Paging Jolly and S&V: I have so many questions!

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
You remember that video you guys posted of yourselves playing doubles? Don't laugh, but I was unaware that there was more than one point! I watched the one point and thought, "Boy, it would be fun to watch more of that."

Well, I just watched more of that. Here's the link, maybe:

And I have so many questions:

1. What level are you both, Jolly's wife, the other fellow? And who is the other fellow?

2. It felt like you two were stronger than your mixed opponents. Why did you partner up the way you did?

3. Jolly, I think I saw three overheads that you didn't put away and didn't appear to try to put away. No disrespect, man, but what's happening there? I was expecting you to put a crater in the court.

4. I saw a lot of missed returns from everyone (or, I think I did). Were the serves really hot, or is that just the norm?

5. Does Ms. Jolly get cheesed off when her husband rips her serve up the middle so hard she can't touch it? Did you buy her flowers later?

6. For both of you, what do you see as your strengths and weaknesses? Once you get this proficient, do you actually go out and work on things, or do you just play?

Anyway, it was delightful to watch you both. I very, very much appreciated how when one of you poached, the other one crossed immediately -- this does not happen in the 3.5 world I inhabit. There were so many cool things happening, but I think the take-away for me is this: You do not need to knock the cover off the ball on your approach volley (looking at you in particular, S&V -- your approach volleys are so smooth and silky). Well-placed and good-quality is sufficient to win a lot of points.
 
You remember that video you guys posted of yourselves playing doubles? Don't laugh, but I was unaware that there was more than one point! I watched the one point and thought, "Boy, it would be fun to watch more of that."
Ha ha ha...oh wait, you said not to laugh.

Thank @mad dog1 for capturing the event; I think at the time he was rehabbing his shoulder so he volunteered to film.

Well, I just watched more of that.

And I have so many questions:
To see them all [6], do a search on YT for "tennis long island long beach dubs"

1. What level are you both, Jolly's wife, the other fellow? And who is the other fellow?
I'm mid-4.5, @J011yroger is 5.0, Mrs. Jolly is 5.0, and @Pickle9 is 4.5.

2. It felt like you two were stronger than your mixed opponents. Why did you partner up the way you did?
I didn't set the teams. I think it turned out that way because Mrs. Jolly and Pickle played 9.0 MXDs before Pickle got bumped up. I believe they did quite well at 9.0!

3. Jolly, I think I saw three overheads that you didn't put away and didn't appear to try to put away. No disrespect, man, but what's happening there? I was expecting you to put a crater in the court.
Check out the last point of the set; I think he put 2 craters in the court but Pickle defended.

4. I saw a lot of missed returns from everyone (or, I think I did). Were the serves really hot, or is that just the norm?
For me that's normal; I can't speak for the others. The return is the weakest [and by that I mean "least consistent"] part of my game. And that gets multiplied when there's an active net person poaching and fake poaching.

5. Does Ms. Jolly get cheesed off when her husband rips her serve up the middle so hard she can't touch it? Did you buy her flowers later?

6. For both of you, what do you see as your strengths and weaknesses?
Strengths:
- Net game
- Mobility
- Adaptability
- Situational awareness
- Defensive tenacity

Weaknesses:
- Return consistency and confidence
- 1st serve placement and %
- Not taking that last step or two before volleying
- Low % shot selection at times

Once you get this proficient, do you actually go out and work on things, or do you just play?
Pre-CV I was working solo on my serve and BH TS; I rarely saw anyone else doing solo practice.

During CV, I've lost some of the drive to practice, maybe because I've been easing my way back into playing. But thanks for reminding me that I need to resume practice.

Anyway, it was delightful to watch you both.
Thanks; it was a blast to play. I was admittedly a bit nervous, playing with 3 people I had never met before but who all knew each other AND with the camera rolling. I think I only hit one really boneheaded shot [a lame service return lob that Pickle hardly had to move to smash; sorry J0lly!]; plus the usual semi-boneheaded ones but I make no apology for those.

I very, very much appreciated how when one of you poached, the other one crossed immediately -- this does not happen in the 3.5 world I inhabit.
I observed the same thing, actually, because we'd never played together before. But if you think about it, that's just high % strategy, which should be understood by all doubles players regardless of whether they've played together before.

I think it's a two-layer problem: the understanding and the execution. At the lower levels, you don't necessarily need this understanding to hold one's own; at the higher levels, you will get thumped.

But then it has to be translated into action. Not only that, it has to be done in tandem with a partner. It does little good for me to move to the "right" place if my partner doesn't do his part. Then I end up looking like an idiot.

Your posts repeatedly demonstrate that you have a sound understanding of the principles of doubles. I'd be happy to play 8.0 MXDs with you.

There were so many cool things happening, but I think the take-away for me is this: You do not need to knock the cover off the ball on your approach volley (looking at you in particular, S&V -- your approach volleys are so smooth and silky). Well-placed and good-quality is sufficient to win a lot of points.
Thanks. I'm not a "knock the cover off of the ball" type anyway, which is one reason doubles appeals to me as I can use my touch and court sense to try to win the point; I complement someone who hits big [and vice versa].

Go back and count how many points were won with winners vs simply being the recipient of an error. The errors almost always win and by a large margin.

As a bonus, here's video Mrs. J0lly took of Pickle and I playing singles:

 

Cashman

Hall of Fame
You guys play very well together for a pair that had never met before. I would not have guessed it was your first time.

Black looks like he is perhaps taking it a bit easy on occasion. That slice lob at 2:58 was suspiciously generous.
 
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J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
You remember that video you guys posted of yourselves playing doubles? Don't laugh, but I was unaware that there was more than one point! I watched the one point and thought, "Boy, it would be fun to watch more of that."

Well, I just watched more of that. Here's the link, maybe:

And I have so many questions:

1. What level are you both, Jolly's wife, the other fellow? And who is the other fellow?

2. It felt like you two were stronger than your mixed opponents. Why did you partner up the way you did?

3. Jolly, I think I saw three overheads that you didn't put away and didn't appear to try to put away. No disrespect, man, but what's happening there? I was expecting you to put a crater in the court.

4. I saw a lot of missed returns from everyone (or, I think I did). Were the serves really hot, or is that just the norm?

5. Does Ms. Jolly get cheesed off when her husband rips her serve up the middle so hard she can't touch it? Did you buy her flowers later?

6. For both of you, what do you see as your strengths and weaknesses? Once you get this proficient, do you actually go out and work on things, or do you just play?

Anyway, it was delightful to watch you both. I very, very much appreciated how when one of you poached, the other one crossed immediately -- this does not happen in the 3.5 world I inhabit. There were so many cool things happening, but I think the take-away for me is this: You do not need to knock the cover off the ball on your approach volley (looking at you in particular, S&V -- your approach volleys are so smooth and silky). Well-placed and good-quality is sufficient to win a lot of points.
1. I am a 5.0, Mrs. J is a 5.0, @Pickle9 and @S&V-not_dead_yet are both 4.5s.

2. Neither of them like playing with me on account of my poor attitude so they stuck the new guy with me.

3. If I recall, there was a bit of a sun glare and swirling wind situation. The first one was coming in a little too straight to hit an overhead, the others I think I didn't have my feet set well enough to meet the ball in front of me. In any of those situations you are better off playing a high volley back deep and continuing the point with the advantage than take a risk on ending the point early.

4. I can't imagine I missed many returns. I can't speak for the others, but conditions as stated were not truly the best and we were all trying to be active at the net which contributes too.

5. Anybody who hits lackluster serves to my forehand deserves what they get, she has known me for 16 years, most people figure it out in the warm-up. She drank my peppermint latte, but I don't think it was a retaliatory act.

6. I have a good serve and a great forehand, my backhand and volleys are adequate; even though my speed is ok, my footwork is not as disciplined and precise as it should be for my level. I practice every single day, and I get as much coaching as I can from the best coaches I can find, trying to close the gap to 5.5.

Thanks, I think our initial conversation once teams were decide was,

Jolly: I just play normal doubles. Let's talk when we need to and you be aggressive when you can at net.

S&V: Ok, me too, sounds good.

J
 
You guys play very well together for a pair that had never met before. I would not have guessed it was your first time.
I think it boils down to two people being on roughly the same page when it comes to court positioning: I see my partner move from point A to point B, therefore I have to move from point X to point Y. I don't remember ever accidentally ending up on the same side of the court but then again, we weren't signalling either.

Black looks like he is perhaps taking it a bit easy on occasion. That slice lob at 2:58 was suspiciously generous.
Yeah, you found my self-identified boneheaded shot. :(

@Cindysphinx - I should clarify that when I was talking about missed returns, I was talking about mine.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
@S&V, yeah, I gathered you were talking about yourself there!

One more question, S&V: You seemed to come to net relentlessly. Do you ever stay back? What will make you stay back? What happens when you stay back

Thanks for replying, you two. I'll tell you something you will likely find highly amusing.

If I knew nothing about the four players, I would think I would have no trouble returning the serves of three of you. I don't know why, but video doesn't capture how heavy and fast a ball is struck. I have been on the court with 4.5 guys, and I loathe trying to return their serves -- it is simply not possible for someone of my level to get them back using anything other than luck.

That video must be lying to me.
 

dak95_00

Hall of Fame
@S&V, yeah, I gathered you were talking about yourself there!

One more question, S&V: You seemed to come to net relentlessly. Do you ever stay back? What will make you stay back? What happens when you stay back

Thanks for replying, you two. I'll tell you something you will likely find highly amusing.

If I knew nothing about the four players, I would think I would have no trouble returning the serves of three of you. I don't know why, but video doesn't capture how heavy and fast a ball is struck. I have been on the court with 4.5 guys, and I loathe trying to return their serves -- it is simply not possible for someone of my level to get them back using anything other than luck.

That video must be lying to me.
Video makes things look slower than they are. That’s why there are so many people who’ll say a solid 4.5 player couldn’t be better than 3.5, etc. I’d bet there are many people on this board who believe they’re good enough to get a game off of Federer on his worst day and their best. They would also be WRONG!
 
@S&V, yeah, I gathered you were talking about yourself there!

One more question, S&V: You seemed to come to net relentlessly.
Was it that obvious?

Do you ever stay back?
Not if I can help it. Even in singles I try to get to the net.

What will make you stay back?
When the opposing player keeps punishing my serves/approaches and it's clear that coming to the net won't work.

I played 9.0 MXDs against a 20-something ex-D1 and he absolutely destroyed my serve so I reluctantly stayed back. That allowed us to lose more slowly.

I also stay back if my volleys or footwork just aren't clicking that day.

What happens when you stay back
I get antsy. It's like that old commercial about how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? Lick, lick, crunch.

I know where my strength is and it ain't on the BL.

Thanks for replying, you two. I'll tell you something you will likely find highly amusing.

If I knew nothing about the four players, I would think I would have no trouble returning the serves of three of you. I don't know why, but video doesn't capture how heavy and fast a ball is struck. I have been on the court with 4.5 guys, and I loathe trying to return their serves -- it is simply not possible for someone of my level to get them back using anything other than luck.

That video must be lying to me.
My serve is not very fast to begin with and the camera doesn't help. I'm trying to put more spin on the ball but at 4.5, it doesn't bother many returners. Different story at 8.0 MXDs.

And yeah, you could handle @J011yroger's serve no problem; piece of cake.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Is Jolly the guy in green? His serve has a hitch in it. It is not a smooth motion.

Yeah but that trophy position is right out of a Federer GIF collection. Everything after is pure violence on the ball. That and I'd love to be his height.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I was playing with a TT poster yesterday and wondering whether Jollovic can still hit the back fence in one bounce on the serve?
 
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