Pacific X Force Pro No 1 "252" Review

[joohan]

Needless to say, the feel is definitely there. I don't have the 252 leaded up to match the specs of my old black/red, but I have no doubt the platform is there to do that. my black/red is the 330g heavier version that was released and hits a very, very heavy ball, but I'm not really cut out to swing that frame anymore for extended periods, so I won't be taking the 252 back to those specs. I can tell you that the new grip system is really, really something as far as feel and the cosmetics, well... Top notch. If I end up leading one up to match I will let you know, but I really think you'd be missing out not trying it if you are a fan of that mold....

Thank you both, guys.

I switch between the VT98Pro and the Red/Silver P1, both 330g and been playing with them for about four years now so weight is not an issue for me (not with a 12HL balance unstrung anyway). I have also a 320g black/red P1 which is too light for me and its my fiancees go-to racquet. VT98Pro/P1 is one of the few frames stability wise I play with no lead whatsoever and in combination with its smooth feel its essentially my holy grail... If You have a chance to bring the 252 to the original weight/balance I'll be happy to read about it

Feel is what matters most, anyway, and I'm glad to learn its definitely there. A lot to look forward to. If You have the chance to bring #252 to the original weight/balance I'll be all over Your review

 

[tennis1111]

Played today with new xforce pro 97 and pro no1. Both frames are great.
Xforce pro is like better prestige ig. Great control with little added power compared to prestige. Great for serving.

Pro no1 is more forgiving and little easier to play with.
Btw Pro no1 has huge sweetspot. Plays pretty much like my Prince tour 100.

Nice job Pacific.

 

[SJSA]

Played today with new xforce pro 97 and pro no1. Both frames are great.
Xforce pro is like better prestige ig. Great control with little added power compared to prestige. Great for serving.

Pro no1 is more forgiving and little easier to play with.
Btw Pro no1 has huge sweetspot. Plays pretty much like my Prince tour 100.

Nice job Pacific.

I play with Prince Tour 100 as well.
Which Pacific do you prefer more compared to Tour 100?

 

[tennis1111]

Have to test little bit more and make final decision if I'm going to make a switch.
New Pro no1 plays simlliar to Prince Tour 100 18x20 to me in terms of power and spin. Control and feel are little bit better with Pro no1. Prince has little bit more forgivness and put away power.

 

[dgoran]

OK so I took ProNo1-252 on my business trip where I did not play competitive singles but we did a group drills (typical doubles attacking defense drills) and I also hit with the ball machine the day before so I got a pretty good feel for the racquet...I had Blade 18x20 as well with me to compare.

252 is unmodified and strung with Big Hitter Blue 17 Mains at 55 and Babolat Synth Gut 17 57. Only one tourna grip over stock 3/8 grip which I find perfect size for me and on par with Babolat 3/8 and wilson. If I remember correctly it came up to 328 grams 12 7/8 inch balance ready to play.

For those that never held one as I have posted before its like Aeropro and Volk pb mid 10 had a baby, (Although ProNo1 mold predates both of those ).
If you just look at the racquet head with white stripes glossy paint it will definitely remind one of Babolat drive series and you might assume its stiff and hollow. But when I hit with it my immediate thought was how come Babolat cannot make them like this...I know Babolat likes to make them stiffer but I am sure they don't want to make it hollow, maybe they can reach out to Pacific for some t

That unique plush flexible feel is what separates this racquet from most, maybe only volkl PB mid 10 had similar feel.

Groundies: Racquet felt good on groundstrokes if not a little underpowered but that was expected from soft relatively low sw (tw reported 315). Had better than average spin and I could do Nadal forehands or flat shots with it so the string bed grabbed well and had great control. I needed slight adjustment for both forehand and more so for my backhand but nothing drastic I could not quickly adjust.

Volley/Feel: This is where this racquet really performed. Feel is absolutely amazing and although I am not a doubles player I felt that I can direct volleys very well. Its pretty maneuverable for not being extremely head light, this is where light weight rackets help.

Serve: Did not hit any serves under pressure (competitive) just practice but it served just fine nothing impressive but nothing bad. Its hard for me to judge since I am a type of person that can serve much better under pressure (adrenaline) so I won't be able to really tell till I play competitive.

Overall: Im little bit on the fence here. Last few years I moved away from soft racquets (pt630) as I went lighter in weight but this racquet really is calling me to go back. I am however concerned about not having enough pop for light racquet that is also flexible. For example my Vcore XI98 at same specs (305r 315 sw) had lots more pop (it is way stiffer at 69). Blade on the other hand is similar in specs but had more pop with 330 sw but was less maneuverable.

One thing that confused me is twU measured specs:
Pacific X Force Pro No. 1 144 64 316
vs
Wilson Blade 98 (18x20 ) (2015) 140 64 322

2015 Blade although awesome and plush still felt stiffer of the two so I agree with OP that this racquet feels like 58-60. I guess we cannot go by measurements for certain racquets. I have experienced that before with 95d that felt stiffer than what TW measured and 315LTD that felt softer than what TW measured.

PS Sorry about spelling Safari is autocorrecting me all the time fighting my tennis jargon and I am definitely not a writter

 

[McLovin]

Nice review, dgoran, and I agree w/ pretty much everything you've said. Not sure how much you are into modifying, but I think a touch of lead up top (2g max) should give you that extra pop, especially on the serve, without sacrificing its maneuverability.

I added more, only because I'm used to a 320g frame (X Force Pro), but am slowly trying to adjust to a lighter frame. I'll likely remove a strip every year, or as I feel my shoulder start to fatigue.

Curious: Did you weigh it before stringing? Wondering if yours came in at the advertised 'Zero Tolerance' 305g.

 

[joohan]

Daring all former VT98Pro users to modify the 252 to the original VT/Pro1 specs (330g, 12HL unstrung). I will do it when I get the chance but it would be nice to know if this new classic really is in the same ballpark so to speak.

 

[dgoran]

Nice review, dgoran, and I agree w/ pretty much everything you've said. Not sure how much you are into modifying, but I think a touch of lead up top (2g max) should give you that extra pop, especially on the serve, without sacrificing its maneuverability.

I added more, only because I'm used to a 320g frame (X Force Pro), but am slowly trying to adjust to a lighter frame. I'll likely remove a strip every year, or as I feel my shoulder start to fatigue.

Curious: Did you weigh it before stringing? Wondering if yours came in at the advertised 'Zero Tolerance' 305g.

I did not weigh it since I had TW string it for me...I am curious as well...

You know I use to be very much into modding all my rackets but these days im playing stock pretty and went down from about 330 unstrung average to about 305. I dont know if its lack of time or interest but with all the options out there today I am convinced I can find a racket that is on a lighter side that still packs a punch...new 2015 blade and xi98 are best option for me so far but I was always curious about this mold ever since this guy:

 

[joohan]

I did not weigh it since I had TW string it for me...I am curious as well...

You know I use to be very much into modding all my rackets but these days im playing stock pretty and went down from about 330 unstrung average to about 305. I dont know if its lack of time or interest but with all the options out there today I am convinced I can find a racket that is on a lighter side that still packs a punch...new 2015 blade and xi98 are best option for me so far but I was always curious about this mold ever since this guy:

It's hard to find a sweeter racquet to hit with. Very hard.

 

[Automatix]

Q: Did anyone take of the grip and confirmed that there are no pallets?

 

[McLovin]

Q: Did anyone take of the grip and confirmed that there are no pallets?

Apparently ae1222 did, and sounds like there are pallets:

Extended mine and got it leaded up to 355g strung, hopefully will hit later today. Their handle system is interesting, I snapped a few pics when I tore it apart and will try to post later today as well.

However, he never followed up w/ the pics. Maybe he'll see this and reply?

If not, I now have a 2nd one that has a leather grip on it, but I will likely be putting the original back on, so I'll try to take pics as well.

 

[Automatix]

Thank you very much McLovin. I have no idea how could I've missed that post.

 

[Automatix]

I love my Pacific rep... always helpful and informative. If only others were like that.

So here's the scoop. First of there are no pallets per se but the handle can be changed.
The system consists of a:
- top centre collar;
- slide on tube;
- traditional buttcap.

Moreover supposedly there are plans to selli different grip shapes. Bravo Pacific, bravo!

 

[etrevino09]

I love my Pacific rep... always helpful and informative. If only others were like that.

So here's the scoop. First of there are no pallets per se but the handle can be changed.
The system consists of a:
- top centre collar;
- slide on tube;
- traditional buttcap.

Moreover supposedly there are plans to selli different grip shapes. Bravo Pacific, bravo!

Very Interesting !
Thaks for the inquiry. The system uses screws to fasten?????

 

[Automatix]

No screws.
The tube slides on and goes into the collar.

It sounds very interesting that's why I'm interested to see pictures which ae1222 declared to provide.

 

[downs_chris]

Great review! I enjoyed hitting with / modifying your frame...it's definitely one of those sticks you can just pick up and play a match with....although, i've probably said that about a lot of frames now...

 

[ae1222]

I will try to post my pics in the morning but it is correct it isn't a pallet system like you see on head sticks. It has a top cap that kind of looks like the cap on the head PT 10 and then the sleeve fits into it, there are no screws like the old Fischer pallets but instead there is a small slot near the top on one side that seems to have some type of locking mechanism in it, and then the butt cap covers the end.

I finally got to hit with it today and it is a good hit. Someone posted that it hit the same as the Pacific Lite frame, I would disagree with that, the lite was more flexible and had a metal pinging sound when you hit the ball. This frame has more of the muted Fischer feel, but I think this version is slightly softer than my VT Pro 98. I also don't think it plays as soft as some people say, I think the RA feels like 61-63 to me.

On the groundies it is a very stable frame (I have it leaded to 355g strung). The hardest thing I had to adjust to was the fact that the sweet spot is lower in the string bed compared to my 57As or a POG 100. But once I adjusted it hits great from the ground, my backhand was very solid, felt like I couldn't miss. Forehands were good when I connected, a decent amount of power and spin but I don't feel like I had the same bite and snap compared to my 57As. I think I need to adjust the lead and balance on this frame, but there were a few forehands I caught clean that were pretty wicked.

Volleys started off poorly as well, the location of the sweet spot was more bothersome at net for me. It did get better as I hit, volleys were solid but the feel and touch were not quite as good as the 57A.

Did hit a few serves and here was where this frame was a clear winner. Lots of easy power and maintained my control. My kick serve had more action on it plus it seemed a little more MPH.

I think there is lots of potential here, I just need to hit with it more. I need to adjust the grip a bit, the shape is a little too rectangular for my taste and it really affected my forehand. So hopefully will make a few adjustments to the frame and will get some hitting in this weekend and will report back.

 

[Don't Let It Bounce]

I switch between the VT98Pro and the Red/Silver P1, both 330g and been playing with them for about four years now so weight is not an issue for me (not with a 12HL balance unstrung anyway).

Joohan, how much difference is there between these two, or are they the same stick under the paint? I have a red/silver that I love, and I'm sometimes tempted to take that one further step back in time for the VT98. (If the answer is complex, no need to highjack the thread; I was planning to ask in the Fischer Faction thread anyway.)

More on topic, and for anyone to answer... Is this frame meant as the next version of the X-Force Pro or as a similar but (very) slightly different model in a separate marketing slot? (I.e., if the XFP is the IG Prestige Pro, is the 252 like a Graphene Prestige Pro or an IG Prestige MP?)

 

[dgoran]

Joohan, how much difference is there between these two, or are they the same stick under the paint? I have a red/silver that I love, and I'm sometimes tempted to take that one further step back in time for the VT98. (If the answer is complex, no need to highjack the thread; I was planning to ask in the Fischer Faction thread anyway.)

More on topic, and for anyone to answer... Is this frame meant as the next version of the X-Force Pro or as a similar but (very) slightly different model in a separate marketing slot? (I.e., if the XFP is the IG Prestige Pro, is the 252 like a Graphene Prestige Pro or an IG Prestige MP?)

I'm not Johan but I'll tell you my opinion anyways 252 in my opinion is exact same mold just with marketing bs decals slapped on top. Of course they added just enough of weight to entice modern tennis user since they knew of they used old specs no one would buy it...

 

[Automatix]

More on topic, and for anyone to answer... Is this frame meant as the next version of the X-Force Pro or as a similar but (very) slightly different model in a separate marketing slot?

AFAIK it's the latter.

 

[joohan]

Joohan, how much difference is there between these two, or are they the same stick under the paint? I have a red/silver that I love, and I'm sometimes tempted to take that one further step back in time for the VT98. (If the answer is complex, no need to highjack the thread; I was planning to ask in the Fischer Faction thread anyway.)

More on topic, and for anyone to answer... Is this frame meant as the next version of the X-Force Pro or as a similar but (very) slightly different model in a separate marketing slot? (I.e., if the XFP is the IG Prestige Pro, is the 252 like a Graphene Prestige Pro or an IG Prestige MP?)

Its not a complex question at all. I've been playing them for over four years and to me they feel/play the same.

Edit:

The 252 is a VT98Pro mold, confirmed by a Pacific rep as an answer to my direct question. Its not meant to be competing with the X-Force Pro. I would say its a "pro-stock"-esque revival of a legendary mold that has a tremendous marketing potential. At least thats my point of view...

 

[dgoran]

Its not a complex question at all. I've been playing them for over four years and to me they feel/play the same.

Edit:

The 252 is a VT98Pro mold, confirmed by a Pacific rep as an answer to my direct question. Its not meant to be competing with the X-Force Pro. I would say its a "pro-stock"-esque revival of a legendary mold that has a tremendous marketing potential. At least thats my point of view...

What are your exact specs vt98pro

 

[joohan]

What are your exact specs vt98pro

I can only give you specs written on the racquet as I don't have any machine to test it myself- 330g weight and 308mm balance(there is some +- as its not a "no tolerance" production). I have no reason to doubt those figures. Mine are all about 360g strung with a 17g string + leather grip + overgrip. SW according to my racquet history and experience is in low 320s.

Stiffness I have no idea because the ceramic layup plays with my senses...so to speak...most certainly over 60, maybe 63-64, I wouldn't want to mystificate you. It most certainly feels like "a cracker dipped in milk and honey".

Edit:

I looked up the M Speed Pro 98 SL specs and it has a 58 flex. I have also quite a few M Speeds around and the VT98 plays SIGNIFICANTLY stiffer (I'm not saying it is, just that it plays - maybe that's where the ceramic comes in). I can't, or rather don't like to play the M Speed stock, only with fair amount of lead at 3+9 which is not the case with the VT or even with a 320g Pro No.1: meaning the difference is not in the mass only.

 

[dgoran]

Ok finally hit some singles with this racquet with my regular hitting partner and I did not like it at all I must say beside plush softness I really struggled to hit backhand and serve with it. It was really hot and humid so I wondered if that was the issue so i took my blade out to compare and bam all strokes are back...

To be continued...

 

[dgoran]

Ok so I added 25 grams of lead starting from the very top of the pallet and winding it down relatively blindly trusting no tolerance figure printed of my racquet of 305 so my racquet now should be about 330 unstrung with 308 balance which is coincidentally the same as old vt98 no1...I'll remeasure once strings go dead and it's ready to be restrung but all indicators using twu calculators point that racquet is in fact 305 grams and that "no tolerance" is "no bs".

I also had my 252 measured on rdc and it has 63 flex strung

I think pacific kept their promise of making 252 unchanged minus marketing decals and lighter weight to make it usable for wider variety of players.

More importantly it's much different beast now comparing to stock weight. It's even more plush and gone is the twangy vibration when hit on very top of the string bed. I also had to adjust to hit lower as I have tendency to hit little higher on the string bed but once you do my one handed backhand came back and forehand is still there...

I am still adjusting to it so I still feel that I am working too hard with it in comparison to slightly stiffer and lighter modern frames (strike, vcore xi98 and blade 98) especially on serve and I usually live and die by my serve. Be it stock at 305 or now at 330 unstrung (so 352 strung with over grip) still has very unique bend in the hoop that sometimes makes me feel I have to work harder on serve. Perhaps gut hybrid or full bed would make this issue go away by making it more explosive but I don't have gut handy to try it yet...

New blade 98 is still really winning this 4-5 sub 305 frame race I am currently experimenting with purely on performance and perhaps I am most use to it by now but for someone that's looking for vt98 no1 I really think should be a no brainer to get this "new" 252 frame...

 

[joohan]

Ok so I added 25 grams of lead starting from the very top of the pallet and winding it down relatively blindly trusting no tolerance figure printed of my racquet of 305 so my racquet now should be about 330 unstrung with 308 balance which is coincidentally the same as old vt98 no1...I'll remeasure once strings go dead and it's ready to be restrung but all indicators using twu calculators point that racquet is in fact 305 grams and that "no tolerance" is "no bs".

I also had my 252 measured on rdc and it has 63 flex strung

I think pacific kept their promise of making 252 unchanged minus marketing decals and lighter weight to make it usable for wider variety of players.

More importantly it's much different beast now comparing to stock weight. It's even more plush and gone is the twangy vibration when hit on very top of the string bed. I also had to adjust to hit lower as I have tendency to hit little higher on the string bed but once you do my one handed backhand came back and forehand is still there...

I am still adjusting to it so I still feel that I am working too hard with it in comparison to slightly stiffer and lighter modern frames (strike, vcore xi98 and blade 98) especially on serve and I usually live and die by my serve. Be it stock at 305 or now at 330 unstrung (so 352 strung with over grip) still has very unique bend in the hoop that sometimes makes me feel I have to work harder on serve. Perhaps gut hybrid or full bed would make this issue go away by making it more explosive but I don't have gut handy to try it yet...

New blade 98 is still really winning this 4-5 sub 305 frame race I am currently experimenting with purely on performance and perhaps I am most use to it by now but for someone that's looking for vt98 no1 I really think should be a no brainer to get this "new" 252 frame...

Thanks for your effort. Welcome to the VT98Pro matrix...

 

[Automatix]

For those who string full poly. What tensions do you use and do you drop the tension on the crosses?

 

[McLovin]

Normally I'm a gut/poly guy, but I strung my 2nd frame w/ Black Code 4S at 48lbs w/ a 10% prestretch. Still plush, although the gut/poly is a bit crisper, which I like.

Will use the full poly setup for clay.

 

[langdon0555]

Curious...

So I have an old Pro #1 (the red/black/white) one which is the same mold as this one. Although 320 grams unstrung. How does this one compare to the x force pro? I've never hit with the x force pro. I do like a heavier racquet. I usually mod my racquets to 12.5 ounces, around 8-10 points headlight, with a SW of 330-335. Can anybody compare the 2?

Cheers

 

[Automatix]

Normally I'm a gut/poly guy, but I strung my 2nd frame w/ Black Code 4S at 48lbs w/ a 10% prestretch. Still plush, although the gut/poly is a bit crisper, which I like.

Will use the full poly setup for clay.

Thx for the feedback.

 

[Backhanded Compliment]

For those who string full poly. What tensions do you use and do you drop the tension on the crosses?

Pacific users who use the Fischer models seem to often like full poly in the 40's they really work well with those setups for some reason.

 

[joohan]

Pacific users who use the Fischer models seem to often like full poly in the 40's they really work well with those setups for some reason.

In M Speed Pros yes but they are way softer. Full poly in #252 mold may feel stiff to someone...I mean I like it but it most certainly isn't for everyone. I have Forten Sweet in one of my VTPros and it feels exceptional.

 

[Automatix]

No screws.
The tube slides on and goes into the collar.

It sounds very interesting that's why I'm interested to see pictures which ae1222 declared to provide.

Just to elaborate on this...

As I wrote earlier the handle system consist of a collar, a tube and classic buttcap.
It looks and feels much better than Head pallets. It seems more robust than other systems I've encountered.
I don't know what is the small rectangular indent (last photo) for though.

 

[Rabbit]

McLovin, great review and thread (as always). I have hit with the X Tour Pro and agree with you. It's a fine hitting frame. It's right there with the C10 in terms of great feel IMO.

 

[808]

Just to elaborate on this...

As I wrote earlier the handle system consist of a collar, a tube and classic buttcap.
It looks and feels much better than Head pallets. It seems more robust than other systems I've encountered.
I don't know what is the small rectangular indent (last photo) for though.

My best guess is that it's a kind of locking mechanism for the collar to snap into (?). I noticed it too, but was kinda in a hurry when I re-wrapped the grip on my X Tour Pro 97 and didn't investigate any further. Nice pics!

 

[The_Racketeer]

Does TW have their reviews mixed up? I feel like the "252" would be the better racquet, and it seems like this thread agrees, yet TW gave the 97 a much more favorable review.

 

[McLovin]

It depends...stock I might give the edge to the X Tour Pro. But add some weight to the '252', and it quickly becomes the more versatile frame IMO.

 

[dgoran]

Finally restrung my 252 and had a chance to measure it and sure enough 305 gr

 

[The_Racketeer]

Both racquet reviews talk about small sweepspots. Have you noticed this and an unforgiving stringbed on off-center hits?

 

[McLovin]

Not on the Pro No 1, but then again, I've added lead at 3, 9 & 12, and I believe that is supposed to raise it up in the hitting zone.

X Tour Pro...yes, it was a small sweet spot. But I believe that frame also begs for full gut, and you'd probably find a more forgiving stringbed w/ that setup.

 

[dgoran]

I would not call this unforgiving in the same way I would not call blade unforgiving. For example, placed non top of blade head was little bit wider so plenty of room and string bed felt comfy. What this racquet have different than others is that it's sweet spot is lower on the string bed so if you have tendency to hit in the upper part it will feel like the sweet spot is small since you would have missed the sweet spot. I wonder if that's what they felt and misinterpreted that fact with small sweet spot. It's also flexy and on a lower end of SW so very low powered. Gut or lower tension would shine in this one to compensate.

 

[dgoran]

I

​

Interesting that either your or mine is of off by 1.5 grams as I measured without having rubber on the grip and you measured with

 

[maxpotapov]

Practiced some shots with my Black Granite (full syn gut) and must admit, this 252 mold is really a good thing if you know what you're doing
I can see myself switching to it, given such a great availability/upgrade path. Also, it's good enough for me not to worry about Yonex Ai/DR 98 as a better alternative

 

[joohan]

Practiced some shots with my Black Granite (full syn gut) and must admit, this 252 mold is really a good thing if you know what you're doing
I can see myself switching to it, given such a great availability/upgrade path. Also, it's good enough for me not to worry about Yonex Ai/DR 98 as a better alternative

True that. I've started a thread called "game changing racquets" just to find out what racquets are actually worth checking out because based on cursory reading/hitting, there are very few frames that step out of the shadow of the 252 (in my case VT98Pro).

 

[langdon0555]

The black granite was/is the same as the x force pro mold...not the 252 mold.

 

[maxpotapov]

The black granite was/is the same as the x force pro mold...not the 252 mold.

Really? What would be the difference between 252 and X Force Pro? And what about M.Speed Pro No. 1 98?
Most important thing for me is interchangeability of grommets.

 

[joohan]

Really? What would be the difference between 252 and X Force Pro? And what about M.Speed Pro No. 1 98?
Most important thing for me is interchangeability of grommets.

From what I know, all the Fischer/Pacific racquets with throat(or better, that "X" at the bottom of the throat) looking like this are, well, NOT the "252" mold - as is the case of the X Force Pro, M Pro no.1 and M Speeds:

and all the racquets with that area looking like this:

should be of the "252" mold - VT98Pros, Pro no.1 Red/Silvers are + X Force Pro 18x20, X Force Lite and, logically, the "252" Pro no.1.

I have a lot of M Speeds as well as "252" molds and the "252"s play crisper and stiffer than the M Speed mold which contains fiberglass. Can't comment on any Pacific iteration as I have never played one.

Can't comment on grommets either but I'm positive I've come across this topic here on TT forums and according to some contributors they should fit. Those threads should not be that hard to find.

 

[McLovin]

Most important thing for me is interchangeability of grommets.

Can't comment on grommets either but I'm positive I've come across this topic here on TT forums and according to some contributors they should fit. Those threads should not be that hard to find.

Grommets are the same across the 16x20 molds. I know, I've changed them on both types using the same grommets.

The lineage of the mold changed ~ 2004 with the introduction of the Pro No 1 FT:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040618015103/http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/FischerRacquets.html​

Comparing the FT and the non-FT frames, you'll notice the difference in the throat as @joohan pointed out, as well as the front profile being a tad thinner (not the beam width, but looking at the frame straight on).

 

[dgoran]

Well I love this frame now I'm thinking about switching full time...it took me a while (for my standards) to get going with it but it really really has great feel that makes you really try to do all kinds of touch shots

 

[dgoran]

One thing that I cannot gat away from is feeling that it's underpowered comparing to xi98 frame I am using "as my main frame" or as main frame as it gets for me...

This makes me feel that comes clay courts or doubles and I might regret using 252