Discussion in 'Strings' started by Smasher08, Aug 29, 2011.
Up to 39.5 hours now. I'll do a full review once I cross the 40 hour mark sometime next week.
Holy crap, that's some durability! Looking forward to the full review!
Iam going to try this setup on my POG OS. For oversize racket, is the tension @52/48lb seem reasonable? Or I should go higher, like 56/52lb? thanks.
You're going to have to try it out for yourself! AFAIK virtually all the posters here have been using mid and midplus sticks.
If you want the benefits of power and spin, IMO it's better to err on the side of looser. JK gave some decent advice, a few posts ago:
So give it a shot and let us know how it goes!
So I strung up some Pacific Classic mains for the first time yesterday. Co-Focus 1.23 crosses. 53/45 my usual tension. Sure enough the Pacific is softer than Klip. This set-up felt great right off the bat. Seems like there's a little more spin with Pacific too. I think I may be a convert.
Yes. Definitely. There is a lot of evidence now that poly that is over-strtetched (over 48 lbs) looses the qualities that most people want from the string and looses control, comfort, and spin potential. The terend in polys now is to go lower and lower with the tension. There are a lots of discussion threads on this on this site.
Totally agree. Now, try that set-up with the Co-Focus 1.18 and see how much more feel and spin you get. You can go a little higher with the tension of the MSV with the smaller gauge and not loose any comfort, as well. I like 48 lbs. for the poly crosses and 52 lbs for the Pacific mains, so far. Great feel, spin, comfort, and power. You get it all!
I am also getting 30-40 hours out of the set-up - or more.
Nice! Is yours on life support (ie string savers) like mine?
I'm thinking of having my next setup put in at 48 x 44. As much as I love the 17g mains, I've still got an unused pack of 16L Pac Classic.
glad you're back! I was wondering when you were going to update about your switch to Pacific from Klip. You were obviously enthused at the start but I was curious if that enthusiasm would hold over a week or two of playing. You know how it is sometimes with new strings... But it sounds like you are still a believer.
I probably will go back to Co-Focus 1.18 which I did use at one point. But TW has been back ordered for almost a month! I know I can get it from G&G but I already had a big order in with TW.
So you're up to near 40 hrs? How is the pacific holding up? I found that the 1.18 cross cut through the gut faster then the 1.23. Does it still feel crisp enough? That's the only thing I notice about co-focus as it gets older, it seems to perform about the same but loses the crisp feel.
Update - 43.25 hours (Set 1)
If you told me back in August that I'd still be playing with this stringjob in mid-March, my jaw would've dropped. And back when my playing in wet conditions caused notching to occur exponentially, if you'd told me that this stringjob would cross the 40 hour mark intact, I would've thought you were nuts.
But there you go.
If there's one thing this hybrid has proved to me, it's that 17g gut can endure -- albeit with considerable assistance from string savers. And it's certainly true that this stringjob just gets spinnier and spinnier as it ages. The spin is just wonderful. The power seems to have held up pretty well too.
The one area where there's been clear degradation is in the feel. The only thing I can compare it to is cheap gut. When I switched to my other set (which now has 26.5 hours logged on it) it felt so much plusher, substantial and richer. There was just way more feel and touch: hitting cute droppers on my middle-aged set was definitely kinda risky. But it could definitely be done. That said, the younger set just didn't have the spinniness thqt this one does.
Groundies, lobs, moonballs and kick serves were especially great to hit (I wasn't feeling too grooved on my slice serves so I didn't hit very many). That all said, I don't think you can compare the spin to Focus Hex: gut just doesn't have the same string to ball friction. But it definitely seems to me to be superior to Turbotwist: seems to have been that way for at least 20 hours now. I don't think the kind of spin this hybrid produces will be the favourite of defensive retrievers or possibly even counterpunchers: I think it favours aggressive all courters with modern-ish strokes. IMO the textured polys produce a bit too much spin which can detract from the penetration of your shots. Whereas the kind of spin off of this hybrid lets you hit attacking shots with bite.
I'd love for this set to last another 20 hours, but realistically that ain't gonna happen. Given all the string savers and fraying, it'll deserve some kind of medal if it even gets to 50. The other set, however, only has 2 additional string savers in it thus far, so it could very well end up crossing the half-century mark.
Just typing that blows my mind.
Interestingly, the dead poly and all the string savers don't seem to cause discomfort or pain. It's still an arm-friendly setup, which I find pretty impressive. And the fraying is kinda neat too: I've never played with "hairy" strings before.
As for string movement, there's definitely some. Not nearly as bad as syngut where you have to fix them after every point. Every half-set perhaps, unless you're really finicky about it. Set 2 on the other hand at 26.5 hours, has no string movement, no fraying whatsoever, and has only developed a couple of notches neding a string saver. The only knock against it, if you can call it that, is that it's not yet as spinny as Set 1.
All in all, at this point Set 1 gets the following grades:-
String movement: mild to moderate
Spin potential: excellent to fantastic
Feel: fair to good
Fraying: significant, widespread
Notching: significant, with string savers galore
Durability: thanks to the string savers, fantastic
Since I've made several additions to my review since last night, if anyone has any questions, please ask away.
You make comparison to turbotwist. Did you use that in a hyrbid? If so, what gauge and tensions?
How do you find control in your 40 hour+ racket?
IIRC it was TT 1.18 @ 50 lbs or so x Tourna Irradiated 1.20 @ 53-ish. The crosses frayed badly after 8 hours, and when I put in a few string savers it proceeded to blow out my shoulder when I served!
I had no idea I had a hitch in my service motion before then, but boy did I learn it fast. I then tried TT with Spiral Flex 1.30, but it didn't do me any good. I couldn't serve for 5 weeks until I put gut mains and poly crosses into my Prestige. After that, the turnaround and recovery was fairly quick. Lesson learned: my technique and shoulder just aren't meant for poly mains. (Interestingly, the 43 hour old dead copoly crosses mixed with 30 or so string savers in this hybrid haven't caused any arm issues whatsoever -- full credit to the gut I guess.)
As for how the TT hybrids played, I thought they were comparable to multis in terms of spin generation, with less feel.
As for control in this Pac x CoF hybrid, it's more or less excellent. The spin generation more than makes up for the looseness of the mains imo.
I have been keeping up with this thread and have been using a combo of Pacific Classic 16L/MSV CoFocus 1.23 at 52/48 in one of my Prince EXO3 Tour 16*18 and i am really impressed!! I now have over 15+ hours on the setup (80% 4.5 dubs) and have added about 8 string savers, but the setup looks to still have a ton of life left in it! There is some decent fraying in a few areas, but little notching and string movement is minimal if non-existent. Spin and feel with controllable power. I have been battling some GE going back to August 2010, but this setup is super arm friendly and i have had zero issues. Actually plays softer/plusher than my backup frame with full 17g Kirschbaum Touch Multifiber at 56#.
I actually had picked up 4 1/2 set packs of Pacific Classic 16L from TW several months ago before the price jump, so i am taking another EXO in today to string up Pacific Classic x CoFocus 1.18 to see how it performs compared to the CoFocus 1.23mm cross. From reading Big Kahuna and Smasher's comments, seems like the 1.18mm does even a better job!!
Question I have is should I bump the tension up a bit for the thinner cross and also the temps around here are getting a little warmer. Was thinking of going up from 52/48 to 54/50 or should i just leave all the same as is? Thanks
I'd say it depends on durability. Bump it up a pound each for the gauge and one or two additional pounds if you think it will last into a big temp. difference.
I've heard that as a general rule you should only change one variable at a time. After a couple of years of testing various strings, I think it's pretty wise. I'd strongly suggest keeping your tensions the same so that you'll know precisely what the gauge change affects.
When I switched gauges in this hybrid from 1.30 x 1.23 to the current one, I kept the tensions the same for that very reason. I found that the thinner gauged setup was spinnier, but I really didn't notice any difference in power. I'm pretty sure you'll find that it plays a bit spinnier, but it'll be interesting to hear back from you!
(Almost forgot: the other argument against bumping up tension is that it will decrease the spin)
Yeah, come to think of it, that's a good point. I think the idea, though, was to change the tension just enough to compensate for the other variables changing (weather, &c.).
You made a very fair point too. There seems to be a couple of schools of thought around these type of threads regarding how poly plays in the 40s vs in the 50s (lbs that is), as well as tightening strings for significantly hotter conditions.
Which of course makes us guinea pigs.
Agree with ya'll here and am going to keep the same. My local's Babolat Star 4 machine strings/pulls so tight anyway. Thanks for the input and awesome thread and info.
Smasher--still can't believe you have 40+ hours on a setup--that is insane!!!!!!!
I too am in awe of that durability. Smasher08, I might have missed it somewhere, but what's your playing style like?
Aggressive all court 5.0. I suspect I play a bit flatter than I think, which might explain why the spinniness of a setup is really important to me.
And in all honesty, considering that the strings got wet around the 13-15 hour mark and began notching exponentially at that point, I reckon that the last 25 hours of this stringjob are entirely due to the string savers.
Good point; I think string savers may be underrated. You put those in just wherever it was needed, right?
You've been using Pacific Classic 1.25 (1.24?), but is there any chance you'll try out the 1.30 gauge? Or any other guts? I can't remember if you have already.
I too play more of a flatter game so the extra bite/spin is a welcome help to add some margin/control with no loss of power! Nasty
When I tried this setup (but with 1.23 CoF), I only noticed the spin making up for control/depth issues on one or two outings. And I had to really concentrate on the spin, but then it started to feel quite nice. It didn't really just "donate" spin when I went flatter.
I tried it at 54/50 CP, I believe.
Yep, when a notch gets more than a third through a main, in goes the SS.
I started out on 1.30 x 1.23 -- thread located here. Didn't like the fact that it took about 20 hours to develop the kind of spinniness I get after 6-8 hours of using the thinner gauged stringjob. It's probably due to the fact that my stick is 89 sq" with an 18x20 string patern.
As for other guts, I'm tempted to try 17g VS Team, but I'm just not a fan of paying almost 50% more per set. Maybe one day when I'm sponsored
Right, I knew you'd tried that setup, I was just wondering if you'd thought about 1.30 gut/1.18 CoF. Haha, for even more durability maybe?
Right now I'm trying out Pacific full bed and like it, but I'm thinking about Klip b/c of the price jump, and I have some more Performaxx on the way.
Lol well I've still got the remaining half set sitting qround in a zip-lock bag. Been trying to figure out an excuse for using it!
Well, that could be an excuse. It'd be interesting to see how the setups compare when just changing the gut diameter.
My problem with putting string savers in is this. I'm in the middle of a game and I notice that a string intersection looks suspect. This game will of course go to multiple deuces and then the string breaks before the changeover.
I've had that same issue. I'll be like, "This string is fraying; it's going to break if I don't do something." And then it snaps on the next shot or two.
Hi Mike, welcome to the thread. I used to read yours religiously when I was looking for multi crosses to go with the poly mains I was experimenting with!
I try to scan all string intersections both before and after playing. And once notching gets past 1/3, in goes the SS.
So far I haven't been able to catch it in time.
Update: played 4.75 hours yesterday . . . meaning it's up to 48 hours so far and it's still alive!!!
Alive is one thing, but beyond the novelty of this experiment, would you really be satisfied with how it feels at this point? Do you not notice the surely dead poly?
The stringjob feels like cheap gut at this point, but its spinniness more than makes up for it.
I like the scientific approach.
In theory, the greater the area of contact between the mains and the crosses, the greater the amount of friction and the less spin.
In practice, it's possible that there might be small differences in how a setup plays depending on whether you use thicker mains or thicker crosses. When I used the 1.30 x 1.23 setup, it actually didn't notch even after 38 or 39 hours. The mains did wear down around where they met the crosses, but it was like they had been subtly and smoothly shaved down a little. Maybe a 1/4 reduction in thickness from originally.
So going to thicker mains and keeping 1.18 crosses, I'd expect less spin,the same amount of notching, and more durability because of the increase in thickness. Keeping 1.25 mains and going to 1.23 crosses, I'd expect less spin, less notching, more durability, and also less life support from string savers.
Lol I'm glad you called it "scientific" and not "OCD" or "anal retentive"!
Never use string savers. I always thought they would change the feel of the string ed.
I do hit flatter than many players though, so most of my string seem to last fairly well.
I agree with everything you state above. MyPacific Classic 17 /MSV CoFocus 1.18 at 52/48 in my Prince EXO3 Tour 16x18 seems to play better and better each time out. The smaller gauge gives me a bit more feel and spin and is super comfortable. I see no reason to go to the thicker gauge version of these strings when you can get 30-50 hours out of the thinner sets and improve performance. I am close to the "magic" 12 hour mark that Smasher08 spoke of and the spin is great - the pocketing awesome!
With my previous set-up - and Klip Tour in the mains - this was definitely the case. I would drop the tension a couple pounds in the winter and bring it back up in the spring when the balls were a little softer.
When you look at these GUT Stringforum test results, it sure makes a compelling case for the PACIFIC gut as the best Price to Performance rated natural gut on the market.
It is rated very highly in both overall PERFRORMANCE and PRICE /PERFORMANCE categories (blowing away VS gut in the later).
BOW Brand and GAUCHO are nearly impossible to find now as BOW is out of the tennis string business (at least for now).
• Top rated Natural Gut on Stringform for OVERALL performance (2012):
1) Babolat VS Power 17
2) Bow Brand Championship Natural Gut 16
3) Klip Armour Pro 17
4) Babolat VS Touch 16
5) Babolat VS Team 17
6) Pacific Classic Gut 16
7) Pacific Classic Gut 17
8- Bow Brand Professional Natural Gut 16
9) Wilson Natural 16
10) Babolat VS Power 16
• Top rated Natural Gut on Stringforum based on play test results for PRICE / PERFORMANCE RATIO (the best performance for the lowest cost 2012):
1) Gaucho Natural Gut 16
2) Bow Brand Championship Natural Gut 16
3) Bow Brand Professional Natural Gut 16
4) Pacific Classic Gut 16
5) Pacific Classic Gut 17
6) Babolat VS Power 17
7) Klip Armour Pro 17
8- Babolat VS Touch 16
9) Babolat VS Power 16
10) Wilson Natural 16
For the money, PACIFIC seems to be hard to beat.
Pacific Classic 16L x CoFocus 1.23 vs 1.18 crosses
Played 3 sets of 4.5 singles last night and was able to compare the 16hr 1.23CoFocus cross with the freshly strung 1.18 CoFocus cross. BOTH are strung in matched Prince EXO 16x18 at 52/48 with Pacific Classic 16L mains(to keeps things consistent). The 1.18 definitely felt crisper and more control, but did not have the same amount of pop, bite and nastiness as the "settled" in 1.23 cross setup. Don't get me wrong, the 1.18 was very very nice and had great spin, control and feel--but the dwell time and ball pocketing on the other frame was just better.
I recall from my first initial hit of Classic/1.23 CoFocus did not "wow" me as much as i was anticipated. But I had put about 3-5hrs on there is really came togeteher in all aspects. Great setup and affordable as well when you figure my normal full multi setup (Kirsch Touch Multi) is $14.00 and gives me about 12hours till breakage and the Classic/CoFocus is only around $18ish or so BUT lasts or appears it will last 3+x longer wtih nice and improving playabilty. CoFocus has to be the best "affordable" smooth cross for gut mains--gives you several gauges and tons of colors to choose from as well. Thanks
Thanks KCraig, been wondering if i should try the 1.23. Let us know if you change your mind once your 1.18 settles in.
About the only reason I can think of is if someone plays on clay. And even then I'd suggest trying 16L before 16.
Speaking of 30-50 hours, after this morning I'm at 49.5.
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