Pain at Both 5th Metatarsals?

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
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UPDATE - Diagnosed as a corn on the end of the 5th Metatarsal - see post #12.


The 5th Metatarsal is the long bone on the outside of the foot, it goes to the little toe. There are 5th M injuries, some of which are caused by trauma. My pains are near the Cuboids. Cuboid injury can cause pain felt at the 5th Metatarsal. I read one warning that Cuboid injury can become a cartilage injury, so I'm concerned about playing with this foot pain. There are some complicating factors.

I started playing tennis in May after 2 years off from Covid. Started using compression stockings, all day use. I take walks for 35-40 minutes on hills and have little 5th M pain. A few weeks ago, I had been having some pain after tennis at both 5th Metatarsals. I missed a few weeks with possible hip strain and I'm starting back again. The 5th M pain after tennis was there again this past Monday.

There are several complicating factors:
1) My 5th Metatarsal bony knobs, next to Cuboids, look a bit prominent.
2) Both Metatarsals have pain after tennis.
3) Compression Stockings. I now wear compression stockings all day due to venous insufficiency. Toeless. 20-30 mm pressure. I changed to toeless because the ones with toes caused pain to the bones of my toes when sitting. I think the stocking foot was too short for my size 14s. On the other hand, the toeless stockings may slip away from the toes toward the middle of the foot still covering the bony knob of the 5th M by 1 1/4". Do the compression stockings themselves cause pain at the Cuboid/5th M during court running?
4) Sock to protect compression stockings. This special sock can't add much more compression.
4) Shoes. I lost my tennis shoes somehow. Have been trying to find new flexible shoes with inserts that fit correctly. Current shoes, New Balance Minimus Shoes with Spenco inserts. When playing, does my 5th M ever contact the court directly?
5) Arch Support Insert. The shoe insert has some arch support, that tilts down toward the outside of my foot. Does my foot slide to the outside and cause court contact of the 5th M?

I'm getting a referral to a Podiatrist.

If anyone has dealt with pain near the 5th Metatarsal, please post your experience.
 
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ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Metatarsals can be a drag. Three weeks ago my wife had surgery at Hosp. for Special Surgery in NYC; bone spur on her metatarsal; they broke the bone, removed the spur, then screwed the whole thing back together again. They took off the cast two days ago but three more weeks in a boot, off the foot the entire time. We shall see. Guess who's making dinner this whole time.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
Metatarsals can be a drag. Three weeks ago my wife had surgery at Hosp. for Special Surgery in NYC; bone spur on her metatarsal; they broke the bone, removed the spur, then screwed the whole thing back together again. They took off the cast two days ago but three more weeks in a boot, off the foot the entire time. We shall see. Guess who's making dinner this whole time.

Why not get it delivered?
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Why not get it delivered?
Tried a local woman who delivers three days of dinners twice a week, they were not very good. No martyr, I ordered in Chinese tonight and had a grocery store package of yellow dal, over rice, last night
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Metatarsals can be a drag. Three weeks ago my wife had surgery at Hosp. for Special Surgery in NYC; bone spur on her metatarsal; they broke the bone, removed the spur, then screwed the whole thing back together again. They took off the cast two days ago but three more weeks in a boot, off the foot the entire time. We shall see. Guess who's making dinner this whole time.

Did her foot problem develop over time or was there trauma?
 

EggSalad

Hall of Fame
ShowImage.ashx


The 5th Metatarsal is the long bone on the outside of the foot, it goes to the little toe. There are 5th M injuries, some of which are caused by trauma. My pains are near the Cuboids. Cuboid injury can cause pain felt at the 5th Metatarsal. I read one warning that Cuboid injury can become a cartilage injury, so I'm concerned about playing with this foot pain. There are some complicating factors.

I started playing tennis in May after 2 years off from Covid. Started using compression stockings, all day use. I take walks for 35-40 minutes on hills and have little 5th M pain. A few weeks ago, I had been having some pain after tennis at both 5th Metatarsals. I missed a few weeks with possible hip strain and I'm starting back again. The 5th M pain after tennis was there again this past Monday.

There are several complicating factors:
1) My 5th Metatarsal bony knobs, next to Cuboids, look a bit prominent.
2) Both Metatarsals have pain after tennis.
3) Compression Stockings. I now wear compression stockings all day due to venous insufficiency. Toeless. 20-30 mm pressure. I changed to toeless because the ones with toes caused pain to the bones of my toes when sitting. I think the stocking foot was too short for my size 14s. On the other hand, the toeless stockings may slip away from the toes toward the middle of the foot still covering the bony knob of the 5th M by 1 1/4". Do the compression stockings themselves cause pain at the Cuboid/5th M during court running?
4) Sock to protect compression stockings. This special sock can't add much more compression.
4) Shoes. I lost my tennis shoes somehow. Have been trying to find new flexible shoes with inserts that fit correctly. Current shoes, New Balance Minimus Shoes with Spenco inserts. When playing, does my 5th M ever contact the court directly?
5) Arch Support Insert. The shoe insert has some arch support, that tilts down toward the outside of my foot. Does my foot slide to the outside and cause court contact of the 5th M?

I'm getting a referral to a Podiatrist.

If anyone has dealt with pain near the 5th Metatarsal, please post your experience.

If I was to guess, your shoes and lack of stability are causing the pain.

I’d look into ASICS Gel Resolution or Challenger or a similar stability type shoe from another brand.

You’re putting a lot of stress on the outside of your foot with tennis movement and need something that will help support/stabilize your foot with those movements.

For this to happen to both feet at the same time and for you to be playing in those shoes; it seems like the likely cause.
 

jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
Definitely don't play tennis in non tennis shoes. Definitely try a different insole. Those Spencos have a very large, very elevated, very stiff/hard arch. That might be encroaching your first metatarsal and irritating your cuboid. The fifth metatarsal is probably in pain from stopping with the outside of your foot. Compression stockings are for circulation, not healing of bones/cartilage/ligaments/muscles/tendons. Dunk your feet in a small tub of ice water. Run, don't walk to that podiatrist. You might have wide or extra wide feet. Try New Balance extra wide sizes.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Definitely don't play tennis in non tennis shoes. Definitely try a different insole. Those Spencos have a very large, very elevated, very stiff/hard arch. That might be encroaching your first metatarsal and irritating your cuboid. The fifth metatarsal is probably in pain from stopping with the outside of your foot. Compression stockings are for circulation, not healing of bones/cartilage/ligaments/muscles/tendons. Dunk your feet in a small tub of ice water. Run, don't walk to that podiatrist. You might have wide or extra wide feet. Try New Balance extra wide sizes.

Agree about the Spenco with high arch. I thought of cutting it down. I recently put a lower arch old Spenco in, but it is size 13.

My feet are D size 14s, but the protrusion of the 5th Metatarsal bony knob sticks out farther than normal on the side of my foot. The knob would take the force on the side of my foot. 5th Ms also have calluses on the bottoms.

The full toe compression stockings were OK walking, but when I sat down they would make the toe next to the big toe hurt. I believe that the very short elastic stocking foot was pulling length-wise to bend that toe, it's a little longer than the big toe (in my case). It only hurt when I sat, but not when walking. When I went to toeless stockings, at first I played some months without pains at the 5th Metatarsals after tennis.

I am most concerned that the added compression during tennis is aggravating the cartilage surfaces between the Cutoids & 5th Metatarals. There is also a tendon next to the 5th M. I need new shoes and inserts. I hope that the podiatrist has some experience with all these variables together, especially the compression stockings during tennis.

The compression stockings were $124 per pair, not covered by insurance. They were lower price because they are standard size. If I need custom compression stockings, they would be $293 per pair.

Did you find an insert that somehow helped reduce the force on the knob of the 5th M?

I'm 80 now.
 
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jimmy8

G.O.A.T.
Agree about the Spenco with high arch. I thought of cutting it down. I recently put a lower arch old Spenco in, but it is size 13.

My feet are D size 14s, but the protrusion of the 5th Metatarsal bony knob sticks out farther than normal on the side of my foot. The knob would take the force on the side of my foot. 5th Ms also have calluses on the bottoms.

The full toe compression stockings were OK walking, but when I sat down they would make the toe next to the big toe hurt. I believe that the very short elastic stocking foot was pulling length-wise to bend that toe, it's a little longer than the big toe (in my case). It only hurt when I sat, but not when walking. When I went to toeless stockings, at first I played some months without pains at the 5th Metatarsals after tennis.

I am most concerned that the added compression during tennis is aggravating the cartilage surfaces between the Cutoids & 5th Metatarals. There is also a tendon next to the 5th M. I need new shoes and inserts. I hope that the podiatrist has some experience with all these variables together, especially the compression stockings during tennis.

The compression stockings were $124 per pair, not covered by insurance. They were lower price because they are standard size. If I need custom compression stockings, they would be $293 per pair.

Did you find an insert that somehow helped reduce the force on the knob of the 5th M?

I'm 80 now.
I have extra wide feet, size 10 to 10.5. I'm 45 years old. I had a mass grow on the bottom of my right foot, on the ball of my foot, at the 5th metatarsal. I had the mass surgically removed. I have fat pad atrophy on the ball of my right foot at the 1st and 5th metatarsals.

I tried about 20-30 different insoles and about 20-30 different tennis shoes. I mostly wear New Balance 1006 extra wide 4e in 10 or 10.5. I also wear Adidas Barricade Classic extra wide 4e in 10.5, but these shoes are not made anymore. I use 2 insoles stacked on top of each other. I first insert Dr Scholls Float on Air. Then insert Airplus Plantar Fascia Orthotic insoles. The shoes i wear are tall enough to accommodate 2 insoles. I also lace my shoes all the way to the top, in other words i use every lace hole in the shoes. And i tighten the laces as tight as i can except the very last set of holes because tightening that one too tight hurts too much. I replace the insoles every 20 matches. I replace shoes every 40-60 matches. I have about 10 pairs of tennis shoes and I rotate them every match. I also wear Nike elite basketball socks for tennis because they are extra thick and provide good cushioning.

I can only play about once every 3 days because my feet hurt if I play more. I recently went to a foot doctor and he said fat pad transplant from my stomach to the ball of my foot would not help. He gave me Powerstep insoles to try in the office, but they didn't fit my foot. He suggested Aetrex insoles, I might try those.
 

Bud

Bionic Poster
I fractured mine about 6 months ago. It started hurting a bit, so i took some ibuprofen and continued playing. Five minutes later as I was running toward a short ball, I heard a loud crack and could then put no weight on the foot.

Took a couple weeks off, bought new shoes a size larger and used orthotics with more arch support.

I can still feel it occasionally after playing.

Before it happened, I'd never heard of this injury, which is pretty common for tennis players.

I use Cadence Orthotic Insoles.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I fractured mine about 6 months ago. It started hurting a bit, so i took some ibuprofen and continued playing. Five minutes later as I was running toward a short ball, I heard a loud crack and could then put no weight on the foot.

Took a couple weeks off, bought new shoes a size larger and used orthotics with more arch support.

I can still feel it occasionally after playing.

Before it happened, I'd never heard of this injury, which is pretty common for tennis players.

I use Cadence Orthotic Insoles.

A break on the end of the 5th Metatarsal is a common injury.
2530897-All-About-Fractures-of-the-Fifth-Metatarsal_1296x7293body.png


_____________________________________________________________________________________

I did not have a fracture.

Earlier, my feet gave some light pain after playing tennis at the 5th Metatarsals. But two weeks ago my feet hurt for the first time when I started tennis. I quit after 15 minutes. No tennis in last 2 weeks (and before that I was off a month for hip pain (Dr thought a muscle strain)).

I just went to a podiatrist about my metatarsal injuries right and left. The right foot has been sensitive even around the house. I palpitated it with my finger and some pain. Then palpitated it with the end of a Sharpie pen body and got a lot of localized sharp pain under and on the end of the 5th M. (Toward ankle). The Dr diagnosed the pain as located at the Peroneal Brevis tendon area. He found a corn at that location and did a procedure to freeze it and remove skin and the corn. In two weeks, I go back and they examine and may freeze again to remove more. (The foot has many possible injuries and the Dr could distinguish which one.)

I'm 80, and most of my adult life my shoe size was a 12. In the last 10 years, my feet became 14s. I thought my arch was not too bad by slipping my fingers under it. But the Dr watched me walk and said the important thing was my arch while walking. The arch flattened too much while walking. He said that was probably why the size of my feet increased.

The Dr put a tool that vibrated against the bottoms my feet and diagnosed neuropathy. In my case, I did not feel the vibration on both feet.

There are more complex issues with my feet than the corn on one side. Removing the corn will probably get me back to tennis. To be continued......

I'm providing all this detailed information because I wish I had known it earlier.
 
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Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
There are quite a few mechanical issues that can cause pain in that part of your foot and you can can nerve pain as well. Sometimes chronic perineal tendonitis can expose your feet to injury.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
I only got it once using GR 6 on hard courts. No frontal support apparently.
I am now using GR 8 clay and change the insoles(Dr Scholl's active) at least twice a year. Don't like Spenco.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Forgot to report.

I went to a Pediatrist.

The pain is from the Perineal Brevis tendon, bottom of the foot close to the end of the 5th Metatarsal. There was a callus on the skin there and a corn was causing the immediate pain. They froze it and I believe removed the corn. The pain stopped. I am returning for a possible second treatment and for discussion of what to do about some other foot problems, shoes, orthotics, neuropathy, etc. I think this is the first corn that I've had.

I thought that my arches were OK because I would stick my fingers under the arch and it appeared to arch. He watched me walk and said that my arches collapsed then and that my arches when not walking were not as important. My feet as an adult started as size 12 and in the last 10 years have become 14s. He said the arches were probably related.

The 5th Metatarsal bone is very close to the bottom of my foot. There is not much under the end of the bone. Calluses are under the end of the 5th M on both feet there.
 
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Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Forgot to report.

I went to a Pediatrist.

The pain is from the Perineal Brevis tendon, bottom of the foot close to the end of the 5th Metatarsal. There was a callus on the skin there and a corn was causing the immediate pain. They froze it and I believe removed the corn. The pain stopped. I am returning for a possible second treatment and for discussion of what to do about some other foot problems, shoes, orthotics, neuropathy, etc. I think this is the first corn that I've had.

I thought that my arches were OK because I would stick my fingers under the arch and it appeared to arch. He watched me walk and said that my arches collapsed then and that my arches when not walking were not as important. My feet as an adult started as size 12 and in the last 10 years have become 14s. He said the arches were probably related.

The 5th Metatarsal bone is very close to the bottom of my foot. There is not much under the end of the bone. Calluses are under the end of the 5th M on both feet there.
You already did report :)
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Thread on shoe fitting & shoe 'lasts' for a corn at the 5th Metatarsal, the bone end near the ankle.

The "last" of a shoe is a shape of wood or plastic that reflects the shape of the foot. A shoe maker may use a last to make a shoe.

I have prominent 5th Metatarsals with worse pain being caused at the right 5th Metatarsal, end nearest the ankle - by a corn. I am concerned about new shoes especially about how the curvature of the shoe "last" used to manufacture the shoe might be too curved for my straight feet. I never heard of a "last" before.


"FIT IMPORTANCE:

Once foot type has been established, assessing proper fit is the next critical element. Running shoes are made on a “last” which is a shape that dictates the dimensions of the heel, midfoot or “waist” of the shoe, ball girth and toe box among other key measurements.

Running shoe lasts are commonly made as straight, semi-curved and curved. Each of these last types aligns with a specific foot type: Straight/Over Pronation, Semi-Curved/Neutral and Curved/Supination. Each brand has their unique dimensions for their last’s assortment, which is why fit between brands can be quite different, even within styles within a brand. A clear understanding of the last type each shoe is made on is critical to the proper fit process. This only comes from experience working with many runners on our store floor.
"


My shoes are one possible cause. Did the shoe last bend my 5th M ? I have no idea what to look for in a shoe for this issue. Seeing a pediatrist. .....................

If you have learned anything about the following please post -
Curved feet
Straight feet
"lasts" for curved feet
"lasts" for straight feet
Fitting shoes to prevent corns
Shoe manufacturers that use lasts for straight feet
Shoe manufacturers that use lasts for curved feet.
Any information on the 5th Metatarsal (end near ankle) & shoes
For corns.

I found that there is a wooden shoe stretcher where a metal curved shape can be inserted to stretch spots in the shoe, like the 5th M. I intend to try this at the 5th Metatarsal, near my ankle.

Earlier thread.
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I bought a FootFitter shoe width stretcher and this is my first stretch on a New Balance Minimus shoe. See the bulge on the shoe made by the shoe width stretcher where the metal insert was. My corn is located on/under the 5th Metatarsal shown. The corn is in process of being removed by the pediatrist, next is third treatment.

Look at the metal insert on the shoe stretcher. To the right is the prominent sore bone end of my 5th Metatarsal with the corn. To the left, is the new bulge pressed into the NB shoe with some heat applied from a hair dryer. The shoe stretcher was carefully placed where my the bone was felt on the side of my shoe and then marked on the shoe surface. I did not insert the stretcher all the way in, but aligned the metal insert to my 5th M. Shoe strings tied. So far so good.......
8B201E6E24B14EAD9CDEF298039BBAED.jpg


I don't know how this works yet for my pain. Or whether the pediatrist will choose another correction. But it should relieve the shoes pressure on my corn area.

(Decades ago, my friend and I had a contest on the boardwalk to see who had the best looking feet. I lost.)
 
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Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Isn't Powerstep insole a rigid bottom with padding. I really want to keep the flexibility at the big joint that leads to my big toe. The Powerstep does not flex.

I have extra wide feet, size 10 to 10.5. I'm 45 years old. I had a mass grow on the bottom of my right foot, on the ball of my foot, at the 5th metatarsal. I had the mass surgically removed. I have fat pad atrophy on the ball of my right foot at the 1st and 5th metatarsals.

I tried about 20-30 different insoles and about 20-30 different tennis shoes. I mostly wear New Balance 1006 extra wide 4e in 10 or 10.5. I also wear Adidas Barricade Classic extra wide 4e in 10.5, but these shoes are not made anymore. I use 2 insoles stacked on top of each other. I first insert Dr Scholls Float on Air. Then insert Airplus Plantar Fascia Orthotic insoles. The shoes i wear are tall enough to accommodate 2 insoles. I also lace my shoes all the way to the top, in other words i use every lace hole in the shoes. And i tighten the laces as tight as i can except the very last set of holes because tightening that one too tight hurts too much. I replace the insoles every 20 matches. I replace shoes every 40-60 matches. I have about 10 pairs of tennis shoes and I rotate them every match. I also wear Nike elite basketball socks for tennis because they are extra thick and provide good cushioning.

I can only play about once every 3 days because my feet hurt if I play more. I recently went to a foot doctor and he said fat pad transplant from my stomach to the ball of my foot would not help. He gave me Powerstep insoles to try in the office, but they didn't fit my foot. He suggested Aetrex insoles, I might try those.
 

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
I have extra wide feet, size 10 to 10.5. I'm 45 years old. I had a mass grow on the bottom of my right foot, on the ball of my foot, at the 5th metatarsal. I had the mass surgically removed. I have fat pad atrophy on the ball of my right foot at the 1st and 5th metatarsals.

I tried about 20-30 different insoles and about 20-30 different tennis shoes. I mostly wear New Balance 1006 extra wide 4e in 10 or 10.5. I also wear Adidas Barricade Classic extra wide 4e in 10.5, but these shoes are not made anymore. I use 2 insoles stacked on top of each other. I first insert Dr Scholls Float on Air. Then insert Airplus Plantar Fascia Orthotic insoles. The shoes i wear are tall enough to accommodate 2 insoles. I also lace my shoes all the way to the top, in other words i use every lace hole in the shoes. And i tighten the laces as tight as i can except the very last set of holes because tightening that one too tight hurts too much. I replace the insoles every 20 matches. I replace shoes every 40-60 matches. I have about 10 pairs of tennis shoes and I rotate them every match. I also wear Nike elite basketball socks for tennis because they are extra thick and provide good cushioning.

I can only play about once every 3 days because my feet hurt if I play more. I recently went to a foot doctor and he said fat pad transplant from my stomach to the ball of my foot would not help. He gave me Powerstep insoles to try in the office, but they didn't fit my foot. He suggested Aetrex insoles, I might try those.

You have tried so many shoes.

Have you ever looked into the 'last' issue, or curvature of the foot shape from straight to curved? See my posts with picture of my foot, shoe and a shoe width stretcher. I posted a reference on the shoe 'last' this thread or the other.
 
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