Paradigm breakthrough on groundstrokes (Aim 6 ft. above the net)

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Just enough to get me in trouble, apparently! I mean, look at the "catch/hold /absorb" thread with collo: I lost track of how many times i was insulted. Now THAT was entertaining!
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Now THIS is entertainment!

latest
 
Why don't you just learn the "ATP forehand" which takes care of both pace and height over the net? Google "youtube atp wta forehand" . The ATP forehand is the best thing that's happened to me in tennis - without it I'll still be a pusher and a slicer.
 
atp2015 said:
Why don't you just learn the "ATP forehand" which takes care of both pace and height over the net? Google "youtube atp wta forehand" . The ATP forehand is the best thing that's happened to me in tennis - without it I'll still be a pusher and a slicer.
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Sigh. Here we go.
 
there is just not one forehand. to advance u have to learn them all, ill moonball, lob, heavy groundstrokes, whatever it takes. no shot is more important than the other. u have to respect each one and learn how to effectively execute it.
 
I've made progress on unit turn on the FH. I now REALLY deliberately REACH across my body, arm parallel to base line. Before still was pointing to net post at 45 degrees. Feet are still neutral, but shoulders are turned more now. Now I just need to stay low on low balls, and stand up, not look at Target. Eye on contact
 
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TimeToPlaySets said:
I've made progress on unit turn on the FH. I now REALLY deliberately REACH across my body, arm parallel to base line. Before still was pointing to bet post at 45 degrees. Feet are still neutral, hit shoulders are turned better now.
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So it's not "impossible" or "nearly impossible" as you initially wrote. Perhaps the same concept might apply to future changes.
 
nytennisaddict said:
from "pusher" with bunty push strokes to moonballer that hits topspin with slower full strokes, is a huge step in the right direction.

later on they gain confidence to trust the topspin and their stroke, and start hitting out
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OP said 'mildly spinning shot', I'm not sure how much that qualifies as legit topspin.
 
bitcoinoperated said:
OP said 'mildly spinning shot', I'm not sure how much that qualifies as legit topspin.
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honestly, for beginners... just getting the right spin direction can be a huge leap forward (vertical/closed face, low to high, etc..)... no matter how little topspin.
for example, one guy i taught, insisted he was hitting topspin (he was hitting flat to underspin)... had to use a multi color ball to prove it.
 
nytennisaddict said:
honestly, for beginners... just getting the right spin direction can be a huge leap forward (vertical/closed face, low to high, etc..)... no matter how little topspin.
for example, one guy i taught, insisted he was hitting topspin (he was hitting flat to underspin)... had to use a multi color ball to prove it.
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Damn. Kinda makes me worried about the actual ability of the people that post in this sub-section though, this guy has been here 5 years and has 1,680 posts.
 
I suspect NYTAddict is a 4.5 level player, better than a lot of us.
I'm a lowest possible 4.0, mainly due to age and lack of running skills. I have entered 13 A/Open tournaments, 39 year's ago.
Shroud played on USTA 4.0 teams in mixed and mens.
 
bitcoinoperated said:
Damn. Kinda makes me worried about the actual ability of the people that post in this sub-section though, this guy has been here 5 years and has 1,680 posts.
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the OP is a self rated 3.5
and while his posts/threads are controversial...
he is one of the most hardcore persistent folks i've met lately, about getting better at tennis... (taking lessons, solo practice, etc...)
he's definitely putting in the work. i hope he sticks with it :)
 
the OP is a self rated 3.5
and while his posts/threads are controversial...
he is one of the most hardcore persistent folks i've met lately, about getting better at tennis... (taking lessons, solo practice, etc...)
he's definitely putting in the work. i hope he sticks with it :)
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Hardcore? The guy is too lazy to split step. Next year he won't be here. The tennis world is littered with people who think they deserve instant progress and go nowhere..
 
GuyClinch said:
Hardcore? The guy is too lazy to split step. Next year he won't be here. The tennis world is littered with people who think they deserve instant progress and go nowhere..
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yeah, i see where you're coming from... and i know that thread was controversial... but i think the issue was equally about not understanding when/why to split step.
when i first started split stepping, it "messed up my game" in the beginning,... threw off my timing, etc...
partly because i was splitting at the wrong time... and partly because I was playing 3.0 & 3.5s, so i didn't need to split (ie. for a floating sitter that bounced into waist height)... so it was extraneous movement that only hurt my timing...
fast forward to now, where the folks i play are hitting bigger, more unpredictable spin, changing directions, droppers, etc... it's no question i'd be a beat behind if i didn't split step.
also, imo the split step, to me, is explained better as a "gravity step"... (a similar principle used here: https://posemethod.com/running/ - which formed the foundation for how i ran, and trained for the nyc marathon)
 
Well according to his recent thread, he's now a committed hardcore moonballer. So he's well on his way.
 
5263 said:
I agree, but I'm commenting on the direction this should go. He may get that, but his post didn't seem to realize it. I also base this on what I see working with players when they hit higher over the net. They do exactly what he described, slow the swing and create less topspin, which in turn, nullifies the whole intent of what they are looking to accomplish.
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maybe with some more experience he will see how to hit that shot while keeping the rHS up
 
GuyClinch said:
Hardcore? The guy is too lazy to split step. Next year he won't be here. The tennis world is littered with people who think they deserve instant progress and go nowhere..
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No, "hard core" as in "dedicated to getting better", to the point where he's serving buckets of balls and posting play results. I think he'll be here next year.

He wasn't too lazy to split step: he has problems with late timing and came to the erroneous [IMO] conclusion that therefore, he might be better off not splitting.

I'm with you that I think his thought process, expectations, and attitude impede his progress rather than help it and I've pointed this out but he didn't reply. [My comment was along the lines of "You need to allow time, repetition, and a positive outlook work their magic."]
 
Probably beat half the guys on here hitting those high ones. He seems young and fit. So look out old farts.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
All the 65+ crowd I play with would easily breadstick anyone hitting like that.
We came from a generation of S/V play, not baseline retreat fetch style tennis, so we can move forwards and volley to a corner every time.
Plus, at least 4 of the 65+ crowd in our group of 4.0's were A level player's back 30 year's ago...that's 5.5+ in modern ranking systems.
Moonballs only work well against baseline player's, guys who can't volley or overhead well.
 
meltphace 6 said:
Your hitting partner has not created a single defensive situation for you. You are always in neutral and offensive situations.
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Look at 2:14 to 2:30
He is driving me back with high deep topspin shots.
This is what I call defensive.
I am not trying to put those away for winners like a typical spazz 3.5
So, I return them in kind, and wait for a short ball.

Also
:22
:57
1:06
 
LeeD said:
Moonballs only work well against baseline player's, guys who can't volley or overhead well.
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Hitting a moonball beats the crap out of blasting it over the fence.
Not only does this reduce my UE, it will even create winners against spazz 3.5 who try to hit winners from behind the baseline.

Only works against baseline players who can't volley or overhead? You mean basically every 3.5 out there.
If I can beat 3.5, that puts me at 4.0. What's that the top 2% of all players on the planet?
I'll take it.

The point of this shot is to wait for your kill shot.
A ball behind the baseline, over your shoulders is not the one.
 
LeeD said:
All the 65+ crowd I play with would easily breadstick anyone hitting like that.
We came from a generation of S/V play, not baseline retreat fetch style tennis, so we can move forwards and volley to a corner every time.
Plus, at least 4 of the 65+ crowd in our group of 4.0's were A level player's back 30 year's ago...that's 5.5+ in modern ranking systems.
Moonballs only work well against baseline player's, guys who can't volley or overhead well.
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Sure.... 65 and over? Lol. With the knee braces and all? I'm sure a lot of older players are decent. But a moon balling plus dinking fast young guy is not going to lose if he decided to win. And not make silly errors.

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I know some older guys like 50 who can play. The think they can beat the juniors I coach. They think... oh the kid will miss before me. They over hit. Will double fault. Etc... lol. A trained junior will not miss and or double fault against a 4.0 adult male rec players. They will wipe the floor with them. The problem with older players is they don't realize how freaking slow they actually are. Because they play against other old and slow players.

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TimeToPlaySets said:
Look at 2:14 to 2:30
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That's nice, neutral cooperative hitting. You're in balance (you don't even have to split step! Ok, that's another thread), your hitting partner doesn't take time away from you, he doesn't create plenty of distance between you and the ball and you don't even have to hit balls on the rise (except for one).

The defensive situation is in your head only.

Your coach must be a nice, comfort zoney guy.

But seriously: if these are your defensive situations... MOAR THREADS!!!!11111!111
 
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Remember, while they WERE 5.5+, they are now 4.0's.
Ain't no way a 3.5 can moonball me and get 3 games a set. For sure, a 5.0- 7.0 can moonball me enough to bagel me, but they're hitting heavy topspin and slice lobs, and are a bit quicker than 3.5 level player's.
About once a month, I head over to the North courts and play against the 3.5 crowd. Except for maybe 2 other 4.0's, I destroy them no matter what game they're trying, usually 8 points won out of 10, and the two they get is because I missed going for too much. And I can't run.
 
LeeD said:
Remember, while they WERE 5.5+, they are now 4.0's.
Ain't no way a 3.5 can moonball me and get 3 games a set. For sure, a 5.0- 7.0 can moonball me enough to bagel me, but they're hitting heavy topspin and slice lobs, and are a bit quicker than 3.5 level player's.
About once a month, I head over to the North courts and play against the 3.5 crowd. Except for maybe 2 other 4.0's, I destroy them no matter what game they're trying, usually 8 points won out of 10, and the two they get is because I missed going for too much. And I can't run.
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Well 5.5 plus is rare. So that doesn't count. And you were not 5.5 plus so. ?

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You are correct, I was a B player, or 4.5 back in the '70's.
Now I"m par with those old folkes, the guys I used to watch from the grandstands behind court's 1-3, and 6-8 at Golden Gate Park. They almost always ask me to play, or if they can join. That mean's they're 4.0 now, as I am. But 4.0 who can volley and overhead, half volley and handle almost any ball short of repeated 5.0+ shots..
Oh, I mentioned I can't run. Can't run as in a spider drill time of 18-19 seconds. Before I hurt my ankle, in 2007, I'd bet money I could approach high 15's, as I was the quickest player in the 4.0 range, having beaten 8 of the 12 guys on Albert Park (Marin County) State 4.0 league team without a loss.
 
LeeD....TTPS never proclaimed he used to be great. We get it, that you used to be/probably are a much better player than most of the 3.5 crowd will ever be. TTPS is not comparing himself to you. From where TTPS was a few months ago, I see a dramatic improvement in his form. He seems less stiff, is consistently getting the ball in, and has a plan than just hit mindlessly. He is also occasionally mixing up the faster shot too. He is on the right track for what his goals are.
 
LeeD....TTPS never proclaimed he used to be great. We get it, that you used to be/probably are a much better player than most of the 3.5 crowd will ever be. TTPS is not comparing himself to you. From where TTPS was a few months ago, I see a dramatic improvement in his form. He seems less stiff, is consistently getting the ball in, and has a plan than just hit mindlessly. He is also occasionally mixing up the faster shot too. He is on the right track for what his goals are.
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Whatever dude. Point is you aren't going to get moonballs to lob back against normal players - or LeeD's buddies. So that shot is less effective.. I mean I get it - I love looping it into the backhand as well. But its not a solution if you aren't dealing with easy balls.

Anyway that's how some 3.0s and 3.5s hit - they don't just smash the ball into the fence everytime or whatever this guy used to imagine.. LMAO.
 
TimeToPlaySets said:
Look at 2:14 to 2:30
He is driving me back with high deep topspin shots.
This is what I call defensive.
I am not trying to put those away for winners like a typical spazz 3.5
So, I return them in kind, and wait for a short ball.

Also
:22
:57
1:06
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It's semantics: what you're calling defensive is what most of us would call neutral.

Defensive would be you outstretched and sprinting to just get your racquet on the ball.
Neutral is being in a comfortable position with plenty of time.

For example, you chose to fall back. You could have taken it on the rise. But in either case, you were not terribly rushed.

Getting past the label that is used to describe the situation, you're making smart court choices. I still disagree that the typical 3.5 ["spazz" or otherwise] will try to hit winners off of everything but to each his own.
 
He certainly won't get better if he's working on his moonballs. He's already 3.5 in my book, and once he starts to low lob better player's, he won't win any points at all. And he certainly won't get better, practicing junior girl's 8's and 10's shots.
 
GuyClinch said:
Whatever dude. Point is you aren't going to get moonballs to lob back against normal players - or LeeD's buddies. So that shot is less effective.. I mean I get it - I love looping it into the backhand as well. But its not a solution if you aren't dealing with easy balls.

Anyway that's how some 3.0s and 3.5s hit - they don't just smash the ball into the fence everytime or whatever this guy used to imagine.. LMAO.
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I agree with @mcs1970 - whoever the hypothetical opponent, TTPS is making progress over where he was back in November. I still don't agree with his sweeping generalizations or his snide criticism of entire classes of players but that's immaterial to improvement for him, I suppose.
 
LeeD said:
He certainly won't get better if he's working on his moonballs. He's already 3.5 in my book, and once he starts to low lob better player's, he won't win any points at all. And he certainly won't get better, practicing junior girl's 8's and 10's shots.
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Which is why joining USTA would be so beneficial, to expose him to higher-level competition. But, he's determined not to take that path so I'm not sure where the competition will come from [other than his coach].
 
Why do you think I am moonballing every shot?
Call it neutral or defensive, it's still not offensive when a shot is deep and high.
What is offensive? A shot that is shallow and waist high. That is the shot I attack.

These high deep shots? THOSE will just loft them back and make him hit another point.
This will be very effective at the 3.5 and 4.0 level, where UE's rule the roost.
None of these guys are going to be jamming my moonball away for winners.

I see this as a very useful shot for a 3.5 to play. You may not.
I will update this thread in the future with typical 3.5 to 4.5 responses to this shot.
That will settle it.
 
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Moonballs don't work at 4.0, because everyone just steps in and volleys to a corner you're not standing in.
You mentioned hitting 6' higher than a 3' high net, which is NINE feet off the ground.
Standard groundie for 4.0 would be net clearance of 3', which is 6' off the ground and landing mid NML depths.
 
LeeD said:
Moonballs don't work at 4.0, because everyone just steps in and volleys to a corner you're not standing in.
You mentioned hitting 6' higher than a 3' high net, which is NINE feet off the ground.
Standard groundie for 4.0 would be net clearance of 3', which is 6' off the ground and landing mid NML depths.
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Not every 4.0 steps in and volleys; I've watched many a 4.0 match where I was screaming [internally]: "Get in to the net! Volley that sucker!" To no avail as many cannot be uprooted from the BL.

I'd say moonballs would work well at 3.5, not as well at 4.0, and poorly at 4.5. TTPS will find out soon enough as he expands his circle.
 
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