Classic/CoF. Tried the latter in several frames and it was just everything I could ask for and more in particular two frames. Where it hasn't worked so well for me previously has been in more powerful open rackets, which is surely due to too low tensions.
Anyhow, just 'reporting back'... TBH I'm still staggered and delighted by the duration, performance, value for money and comfort these set ups provide.
I am also thankful for this thread and enjoying the set up but am perplexed by the longevity that you guys are getting. I love the playability but suffer from a severe trampoline effect after about 12 to 15 hours. I feel like I have to restring even though I have not broken a string to get the control back.
Weird! What's your racket, and what tensions are you stringing at?
Head Extreme Pro 2.0 16x19
16g gut mains at 55#, 17g Co-Focus at 50# on Stringway drop weight
This is the third set of similar string jobs that play GREAT for 10-12 hours and then feels like a rapid drop off into the awful trampoline loss of control. I read somewhere else on these threads that this can happen while the poly is dying and then after its dead its playable again. But I haven't had the patience to try to play through this period. I am going to restring one tonight and maybe leave the other to experiment; either by recycling the gut or measuring how long it takes on a ball machine to get out that phase. Ideas?
That's so weird! When I used to experience poly death, it happened somewhere around hours 20-25 and it wasn't a trampoline effect so much as it just felt terrible. But when I started stringing for myself (ie no prestretch) the sensation vanished.
You are a bit high in your tensions, and I don't know whether or not you have contemporary strokes (ie topspin) or classic (ie flat) ones, so I'm not sure whether there are simple adjustments that could be made to avoid this.
Do you have racquettune or a tension meter in order to determine whether or not you're truly experiencing rapid tension loss? I think getting that kind of objective data might be a helpful first step right now.
In any event, I do think that you should be getting 2-4x the time you're currently getting. That's been my experience anyway.
Thanks Smasher, good idea on the racquettune, I'll tr that and see if I can get some data that will shed light. Modern strokes.
That's so strange. Perhaps Big Kahuna can assist here since he has the same setup as you!
The only reason I can think of right now is such a remote possibility it's barely worth mentioning: improperly tied knots.
I feel ridiculous even typing it!
Even if your crosses are losing some tension, that should in theory be allowing your mains to deflect and snap back even more. And in any event, slightly changing the angle of your racket face to increase spin should more than compensate for it. But if things were that easy to fix, you probably would have done it subconsciously by now!
It's possible that you're just really sensitive to tensions, in which case restringing your crosses might remedy it (note: even though there are a lot of folks on these boards who've done this, it's still something that could potentially damage/break your racket -- so make sure you've got a 6-pt mount and make an informed decision).
Otherwise, I'd suggest taking racquettune readings both of the stringjob you feel has had it as well your newest one, and then take readings after every time you hit. That'll at least give you objective evidence about any tension loss.
That is so interesting you mention that, because I had the same thought after reading your other comments. I am a novice stringer and still struggle with knots, so that is a very real possibility. I will focus a bit more on knots next time and see if that makes a difference.
I posted on the other gut/poly thread to try to get Big Kahanu's take, but he recommends stringing after 12 hours or so anyway, so that made me think my observations were more normal with this set up. I have heard others call this racquet a "string eater," so maybe that is one of the manifestations. I am using a full bed of Yonex PTP 125 now and it plays even better, so would likely restring that stuff every 12 hours anyway. Guess I'll get lots of practice tying knots!
Holy moley, we have a prime suspect!
The best advice I can give is for you to do Parnell knots for everything, get a starting clamp if you don't already have one, and add 5 lbs when you tension your last strings.
(If you don't already do all of these things.)
In case you're interested, there are some very good youtube videos for all of these.
Agreed, and thanks for the tips. Do you add 5# to outside mains only or crosses too? I did buy a starting clamp after my first 3 jobs and you're right it's much better. The knots on synthetics seems easy, gut is medium hard, but that darn poly is tough to get the knots tight!
I do +5# on both mains and crosses.
If you haven't already seen this, imo this is one of the best youtube vids out there on tightening knots.
Personally I haven't found poly knots to be that much more difficult than any other ones. It may just be that it comes with practice!
After playing this morning I've decided to call time on my Pacific-COFocus experiment. I picked my spare racket out of my bag that still had my old string setup in it [Cyclone mains-Sensation crosses] and to me it felt much cleaner. the sweet spot felt bigger and my forehand felt crisper. I can't say that I noticed any comfort issues either. So there you go, it's not for me so the search goes on.
Best wishes, liam1!
I have countless hours in my 95D now with 16g pac/18g msv.
I'm wondering how everyone with with big, open string patterns are doing. *cough*Kahuna*cough*
Plus it's nice to hear from you guys. I've not seen thread on the first page in a while.
Ironically, I am ALSO now playing with a full bed of Yonex PTP 125 and I agree - for the most part, it performs even better than my gut/poly hybrid. I am getting nearly the same touch strung at 45 lbs as I did in the hybrid, with the same power, nearly the same comfort, and a lot more spin.
Beyond that, I just tried the new Yonex PTP 120, and it has even more feel, power, and spin than the 125. This poly plays more like a cross between gut and poly than it does like your traditional poly - very soft and playable.
I am getting about 15-20 from each set before I feel I should cut it out - very good tension maintenance. Read the TW review on this string. It is in the Top Five of all polys right now in Overall Performance on Stringforum and was voted the Newcomer Poly of the Year last year by them - finished second overall in Best String of 2012.
This string is a great match for any of the more "modern game" racquets out there. Really, really impressed!
Missed you all, too. :grin:
I love this setup in my Volkl V1 Classic Mids. Am about to switch to the Organix V1 Pro, will see how I like it in that.
But as someone who...
1. Strings for himself, and
2. Is not a string breaker, so I only string about once a month
I hate stringing this setup. Gut is nerve wracking for me, I'm paranoid about kinking the stuff, and rightly so since I've ruined gut before via kinking it. And the Co Focus is just difficult for me to weave.
So I found a place here in Austin, for $20 they pick up your racquet and string it with your string and then drop it off the next day. Oh heck yeah.
Wish I could find a multi or easy to string poly I liked as good as this setup, but I just REALLY dislike stringing gut to the point if I keep this setup I'll pay these guys to do it. Maybe I'll sell my Neos 1000 and buy a ball machine.
Have you tried the PTP as a cross with your gut yet? Thinking about going to a larger headsize and sticking to the gut/poly hybrid. I'm just not good enough for the 95D and considering a 100sq, 16x19 pattern. It's not that large of a change but I need every bit I can get.
so msv co-focus 1.18 can't be found on tw,
what's second best slick poly for natural gut main?
Mosquito bite is a good option if you're looking for something thin and soft in the poly range. You could also wait a bit or call tw and see what's happening with the 1.18 gauge.
There's also a US-based competitor of TW who stocks it in several colours and gauges.
They're who I got my reel from: 1.18 in white.
Thanks. will order one reel. Really interested in testing out this seemingly THE number one cross for gut.
If you need some, let me know.
Actually, no. I am very pleased with my full bed poly set-up right not with the Yonex PTP 120. It almost has the feel and comfort of the hybrid, but more spin and control. I am sure the PTP 120 would make an awesome cross string in a hybrid if the MSV Co-Focus 18g runs out.
Based on overall play test results on Stringforum and from my experience, other good poly cross choices might be:
Yonex Poly Tour Pro 125
Tecnifibre Black Code
Kirschbaum Pro Line No. II
Signum Pro Poly Plasma
Prince Beast XP
Signum Pro Hyperion
All are smooth so they will not saw through the gut quickly and rather slippery (ideal for allowing the main string to slide freely on the string bed).
When it rains, it pours. %^&*
I've been using this set up for a while now, never had a premature breakage issue, even on some off-center shots. Until now...
Framed a shot and snapped two racquets at the top cross tie-off knot. Both were just ~20mins into string life.
Totally my fault but it still sucks. Two racquets, that's $30. :-?
Playing with a Head PT630.
Originally strung with syn gut, now I have Wilson / CoFocus. Oh man, what a difference. Much better pocketing, better power, more spin. Felt so nice!
Gut 52/CoF 48. I think the syn gut was strung at 50.
Wow. You're stringing your gut mains higher than your syngut tension? Next time try dropping each 3-5 lbs. Your poly crosses will still ensure a stiff stringbed, and the looser tension will allow your mains to deflect and snap back more.
I am too:
Pacific Classic 16g mains: 55lbs
MSV Co-Focus crosses: 51lbs
it's funny, I demoed Prince and Wilson guts and kept coming back to Pacific Classic because it had this great combo of feel with crispness. But now that I've switched to the Volkl V1 Pro, I'm thinking that the slightly mushier feel of the Wilson and Prince guts might be a better fit in this stick. Might have to play with that.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried looser? I find that with this setup, it's probably better to find how looser you can go rather than the other way around.
I did, for me it's not about what I can or can't control, I'll use my arm and technique for that. For me, it's about crispness/softness.
And I found at lower tension it's just not as crisp as I'd like.
I'm even thinking about increasing my tension by 2lbs on the mains and crosses.
Snapped a 3rd racquet again at the top cross tie-off knot
Alright, now I'm starting to question the quality of the latest batch of Pacific Classic. And by the "latest batch", I meant the batch that came after the long drought earlier this year.
This 3rd racquet snapped at the same location, the top cross tie-off knot. I'm not avoiding blame here, because I did hit it off-center. However, this time I was just tapping a ball back in play for my partner to volley (we were just warming up). Even he was surprised that I snapped a string with the mere tap. :shock:
Seriously, I tapped it back in. I put nothing into the shot and it just floated, and the mains snapped.
I just find it odd that I snapped 3 strings all in the same exact spot. I'm not avoiding blame here, but the streak is making me wonder the quality of the latest batch of Pacific Classic 16g.
All of these strings popped with less than 1hour of playing time. And all knots were hand-pulled.
Maybe next time I'll go down to 49/47. But for right now, it's playing pretty well.
Here's three things I haven't had happen before:
1. One of the gut mains start unravelling right at the grommet
2. A stringjob snap, in the middle of a point, with the CoF crosses breaking
3. . . . in two places
The main started unravelling back in late May/early June but it never went.
I never figured the crosses would go before the mains!
Couldn't agree more.
5th racquet snapped on me at the tie-off knot; new theory
So I managed to snap a fresh job in ~30mins, again off of a mishit. Mishit/frames aren't new to me (this one off of a return), but like I mentioned in earliest posts, I could frame balls out of the park and this setup will not snap prematurely on me. Until recent events that is.
So, I have a new theory: I'm starting to believe I need to replace my grommets as the current ones are becoming worn out.
I rotate between my 4 BLX90's. With this setup, I snap the gut every ~1.5weeks-2weeks (string savers included), and these grommets are approaching 2 years old.
What do you guys think?
main snapped sitting there a few hrs after restrung cross...
disclaimer: this job is global gut main..
Certainly could be. Might as well eliminate it as a possibility.
Yep, friction. The straw that broke the camel's back. Did you at least get a couple of dozen hours out of it
Wow that Rad is jacked! That is a lot of lead, you must be a beast!!
about 7/8 hrs, strung at 51/48, power increased too much thus restrung the cross.
real gut coming, prince natural 16, just strung 55/50 with co-focus 1.18; The coil memory is so strong that light prestretch with body weight doesn't work at all...
lol I am quite the contrary, sw about little less than 340 for this one with original radical grommet.
3 of those = very nice bag indeed!
BTW I am experimenting with full bed MSV Focus Hex 1.10 strung at 40# in one of my i Radical MP L4 frames.....results so far are flat out amazing, I remain dumbfounded by this.....
Might try giving that a whirl just for giggles if you like topspin.
Focus Hex 1.18 was the very first MSV string I tried. I used it as mains in a hybrid with Iso Professional Classic crosses.
At first I loved it, but after a while it lost some lustre. I didn't like how it would shave the felt off the ball over an hour or two, and I didn't like the quality of its spin. Don't get me wrong, the spin was incredible, but there was something about its quality that didn't really mesh with all court attacking tennis. Imo it suits more of a retriever's game. With gut-poly I find it's heavier spin that has more depth and explosiveness, if that makes any sense at all.
Ack, that's not good! It's the friction from the restring that killed the setup! If you want to restring your crosses, you may have to go up to one of the midrange priced guts that have a thicker and more robust coating.
Prince should be more than good enough though!!
Not finding that to be the case so far with the 1.10 hex strung at super low tension though agree loopy junk is available as well. For me the benefit is screaming forehands that were 6/8 " long are now dropping. I am able to hit with dramatically more pace.
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